And that starts with Israel. They are the ones stealing the land.
no brainer...
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
And just as Israel should begin there, Palestine needs to stop their terror groups. Two way street here.
Hamas has basically said if Israel pulls out of the West bank it's a done deal. But you know Israel ....they want their land first and foremost....no mater what it involves.
To the point they are willing to build hundreds of armored checkpoints and huge apartheid walls, and deploy their military left right and center in order to attain this goal of ongoing state of land procurement from the Palestinians.
It's all about land, and having a place to live, and what is fair.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Let me ask you a simple question. Let's say you are in impartial mediator in a conflict (any problem). What would your solution be if both parties were waiting for the other half to make the first step to a solution? Please put aside what you think is right or wrong in this issue. It's a stand-still. What is your solution to that connundrum?
Would it not be to tell both sides they need to facilitate steps to meet the other in the middle inorder to create the proper solution? Yet you sit here and claim it's ok for one side to blame the other cause they don't make the first move. Both sides say this in fact. This is obviously flawed rational and doesn't fix the problem or enable the process to a solution. All it does is entrench both sides and further the problem.
Hamas has basically said if Israel pulls out of the West bank it's a done deal. But you know Israel ....they want their land first and foremost....no mater what it involves.
To the point they are willing to build hundreds of armored checkpoints and huge apartheid walls, and deploy their military left right and center in order to attain this goal of ongoing state of land procurement from the Palestinians.
It's all about land, and having a place to live, and what is fair.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Let me ask you a simple question. Let's say you are in impartial mediator in a conflict (any problem). What would your solution be if both parties were waiting for the other half to make the first step to a solution? Please put aside what you think is right or wrong in this issue. It's a stand-still. What is your solution to that connundrum?
You said yourself you can't compare "any problem" to this though; it's a separate case entirely. Right?
You are a mediator. You have two parties at a stallmate. Each side is waiting for the other half to make the first move to a sollution. With both sides not taking the first step, the conflict continues. How do you resolve this issue?
You said yourself you can't compare "any problem" to this though; it's a separate case entirely. Right?
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You are a mediator. You have two parties at a stallmate. Each side is waiting for the other half to make the first move to a sollution. With both sides not taking the first step, the conflict continues. How do you resolve this issue?
I need more information about this scenario. You can't get some jackass off the street who has no idea what's going on in Israel/Palestine other than them being at a "stallmate" (when in reality Israel is killing off the Palestinians and stealing their land), and that there needs to be a solution. You need to understand what's actually been going on the past 80 years. Otherwise, it's an insult to the 1 million Palestinian refugees if you ignore what they've been through. It's an insult to the destruction of those 418 villages in 1948. It's an insult to the entire Palestinian people, and you know what, to the Israeli civilians who have been killed as well.
This situation needs to be understood completely. If some guy comes in to try to "resolve" the issue without knowing one force is occupying the other, etc, then nothing will be resolved.
My scenario is based upon the generic principles of mediation, not specifically this conflict. So please answer the question without mentioning the Israel/Palestine conflict. For example, imagine it's two ordinary people arguing over something (anything at all) in court. You're the mediator and must come up with a solution. How do you do that when both parties keep saying the other half must make the first step and concessions inorder for the solution process to begin?
I need more information about this scenario. You can't get some jackass off the street who has no idea what's going on in Israel/Palestine other than them being at a "stallmate" (when in reality Israel is killing off the Palestinians and stealing their land), and that there needs to be a solution. You need to understand what's actually been going on the past 80 years. Otherwise, it's an insult to the 1 million Palestinian refugees if you ignore what they've been through. It's an insult to the destruction of those 418 villages in 1948. It's an insult to the entire Palestinian people, and you know what, to the Israeli civilians who have been killed as well.
This situation needs to be understood completely. If some guy comes in to try to "resolve" the issue without knowing one force is occupying the other, etc, then nothing will be resolved.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
My scenario is based upon the generic principles of mediation, not specifically this conflict. So please answer the question without mentioning the Israel/Palestine conflict. For example, imagine it's two ordinary people arguing over something (anything at all) in court. You're the mediator and must come up with a solution. How do you do that when both parties keep saying the other half must make the first step and concessions inorder for the solution process to begin?
