How many of those deaths were at the hands of fellow iraqi's?
I don't know if this question is relevant. The study does not try to find a culprit but to assess the number of deaths in this 4 year war. The only thing you can conclude right now is that this war is much more murderous than the official conclusions would show.
There can be no judgment before the war comes to an end.
So you're an expert on these surveys are you? Did you even read the article above? The figures they have come up with are 'conservative estimates', but because you know better, the figures must be exagerrated, right?
where are the mass graves of all these people? 1.2 million huh? bodies have to be somewhere.
and where is your outrage for Iraqis killing each other? if 1.2 million is even close to true. 99% of that number is Iraqis killing Iraqis. cant that be held accountable for the death?
I don't know if this question is relevant. The study does not try to find a culprit but to assess the number of deaths in this 4 year war. The only thing you can conclude right now is that this war is much more murderous than the official conclusions would show.
There can be no judgment before the war comes to an end.
Well, the study may not be in search of a culprit, but the OP sure is.
How many of those deaths were at the hands of fellow iraqi's?
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/sep2007/orb-s15.shtml
'The survey found that 48 percent of the violent deaths were due to gunshot wounds, 20 percent to car bombs, 9 percent to aerial bombardment, 6 percent to other ordnance or explosions, and 6 percent to accidents.
The figure for aerial bombardments is particularly noteworthy since such deaths—numbering well over 100,000 according to the ORB study—go virtually unreported in the American media. This is doubtless because such killings are entirely the work of the US and British occupation forces, the only ones equipped with helicopters and warplanes.'
where are the mass graves of all these people? 1.2 million huh? bodies have to be somewhere.
Did you not bother to read the articles posted which explain the subject matter at hand?
http://medialens.org/alerts/06/061031_lancet_co_author.php
'3. Why is it so hard for people to believe the Lancet report?
I am an Iraqi and can assure you that the figure given is nearer to the truth than any given before or since.
S Kazwini, London, UK
LR: I think it is hard to accept these results for a couple of reasons. People do not see the bodies. While in the UK there are well over 1000 deaths a day, they do not see the bodies there either. Secondly, people feel that all those government officials and all those reporters must be detecting a big portion of the deaths. When in actuality during times of war, it is rare for even 20% to be detected. Finally, there has been so much media attention given to the surveillance-based numbers put out by the coalition forces, the Iraqi Government and a couple of corroborating groups, that a population-based number is a dramatic contrast.'
and where is your outrage for Iraqis killing each other? if 1.2 million is even close to true. 99% of that number is Iraqis killing Iraqis. cant that be held accountable for the death?
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/sep2007/orb-s15.shtml
'The survey found that 48 percent of the violent deaths were due to gunshot wounds, 20 percent to car bombs, 9 percent to aerial bombardment, 6 percent to other ordnance or explosions, and 6 percent to accidents.
The figure for aerial bombardments is particularly noteworthy since such deaths—numbering well over 100,000 according to the ORB study—go virtually unreported in the American media. This is doubtless because such killings are entirely the work of the US and British occupation forces, the only ones equipped with helicopters and warplanes.'
You oughta leave KY and come visit NY for a while. I'll get rid of that numbness in you!
New Yorkers are cold!
You get where I'm coming from though? The whole war doesn't really affect me other than It costs more to fill up my gas tank.....it sucks that people are dying for that reason, but I don't see it firsthand...its almost like I'm watching it on TV...likes its a fiction movie.
You get where I'm coming from though? The whole war doesn't really affect me other than It costs more to fill up my gas tank.....it sucks that people are dying for that reason, but I don't see it firsthand...its almost like I'm watching it on TV...likes its a fiction movie.
I don't get you at all. I don't get where you're coming from when you fill your gas tank, or watch TV and fiction movies.
Because, me....I can watch a young teenager kiss his girlfriend on the sidewalk, outside my local deli, and wonder whether this young boy is going to join the military and fight an unwanted war and maybe get his ass killed.
I can bang into a woman on the street who seems distracted and wonder whether she has a son or daughter in the armed forces, who she is worried about.
I can look beyond my little world filled with work Monday through Friday, TV and DVD's in between, and still care enough to keep informed about what's going on all over the world today. I can look beyond my limited life and see that others go through their lives all around me, every day.
if 1.2 million is even close to true. 99% of that number is Iraqis killing Iraqis. cant that be held accountable for the death?
Even though your figures are wrong, are you in fact trying to say that the turmoil in Iraq is mainly the fault of Iraqis, and that America is innocent in all of this? Do you think any of this chaos would have occured if the U.S hadn't invaded and torn the country apart?
