And anyone assaulting someone unnecessarily is also a criminal. The theft of the liquor doesn't not justify inhumane treatment.
here's the catch: it wasn't inhumane treatment.
abook, i really do enjoy your posts and respect the way you hold true to your beliefs. but on this one, you're just off base. there was nothing inhumane about that.
"PC Load Letter?! What the fuck does that mean?"
~Michael Bolton
abook, i really do enjoy your posts and respect the way you hold true to your beliefs. but on this one, you're just off base. there was nothing inhumane about that.
Well thank you for the kind words, moe. I just disagree on this and I guess the only place we can go from here is to agree on disagreeing.
Now I'm through arguing this with you heartless, lesser evolved bruts! Kidding
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And anyone assaulting someone unnecessarily is also a criminal. The theft of the liquor doesn't not justify inhumane treatment.
Where was the inhumane treatment? Tackling someone is inhumane?
Do you believe in consequences for bad behavior?
Seriously, how does this guy suffer the consequences of his behavior. Under your thinking, he can steal a bottle of liquor everday. Think about it. He comes in and steals some liquor, security stops him, but he puts up a fight, and since you don't belive in "inhumane" treatment, security lets him go, because it is only a beer.
The next day the guy comes in, and security tells him he has to leave. But first the guy grabs a bottle and "puts up another fight" and so again, according to you, security lets him go because it is only a beer. You see where I'm going with this? It could go on until the day the thief dies.
Then you say, call the police. But again, if the guy resists arrest, and you don't believe he should be subdued, then he'll just fight his way away from the police. You obviously don't believe in guns, so the cops can't use that as a deterrent. And if you believe tackling someones is inhumane, a stun gun isn't in order. So, the guy can steal his liquor and food everyday, and if you were in charge of security, would get away with it.
come on, you can't be serious? you have over 5k posts, and you don't recognize sarcasm?
saying the west isn't civilized because of how someone was apprehended (only a sissy would complain like that shoplifter did) is one of the most rediculous things i've read here.
it was more a comment on people on this thread saying the guy got what he deserved. we have laws, police, a judicial system for a reason, so that if people break the law they are delt with in a fair way. for a guy to be beaten up for stealing and then for people on this board to applaude it i think is awful. not a day goes by when someone is bitching about how cruel muslims are but this is just the same. so the guy stole something, big fucking deal. it wasnt like he was fucking children or raping women.
A lot of the time, these shoplifters are selling goods on for drugs, to fences who never get so much as a broken fingernail. Such is the cruelty of the black market, that the most vulnerable people in this chain of organised crime would get a kicking from moronic security guards, while the real scum never get as much as a reprimand, from the real police.
it was more a comment on people on this thread saying the guy got what he deserved. we have laws, police, a judicial system for a reason, so that if people break the law they are delt with in a fair way. for a guy to be beaten up for stealing and then for people on this board to applaude it i think is awful. not a day goes by when someone is bitching about how cruel muslims are but this is just the same. so the guy stole something, big fucking deal. it wasnt like he was fucking children or raping women.
He wasn't beat up! The guys were just sitting on top of him to keep him there before the police came. There were two "punches," which had no velocity to them (they wouldn't even have left a bruise). We are glad because unlike you, we believe that those who break laws should be punished. If this would have happened 50 years ago, the guy would have gotten his ass kicked (deservedly so). Our greatest generation. Old school. I love it. We turned into a bunch of pussies.
I bet you hate trial lawyers, but for some reason you take the criminal's side everytime. The guy was stealing alcohol, has no respect, and either should have gotten a bat to the head from the cashier or gotten an ass kicking from security. He got neither, which is the injustice here.
Damn, these mall security guards went well beyond what they are allowed. No security officer is ever allowed in any state to punch a shoplifter in the face while hes being restrained. Those guys are going to get sued and charged with assault and battery.
Dude, if there is anything that I hate more than pig headed, control freak, big bad billy tough guy police officers who fly way over board when their adrenaline gets flowing....is mall security rent-a-fucking-cops who also suffer from the same affliction that the aforementioned police officers suffer from.