So what you're saying is the basic principles of mediation aren't necessary when you have create a massive peace process between two groups who have been taught to hate one another? That's not only an ignorant comment, it spearheads your inability to put aside your blames and biases inorder to create peace. It's counter-productive and probably one of the main reasons we still see this conflict in the shape it is now and going forward. Sad stuff.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
So what you're saying is the basic principles of mediation aren't necessary when you have create a massive peace process between two groups who have been taught to hate one another? That's not only an ignorant comment, it spearheads your inability to put aside your blames and biases inorder to create peace. It's counter-productive and probably one of the main reasons we still see this conflict in the shape it is now and going forward. Sad stuff.
The basic principles of mediation? You just compared an argument in a courtroom to not just any conflict, but an illegal occupation, and an oppression.
Tell me this, in an argument in a courtroom do you have 1 million people seeking refuge in other countries because they were either kicked out or ran away from their HOMES? Do you have thousands upon thousands of massacres and deaths? Do you have people living in an occupation, barely having the necessary items to LIVE?
That's not only an ignorant comment, it spearheads your inability to put aside your blames and biases inorder to create peace. It's counter-productive and probably one of the main reasons we still see this conflict in the shape it is now and going forward.
How is it ignorant? How can you expect the Palestinians to put aside their "blames and biases"? They've been tormented for 60 years. 1,000,000 of them were kicked out or ran away from their country. You seem to downplay all of this, like they can all simply forget about it. THe only thing counter-productive is that the Israelis keep stealing land from the Palestinians. If that would stop, violence would stop.
Don't compare this to the "basic principles of mediation". This is an entirely different scenario. Sadly, one you never seem to comprehend.
When you expect others to make specific concessions first and tell yourself you don't, yet expect this to be the foundation of a resolution, that simply isn't realistic. It doesn't matter what the conflict is or who is involved. Resolution will only occur when BOTH PARTIES make concessions to make a peace, not one making demands while the other half waits for them to be followed through. This is how both parties act, and why there is no solution currently.
I'm done debating this. We've each stated our points and are repeating ourselves now. I understand yours, but simply whole-heartedly disgree.
The basic principles of mediation? You just compared an argument in a courtroom to not just any conflict, but an illegal occupation, and an oppression.
Tell me this, in an argument in a courtroom do you have 1 million people seeking refuge in other countries because they were either kicked out or ran away from their HOMES? Do you have thousands upon thousands of massacres and deaths? Do you have people living in an occupation, barely having the necessary items to LIVE?
How is it ignorant? How can you expect the Palestinians to put aside their "blames and biases"? They've been tormented for 60 years. 1,000,000 of them were kicked out or ran away from their country. You seem to downplay all of this, like they can all simply forget about it. THe only thing counter-productive is that the Israelis keep stealing land from the Palestinians. If that would stop, violence would stop.
Don't compare this to the "basic principles of mediation". This is an entirely different scenario. Sadly, one you never seem to comprehend.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Let me ask you a simple question. Let's say you are in impartial mediator in a conflict (any problem). What would your solution be if both parties were waiting for the other half to make the first step to a solution? Please put aside what you think is right or wrong in this issue. It's a stand-still. What is your solution to that connundrum?
Would it not be to tell both sides they need to facilitate steps to meet the other in the middle inorder to create the proper solution? Yet you sit here and claim it's ok for one side to blame the other cause they don't make the first move. Both sides say this in fact. This is obviously flawed rational and doesn't fix the problem or enable the process to a solution. All it does is entrench both sides and further the problem.
Whoever has the ultimate upper hand has to bend. That would entail the 4th largest military super power in the world to begin acting as though it deserves the respect it demands by not violently wrenching land from dirt poor farmers that doesn't belong to them, and then building racist Jewish only colonies to further add spite and resentment to the mix.
Oh, and abolishing ALL the checkpoints that don't cross through Israeli areas, so as not to regularly harass Palestinians just trying to walk freely without vicious persecution upon their own soil.
Two really obvious problems that fuel the retaliation from Palestinians.
Isreal attacks, Palestine defends. It's not the other way around. One side is a foreign occupier. Israel is incapable of using defense as their excuse. There is no such reality in an occupation if you are the one occupying.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
In your opinion, "whoever has the upper hand has to bend". In reality, as we saw in the Oslo accords, BOTH PARTIES facilitated peace and it was working, yet you choose to ignore it because you'd prefer to pass blame and bias into the arguement rather than actually discuss a realistic peace plan.
