1000's of leftists protest Israel defending itself..

Pacomc79

Milhouse VanHouten wrote:

What would happen if an Israeli rocket strike resulted in the death of an American in Beirut?

There would be one dead American in Beiruit.

It's dangerous to go anywhere, certainly that region of the world. The Americans who went there accepted the risk, that something however ludicrous would happen. I view it the same way as an American riding on a bus being killed by a suicide bomber in Tel Aviv. Yeah, it sucks but you didn't have to be there. There are not a lot of easy answers to that kind of deep rooted hate and violence. Negociations work for about a month or a year or 5 but in the end they all want peace through aniliation (sp). I'm not down with that, and I definately do not want the US getting physically involved in a pointless conflict simply because a few people chose to go visit the region.

thankyougrandma

Pacomc79 wrote:

There would be one dead American in Beiruit.

It's dangerous to go anywhere, certainly that region of the world. The Americans who went there accepted the risk, that something however ludicrous would happen. I view it the same way as an American riding on a bus being killed by a suicide bomber in Tel Aviv. Yeah, it sucks but you didn't have to be there. There are not a lot of easy answers to that kind of deep rooted hate and violence. Negociations work for about a month or a year or 5 but in the end they all want peace through aniliation (sp). I'm not down with that, and I definately do not want the US getting physically involved in a pointless conflict simply because a few people chose to go visit the region.

Lebanon was NOT dangerous before Isreal started bombing their facilities, reason why there's thousands of our countries citizens stuck in the middle of these attacks, most of them were on vacation or there for business.... just saying...

Milhouse VanHouten

Pacomc79 wrote:

There would be one dead American in Beiruit.

It's dangerous to go anywhere, certainly that region of the world. The Americans who went there accepted the risk, that something however ludicrous would happen. I view it the same way as an American riding on a bus being killed by a suicide bomber in Tel Aviv. Yeah, it sucks but you didn't have to be there. There are not a lot of easy answers to that kind of deep rooted hate and violence. Negociations work for about a month or a year or 5 but in the end they all want peace through aniliation (sp). I'm not down with that, and I definately do not want the US getting physically involved in a pointless conflict simply because a few people chose to go visit the region.

I agree, Americans choosing to travel to Gaza or other troubled areas in the Middle East always seemed odd to me. I don't know how the president would react to an Israeli attack resulting in an American death, though. It would definitely complicate things for him. He's been trying to stay on the fence as much as he can in regards to his public remarks.

Byrnzie

Milhouse VanHouten wrote:

He's [Bush] been trying to stay on the fence as much as he can in regards to his public remarks.

Are you serious? Bush has been trying to stay on the fence? Really? I'm not having a go at you here, but please can you give me one example of when Bush has been critical of Israel, or has simply demanded that Israel cease attacking either the Palestinians, or the Lebanese? Not just now, during this present situation, but ever.

Milhouse VanHouten

Byrnzie wrote:

Are you serious? Bush has been trying to stay on the fence? Really? I'm not having a go at you here, but please can you give me one example of when Bush has been critical of Israel, or has simply demanded that Israel cease attacking either the Palestinians, or the Lebanese? Not just now, during this present situation, but ever.

He's been much less "cowboy" on this than he was in regards to other Middle Eastern situations. Bush calling for Israeli "restraint" is actually as close to criticism as he's likely to get.

Pacomc79

Milhouse VanHouten wrote:

He's been much less "cowboy" on this than he was in regards to other Middle Eastern situations. Bush calling for Israeli "restraint" is actually as close to criticism as he's likely to get.

Probably because Bush himself has seldomly excercised "restraint"

Milhouse VanHouten

Pacomc79 wrote:

Probably because Bush himself has seldomly excercised "restraint"

I like how he'll begin using a word like "restraint" and then explain to people what it means. He says it like he just learned it, and he explains it to the press corps as if he thinks he's teaching them a new word.

