Has Israel not been in a permanent state of war since it's creation in 1948?
Pretty much, yes.
But in no way is your hyperbole sentence indicative of Israel as the catalysts of all the conflict.
There's a whole lot more that has been going on and there have been a lot of contributers to the on-going conflict; who are not Israeli.
You're comments are as biased and generalized as of those you (and others) attack and condemn, for generalizing (or for what you percieve) as generalizing and stereotyping Muslims.
It appears it's okay to stereotype and generalize Israel and Jews, but god forbid anyone do the same with Muslims.
Yeah, good quote as long as your talking bollocks.
U.S. Helped Israel Plan for Hezbollah Clash, New Yorker Says
Aug. 14 (Bloomberg) -- President George W. Bush's administration was involved in planning Israeli attacks on Hezbollah fighters and views the initiative as a prelude to possible U.S. bombing of Iran, The New Yorker magazine's Seymour Hersh reported.
The report cited unidentified current and former intelligence officers in Israel and the U.S. as well as officials in Israel and Defense Department consultants. Administration officials denied knowledge of Israel's plan for the air war in Lebanon and declined to respond to a detailed list of questions, Hersh wrote.
The U.S. government wanted to strip Hezbollah, which is backed by Iran and Syria, of missiles because they could be fired at Israel in a counter-attack in the event of a U.S. attack on Iran, a Middle East expert with knowledge of the current thinking of the U.S. and Israeli governments said, according to the report.
Bush and Vice-President Dick Cheney were convinced a successful Israeli bombing of Hezbollah's underground missile and command complexes in Lebanon could ease Israel's security concerns and serve as a prelude to a potential pre-emptive attack to destroy Iran's nuclear installations, current and former intelligence officials were reported as saying.
"What I understand is this: our military, our Air Force has been trying for a year to get plans for a major massive bombing assault on Iran pushed through the Pentagon, pushed through the process. And there's been sort of an internecine fight inside the Pentagon over just basically the idea of strategic war against Iran. They're very dug in Iran. The Persians have been digging in for -- what? -- centuries and centuries. And the Marines and the Navy and the Army have said, No way we're going to start bombing, because it will end up with troops on the ground. So there's been a stalemate. I've written a lot about it." Seymour Hersh
David Baker, spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, had no comment when contacted by Bloomberg News. The White House duty press officer didn't respond to a request for comment.
How can you deny Friedman's statement??? The article you posted has absolutely nothing to do with it... they aren't even remotely connected. If you don't agree, then explain why.
You mean fighting from the safety of F16 fighter jets and Apache helicopters? Yeah, really brave. As soon as Israels had to fight like men on the ground they got whooped.
Sure. Just ignore the facts that I previously stated about blending in with civilians, digging trenches for six years, in addition to being armed by Iran. Fight like men? Hezbollah are a bunch of terrorist scumbag cowards. It speaks volumes about your morality (or lack thereof) that you align yourself with such a group.
Don't take the statement out of context. Sure, there has always been conflict. But as the article when on to say.... the IDF had just fought their own citizens in removing them from Gaza and the country had just elected a Prime Minister who pledged to unilateraly withdraw from the West Bank in return for NOTHING!
They were expecting a decrease in tension due to their concessions - that is what that statement means...
"In return for NOTHING". So what exactly should an occupying army expect in your scheme of things?
You mean fighting from the safety of F16 fighter jets and Apache helicopters? Yeah, really brave. As soon as Israels had to fight like men on the ground they got whooped.
You confuse me. I can understand being against Israel's aggressions, as I was, I thought they went overboard. But your praise for Hezbollah and the Chechen rebels is strange. You think Israel fighting from F16's is cowardly, but you think a group like the Chechens, that take over elementary schools, theatres, and hospitals are warriors? You obviously arent really concerned with innocent civilians dieing, your only concerned with those that die at the hands of the Israeli's. You can believe that both sides are out of line ya know. Its not a sporting event, you dont have to cheer for one side over the other.