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/sep2007/orb-s15.shtml
'The survey found that 48 percent of the violent deaths were due to gunshot wounds, 20 percent to car bombs, 9 percent to aerial bombardment, 6 percent to other ordnance or explosions, and 6 percent to accidents.
The figure for aerial bombardments is particularly noteworthy since such deaths—numbering well over 100,000 according to the ORB study—go virtually unreported in the American media. This is doubtless because such killings are entirely the work of the US and British occupation forces, the only ones equipped with helicopters and warplanes.'
You really didnt answer the question, now did you?
sorry I dont find it to be accurate. no matter how long your replies of cutting and pasting are.
You're probably right about this. It more than likely isn't accurate:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/sep2007/orb-s15.shtml
'For security reasons, no interviews were conducted in Al Anbar or Karbala provinces, or in the province of Irbil, where Kurdish authorities refused to allow field interviews. Since Anbar and Karbala are among the bloodiest battlefields of the war, and Irbil among the quietest, the exclusion of the three provinces would more likely to lead to an underestimation of the death toll than an exaggeration.'
Well, it's not my fault that you can't do simple mathematics.
Forgive me if I didnt see in your endless cut pastes a number on how many of those deaths were caused by fellow countrymen. Since you're so good at it, maybe you could cut/paste that particular part for me.
Forgive me if I didnt see in your endless cut pastes a number on how many of those deaths were caused by fellow countrymen. Since you're so good at it, maybe you could cut/paste that particular part for me.
Well, simply going by the post of mine above regarding the 9% percent aerial bombardments e.t.c, I'd say the amount killed by coalition forces is at least somewhere in the region of 15% - 20%. So let's for arguments sake say that approx a quarter of a million have been killed by coalition forces and approx a million have been killed by their fellow countrymen.
Well, simply going the post of mine above regarding the 9% percent aerial bombardments e.t.c, I'd say the amount killed by coalition forces is at least somewhere in the region of 15% - 20%. So let's for arguments sake say that approx a quarter of a million have been killed by coalition forces and approx a million have been killed by their fellow countrymen.
Okay then. Thanks. Ignoring your faith in those numbers, more of the killing is at their own hands, and not OUR soldiers? Interesting.
Okay then. Thanks. Ignoring your faith in those numbers, more of the killing is at their own hands, and not OUR soldiers? Interesting.
So that's fine then. America can now wash it's hands of the issue and sleep soundly at night.
Obviously the invasion and occupation have nothing to do with the current turmoil over there.
So that's fine then. America can now wash it's hands of the issue and sleep soundly at night.
Obviously the invasion and occupation have nothing to do with the current turmoil over there.
Wash our hands? No. But surely you recognize that there was "turmoil" and death and killing LONG before we got there.
So that's fine then. America can now wash it's hands of the issue and sleep soundly at night.
Obviously the invasion and occupation have nothing to do with the current turmoil over there.
The fact that we killed most of the Iraqi military and disbanded the rest - eliminated their government and then set up security.... and that we still occupy their nation and patrol their streets in with weapons....
yes, the complete lawlessness is 100% our responsibility
and 99% is obscene...
many deaths are from crime due to the complete failure of our occupation...
but the numbers killed directly by "coalition" hands is more than half.. Hell we killed 100,000 in the military alone.
but we still like to pretend .. in spite of the horrific consequences.
Either way no response from the US on all fronts to this report.
deaf ears...
Sshhhh!
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
I don't know if this question is relevant. The study does not try to find a culprit but to assess the number of deaths in this 4 year war. The only thing you can conclude right now is that this war is much more murderous than the official conclusions would show.
There can be no judgment before the war comes to an end.
where are the mass graves of all these people? 1.2 million huh? bodies have to be somewhere.
and where is your outrage for Iraqis killing each other? if 1.2 million is even close to true. 99% of that number is Iraqis killing Iraqis. cant that be held accountable for the death?
Hiya speedy! Only 3 eh? Well, at least the blood isnt only on the US's hands then.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Well, the study may not be in search of a culprit, but the OP sure is.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/sep2007/orb-s15.shtml
'The survey found that 48 percent of the violent deaths were due to gunshot wounds, 20 percent to car bombs, 9 percent to aerial bombardment, 6 percent to other ordnance or explosions, and 6 percent to accidents.
The figure for aerial bombardments is particularly noteworthy since such deaths—numbering well over 100,000 according to the ORB study—go virtually unreported in the American media. This is doubtless because such killings are entirely the work of the US and British occupation forces, the only ones equipped with helicopters and warplanes.'
Did you not bother to read the articles posted which explain the subject matter at hand?
http://medialens.org/alerts/06/061031_lancet_co_author.php
'3. Why is it so hard for people to believe the Lancet report?
I am an Iraqi and can assure you that the figure given is nearer to the truth than any given before or since.