It was good to hear some guy questioning the security guards decisions and actions. I would have as well.
Dude, if there is anything that I hate more than pig headed, control freak, big bad billy tough guy police officers who fly way over board when their adrenaline gets flowing....is mall security rent-a-fucking-cops who also suffer from the same affliction that the aforementioned police officers suffer from.
It was good to hear some guy questioning the security guards decisions and actions. I would have as well.
What should they have done? Let him run away? If so, then he could do it everyday and never get punished. People like you need to tag along with a police officer for a week in a bad neighborhood and see the things that have to deal with.
My brother's 70 year-old aunt (in-law) was mugged at 1:30 in the afternoon at a mall. People deserve a good beating, and the guy in this youtube clip did not get a beating.
But I really want to know what they should have done. If they were to just let him run away, what should they do when he comes back the next day? He's just going to run again. And if you don't think a rent-a-cop should tackle the guy, then calling the real cops ain't gonna change anything. If you aren't for tackling someone, then you aren't going to be for a stun gun. And the police aren't going to shoot someone over a beer, so they won't shoot him if he runs. So, in your world, he never gets punished. I want to live in the world you envisio, then i will never have to pay for food, and I'll have a nice plasma tv.
Dude, if there is anything that I hate more than pig headed, control freak, big bad billy tough guy police officers who fly way over board when their adrenaline gets flowing....is mall security rent-a-fucking-cops who also suffer from the same affliction that the aforementioned police officers suffer from.
It was good to hear some guy questioning the security guards decisions and actions. I would have as well.
Watch the video again, theres nothing there that identifies those guys as security or cops.
Right hippy, because tackling someone and subduing them after they committed a crime is uncivilized. That's what you fucking do to catch criminals.
What is this "court" you speak of? I am not aware of what you speak.
The court system of the United Kingdom. You'll find that, for all its faults, it's far superior to your average US, kangaroo court. Nothing to do with hippies, or Judge Judy, for that matter.
The court system of the United Kingdom. You'll find that, for all its faults, it's far superior to your average US, kangaroo court. Nothing to do with hippies, or Judge Judy, for that matter.
rediculous. the security guards did absolutely nothing wrong. the guy was resisting arrest. all the theif has to do is say ok, ok i give up. if the guards continue to to use the force they were using on him, then that is a different story, but overall, the theif was resisting arrest and the guards did nothing wrong.
reminds me of a friend of mine...well, not really a friend, but this guy i work with.
He lived in Vegas, had a heroine habit. he got caught trying steal some things, and what the security guards did to him was more on the lines of Rodney King than what the guy in the video had to deal with. They separated his shoulder, broke his collarbone, beat him down, with clubs, for ten minutes or so.
this was 2 years ago and he just got out of the hospital for reconstructive surgury on his shoulder, which he had to pay for. He's pressing charges but there's a good chance the security guards will get away with it...
rediculous. the security guards did absolutely nothing wrong. the guy was resisting arrest. all the theif has to do is say ok, ok i give up. if the guards continue to to use the force they were using on him, then that is a different story, but overall, the theif was resisting arrest and the guards did nothing wrong.
Resisting arrest? What kind of arrest? Citizen arrest?
reminds me of a friend of mine...well, not really a friend, but this guy i work with.
He lived in Vegas, had a heroine habit. he got caught trying steal some things, and what the security guards did to him was more on the lines of Rodney King than what the guy in the video had to deal with. They separated his shoulder, broke his collarbone, beat him down, with clubs, for ten minutes or so.
this was 2 years ago and he just got out of the hospital for reconstructive surgury on his shoulder, which he had to pay for. He's pressing charges but there's a good chance the security guards will get away with it...
That's so unfair. Who knew being a heroine addict/thief could get you into a situation like this. He had to pay for his own surgery? Wow, just unlucky I guess.
Sorry, life is about choices. Choices get you into and out of situations. I'm just tired of the criminal being the victim.