Ah, some more innocent, non-violent victims illustrating their deep desire for love and peace:rolleyes:
Nothing says Love and Peace, like a good afternoon torture, lyncing, and murdering. Not to mention all the love and peace involved in stomping and brutalizing of a dead human body.
Where can I get me some love and peace, like that?:rolleyes:
You mean fighting from the safety of F16 fighter jets and Apache helicopters? Yeah, really brave. As soon as Israels had to fight like men on the ground they got whooped.
I am seriously asking you how old you are. I just want to get a handle on what kind of education and life experience you've had.
People on here post time and again about your lack of credibility, yet you continue to argue with the logic that borders on insantity.
- We claim that Hezbollah are cowards because they hide behind civillians and purposely target civillians.
- You respond by saying Hezbollah are warriors because they don't have modern arms.
Are you kidding me? They don't have modern arms becuase they are incapable of producing a societey that can create modern arms like tanks and helicopters.
You confuse me. I can understand being against Israel's aggressions, as I was, I thought they went overboard. But your praise for Hezbollah and the Chechen rebels is strange. You think Israel fighting from F16's is cowardly, but you think a group like the Chechens, that take over elementary schools, theatres, and hospitals are warriors? You obviously arent really concerned with innocent civilians dieing, your only concerned with those that die at the hands of the Israeli's. You can believe that both sides are out of line ya know. Its not a sporting event, you dont have to cheer for one side over the other.
Clearly there isn't an objective or realistic bone in his body.
His reasoning is absurd and highy flooded in double-standards and bias.
They don't have modern arms becuase they are incapable of producing a societey that can create modern arms like tanks and helicopters.
Could you expand on this anthropological argument please?
Do you think "these people" still ive in tents in the desert, riding camels playing with swords?
"Incapabale of producing a society.." Hey, stop right there buddy, I think you've nailed your "Muslims are inferior," colours to the mast with that one.
Jeez. What happedned to equality and fraternity, eh? Must only apply to those in the "in" racist, American, Imperialist crowd.
Two words: Civil Rights.
Don't these rights apply to ALL human beings around the globe?
The world's greatest empires progress through this sequence:From bondage to spiritual faith; spiritual faith to great courage; courage to liberty;liberty to abundance;abundance to selfishness; selfishness to complacency;complacency to apathy;apathy to dependence;dependency back again into bondage
That comment says more about your obvious racism that about anything else.
I've written you off buddy... you aren't worth it. The only people you're going to influence are those that are more stupid than you - so I'm not too concerned about it.
Funny from what I take of the ordeal that nothing was accomplished...Israel did not crush Hezbollah, unfortunatley (and how many times did I say it) have re-enforced the popular opinion of Hezbollah within Lebanon...essentially created more people who want to follow the way of the martyr.....Im not celebrating that fact...simply stating that it is fact....Hezbollah unfortunaly "won" (not in the sense of military but in the more powerful sense of politically)....which is too bad....Israel essentially "lost" because they have given more support than they lessened....I would say that Israel would have won if the popular support of Hezbollah decreased...it unfortunatly as not...and thanks to Israel we should see a new wave of fundanutalists in the Missle East....like I said time and time again that this would happen...funny most of the kooky "Liberal" media also stated this as well.....war only breeds war.....although everyone laughed and ridiculed us....
Hezbollah is not Nazi Germany they need to be dealt with differently...to defeat Hezbollah you must win the people...Israel choose to go against the people (I hope their intent was not to and I will treat it at that) by waging war in their homes....therefore ultimately they did lose....next time they should realize fighting will not win over the people....like I said in many posts since last week...major concessions need to be made....something needs to sway the negative opinion and that will take work from both sides...yes it requires more brains than brute force and yes it will requires patientce....but if both sides can get over their inflated ego's and listen to what EACH OTHER desire they may have a better idea on what is going on in the brain of the enemy....and hopefully may find a more constructive way to deal with things instead of killing those that want no war.....
I am seriously asking you how old you are. I just want to get a handle on what kind of education and life experience you've had.
People on here post time and again about your lack of credibility, yet you continue to argue with the logic that borders on insantity.