Whoever has the ultimate upper hand has to bend. That would entail the 4th largest military super power in the world to begin acting as though it deserves the respect it demands by not violently wrenching land from dirt poor farmers that doesn't belong to them, and then building racist Jewish only colonies to further add spite and resentment to the mix.
Oh, and abolishing ALL the checkpoints that don't cross through Israeli areas, so as not to regularly harass Palestinians just trying to walk freely without vicious persecution upon their own soil.
Two really obvious problems that fuel the retaliation from Palestinians.
Isreal attacks, Palestine defends. It's not the other way around. One side is a foreign occupier. Israel is incapable of using defense as their excuse. There is no such reality in an occupation if you are the one occupying.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
In your opinion, "whoever has the upper hand has to bend". In reality, as we saw in the Oslo accords, BOTH PARTIES facilitated peace and it was working, yet you choose to ignore it because you'd prefer to pass blame and bias into the arguement rather than actually discuss a realistic peace plan.
Not really. Israel knew the Oslo Accords wouldn't work out since they offered some shitty negotiations.
In your opinion, "whoever has the upper hand has to bend". In reality, as we saw in the Oslo accords, BOTH PARTIES facilitated peace and it was working, yet you choose to ignore it because you'd prefer to pass blame and bias into the arguement rather than actually discuss a realistic peace plan.
Which brings us back to stop stealing land...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Brave man. I hope he didn't break a sweat pulling the trigger against that vicious blood thirsty terrorist.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
No sense in continually repeating yourself or me too for that matter. As in this case, I will stop posting to end the conflict. Then you won't respond to my post and it will create a silence. See how that works? Resolution!
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
No sense in continually repeating yourself or me too for that matter. As in this case, I will stop posting to end the conflict. Then you won't respond to my post and it will create a silence. See how that works? Resolution!
resolution.... of which you have provided none but criticized much.
It's not a complicated situation. Sorry to see it is for you.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Ending communication when the answers get tough is the solution apparently.
hehe
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Escalation is not the answer to any problem - only makes it worse in the long run, especially one involving violence and innocents dying (no matter what side you're on).
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Escalation is not the answer to any problem - only makes it worse in the long run, especially one involving violence and innocents dying (no matter what side you're on).
huh?
Who is promoting violence escalation?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
If people are serious about creating a peace, they would veer away from the problems and issues which lead to violcence as a result... ie your "resolution" to the problem.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
If people are serious about creating a peace, they would veer away from the problems and issues which lead to violcence as a result... ie your "resolution" to the problem.
if the palestinians stopped all suicide bombings - do you think the israelis would stop building houses on occupied lands?, take down dehumanizing check points?, generally start treating palestinians as humans?
Brave man. I hope he didn't break a sweat pulling the trigger against that vicious blood thirsty terrorist.
Yep, it's terrible...thankfully a rubber bullet at the foot, but nonetheless, an idiotic thing to do and can only be done if you don;t see the individual as a human being.
Set him free, much like that "freddom fighter" that killed the father and his 4 year old daughter that was celebrated when returning home.
if the palestinians stopped all suicide bombings - do you think the israelis would stop building houses on occupied lands?, take down dehumanizing check points?, generally start treating palestinians as humans?
Nope, probably not...but without the terrorist attacks against innocent civilians, international pressure (even from the US ) would increase and it would be stopped.
Nope, probably not...but without the terrorist attacks against innocent civilians, international pressure (even from the US ) would increase and it would be stopped.
Right, because it worked the first 40 years before "terrorist" attacks.
And as if international pressure isn't strong enough. Israel is currently in violation of 60 UN resolutions, and the Geneva Convention.
If you recall during the Oslo accords, both sides made a serious effort to halt all the main things that had slowed or stopped peace talks previously. During that time, talks ensued about real and specific issues, like a two state settlement but eventually broke down once the topic of shared and open capital was discussed. But quite frankly, they were like 3/4ths of the way to having a deal in place in which both sides could acknowledge and live peacefully with. So with that stated, I think if both parties were to step up to the plate, a settlement could be worked out, but if neither party is ready to step up, than they're doomed to continue in this conflict. And when I say "step up", I don't simply mean by one party telling the other half what their demands are. That is not significant. Enacting and enabling ways to get a peace process in motion is.... something both sides haven't done.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Set him free, much like that "freddom fighter" that killed the father and his 4 year old daughter that was celebrated when returning home.