Seriously? You're saying that the rights of citizens, not found to be guilty in a court of law; not given due process of police arrest; not on the other end of charges; a first hearing; a trial; and then, finally a conviction, shouldn't be the concern of anyone "not involved" in the evident overstepping of "reasonable force", by security guards or, at worst, zealous vigilantes?
Seriously? You're saying that the rights of citizens, not found to be guilty in a court of law; not given due process of police arrest; not on the other end of charges; a first hearing; a trial; and then, finally a conviction, shouldn't be the concern of anyone "not involved" in the evident overstepping of "reasonable force", by security guards or, at worst, zealous vigilantes?
No, I was asking whether or not it mattered if the guys were police officers, plain-clothed security guards, or if the were only citizens.
Nobody overstepped "reasonable force" here. Actual police officers probably would have used their nightsticks and beat up the guy even more (which is okay) if he kept fighting back.
No, I was asking whether or not it mattered if the guys were police officers, plain-clothed security guards, or if the were only citizens.
Nobody overstepped "reasonable force" here. Actual police officers probably would have used their nightsticks and beat up the guy even more (which is okay).
which is against the law.
i doubt an officer would get away w/ standing on a guys ankles and legs and grinding their feet ontop of them.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
"The level of force officers are allowed to use when making arrests depends on the nature of the threat."
i don't think stealing 26oz of malt beer constitutes a total of 3 ppl holding a guy down after 1 punches him in the face and another basically stomps on his ankles and legs
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Chicago '98, Noblesville '00, East Troy '00, Chicago '00, Champaign '03, Chicago '03, Chicago1 '06, Chicago2 '06, Milwaukee '06, Chicago1 '09, and Chicago2 '09
Comments
here's the catch: it wasn't inhumane treatment.
abook, i really do enjoy your posts and respect the way you hold true to your beliefs. but on this one, you're just off base. there was nothing inhumane about that.
~Michael Bolton
i'm not like that with every issue. i'm just going with my gut on this one.
~Michael Bolton
Well thank you for the kind words, moe. I just disagree on this and I guess the only place we can go from here is to agree on disagreeing.
Now I'm through arguing this with you heartless, lesser evolved bruts!
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Where was the inhumane treatment? Tackling someone is inhumane?
Do you believe in consequences for bad behavior?
Seriously, how does this guy suffer the consequences of his behavior. Under your thinking, he can steal a bottle of liquor everday. Think about it. He comes in and steals some liquor, security stops him, but he puts up a fight, and since you don't belive in "inhumane" treatment, security lets him go, because it is only a beer.
The next day the guy comes in, and security tells him he has to leave. But first the guy grabs a bottle and "puts up another fight" and so again, according to you, security lets him go because it is only a beer. You see where I'm going with this? It could go on until the day the thief dies.
Then you say, call the police. But again, if the guy resists arrest, and you don't believe he should be subdued, then he'll just fight his way away from the police. You obviously don't believe in guns, so the cops can't use that as a deterrent. And if you believe tackling someones is inhumane, a stun gun isn't in order. So, the guy can steal his liquor and food everyday, and if you were in charge of security, would get away with it.
it was more a comment on people on this thread saying the guy got what he deserved. we have laws, police, a judicial system for a reason, so that if people break the law they are delt with in a fair way. for a guy to be beaten up for stealing and then for people on this board to applaude it i think is awful. not a day goes by when someone is bitching about how cruel muslims are but this is just the same. so the guy stole something, big fucking deal. it wasnt like he was fucking children or raping women.
http://www.myspace.com/thelastreel http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19604327965
Jeans, sweaters and tennis shoes isn't exactly a mall security uniform. These guys could have just been do-gooders. We don't know the full story here.
He wasn't beat up! The guys were just sitting on top of him to keep him there before the police came. There were two "punches," which had no velocity to them (they wouldn't even have left a bruise). We are glad because unlike you, we believe that those who break laws should be punished. If this would have happened 50 years ago, the guy would have gotten his ass kicked (deservedly so). Our greatest generation. Old school. I love it. We turned into a bunch of pussies.