- We claim that Hezbollah are cowards because they hide behind civillians and purposely target civillians.
- You respond by saying Hezbollah are warriors because they don't have modern arms.
Are you kidding me? They don't have modern arms becuase they are incapable of producing a societey that can create modern arms like tanks and helicopters.
I didn't say that Hizbollah were warriors because they don't have modern arms. I said they were warriors because they are tough muthafuckers. Your last sentence would be laughable if wasn't indicative of your racism.
Clearly there isn't an objective or realistic bone in his body.
His reasoning is absurd and highy flooded in double-standards and bias.
Like I said, I wasnt in favor of Israel's actions and I do think they went over board. But at the same time, that certainly doesnt mean I am going to praise Hezbollah, or even worse the Chechens. Im not going to play the hypocrite card and condemn Israel for killing civilians, and then turn around and cheer on other groups that also kill civilians.
I didn't say that Hizbollah were warriors because they don't have modern arms. I said they were warriors because they are tough muthafuckers. Your last sentence would be laughable if wasn't indicative of your racism.
Clearly there isn't an objective or realistic bone in his body.
His reasoning is absurd and highy flooded in double-standards and bias.
Could you highlight the double standards please?
And really, what that guy said above about cheering sides and all that, true, of course, but in answer to the "cowards" comment above, If the IDF stopped hiding behind Planes and artillery, and took a thousand of their best men, and put them against a thousand of Hezbollah freedom fighters, same equipment, I know whose my money would be on.
Those who use bombs and planes are cowards,
The world's greatest empires progress through this sequence:From bondage to spiritual faith; spiritual faith to great courage; courage to liberty;liberty to abundance;abundance to selfishness; selfishness to complacency;complacency to apathy;apathy to dependence;dependency back again into bondage
Could you expand on this anthropological argument please?
Do you think "these people" still ive in tents in the desert, riding camels playing with swords?
"Incapabale of producing a society.." Hey, stop right there buddy, I think you've nailed your "Muslims are inferior," colours to the mast with that one.
Jeez. What happedned to equality and fraternity, eh? Must only apply to those in the "in" racist, American, Imperialist crowd.
Two words: Civil Rights.
Don't these rights apply to ALL human beings around the globe?
Thanks for proving my point.... Islamic fundamentalist don't believe in civil rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why would try to call me out for stating the obvioius??? Jesus fucking tap dancing Christ..... why don't you get mad at them for not HAVING civil rights??????
Islamic fundamentalist do not want to create a society that promotes and encourages the institutions or the environment that fosters education and equality.
They do not support higher education on the level that will produce the knoweldge (science, engineering, balistics, etc...) necessary to build helicopters and precision munisions.....
Thanks for proving my point.... Islamic fundamentalist don't believe in civil rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why would try to call me out for stating the obvioius??? Jesus fucking tap dancing Christ..... why don't you get mad at them for not HAVING civil rights??????
Islamic fundamentalist do not want to create a society that promotes and encourages the institutions or the environment that fosters education and equality.
They do not support higher education on the level that will produce the knoweldge (science, engineering, balistics, etc...) necessary to build helicopters and precision munisions.....
Unfucking believable!!!!!!
I have a feeling I'm going to get banned again...it seems that every time this guy enters a thread, the thread gets closed and I find that my posting privileges are gone.
Like I said, I wasnt in favor of Israel's actions and I do think they went over board. But at the same time, that certainly doesnt mean I am going to praise Hezbollah, or even worse the Chechens. Im not going to play the hypocrite card and condemn Israel for killing civilians, and then turn around and cheer on other groups that also kill civilians.
Exactly.
Some simply don't comprehend such thought processes and ideals.
Thanks for proving my point.... Islamic fundamentalist don't believe in civil rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why would try to call me out for stating the obvioius??? Jesus fucking tap dancing Christ..... why don't you get mad at them for not HAVING civil rights??????
Islamic fundamentalist do not want to create a society that promotes and encourages the institutions or the environment that fosters education and equality.
They do not support higher education on the level that will produce the knoweldge (science, engineering, balistics, etc...) necessary to build helicopters and precision munisions.....
Unfucking believable!!!!!!
That is why you must win the people....not kill the people....easy concept but no one wants to go to great lengths to help those over there that are not invovled in Fundanutalism....the only the way the West believes to get the support is through weapons and once with Iraq...now with Lebanon...it has failed...new strategy needed....win over the people with non-militaristic means...show them actual freedom...lead the people of these nations to take Fundanutalism down ...the West will never beat these guys...it will take their own people to defeat them.....
Maybe it our ego that prevents us from doing that....
Funny from what I take of the ordeal that nothing was accomplished...Israel did not crush Hezbollah, unfortunatley (and how many times did I say it) have re-enforced the popular opinion of Hezbollah within Lebanon...essentially created more people who want to follow the way of the martyr.....Im not celebrating that fact...simply stating that it is fact....Hezbollah unfortunaly "won" (not in the sense of military but in the more powerful sense of politically)....which is too bad....Israel essentially "lost" because they have given more support than they lessened....I would say that Israel would have won if the popular support of Hezbollah decreased...it unfortunatly as not...and thanks to Israel we should see a new wave of fundanutalists in the Missle East....like I said time and time again that this would happen...funny most of the kooky "Liberal" media also stated this as well.....war only breeds war.....although everyone laughed and ridiculed us....
Hezbollah is not Nazi Germany they need to be dealt with differently...to defeat Hezbollah you must win the people...Israel choose to go against the people (I hope their intent was not to and I will treat it at that) by waging war in their homes....therefore ultimately they did lose....next time they should realize fighting will not win over the people....like I said in many posts since last week...major concessions need to be made....something needs to sway the negative opinion and that will take work from both sides...yes it requires more brains than brute force and yes it will requires patientce....but if both sides can get over their inflated ego's and listen to what EACH OTHER desire they may have a better idea on what is going on in the brain of the enemy....and hopefully may find a more constructive way to deal with things instead of killing those that want no war.....
Please read......
The Morning After the Morning After
by Thomas L. Friedman
With every war there are two days to keep in mind when the guns fall silent: the morning after, and the morning after the morning after. America, Israel and all those who want to see Lebanon’s democracy revived need to keep their eyes focused on the morning after the morning after.
Here’s why.
The only way that the fighting in south Lebanon will be brought to a close is if all the parties accept a cease-fire and the imposition of a robust international peacekeeping force, led by France, along the Israel-Lebanon border — supplanting Hezbollah.
The morning after that cease-fire goes into effect, everyone knows what will happen: Hezbollah’s leader, Hassan Nasrallah — no matter how battered his forces and how much damage his reckless war has visited on Lebanon — will crawl out of his bunker and declare a “great victory.” Hezbollah, he will say, fought the Israeli Army to a standstill inside Lebanon and rained rockets on northern Israel. Meanwhile, military analysts everywhere will write that Israel has “lost its deterrence” vis-à-vis Arab forces, and blah, blah, blah.
Sorry, been there, heard that, and I don’t buy it. What matters in war, alas, is the balance of destruction on the ground and the political weight it exerts over time.
On the morning after the morning after, Lebanese war refugees, who had real jobs and homes, will start streaming back by the hundreds of thousands, many of them Shiites. Tragically, they will find their homes or businesses badly damaged or obliterated. Yes, they will curse Israel. But they and other Arabs will also start asking Nasrallah publicly what many are already asking privately:
“What was this war all about? What did we get from this and at what price? Israel has some roofs to repair and some dead to bury. But its economy and state are fully intact, and it will recover quickly. We Lebanese have been set back by a decade. Our economy and our democracy lie in ruins, like our homes. For what? For a one-week boost in ‘Arab honor?’ So that Iran could distract the world’s attention from its nuclear program? You did all this to us for another country?”
As Michael Young, opinion editor of The Beirut Daily Star, put it an article in Slate: “Hezbollah’s ... test will be to rapidly alleviate the suffering in its own community and, therefore, avoid losing its base. The party still has substantial backing among its coreligionists, and it is not about to see this disappear. But soon the fate of the hundreds of thousands of Shiites now living in schools, tent cities, and even public parks will be an overriding concern for Nasrallah. Many have fled areas partly or wholly destroyed, to which they might not return for months or years. ... Hezbollah will have to provide funding for reconstruction and rehabilitation that is likely to run into the billions of dollars. ... The party will have a monumental task to revive not only Shiite morale but confidence that Hezbollah can take care of its own. ... Even the party’s most optimistic interpretation of the current war — that it is a heroic achievement — will not spare it having to tiptoe very carefully through Shiite trauma.”
Moreover, if and when a French-led international force is placed along the Israel-Lebanon border, it will be a big loss for Hezbollah. The Shiite militia will no longer be able to directly touch Israel and start a war for Iran or Syria whenever it chooses. And, if Hezbollah tried to lob missiles over the peacekeeping zone, or penetrate it, it would clash with forces from France, Italy and Turkey, the likely peacekeepers. That means Hezbollah, Iran and Syria would not be able to hurt Israel without also hurting their own relations with the European Union.
Israel needs to keep its eyes on the prize. It’s already inflicted enormous damage on Hezbollah and its community, but Nasrallah will only have to pay the full price for inviting all that destruction once the guns fall silent on the morning after the morning after. So let’s get there as soon as possible. That will deter him. What would deter him even more, though, would be if the U.N. would go ahead and impose sanctions on Iran for its illicit nuclear bomb program. After all, it was Iran, Nasrallah’s master, that ordered up this war to distract the U.N. from doing just that. It would be nice to say to Iran: You ravaged Hezbollah for nothing.
Beyond those two limited objectives, there’s no storybook ending for Israel in Lebanon, and it shouldn’t throw more good lives after some elusive knockout blow. It’s just not that kind of neighborhood. As they say in the movies, “Forget it, Jake. It’s Chinatown.”
Sure. Just ignore the facts that I previously stated about blending in with civilians, digging trenches for six years, in addition to being armed by Iran. Fight like men? Hezbollah are a bunch of terrorist scumbag cowards. It speaks volumes about your morality (or lack thereof) that you align yourself with such a group.
At what point did I 'align myself with such a group'? As for terrorism, how do Israels actions not qualify as terrorism?
At what point did I 'align myself with such a group'? As for terrorism, how do Israels actions not qualify as terrorism?
If you consider Israel's actions as terrorism that is fine and you can certainly make that argument. But, why do you consider Israel terrorists, but Hezbollah and the Chechnyan rebels as warriors?
What do you know about the British media?? You live in Israel. Talking of having the first clue as to what happened on the ground, what the fuck do you know?
I love it. "You live in Israel. What the fuck do you know?" I'd say living in the war zone makes me a bit more privy to what's going on than you. My being in Israel does not, as you imply, preclude me from exposure to the rags that are the BBC, the Guardian, and the Independent. I could bring down these boards if I posted every article by the media watchdog group CAMERA on the bias and outright hostility towards Israel in the British media.
Are you in the IDF? As for the rest of your post - stick it up your ass! Perhaps you were simply attempting to get the thread deleted because it's not to your liking. Try harder!
no, my induction date is in march. please, do me a favor and join the ISM after then. or better yet, join your heroes in hezbollah. be the third british national in as many years to murder israelis!
As for your 'Location' information = 'Haifa, Israel, Bitches', what's that?
it's my confirming a fact which you can't stand, that i'm a proud jew and an unapologetic zionist. i'm glad my mere existence in my homeland offends you so much.
Does the fact that you simply happen to live in Israel mean that you automatically have to support and defend every action of your government?
actually, i hate my government right now. i can't wait for early elections so olmert and the rest of those incompetent bastards can get thrown out on their asses. the idf fought this entire war with one hand tied behind its back, and for the first time it's not america's or the un's fault. it's our own leaders' fault.
to many people here it may seem like the israel-supporters blindly defend everything israel does. that is not the case. it's just that 99.99999999999%, hell, 100% of the "criticism" of israel on this board is ignorant, licentious, or just plain hate-speech.
for meaningful discourse on israel and zionism i talk to people with at least some background knowledge on the topic. i mainly only read posts here now because of some masochistic thrill that comes with encountering the depths of hopeless ignoramuses and moral cripples such as yourself.
They do not support higher education on the level that will produce the knoweldge (science, engineering, balistics, etc...) necessary to build helicopters and precision munisions.....
Comments
Pretty much, yes.
But in no way is your hyperbole sentence indicative of Israel as the catalysts of all the conflict.
There's a whole lot more that has been going on and there have been a lot of contributers to the on-going conflict; who are not Israeli.
You're comments are as biased and generalized as of those you (and others) attack and condemn, for generalizing (or for what you percieve) as generalizing and stereotyping Muslims.
It appears it's okay to stereotype and generalize Israel and Jews, but god forbid anyone do the same with Muslims.
How can you deny Friedman's statement??? The article you posted has absolutely nothing to do with it... they aren't even remotely connected. If you don't agree, then explain why.
Sure. Just ignore the facts that I previously stated about blending in with civilians, digging trenches for six years, in addition to being armed by Iran. Fight like men? Hezbollah are a bunch of terrorist scumbag cowards. It speaks volumes about your morality (or lack thereof) that you align yourself with such a group.
"In return for NOTHING". So what exactly should an occupying army expect in your scheme of things?
You confuse me. I can understand being against Israel's aggressions, as I was, I thought they went overboard. But your praise for Hezbollah and the Chechen rebels is strange. You think Israel fighting from F16's is cowardly, but you think a group like the Chechens, that take over elementary schools, theatres, and hospitals are warriors? You obviously arent really concerned with innocent civilians dieing, your only concerned with those that die at the hands of the Israeli's. You can believe that both sides are out of line ya know. Its not a sporting event, you dont have to cheer for one side over the other.
Check out the woman stomping on the corpse.
Ah, some more innocent, non-violent victims illustrating their deep desire for love and peace:rolleyes:
Nothing says Love and Peace, like a good afternoon torture, lyncing, and murdering. Not to mention all the love and peace involved in stomping and brutalizing of a dead human body.
Where can I get me some love and peace, like that?:rolleyes:
I am seriously asking you how old you are. I just want to get a handle on what kind of education and life experience you've had.
People on here post time and again about your lack of credibility, yet you continue to argue with the logic that borders on insantity.
- We claim that Hezbollah are cowards because they hide behind civillians and purposely target civillians.
- You respond by saying Hezbollah are warriors because they don't have modern arms.
Are you kidding me? They don't have modern arms becuase they are incapable of producing a societey that can create modern arms like tanks and helicopters.
That comment says more about your obvious racism that about anything else.
I didn't say israel were the sole catalyst of the conflict. Why make shit up?
Clearly there isn't an objective or realistic bone in his body.
His reasoning is absurd and highy flooded in double-standards and bias.
Could you expand on this anthropological argument please?
Do you think "these people" still ive in tents in the desert, riding camels playing with swords?
"Incapabale of producing a society.." Hey, stop right there buddy, I think you've nailed your "Muslims are inferior," colours to the mast with that one.
Jeez. What happedned to equality and fraternity, eh? Must only apply to those in the "in" racist, American, Imperialist crowd.
Two words: Civil Rights.
Don't these rights apply to ALL human beings around the globe?
Then what was your point with that sentence?
I've written you off buddy... you aren't worth it. The only people you're going to influence are those that are more stupid than you - so I'm not too concerned about it.
Hezbollah is not Nazi Germany they need to be dealt with differently...to defeat Hezbollah you must win the people...Israel choose to go against the people (I hope their intent was not to and I will treat it at that) by waging war in their homes....therefore ultimately they did lose....next time they should realize fighting will not win over the people....like I said in many posts since last week...major concessions need to be made....something needs to sway the negative opinion and that will take work from both sides...yes it requires more brains than brute force and yes it will requires patientce....but if both sides can get over their inflated ego's and listen to what EACH OTHER desire they may have a better idea on what is going on in the brain of the enemy....and hopefully may find a more constructive way to deal with things instead of killing those that want no war.....
I didn't say that Hizbollah were warriors because they don't have modern arms. I said they were warriors because they are tough muthafuckers. Your last sentence would be laughable if wasn't indicative of your racism.
Like I said, I wasnt in favor of Israel's actions and I do think they went over board. But at the same time, that certainly doesnt mean I am going to praise Hezbollah, or even worse the Chechens. Im not going to play the hypocrite card and condemn Israel for killing civilians, and then turn around and cheer on other groups that also kill civilians.
What about the Chechens, why are they warriors?
Could you highlight the double standards please?
And really, what that guy said above about cheering sides and all that, true, of course, but in answer to the "cowards" comment above, If the IDF stopped hiding behind Planes and artillery, and took a thousand of their best men, and put them against a thousand of Hezbollah freedom fighters, same equipment, I know whose my money would be on.
Those who use bombs and planes are cowards,
And in steps silverstain...
Thanks for proving my point.... Islamic fundamentalist don't believe in civil rights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why would try to call me out for stating the obvioius??? Jesus fucking tap dancing Christ..... why don't you get mad at them for not HAVING civil rights??????
Islamic fundamentalist do not want to create a society that promotes and encourages the institutions or the environment that fosters education and equality.
They do not support higher education on the level that will produce the knoweldge (science, engineering, balistics, etc...) necessary to build helicopters and precision munisions.....
Unfucking believable!!!!!!
I have a feeling I'm going to get banned again...it seems that every time this guy enters a thread, the thread gets closed and I find that my posting privileges are gone.
Exactly.
Some simply don't comprehend such thought processes and ideals.
That is why you must win the people....not kill the people....easy concept but no one wants to go to great lengths to help those over there that are not invovled in Fundanutalism....the only the way the West believes to get the support is through weapons and once with Iraq...now with Lebanon...it has failed...new strategy needed....win over the people with non-militaristic means...show them actual freedom...lead the people of these nations to take Fundanutalism down ...the West will never beat these guys...it will take their own people to defeat them.....
Maybe it our ego that prevents us from doing that....
Please read......
The Morning After the Morning After
by Thomas L. Friedman
With every war there are two days to keep in mind when the guns fall silent: the morning after, and the morning after the morning after. America, Israel and all those who want to see Lebanon’s democracy revived need to keep their eyes focused on the morning after the morning after.
Here’s why.
The only way that the fighting in south Lebanon will be brought to a close is if all the parties accept a cease-fire and the imposition of a robust international peacekeeping force, led by France, along the Israel-Lebanon border — supplanting Hezbollah.
The morning after that cease-fire goes into effect, everyone knows what will happen: Hezbollah’s leader, Hassan Nasrallah — no matter how battered his forces and how much damage his reckless war has visited on Lebanon — will crawl out of his bunker and declare a “great victory.” Hezbollah, he will say, fought the Israeli Army to a standstill inside Lebanon and rained rockets on northern Israel. Meanwhile, military analysts everywhere will write that Israel has “lost its deterrence” vis-à-vis Arab forces, and blah, blah, blah.
Sorry, been there, heard that, and I don’t buy it. What matters in war, alas, is the balance of destruction on the ground and the political weight it exerts over time.
On the morning after the morning after, Lebanese war refugees, who had real jobs and homes, will start streaming back by the hundreds of thousands, many of them Shiites. Tragically, they will find their homes or businesses badly damaged or obliterated. Yes, they will curse Israel. But they and other Arabs will also start asking Nasrallah publicly what many are already asking privately:
“What was this war all about? What did we get from this and at what price? Israel has some roofs to repair and some dead to bury. But its economy and state are fully intact, and it will recover quickly. We Lebanese have been set back by a decade. Our economy and our democracy lie in ruins, like our homes. For what? For a one-week boost in ‘Arab honor?’ So that Iran could distract the world’s attention from its nuclear program? You did all this to us for another country?”
