Old News Revisited!!!......Need Feedback

Commy

Carlos D wrote:

I know...because your 'facts' make such a compelling argument.Why are Americans so pathetic and obsessive over this?Whether it's motion pictures,video tributes on Youtube with Enrique Iglesias songs or this stupid conspiracy,Americans don't seem to want to get over September 11th.Yes it was tragic but why can't Americans just accept that they were weak enough to be attacked by a terrorist attack?Because that's what this is all about isn't it?Americans don't want to think for one second that there are people out there capable of doing serious damage to their country and it's much safer to fantasise and pretend come up with your own version of events where only an American could orchestrate and attack on America.Do your country a favour and join the real world sometime soon.

you know how the bin ladens and the bush's are both part of the Carlyle group, this group of investors that profit from war? And you know how the US is responsible for the creation of the radical islamist institutions in Afghanistan that later became Al-Quaeda?

Well, I wouldn't put it past these people to pull off something like 9/11. The have all gained from the tragedy.

Carlos D

Commy wrote:

you know how the bin ladens and the bush's are both part of the Carlyle group, this group of investors that profit from war? And you know how the US is responsible for the creation of the radical islamist institutions in Afghanistan that later became Al-Quaeda?

Well, I wouldn't put it past these people to pull off something like 9/11. The have all gained from the tragedy.

Oh really now?Without getting caught?If George Bush wanted to go to war he would've just made up a reason like he did with Iraq,people are just trying to justify their hatred for him by linking him with September 11th.Terrorists carried out September 11th and that's it really and I think America is a nation to be pitied if its people have been reduced to such delusional tripe.Have you people no concept of reality whatsoever?

jlew24asu

Commy wrote:

you know how the bin ladens and the bush's are both part of the Carlyle group, this group of investors that profit from war? And you know how the US is responsible for the creation of the radical islamist institutions in Afghanistan that later became Al-Quaeda?

Well, I wouldn't put it past these people to pull off something like 9/11. The have all gained from the tragedy.

tell me if you believe this...

George Bush wakes up one day and decides he needed to make more money. He comes up with a plan to have 4 planes crash into some of America's greatest icons. or asks someone to come up with a plan for him, like rumsfield or wolfowitz. they sit at starbucks and come up with this plan and put it into effect.

Bush and others know that this will give them the authority to go to war thus allowing they to "profit" from it.


thats what your saying right? do you believe that Bush did that?

jlew24asu

Carlos D wrote:

I know...because your 'facts' make such a compelling argument.Why are Americans so pathetic and obsessive over this?Whether it's motion pictures,video tributes on Youtube with Enrique Iglesias songs or this stupid conspiracy,Americans don't seem to want to get over September 11th.Yes it was tragic but why can't Americans just accept that they were weak enough to be attacked by a terrorist attack?Because that's what this is all about isn't it?Americans don't want to think for one second that there are people out there capable of doing serious damage to their country and it's much safer to fantasise and pretend come up with your own version of events where only an American could orchestrate and attack on America.Do your country a favour and join the real world sometime soon.

I see what you are trying to say and you simply dont get it. Americans arent coming up with these conspiracy theories because they think "only america could orchestrate an attack". they have these crazy theories because they believe america's leaders are evil enough to attack their own country for their personal gain.

nice try though.

Hope&Anger

jlew24asu wrote:

I see what you are trying to say and you simply dont get it. Americans arent coming up with these conspiracy theories because they think "only america could orchestrate an attack". they have these crazy theories because they believe america's leaders are evil enough to attack their own country for their personal gain.

Actually, I read an interesting article that suggests that the conspiracy theories are a long-standing tradition in American politics. We're pretty paranoid, but it's unusual for the theories to be coming from the left. In recent past, the conspiracy theories involved fears of Bolsheviks and communism, going all the way back to the Res Scare at the turn of the 20th century and McCarthyism.

So you could say that paranoia was part of our political tradition. Yay for us!! Paranoid. Political. And Proud of It!!

And CarlosD, I understand that we look foolish to you. But the country that you live in knows something about the consequences of terrorism. The IRA directed terrorism at the British for years, and it's not like it made the British any more compliant or tender-hearted in their occupation of Northern Ireland. In fact, as I understand it, the British developed some of the torture tactics that we are using now on the prisoners at Gitmo. Rather than mocking the fear that Americans feel, you might want to explain how people have learned to live with the threat of terrorism.

Commy

jlew24asu wrote:

tell me if you believe this...

George Bush wakes up one day and decides he needed to make more money. He comes up with a plan to have 4 planes crash into some of America's greatest icons. or asks someone to come up with a plan for him, like rumsfield or wolfowitz. they sit at starbucks and come up with this plan and put it into effect.

Bush and others know that this will give them the authority to go to war thus allowing they to "profit" from it.


thats what your saying right? do you believe that Bush did that?

I never conveyed the idea that George Bush planned the attacks. I don't give him that much credit.