I bet you hate trial lawyers, but for some reason you take the criminal's side everytime. The guy was stealing alcohol, has no respect, and either should have gotten a bat to the head from the cashier or gotten an ass kicking from security. He got neither, which is the injustice here.
It was good to hear some guy questioning the security guards decisions and actions. I would have as well.
What should they have done? Let him run away? If so, then he could do it everyday and never get punished. People like you need to tag along with a police officer for a week in a bad neighborhood and see the things that have to deal with.
My brother's 70 year-old aunt (in-law) was mugged at 1:30 in the afternoon at a mall. People deserve a good beating, and the guy in this youtube clip did not get a beating.
But I really want to know what they should have done. If they were to just let him run away, what should they do when he comes back the next day? He's just going to run again. And if you don't think a rent-a-cop should tackle the guy, then calling the real cops ain't gonna change anything. If you aren't for tackling someone, then you aren't going to be for a stun gun. And the police aren't going to shoot someone over a beer, so they won't shoot him if he runs. So, in your world, he never gets punished. I want to live in the world you envisio, then i will never have to pay for food, and I'll have a nice plasma tv.
Watch the video again, theres nothing there that identifies those guys as security or cops.
That'd be even worse. What kind of moron thinks that other people's corporate property is worth fighting over?
Or worse yet, what kind of moron cares if a shoplifter gets slapped in the face and tackled?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_recovery
Welcome to civilisation.
2000 : 9/4
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Right hippy, because tackling someone and subduing them after they committed a crime is uncivilized. That's what you fucking do to catch criminals.
What is this "court" you speak of? I am not aware of what you speak.
The court system of the United Kingdom. You'll find that, for all its faults, it's far superior to your average US, kangaroo court. Nothing to do with hippies, or Judge Judy, for that matter.
http://www.retailresearch.org/crime_and_fraud/retailers_compensation.php
haha, you said judge judy,...
~Ron Burgundy
He lived in Vegas, had a heroine habit. he got caught trying steal some things, and what the security guards did to him was more on the lines of Rodney King than what the guy in the video had to deal with. They separated his shoulder, broke his collarbone, beat him down, with clubs, for ten minutes or so.
this was 2 years ago and he just got out of the hospital for reconstructive surgury on his shoulder, which he had to pay for. He's pressing charges but there's a good chance the security guards will get away with it...
Resisting arrest? What kind of arrest? Citizen arrest?
Does it matter to you?
That's so unfair. Who knew being a heroine addict/thief could get you into a situation like this. He had to pay for his own surgery? Wow, just unlucky I guess.
Sorry, life is about choices. Choices get you into and out of situations. I'm just tired of the criminal being the victim.
ouch.
Is that meant to be a response?
Seriously? You're saying that the rights of citizens, not found to be guilty in a court of law; not given due process of police arrest; not on the other end of charges; a first hearing; a trial; and then, finally a conviction, shouldn't be the concern of anyone "not involved" in the evident overstepping of "reasonable force", by security guards or, at worst, zealous vigilantes?
No, I was asking whether or not it mattered if the guys were police officers, plain-clothed security guards, or if the were only citizens.
Nobody overstepped "reasonable force" here. Actual police officers probably would have used their nightsticks and beat up the guy even more (which is okay) if he kept fighting back.
which is against the law.
i doubt an officer would get away w/ standing on a guys ankles and legs and grinding their feet ontop of them.
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Subduing a criminal by a policeman is against what law?
Do you think the guy in this video was seriously hurt? If he was, he wouldn't have been putting up a fight.
they were NOT policemen, for one thing. and subduing the person is one thing, using unreasonable force is another, and yes, is against the law
from the fbi's own site
http://www.fbi.gov/publications/leb/1997/oct975.htm
"The level of force officers are allowed to use when making arrests depends on the nature of the threat."
i don't think stealing 26oz of malt beer constitutes a total of 3 ppl holding a guy down after 1 punches him in the face and another basically stomps on his ankles and legs
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way