S Kazwini, London, UK
LR: I think it is hard to accept these results for a couple of reasons. People do not see the bodies. While in the UK there are well over 1000 deaths a day, they do not see the bodies there either. Secondly, people feel that all those government officials and all those reporters must be detecting a big portion of the deaths. When in actuality during times of war, it is rare for even 20% to be detected. Finally, there has been so much media attention given to the surveillance-based numbers put out by the coalition forces, the Iraqi Government and a couple of corroborating groups, that a population-based number is a dramatic contrast.'
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/sep2007/orb-s15.shtml
'The survey found that 48 percent of the violent deaths were due to gunshot wounds, 20 percent to car bombs, 9 percent to aerial bombardment, 6 percent to other ordnance or explosions, and 6 percent to accidents.
The figure for aerial bombardments is particularly noteworthy since such deaths—numbering well over 100,000 according to the ORB study—go virtually unreported in the American media. This is doubtless because such killings are entirely the work of the US and British occupation forces, the only ones equipped with helicopters and warplanes.'
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Indian Summer: Grow up and get a conscience. Get an "other worldy" view. Or get a stilleto in your crotch, whatever wakes you up.
Peace,
Bu
Just saying that's how it is. There's nothing you or I can do about.
We can still care, if nothing else.
I think I'm numb to that anymore.
I get nothing but negative vibes from you.
You oughta leave KY and come visit NY for a while. I'll get rid of that numbness in you!
New Yorkers are cold!
You get where I'm coming from though? The whole war doesn't really affect me other than It costs more to fill up my gas tank.....it sucks that people are dying for that reason, but I don't see it firsthand...its almost like I'm watching it on TV...likes its a fiction movie.
I don't get you at all. I don't get where you're coming from when you fill your gas tank, or watch TV and fiction movies.
Because, me....I can watch a young teenager kiss his girlfriend on the sidewalk, outside my local deli, and wonder whether this young boy is going to join the military and fight an unwanted war and maybe get his ass killed.
I can bang into a woman on the street who seems distracted and wonder whether she has a son or daughter in the armed forces, who she is worried about.
I can look beyond my little world filled with work Monday through Friday, TV and DVD's in between, and still care enough to keep informed about what's going on all over the world today. I can look beyond my limited life and see that others go through their lives all around me, every day.
I feel for them.
You don't have to do whatever your Government wants you to do, or think the way they, and the media, want you to think.
Even though your figures are wrong, are you in fact trying to say that the turmoil in Iraq is mainly the fault of Iraqis, and that America is innocent in all of this? Do you think any of this chaos would have occured if the U.S hadn't invaded and torn the country apart?
yeeess just like those WMDs have to be somewhere. :rolleyes:
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
You really didnt answer the question, now did you?
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Well, it's not my fault that you can't do simple mathematics.
You're probably right about this. It more than likely isn't accurate:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/sep2007/orb-s15.shtml
'For security reasons, no interviews were conducted in Al Anbar or Karbala provinces, or in the province of Irbil, where Kurdish authorities refused to allow field interviews. Since Anbar and Karbala are among the bloodiest battlefields of the war, and Irbil among the quietest, the exclusion of the three provinces would more likely to lead to an underestimation of the death toll than an exaggeration.'
Forgive me if I didnt see in your endless cut pastes a number on how many of those deaths were caused by fellow countrymen. Since you're so good at it, maybe you could cut/paste that particular part for me.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Well, simply going by the post of mine above regarding the 9% percent aerial bombardments e.t.c, I'd say the amount killed by coalition forces is at least somewhere in the region of 15% - 20%. So let's for arguments sake say that approx a quarter of a million have been killed by coalition forces and approx a million have been killed by their fellow countrymen.
Okay then. Thanks. Ignoring your faith in those numbers, more of the killing is at their own hands, and not OUR soldiers? Interesting.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
So that's fine then. America can now wash it's hands of the issue and sleep soundly at night.
Obviously the invasion and occupation have nothing to do with the current turmoil over there.
Wash our hands? No. But surely you recognize that there was "turmoil" and death and killing LONG before we got there.
www.myspace.com/jensvad
The fact that we killed most of the Iraqi military and disbanded the rest - eliminated their government and then set up security.... and that we still occupy their nation and patrol their streets in with weapons....
yes, the complete lawlessness is 100% our responsibility
and 99% is obscene...
many deaths are from crime due to the complete failure of our occupation...
but the numbers killed directly by "coalition" hands is more than half.. Hell we killed 100,000 in the military alone.
but we still like to pretend .. in spite of the horrific consequences.
Yes and for oil. 1.2+ million people = how many barrels of oil?
deaf ears...
Sshhhh!
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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