Commy

Carlos D wrote:

Oh really now?Without getting caught?If George Bush wanted to go to war he would've just made up a reason like he did with Iraq,people are just trying to justify their hatred for him by linking him with September 11th.Terrorists carried out September 11th and that's it really and I think America is a nation to be pitied if its people have been reduced to such delusional tripe.Have you people no concept of reality whatsoever?

there is a maxim, "consent of the governed" its called. You can't simply start a war, you need public support, which is easy enough once you've just been attacked.

But there was much more to the 9/11 attacks than the carte blanch it gave the US gov't in terms of foreign policy. At home they've been able to create entire branches of gov't with the sole purpose of spying on americans. It was a serious blow in the class war, something those in power are always involved in, whether the majority realize its being waged or not.

Those in power have bypassed the constitution, courts, law, can basically do as they please...though recent polls are suggesting the people are just about fed up with the current status quo.

jlew24asu

Commy wrote:

I never conveyed the idea that George Bush planned the attacks. I don't give him that much credit.

well according to your comment, it certainly looks like you are conveying that.

Commy wrote:

you know how the bin ladens and the bush's are both part of the Carlyle group.

bush was part of the carlyle group, which profits from war. bushs are part of this group, they wanted profit, so they decided to plan 9/11.


how am I misinterpering your comment? please correct me

Paint a Picture....

Carlos D wrote:

I know...because your 'facts' make such a compelling argument.Why are Americans so pathetic and obsessive over this?Whether it's motion pictures,video tributes on Youtube with Enrique Iglesias songs or this stupid conspiracy,Americans don't seem to want to get over September 11th.Yes it was tragic but why can't Americans just accept that they were weak enough to be attacked by a terrorist attack?Because that's what this is all about isn't it?Americans don't want to think for one second that there are people out there capable of doing serious damage to their country and it's much safer to fantasise and pretend come up with your own version of events where only an American could orchestrate and attack on America.Do your country a favour and join the real world sometime soon.

If u'd read my original post u would know that ur attacking me on a completely inaccurate level, maybe u've read the post the same way u read politics, by simply taking the last thing said as gospel.

Paint a Picture....

Commy wrote:

there is a maxim, "consent of the governed" its called. You can't simply start a war, you need public support, which is easy enough once you've just been attacked.

But there was much more to the 9/11 attacks than the carte blanch it gave the US gov't in terms of foreign policy. At home they've been able to create entire branches of gov't with the sole purpose of spying on americans. It was a serious blow in the class war, something those in power are always involved in, whether the majority realize its being waged or not.

Those in power have bypassed the constitution, courts, law, can basically do as they please...though recent polls are suggesting the people are just about fed up with the current status quo.

I was confused for a long long time, it seemed highly unlikely that the attacks occured as officially reported. Even taking into account the naivety of believing that politicians would not kill they're own people for the sake of an agenda, i could not work out y they would do it on such a level.
Then i was thinking one day about the long history of my own country and to be honest it all became clear.
As far as im concerned its all very simple, and people look for complication and theories where for me there is only one factor. History has always been the rich against the poor, and there are more poor people. The age old technique for quelling the masses and maintaining the status quo? simply to divide and conquer.
This is not about making more money or spying, its simply about ensuring that the average person fears his/her neighbour enough so as never to come together to take the power back and change the world.
That is, for me, where the Bush-Bin Laden brotherhood is important and the reason for the whole thing. Simple, to my mind anyway. Re-read ur history.

Untill either:

1. people stop looking for soundbites and they're 5 minutes of fame (yes America that means you!!), stop trying to prove they are intelligent by recounting things they have been told in newspapers and on the t.v and claiming it for themselves, untill we all lose the ego and just think and feel, see with our eyes not our ears and our self importance, and just act on what we all clearly see in our hearts and minds behind the bullshit.

Or

2. humans just simply evolve to a level where greed and power are seen as silly neanderthal tendencies.

Nothing will change.

manic mind

jlew24asu wrote:

facts? dude wake up. el queda was beihnd these attacks. not the US government.

And who told you they were behind this? Your goverment! Of course our government wouldn't come out and say "Hey there! We're the ones who did this! But we have a reason why!" Haven't you learned by now that you can not believe everything your government says? I was completely against the idea that our country could be involved with this. It was impossible in my mind that people could be so evil, but once again I've seen too many things that raise questions in my mind. It's a theory as long as there is no evidence. Once the evidence keeps building up, it becomes a fact. If you did not live in N.Y. at the time you learned about this through the media. Things are so easily manipulated this way. If you were in N.Y. then you were in such a state of shock that you couldn't possibly see things clearly, if you could even see at all through the debri. Things were hidden from us on about this. That is a fact. Whether you believe that our government was involved or not, things were still kept from us. The way this has all played out just doesn't make sense. Too much evidence has been presented that has to make you ask what really happened here. If you don't at least question one thing about all of this then you have been drinking too much republican kool-aid.

jlew24asu

manic mind wrote:

And who told you they were behind this? Your goverment! Of course our government wouldn't come out and say "Hey there! We're the ones who did this! But we have a reason why!" Haven't you learned by now that you can not believe everything your government says? I was completely against the idea that our country could be involved with this. It was impossible in my mind that people could be so evil, but once again I've seen too many things that raise questions in my mind. It's a theory as long as there is no evidence. Once the evidence keeps building up, it becomes a fact. If you did not live in N.Y. at the time you learned about this through the media. Things are so easily manipulated this way. If you were in N.Y. then you were in such a state of shock that you couldn't possibly see things clearly, if you could even see at all through the debri. Things were hidden from us on about this. That is a fact. Whether you believe that our government was involved or not, things were still kept from us. The way this has all played out just doesn't make sense. Too much evidence has been presented that has to make you ask what really happened here. If you don't at least question one thing about all of this then you have been drinking too much republican kool-aid.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/11/wbin11.xml

what do you believe happened? do you, manic mind, believe george bush and other top american officals sat in a room and came up with the plan to attack america? and successfully carried it out, and kept it a secret.

Paint a Picture....

jlew24asu wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/11/wbin11.xml

what do you believe happened? do you, manic mind, believe george bush and other top american officals sat in a room and came up with the plan to attack america? and successfully carried it out, and kept it a secret.

Thay dont seem to be doing too well at keeping it a secret, if u have your eyes open. But the main thing is they DONT HAVE to keep it a secret, they just need not say anything.
No-one has yet given me a good reason why there is no litigation from people whos names are being dragged thru the mud?? in America??!?! the litigation capital of the World.

Paint a Picture....

jlew24asu wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/11/wbin11.xml

what do you believe happened? do you, manic mind, believe george bush and other top american officals sat in a room and came up with the plan to attack america? and successfully carried it out, and kept it a secret.

And also, are you, jlew24asu, familiar with the term "Naive"? or "corruption"? or "precedent" or "collateral damage" or "the big picture"?
Or is it fact, up in your storage area, that once u are elected a world leader, u take ur place on the big table alongside Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny?

jlew24asu

Paint a Picture.... wrote:

And also, are you, jlew24asu, familiar with the term "Naive"? or "corruption"? or "precedent" or "collateral damage" or "the big picture"?
Or is it fact, up in your storage area, that once u are elected a world leader, u take ur place on the big table alongside Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny?

yes I am very familiar with those terms. I have seen no proof that america was involved with the planning and carrying out of 9/11.

jlew24asu

Paint a Picture.... wrote:

Thay dont seem to be doing too well at keeping it a secret, if u have your eyes open. But the main thing is they DONT HAVE to keep it a secret, they just need not say anything.
No-one has yet given me a good reason why there is no litigation from people whos names are being dragged thru the mud?? in America??!?! the litigation capital of the World.

my eyes are wide open. so you think the US government sues people who say things againt them? no wonder you arent american

sonicreducer

jlew24asu wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/11/wbin11.xml

what do you believe happened? do you, manic mind, believe george bush and other top american officals sat in a room and came up with the plan to attack america? and successfully carried it out, and kept it a secret.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/index.html

'osama denies involvement'

http://www.gnn.tv/threads/50/Understanding_American_propaganda_Osama_video

'suspicion about the authenticity of the tapes'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3618762.stm

a timeline,... the U.S. releases a tape, but some say it was a fraud. we all know about the video where bin laden was wearing a gold ring, writing with the wrong hand, and had gained a lot of weight. obviously, he doesn't look anything like the other bin laden. which is fake? i don't know. there are too many coincidences and holes in the official story and too many people claiming otherwise. imo, fabricated evidence for a bullshit agenda


http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/09/20060911-3.html
'bush admits saddam not linked to 9/11'

about a 1/4 of the way through the video,...



does anyone remember when bush claimed saddam was tied to 9/11 to go to war with iraq?

Paint a Picture....

jlew24asu wrote:

my eyes are wide open. so you think the US government sues people who say things againt them? no wonder you arent american

I'm not American because i wasnt born in America, and i dont live there, not because of anything i think, i think, but maybe yours is a good argument, i think its a little meaningless, even braindead.
Its not about sueing people who say things about them, its about defending urself against what should be horrifying accusations, by blowing them out the water with hard fact, which surely shouldnt be hard to find??

jlew24asu

Paint a Picture.... wrote:

I'm not American because i wasnt born in America, and i dont live there, not because of anything i think, i think, but maybe yours is a good argument, i think its a little meaningless, even braindead.
Its not about sueing people who say things about them, its about defending urself against what should be horrifying accusations, by blowing them out the water with hard fact, which surely shouldnt be hard to find??

this response is somewhat braindead. I wasnt even talking to you.

Paint a Picture....

jlew24asu wrote:

this response is somewhat braindead. I wasnt even talking to you.

So why quote me in the response? WOW!! are u related to George Bush?? u seem to have the same talents for rewriting history with crazy words, haha! im afraid i can no longer debate with you jlew, we're on different planets, but i do thank you greatly! Because u have begun to enlighten me as to how america can be both an amazing and interesting place, and also so fucking stupid!!