It is sad that the little girl died. It reminds me of a 13 year old Palestinian girl who was shot dead by an Israeli soldier. Too bad nothing happened to him.
In fact, it also reminds me of 1046 other Palestinian children who have been killed by the Israelis, and the ZERO Israeli soldiers who were punished for it.
Comments
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Hamas has basically said if Israel pulls out of the West bank it's a done deal. But you know Israel ....they want their land first and foremost....no mater what it involves.
To the point they are willing to build hundreds of armored checkpoints and huge apartheid walls, and deploy their military left right and center in order to attain this goal of ongoing state of land procurement from the Palestinians.
It's all about land, and having a place to live, and what is fair.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Would it not be to tell both sides they need to facilitate steps to meet the other in the middle inorder to create the proper solution? Yet you sit here and claim it's ok for one side to blame the other cause they don't make the first move. Both sides say this in fact. This is obviously flawed rational and doesn't fix the problem or enable the process to a solution. All it does is entrench both sides and further the problem.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
You are a mediator. You have two parties at a stallmate. Each side is waiting for the other half to make the first move to a sollution. With both sides not taking the first step, the conflict continues. How do you resolve this issue?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
This situation needs to be understood completely. If some guy comes in to try to "resolve" the issue without knowing one force is occupying the other, etc, then nothing will be resolved.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
In a court room, you quiet both people up.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Tell me this, in an argument in a courtroom do you have 1 million people seeking refuge in other countries because they were either kicked out or ran away from their HOMES? Do you have thousands upon thousands of massacres and deaths? Do you have people living in an occupation, barely having the necessary items to LIVE?
Also, I'm really sick of the whole "taught to hate one another" line. The Palestinians aren't TAUGHT to hate the Israeli army. They experience the torture first hand. Read this: http://annies-letters.blogspot.com/2008/07/palestinian-bar-mitzvah-by-bassam.html if you want to know what I mean.
How is it ignorant? How can you expect the Palestinians to put aside their "blames and biases"? They've been tormented for 60 years. 1,000,000 of them were kicked out or ran away from their country. You seem to downplay all of this, like they can all simply forget about it. THe only thing counter-productive is that the Israelis keep stealing land from the Palestinians. If that would stop, violence would stop.
Don't compare this to the "basic principles of mediation". This is an entirely different scenario. Sadly, one you never seem to comprehend.
not quite like that - but feel free to dissect it how you see fit ...
I'm done debating this. We've each stated our points and are repeating ourselves now. I understand yours, but simply whole-heartedly disgree.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Whoever has the ultimate upper hand has to bend. That would entail the 4th largest military super power in the world to begin acting as though it deserves the respect it demands by not violently wrenching land from dirt poor farmers that doesn't belong to them, and then building racist Jewish only colonies to further add spite and resentment to the mix.
Oh, and abolishing ALL the checkpoints that don't cross through Israeli areas, so as not to regularly harass Palestinians just trying to walk freely without vicious persecution upon their own soil.
Two really obvious problems that fuel the retaliation from Palestinians.
Isreal attacks, Palestine defends. It's not the other way around. One side is a foreign occupier. Israel is incapable of using defense as their excuse. There is no such reality in an occupation if you are the one occupying.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
And he's freed...
Which brings us back to stop stealing land...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Brave man. I hope he didn't break a sweat pulling the trigger against that vicious blood thirsty terrorist.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
resolution.... of which you have provided none but criticized much.
It's not a complicated situation. Sorry to see it is for you.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
hehe
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
huh?
Who is promoting violence escalation?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
if the palestinians stopped all suicide bombings - do you think the israelis would stop building houses on occupied lands?, take down dehumanizing check points?, generally start treating palestinians as humans?
Yep, it's terrible...thankfully a rubber bullet at the foot, but nonetheless, an idiotic thing to do and can only be done if you don;t see the individual as a human being.
Set him free, much like that "freddom fighter" that killed the father and his 4 year old daughter that was celebrated when returning home.
Nope, probably not...but without the terrorist attacks against innocent civilians, international pressure (even from the US
And as if international pressure isn't strong enough. Israel is currently in violation of 60 UN resolutions, and the Geneva Convention.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
In fact, it also reminds me of 1046 other Palestinian children who have been killed by the Israelis, and the ZERO Israeli soldiers who were punished for it.
:rolleyes: