2. you really think eddie vedder is a greater american than ronald reagan? if it weren't for the latter, the last bastion of conservatism would be gone...he was single handedly responsible for a political realignment and the rebirth of conservative values...
but yeah...eddie vedder really cares about stuff...what an intellectual
you really think eddie vedder is a greater american than ronald reagan?
I actually just want to place the above quote on it's own here. I think you need to think carefully about what exactly you have said here.
You have just stated that you believe Ronald Reagan to be a better American than Eddie Vedder.
I'm gonna chew on this for a while. It's like a whelk to me - unpalatable, wrong, ugly, yet strangely intriguing.
Nope. That's exact the opposite of what I'm saying. Byrnzie's list is his own...it might be helpful if you at least say why you don't agree about the people he listed or list your own. But just saying how they aren't your idea greatness is pointless because it wasn't your list. If you add why you disagree and then list some people yourself we might could have a civil discussion. Imagine that.
aren't we in a civil discussion?
i didn't say they weren't "great" i said they were liberals...they ARE liberals. and not very smart liberals...i mean...eddie vedder? as a top 20 all time american? are you SERIOUS?
i've posted here long enough that the left has NO DESIRE of hearing the other side. at all. so i don't need a lecture on how i need to hear the other side. i'm resigned to the post of pointing out idiocy.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
but yeah...eddie vedder really cares about stuff...what an intellectual
... ?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I actually just want to place the above quote on it's own here. I think you need to think carefully about what exactly you have said here.
You have just stated that you believe Ronald Reagan to be a better American that Eddie Vedder.
I'm gonna chew on this for a while. It's like a whelk to me - unpalatable, wrong, ugly, yet strangely intriguing.
damn straight yo....very enlightening
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
i didn't say they weren't "great" i said they were liberals...they ARE liberals. and not very smart liberals...i mean...eddie vedder? as a top 20 all time american? are you SERIOUS?
i've posted here long enough that the left has NO DESIRE of hearing the other side. at all. so i don't need a lecture on how i need to hear the other side. i'm resigned to the post of pointing out idiocy.
Yes, being civil always includes pointing out another's idiocy. Have fun with that.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I agree with Purple Hawk here. even if we were to name the 20 most important American musicians, Vedder wouldn't be on my list.
that's because eddie vedder et al aren't very smart when it comes to politics. i'm only speaking the truth, and the truth hurts sometimes
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
The forum is awesome. You guys will argue, I mean debate, over anything.
"My favorite sandwich is bologna and ketchup."
"You cannot be serious! How did you forget about turkey? "
"Come on, its got to be PBJ!"
"Are you stupid? Its definately a spamwich."
"Saddam liked spamwiches, that makes you a traitor communist terrorist in it for the oil."
awesome...
This is why we keep coming back. This forum is actually like a tuna, mayo and sweetcorn sandwich to me. I'm addicted. Maybe there should be a rehab clinic for those addicted to the M.T?
I'll be the first in line.
Yes, being civil always includes pointing out another's idiocy. Have fun with that.
no, being civil apparently means that conservatism = ideology of hate...have fun believing that...it'll get you far.
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
This is why we keep coming back. This forum is actually like a tuna, mayo and sweetcorn sandwich to me. I'm addicted. Maybe there should be a rehab clinic for those addicted to the M.T?
I'll be the first in line.
Word. I picture you all being professors or wanna be professors wearing your cord suits with the elbow patches and no rim glasses and shit, or, dressed like militant soldiers waiting for the revolution to start.
All spittin hot fire.
All that's sacred, comes from youth....dedications, naive and true.
He was more than just a boxer. You should check out the Ken Burns documentary on him.
He was the first black american heavyweight. He fought years of prejudice and mistreatment from the authorities. He was one of the first and the biggest symbols of black freedom and independence in America. He was the Mohammed Ali of his age, and Ali himself was greatly influenced by him with regards to his political ideas, his braggadocio ways, his pride in his race, e.t.c.
Basically he seems like any other respectable black man on the planet. If he weren't a boxer, he would be nothing. Come on. Was Jack Johnson the only black man to overcome prejudice and mistreatment? The fact of the matter is, he was just a respectable guy that also punched people. I'd put him in the top 100, but top 20?
I guess I was thinking in terms of a well-rounded human being, and a positive force in the world.
well, being a "pioneering musician" and being a "well-rounded human" usually don't go in the same breath. here's a list of US musicians I think are pretty important.........
Hendrix
Robert Johnson
Hank Williams
Patsy Cline
Ray Charles
Cash
Dylan
Elvis
Van Halen
whoever invented rap
Madonna
Michael Jackson
Cobain (yep, Vedder's still in his shadow)
the Ramones
Metallica
Beastie Boys
Beach Boys
etc.
that's a pretty influential list and if you think about, pretty much all of them are fuckups, way moreso that Vedder. and they've all been a definite force on the world (whether positive or negative)
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
I guess I was thinking in terms of a well-rounded human being, and a positive force in the world.
you certainly have the pulse of the heartland of America...I mean, who amongst us hasn't thought to ourselves...what would eddie vedder think?
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
seriously? who would you bump off the list? eddie, noam, or HST? I mean...all 4 are pretty much on the same landscape!
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Basically he seems like any other respectable black man on the planet. If he weren't a boxer, he would be nothing. Come on. Was Jack Johnson the only black man to overcome prejudice and mistreatment? The fact of the matter is, he was just a respectable guy that also punched people. I'd put him in the top 100, but top 20?
He seems like '...any other respectable black man on the planet'?
Really?
http://www.amazon.com/Unforgivable-Blackness-Rise-Fall-Johnson/dp/B0006FO8IY/ref=pd_bbs_1/105-1227368-6394816?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1184039059&sr=1-1
Amazon.com
Ken Burns's documentary style is so unencumbered; the subject matter is effortlessly presented. His regular mix of photos, subtle sound effects, excellent musical score, and actor readings of historical text hasn't changed since his breakthrough of The Civil War. And it doesn't need to. Even though this 220-minute production is a biography--on heavyweight champion Jack Johnson--the film resonates about the how race was dealt with in the early part of the 20th century. Four decades after the Emancipation, the American black was still struggling to find elementary terms of equality. Along came a strong and headstrong man who took on sport decades before Jackie Robinson and became the key figure in heavyweight fighting, a champion against the longest odds.
Samuel L. Jackson voices Johnson's words with great verve and helps create an absorbing picture of Johnson along with various historians and boxing experts laying down the tale of the tape. Here's a man so smart and patient in the ring who took great liberties in his day-to-day life, unafraid to showcase his success, and ruffle the morals of the time (including, most scandalously, marrying a white woman). Viewing film of his prizefights, the amateur eye can understand Johnson's style and bravura. Burns's certainly takes his time and, as usual, has a vast awry of facts of how the world reacted to news of Johnson's success and the conspiracy which led to his downfall. The highlight, natch, are two of Johnson's epic fights near the end of his reign as champ (and the search for a "Great White Hope"). The appearance of James Earl Jones (who won a Tony for his portrayal of Johnson in 1959) and Wynton Marsalis's musical score are grand touches. --Doug Thomas
The "Fight of the Century"
Johnson's fight against Jeffries, 1910.
In 1910 former heavyweight champion James J. Jeffries came out of retirement and said, "I am going into this fight for the sole purpose of proving that a white man is better than a Negro."[2] Jeffries had not fought in 6 years and had to lose around 100 pounds to try to get back to his championship fighting weight.
At the fight, which took place on July 4, 1910 in front of 22,000 people, at a ring built just for the occasion in downtown Reno, Nevada, the ringside band played, "All coons look alike to me". The fight had become a hotbed of racial tension, and the promoters incited the all-white crowd to chant "kill the nigger".[3] Johnson, however, proved stronger and more nimble than Jeffries. In the 15th round, after he had been knocked down twice for the first time in his career, Jeffries' people called it quits to prevent Johnson from knocking him out.
The "Fight of the Century" earned Johnson $225,000 and silenced the critics, who had belittled Johnson's previous victory over Tommy Burns as "empty", claiming that Burns was a false champion since Jeffries had retired undefeated.
[edit] Riots and Aftermath
The outcome of the fight triggered race riots that evening — the Fourth of July — all across the United States, from Texas and Colorado to New York and Washington, D.C. Johnson's victory over Jeffries had dashed white dreams of a finding a "great white hope" to defeat him. Many whites felt humiliated by the defeat of Jeffries and were incensed by Johnson's comments.
...At least 23 blacks and 2 whites died in the riots, and hundreds more were injured. A few white people were injured when they tried to intervene in a crowd's beating of a black man.
...Johnson flouted conventions regarding the social and economic "place" of African Americans in American society. As a black man, he broke a powerful taboo in consorting with white women, and would verbally taunt men (both white and black) inside and outside the ring. Johnson was not shy about his affection for white women, nor modest about his physical prowess, both in and out of the ring. Asked the secret of his staying power by a reporter who had watched a succession of women parade into, and out of, the champion's hotel room, Johnson supposedly said, "Eat jellied eels and think distant thoughts."
Legacy
Johnson was inducted into the Boxing Hall of Fame in 1954, and is on the roster of both the International Boxing Hall of Fame and the World Boxing Hall of Fame. In 2005, the United States National Film Preservation Board deemed the film of the 1910 Johnson-Jeffries fight "historically significant" and put it in the National Film Registry.
Johnson's story is the basis of the play and subsequent 1970 movie, The Great White Hope, starring James Earl Jones as Johnson (known as Jack Jefferson in the movie), and Jane Alexander as his love interest. In 2005, filmmaker Ken Burns produced a 2-part documentary about Johnson's life, Unforgivable Blackness: The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson, based on the 2004 nonfiction book of the same name by Geoffrey C. Ward.
Johnson's skill as a fighter and the money that it brought made it impossible for him to be ignored by the white establishment. In a time in which African-Americans enjoyed few civil rights and in which lynching was an accepted extra-legal means of social coercion in many parts of the United States, his success and defiant behavior were a serious threat to the racist status quo. In the short term, the boxing world reacted against Johnson's legacy. Joe Louis, later, was not able to box for the heavyweight title until he proved he could "act white," and was warned against gloating over fallen opponents or having his picture taken with a white woman.[1] But Johnson foreshadowed, in many ways, perhaps the most famous boxer of all time, Muhammad Ali. In fact, Ali often spoke of how he was influenced by Jack Johnson. He identified with him because he felt white America ostracized him in the same manner because of his opposition to the war in Vietnam. In his autobiography, Ali relates how he and Joe Frazier agreed that Johnson and Joe Louis were the greatest boxers of old.
41st street in Galveston, Texas is named "Jack Johnson Blvd." after the Galveston Giant himself!'
Like I said, JJ could punch people. He beat a semi-retired white supremacist... it's great that he won, but did he change the world by punching a white guy? I guess so, as you article shows.
It's a top 20 list. That's a lot of people who can't be on the list. Sorry if I don't think a boxer can change the world. IMO there was at least one man who did more than any other, which was WEB DuBois. He also had a pretty impressive resume, imo:
I admit I don't know everything about civil rights history. But come on, a boxer? He didn't lead rallies, he punched people. I think he's great but there are some who are greater.
Like I said, JJ could punch people. He beat a semi-retired white supremacist... it's great that he won, but did he change the world by punching a white guy? I guess so, as you article shows.
It's a top 20 list. That's a lot of people who can't be on the list. Sorry if I don't think a boxer can change the world. IMO there was at least one man who did more than any other, which was WEB DuBois. He also had a pretty impressive resume, imo:
I admit I don't know everything about civil rights history. But come on, a boxer? He didn't lead rallies, he punched people. I think he's great but there are some who are greater.
I agree. Dubois could make my list, for sure.
In the meantime, check out the Ken Burns film about JJ. It's an eye opener.
You may say that Mohammed Ali just punched people too. We all know that's not the full picture. And things were a lot tougher in Johnsons day. He was just as abrasive, comical and rebellious as Ali during a time when half the U.S population wanted to see him hanging from a tree. The man was a great human being and a powerful force for change and for hope amongst black Americans at the turn of the century. He would have excelled in our own time - with our modern day cult of celebrity, and media e.t.c. Again, he still managed to shine way back then, and against all the odds.
Cool list, Byrnzie. Apparently some people here think your views are supposed to reflect their own. Maybe they'll learn to grasp the concept of differing perspectives one of these days.
I understand the concept and it is good to have differing perspectives, but it is hard to take a thread seriously when the poster includes Bill Hicks, Eddie Vedder, Malcolm X and no mention of MLK, etc..... It is not worth it to have a discussion where you are trying to convince someone that Ben Franklin was a greater American than Bill Hicks. That should never even have to be discussed.
It's like someone saying "The three darkest colors are yellow, pink, and white." How are you supposed to respond to that? "Well, actually I think the three of the darkest colors are black, brown, and purple." No way.
Comments
One word: Nicaragua.
do I like Jackson or Madonna? hell no. but it's undeniable that they've both had an impact on pop culture in the US.
also, I forgot about Van Halen.
Andy Griffith, Lucille Ball, or Jerry Seinfeld would also be 3 names that are big in American pop culture.
I actually just want to place the above quote on it's own here. I think you need to think carefully about what exactly you have said here.
You have just stated that you believe Ronald Reagan to be a better American than Eddie Vedder.
I'm gonna chew on this for a while. It's like a whelk to me - unpalatable, wrong, ugly, yet strangely intriguing.
aren't we in a civil discussion?
i didn't say they weren't "great" i said they were liberals...they ARE liberals. and not very smart liberals...i mean...eddie vedder? as a top 20 all time american? are you SERIOUS?
i've posted here long enough that the left has NO DESIRE of hearing the other side. at all. so i don't need a lecture on how i need to hear the other side. i'm resigned to the post of pointing out idiocy.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
... ?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
damn straight yo....very enlightening
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
"My favorite sandwich is bologna and ketchup."
"You cannot be serious! How did you forget about turkey? "
"Come on, its got to be PBJ!"
"Are you stupid? Its definately a spamwich."
"Saddam liked spamwiches, that makes you a traitor communist terrorist in it for the oil."
awesome...
Why hold back Roland? Let em have it!
Yes, being civil always includes pointing out another's idiocy. Have fun with that.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
that's because eddie vedder et al aren't very smart when it comes to politics. i'm only speaking the truth, and the truth hurts sometimes
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
This is why we keep coming back. This forum is actually like a tuna, mayo and sweetcorn sandwich to me. I'm addicted. Maybe there should be a rehab clinic for those addicted to the M.T?
I'll be the first in line.
no, being civil apparently means that conservatism = ideology of hate...have fun believing that...it'll get you far.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
I guess I was thinking in terms of a well-rounded human being, and a positive force in the world.
Umm okaay.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
All spittin hot fire.
Basically he seems like any other respectable black man on the planet. If he weren't a boxer, he would be nothing. Come on. Was Jack Johnson the only black man to overcome prejudice and mistreatment? The fact of the matter is, he was just a respectable guy that also punched people. I'd put him in the top 100, but top 20?
well, being a "pioneering musician" and being a "well-rounded human" usually don't go in the same breath. here's a list of US musicians I think are pretty important.........
Hendrix
Robert Johnson
Hank Williams
Patsy Cline
Ray Charles
Cash
Dylan
Elvis
Van Halen
whoever invented rap
Madonna
Michael Jackson
Cobain (yep, Vedder's still in his shadow)
the Ramones
Metallica
Beastie Boys
Beach Boys
etc.
that's a pretty influential list and if you think about, pretty much all of them are fuckups, way moreso that Vedder. and they've all been a definite force on the world (whether positive or negative)
i'm gonna fight you!
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
your fucking crazy...
you certainly have the pulse of the heartland of America...I mean, who amongst us hasn't thought to ourselves...what would eddie vedder think?
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
seriously? who would you bump off the list? eddie, noam, or HST? I mean...all 4 are pretty much on the same landscape!
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
He seems like '...any other respectable black man on the planet'?
Really?
http://www.amazon.com/Unforgivable-Blackness-Rise-Fall-Johnson/dp/B0006FO8IY/ref=pd_bbs_1/105-1227368-6394816?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1184039059&sr=1-1
Amazon.com
Ken Burns's documentary style is so unencumbered; the subject matter is effortlessly presented. His regular mix of photos, subtle sound effects, excellent musical score, and actor readings of historical text hasn't changed since his breakthrough of The Civil War. And it doesn't need to. Even though this 220-minute production is a biography--on heavyweight champion Jack Johnson--the film resonates about the how race was dealt with in the early part of the 20th century. Four decades after the Emancipation, the American black was still struggling to find elementary terms of equality. Along came a strong and headstrong man who took on sport decades before Jackie Robinson and became the key figure in heavyweight fighting, a champion against the longest odds.
Samuel L. Jackson voices Johnson's words with great verve and helps create an absorbing picture of Johnson along with various historians and boxing experts laying down the tale of the tape. Here's a man so smart and patient in the ring who took great liberties in his day-to-day life, unafraid to showcase his success, and ruffle the morals of the time (including, most scandalously, marrying a white woman). Viewing film of his prizefights, the amateur eye can understand Johnson's style and bravura. Burns's certainly takes his time and, as usual, has a vast awry of facts of how the world reacted to news of Johnson's success and the conspiracy which led to his downfall. The highlight, natch, are two of Johnson's epic fights near the end of his reign as champ (and the search for a "Great White Hope"). The appearance of James Earl Jones (who won a Tony for his portrayal of Johnson in 1959) and Wynton Marsalis's musical score are grand touches. --Doug Thomas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Johnson_%28boxer%29
The "Fight of the Century"
Johnson's fight against Jeffries, 1910.
In 1910 former heavyweight champion James J. Jeffries came out of retirement and said, "I am going into this fight for the sole purpose of proving that a white man is better than a Negro."[2] Jeffries had not fought in 6 years and had to lose around 100 pounds to try to get back to his championship fighting weight.
At the fight, which took place on July 4, 1910 in front of 22,000 people, at a ring built just for the occasion in downtown Reno, Nevada, the ringside band played, "All coons look alike to me". The fight had become a hotbed of racial tension, and the promoters incited the all-white crowd to chant "kill the nigger".[3] Johnson, however, proved stronger and more nimble than Jeffries. In the 15th round, after he had been knocked down twice for the first time in his career, Jeffries' people called it quits to prevent Johnson from knocking him out.
The "Fight of the Century" earned Johnson $225,000 and silenced the critics, who had belittled Johnson's previous victory over Tommy Burns as "empty", claiming that Burns was a false champion since Jeffries had retired undefeated.
[edit] Riots and Aftermath
The outcome of the fight triggered race riots that evening — the Fourth of July — all across the United States, from Texas and Colorado to New York and Washington, D.C. Johnson's victory over Jeffries had dashed white dreams of a finding a "great white hope" to defeat him. Many whites felt humiliated by the defeat of Jeffries and were incensed by Johnson's comments.
...At least 23 blacks and 2 whites died in the riots, and hundreds more were injured. A few white people were injured when they tried to intervene in a crowd's beating of a black man.
...Johnson flouted conventions regarding the social and economic "place" of African Americans in American society. As a black man, he broke a powerful taboo in consorting with white women, and would verbally taunt men (both white and black) inside and outside the ring. Johnson was not shy about his affection for white women, nor modest about his physical prowess, both in and out of the ring. Asked the secret of his staying power by a reporter who had watched a succession of women parade into, and out of, the champion's hotel room, Johnson supposedly said, "Eat jellied eels and think distant thoughts."
Legacy
Johnson was inducted into the Boxing Hall of Fame in 1954, and is on the roster of both the International Boxing Hall of Fame and the World Boxing Hall of Fame. In 2005, the United States National Film Preservation Board deemed the film of the 1910 Johnson-Jeffries fight "historically significant" and put it in the National Film Registry.
Johnson's story is the basis of the play and subsequent 1970 movie, The Great White Hope, starring James Earl Jones as Johnson (known as Jack Jefferson in the movie), and Jane Alexander as his love interest. In 2005, filmmaker Ken Burns produced a 2-part documentary about Johnson's life, Unforgivable Blackness: The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson, based on the 2004 nonfiction book of the same name by Geoffrey C. Ward.
Johnson's skill as a fighter and the money that it brought made it impossible for him to be ignored by the white establishment. In a time in which African-Americans enjoyed few civil rights and in which lynching was an accepted extra-legal means of social coercion in many parts of the United States, his success and defiant behavior were a serious threat to the racist status quo. In the short term, the boxing world reacted against Johnson's legacy. Joe Louis, later, was not able to box for the heavyweight title until he proved he could "act white," and was warned against gloating over fallen opponents or having his picture taken with a white woman.[1] But Johnson foreshadowed, in many ways, perhaps the most famous boxer of all time, Muhammad Ali. In fact, Ali often spoke of how he was influenced by Jack Johnson. He identified with him because he felt white America ostracized him in the same manner because of his opposition to the war in Vietnam. In his autobiography, Ali relates how he and Joe Frazier agreed that Johnson and Joe Louis were the greatest boxers of old.
41st street in Galveston, Texas is named "Jack Johnson Blvd." after the Galveston Giant himself!'
It's a top 20 list. That's a lot of people who can't be on the list. Sorry if I don't think a boxer can change the world. IMO there was at least one man who did more than any other, which was WEB DuBois. He also had a pretty impressive resume, imo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WEB_DuBois
I admit I don't know everything about civil rights history. But come on, a boxer? He didn't lead rallies, he punched people. I think he's great but there are some who are greater.
I agree. Dubois could make my list, for sure.
In the meantime, check out the Ken Burns film about JJ. It's an eye opener.
You may say that Mohammed Ali just punched people too. We all know that's not the full picture. And things were a lot tougher in Johnsons day. He was just as abrasive, comical and rebellious as Ali during a time when half the U.S population wanted to see him hanging from a tree. The man was a great human being and a powerful force for change and for hope amongst black Americans at the turn of the century. He would have excelled in our own time - with our modern day cult of celebrity, and media e.t.c. Again, he still managed to shine way back then, and against all the odds.
I understand the concept and it is good to have differing perspectives, but it is hard to take a thread seriously when the poster includes Bill Hicks, Eddie Vedder, Malcolm X and no mention of MLK, etc..... It is not worth it to have a discussion where you are trying to convince someone that Ben Franklin was a greater American than Bill Hicks. That should never even have to be discussed.
It's like someone saying "The three darkest colors are yellow, pink, and white." How are you supposed to respond to that? "Well, actually I think the three of the darkest colors are black, brown, and purple." No way.
Them's fightin' words!