"What we need in this situation is restraint, see, 'cuz restraint will lead to a better climate for diplomacy. It's the act of restraining one's self that will lead to a more diplomatic situation. Heh, heh, heh."

rebornFixer

I actually understand why you're pissed, the left is notorious for making Israel out to be the only villian here and it is extremely annoying. But you're not helping the case for fair and balanced commentary, dude.

rebornFixer

Pacomc79 wrote:

yeah, I don't get the bombing of Beiruit because of hezbollah rockets in the south either. I completly understand defending the northern border and snuffing out the continued northern bombardment of Israel from hizbollah who will not be satisfied until they kill every jew in Israel I think. I get that many civilians who die are simply used by these guys as shields. But dropping leaflets that say...we're gonna bomb the shit out of this city, get the hell out, for people in the north who may be just trying to live and work and get along is absolutely fucking ridiculous. That's just going to piss off the people of Lebanon, not do anything to stop rockets coming into Hefia. The idea that either side is without guilt is null and void.

As usual, somewhere near the middle.

Well said, saves me having to type out my take.

Byrnzie

Here's an another article by a "..leftist protesting Israel defending itself". It is written by a Jewish Rabbi and a lot of you may find what he has to say about the Israeli government surprising:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=10585

Nakedeye66

Fando ... I love your posts.

And if you look to ilicit reactions, you do a darn good job. Now from your tone (on another thread - now closed) I imagine Uncle Ted isn't someone I'd agree with. Yet I'm sort of on his side fro the get go since I bet on a horse last weekend named Uncle Ted that ran a glorious race!

Nakedeye66

Byrnzie wrote:

Here's an another article by a "..leftist protesting Israel defending itself". It is written by a Jewish Rabbi and a lot of you may find what he has to say about the Israeli government surprising:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=10585

Byrnzie, please do not use Michael Lerner as a representative of rabbis or Jews. His political agenda is decidedly anti-Israel. Mr. Lerner is about as representative of Jewish clergy as Pat Robertson is of Christian clergy.

ilana

Byrnzie wrote:

I'm sure there are also plenty of Israeli's who are also protesting the crimes of their government and military. For example, the Israeli government is currently in breach of over 60 U.N resolutions.

Here's an example: An essay on the conflict by a Rabbi:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=10585

fact
un resolutions under chapter 6 are nonbinding, they refer to a negotiated settlement of disputes, israel has no negotiating partner'

ilana

SoonForgotten2 wrote:

why do people have such unconditional support for every move Israel makes? It reeks of racism.

some might say the same thing about all those who unconditionlly support every move the arabs that call them selves palastinians make.

Ahnimus

Hezbollah was launched in 2000 after Israel captured and continued to occupy a portion of southern Lebanon. The Hezbollah effectively drove Israeli troops out of Lebanon. However Israel has continued violence towards Lebanon. Hezbollah is not supported by Iran or Syria and very few Lebonese condone them either. It is possible that Iran or Syria may provide some funding to Hezbollah, however Hezbollah is autonomous and they are acting on (what they believe) is to preserve Lebonese territory and sovereignty. Their methods are not agreeable, however their purpose clearly is.

Attacking Beirut is a major attack on Lebonese civilians. Virtually all roads and passages to other cities and other countries flow through Beirut. What Israel has done is shut down transportation for civilians, hindering aid and retreat for people in southern Lebanon. Many people are referring to it as "disproportional" which I would agree to.

Capturing a couple of Israeli soldiers is not a major attack on Israel. Israel currently has 10,000 palestinians in their jails. Which is no different, except many are women and children.

Anyone with a solid understanding of this conflict could not support Israel. This is not a defense operation, this is an offensive one. 200 Lebonese dead, mostly civilians with 25 Israelis dead, half civilians. 8 Canadians have been killed in Lebanon. Personally Lebonese, Israeli, Canadian or American, they are all the same to me, they are all people that are victims of unlawful and irrational retaliation.