As Michael Young, opinion editor of The Beirut Daily Star, put it an article in Slate: “Hezbollah’s ... test will be to rapidly alleviate the suffering in its own community and, therefore, avoid losing its base. The party still has substantial backing among its coreligionists, and it is not about to see this disappear. But soon the fate of the hundreds of thousands of Shiites now living in schools, tent cities, and even public parks will be an overriding concern for Nasrallah. Many have fled areas partly or wholly destroyed, to which they might not return for months or years. ... Hezbollah will have to provide funding for reconstruction and rehabilitation that is likely to run into the billions of dollars. ... The party will have a monumental task to revive not only Shiite morale but confidence that Hezbollah can take care of its own. ... Even the party’s most optimistic interpretation of the current war — that it is a heroic achievement — will not spare it having to tiptoe very carefully through Shiite trauma.”
Moreover, if and when a French-led international force is placed along the Israel-Lebanon border, it will be a big loss for Hezbollah. The Shiite militia will no longer be able to directly touch Israel and start a war for Iran or Syria whenever it chooses. And, if Hezbollah tried to lob missiles over the peacekeeping zone, or penetrate it, it would clash with forces from France, Italy and Turkey, the likely peacekeepers. That means Hezbollah, Iran and Syria would not be able to hurt Israel without also hurting their own relations with the European Union.
Israel needs to keep its eyes on the prize. It’s already inflicted enormous damage on Hezbollah and its community, but Nasrallah will only have to pay the full price for inviting all that destruction once the guns fall silent on the morning after the morning after. So let’s get there as soon as possible. That will deter him. What would deter him even more, though, would be if the U.N. would go ahead and impose sanctions on Iran for its illicit nuclear bomb program. After all, it was Iran, Nasrallah’s master, that ordered up this war to distract the U.N. from doing just that. It would be nice to say to Iran: You ravaged Hezbollah for nothing.
Beyond those two limited objectives, there’s no storybook ending for Israel in Lebanon, and it shouldn’t throw more good lives after some elusive knockout blow. It’s just not that kind of neighborhood. As they say in the movies, “Forget it, Jake. It’s Chinatown.”
At what point did I 'align myself with such a group'? As for terrorism, how do Israels actions not qualify as terrorism?
If you consider Israel's actions as terrorism that is fine and you can certainly make that argument. But, why do you consider Israel terrorists, but Hezbollah and the Chechnyan rebels as warriors?
Gee, I don't know. Could it be when you cheered like a giddy school girl that Hezbollah somehow "whooped" the Israeli army's ass?
I won't address your "Israeli actions qualify as terrorism" argument. It's tired and weak, and I've argued against it way too many times already.
I love it. "You live in Israel. What the fuck do you know?" I'd say living in the war zone makes me a bit more privy to what's going on than you. My being in Israel does not, as you imply, preclude me from exposure to the rags that are the BBC, the Guardian, and the Independent. I could bring down these boards if I posted every article by the media watchdog group CAMERA on the bias and outright hostility towards Israel in the British media.
no, my induction date is in march. please, do me a favor and join the ISM after then. or better yet, join your heroes in hezbollah. be the third british national in as many years to murder israelis!
it's my confirming a fact which you can't stand, that i'm a proud jew and an unapologetic zionist. i'm glad my mere existence in my homeland offends you so much.
actually, i hate my government right now. i can't wait for early elections so olmert and the rest of those incompetent bastards can get thrown out on their asses. the idf fought this entire war with one hand tied behind its back, and for the first time it's not america's or the un's fault. it's our own leaders' fault.
to many people here it may seem like the israel-supporters blindly defend everything israel does. that is not the case. it's just that 99.99999999999%, hell, 100% of the "criticism" of israel on this board is ignorant, licentious, or just plain hate-speech.
for meaningful discourse on israel and zionism i talk to people with at least some background knowledge on the topic. i mainly only read posts here now because of some masochistic thrill that comes with encountering the depths of hopeless ignoramuses and moral cripples such as yourself.
Most antizionists are antisemites
No! You are Unfucking believable!!!!!