Mall Security Beating Shoplifter (video)

FinsburyParkCarrots

bootlegger10 wrote:

No, I was asking whether or not it mattered if the guys were police officers, plain-clothed security guards, or if the were only citizens.

Nobody overstepped "reasonable force" here. Actual police officers probably would have used their nightsticks and beat up the guy even more (which is okay) if he kept fighting back.

Let's break this down, a bit, then.

Imagine a pub, where the licensee lives on the premises and, by law, has the right to refuse custom under any circumstances. He/she has the right to exercise reasonable force against a troublemaker, and get them off the premises. A good old left hook would count as reasonable force, too, as long as you didn't kill the fucker.

But if you employ a bouncer to exercise reasonable force on your behalf, you're approaching the grounds of liability, if the bouncer hasn't the sense to take the troublemaker off the premises before giving them a hiding. If a bouncer beats shit out of a drunk on the property, then things get awkward. It starts to look like an altercation, disproportionate to the initial "offence" of a drunk annoying people. If the attacked person wants to press criminal charges or sue civilly, they've a point to work on.

Now, imagine if a bunch of guys - customers - jumped on a drunk in a pub, on the premise that they claimed they saw him stealing a lady's handbag from the bar. We have a) a bunch of guys throwing their weight around and acting vigilante, b) the absence of management, which should have been there to control the situation from the outset. A suspected theft turns into an assault. Two wrongs, making a bigger wrong, and not a "right" redressing a wrong.

This pub analogy works in our case, because a store should be far more vigilant concerning troublemakers and thieves, seeing as it is usually equipped with cameras and store detectives, who could easily have installed beepers at the shop doors/security guards outside.

LikeAnOcean

When are they going to fully develop the future predicting technology of the movie "Minority Report" and start beating these people as they're entering the store?

j/k.

The fat security guard was stupid to throw the punches. I would have been tempted to kick the guard in the ass if I was passing buy and saw those cheap shots. Other than that he was just holding the struggling guy down.

Songburst

Does anybody know what happened before the camera turned on? When I worked at a grocery store as a stock monkey, there were a few occasions when, upon busting a shoplifter, we would be using what seemed like excessive force to someone who may have been just passing by, but what they didn't see were the punches or kicks or bites directed towards us before the fact. Once a shoplifter directs any form of violence towards you, you can do anything reasonable including punching, stepping on, choking to detain the shoplifter. What was illegal (in Ontario anyway) was the use of handcuffs. One of the security guards in the mall that I worked in got fired for using handcuffs and the cops would have charged him if the guy that we brought down wasn't wanted in 3 provinces (including Ontario) for armed robbery and assault.

My3rdEye

world wrote:

Damn, these mall security guards went well beyond what they are allowed. No security officer is ever allowed in any state to punch a shoplifter in the face while hes being restrained. Those guys are going to get sued and charged with assault and battery.

link to video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=4aVbDpXd7A0

Didn't look that bad to me.

Amazing how long it actually took to control the guy though.

enharmonic

El_Kabong wrote:

at one point there's a 3rd guy who starts standing on top of the guys legs/ankles and even starts grinding his body down ontop of them

Maybe they were filming an R. Kelly video?