As a footnote, Semitism describes both Jews and Muslims, speaking Hebrew or Arabic.

ilana

Byrnzie wrote:

That's a slightly broad sweeping statement isn't it? So you say that all protesters of the Israeli government, and the Israeli military's crimes don't mind when Israeli civilians are killed? People like you are very good at making broad sweeping statements which have no basis in reality and with no reference to the facts. I personally believe that neither Israeli's or Palestinians should be getting killed as a consequence of the crimes of the Israeli and U.S governments, who are guilty of perpetuating this situation in defiance of world opinion, and in breach of international law. All right thinking Israeli's who care about the security and the future of their country should also be protesting against the actions of their government. Plenty of them are but we hardly ever hear about this in the Western media.

the israeli government and militery are not commiting crimes by defending themselves.people like you are very good at talking absolute crap,
firstly the arabs have brought this one, on themselves, there is a price to be paid fore firing rockets at israel for kidnapping israli solders
secondly why should israel and the united states worship public opinion
who said that the publics opinion is right
all right thinking israeli's should support the right wing partys of israel who would solve this problem once and for all, they would chuck the arabs out, they whant land for peace, sure get off our land and we will give them peace.

ilana

mammasan wrote:

I keep hearing about Israel's right to self defense, what about Lebanon's rights. Last I checked Hizbollah was a terrorist organization supported bt Syria and Iran, not Lebanon. While I support Israel's right to exist and self defense I also support the same right for Lebanon and it's citizens. Do the innocent Lebanese citizens & the Lebanese government who had no hand in Hizbollah's actions not count? Do they not deserve the same rights afforded to Israel?

I'm also getting a little sick and tired of this "leftist" bullshit. Is protesting the killing of innocent civilians wrong? Are some of you so consumed by hatred that it doesn't matter who gets killed as long as it's us and our friends doing the killing it's all all OK.

it is always sad when inocent civillians who ever they might be get killed
but this is awar, people die in wars, that is the nature of war
the problem with the leftists is they are hyppocrits, they make a big protest only when the neo pals get hurt, when israeli's get hurt, no one gives a fuck,
it would be my fondest hope the no one get killed and that peace would reign in the midle east, but the reality israel face is fight or die, we didnt ask for this war but we cant afford to loose it.

RockinInCanada

ilana wrote:

it is always sad when inocent civillians who ever they might be get killed
but this is awar, people die in wars, that is the nature of war
the problem with the leftists is they are hyppocrits, they make a big protest only when the neo pals get hurt, when israeli's get hurt, no one gives a fuck,
it would be my fondest hope the no one get killed and that peace would reign in the midle east, but the reality israel face is fight or die, we didnt ask for this war but we cant afford to loose it.

Well I hope you realize your logic can go both ways like mammasan was orginally saying...anyway lets hope the bloodshed will stop sooner than later....

Ahnimus

ilana wrote:

the israeli government and militery are not commiting crimes by defending themselves.people like you are very good at talking absolute crap,
firstly the arabs have brought this one, on themselves, there is a price to be paid fore firing rockets at israel for kidnapping israli solders
secondly why should israel and the united states worship public opinion
who said that the publics opinion is right
all right thinking israeli's should support the right wing partys of israel who would solve this problem once and for all, they would chuck the arabs out, they whant land for peace, sure get off our land and we will give them peace.

As I understood democracy, it's about varrying opinions debating issues to meet somewhere in the middle or come to a mority agreement. Not just dismissing public opinion (whom the government represents) for their own conclusions.

Some of the things you said about Israeli land is heavily slanted towards Israel being a long-standing nation. Israel didn't exist 100 years ago, it's actually quite new and Israel's land is Palestinian land. That's who they stole it from. See, now you are beginning to understand the conflict. Hopefully.

miller8966

Ahnimus wrote:

Some of the things you said about Israeli land is heavily slanted towards Israel being a long-standing nation. Israel didn't exist 100 years ago, it's actually quite new and Israel's land is Palestinian land. That's who they stole it from. See, now you are beginning to understand the conflict. Hopefully.

See the palestinians use israel as their scape goat..they cant control their people, their too stupid to do that. They cant even have a functioning economy. SO when shit goes wrong who do they blame? Not themselves but israel. Which is why leftists love to support the palestinians, because just liek palestinians they cant take any blame for their actions.

AMerica and ISrael will never allow palestinians to control the holy land and i hope its kept that way