war

13»

Comments

  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    icarus wrote:
    que, you're obviously drunk tonight :)

    It's true. My 99% statement.

    Consider, in a simple educated guess, how many in all of human history have actually taken up arms against another.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    icarus wrote:
    que, you're obviously drunk tonight :)

    Hey so am I. But that doesn't take away from a good point.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    icarus wrote:
    yes, and cheney has made a number of speeches about peak oil, which goes back to my claim earlier. anyways, controlling strategic resources is perfectly rational state behavior.


    it would be in my interest to control your bank account, is stealing your money a rational action to take?

    but i could make some arguments as to why i need it, so it's justified, right?

    no, there's still a basic principle

    if there was treasure under my floor using a pickaxe to dig it up would be rational, if i was lied to about the treasure then...well, it's not that rational, is it? you can't say the ppl's will is irrational and use how they were mislead by lies as an example

    ppl will always try to rationalize things that are irrational, that's why they're 'rational lies'
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    icarus wrote:
    i'm not talking about iraq. the majority is inherently irrational. thats why representative democratic government was created.

    The majority, if you've been reading my posts at all, is supremely rational when it comes to War. They're going to look out for themselves, just like you and me.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    icarus wrote:
    i'm not talking about iraq. the majority is inherently irrational. thats why representative democratic government was created.

    Okay icarus, that's a copout. I asked you how the majority of people are irrational. I'd like an answer.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    icarus wrote:
    'looking out for themselves' leads to not caring about the other guys and leads to war. thats why we went to war in iraq in the first place. americans didn't care about iraqis, we only cared about our own security, revenge for 9/11 no matter who the victim was, 'fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here', etc.


    That's the past. People are changing their minds and for good reason.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    That's the past. People are changing their minds and for good reason.
    The past? Well, sort of. It's the story they gave us.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    icarus wrote:
    'looking out for themselves' leads to not caring about the other guys and leads to war. thats why we went to war in iraq in the first place. americans didn't care about iraqis, we only cared about our own security, revenge for 9/11 no matter who the victim was, 'fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here', etc.

    Bullshit.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    icarus wrote:
    the majority of people are irrational because they are self-interested and do not care about the minority or for the good of the whole. thats why voters in massachusetts wanted to decide whether gays could marry or not, instead of letting their elected representatives decide. the political body is extremely responsive to changing trends and opinions, which are never based on reason or rationality. the majority of voters don't base their votes on reason. this is why we don't pass all of our laws by referendum. the public is hasty to make decisions without really analyzing whats logical or rational. this is why we have elected terms and staggered terms in the senate. i could name thousands of different issues in which the majority has acted in an irrational manner, such as black civil rights in the south. this is why judicial review and the supreme court was needed to make rational political and legal decisions without the consent of the majority.

    Why does this keep coming back to the gay vote for you? I don't have a problem at all with you being gay, or anyone else, but you cannot convincingly make analogies of this current war with the gay argument.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    icarus wrote:
    the majority of people are irrational because they are self-interested and do not care about the minority or for the good of the whole. thats why voters in massachusetts wanted to decide whether gays could marry or not, instead of letting their elected representatives decide. the political body is extremely responsive to changing trends and opinions, which are never based on reason or rationality. the majority of voters don't base their votes on reason. this is why we don't pass all of our laws by referendum. the public is hasty to make decisions without really analyzing whats logical or rational. this is why we have elected terms and staggered terms in the senate. i could name thousands of different issues in which the majority has acted in an irrational manner, such as black civil rights in the south. this is why judicial review and the supreme court was needed to make rational political and legal decisions without the consent of the majority.

    The point is all of these irrational examples you've brought up are fading. They are becoming the past, the old way. In the meantime people are learning from experience and growing from it. No matter how many judicial reviews you have, you can't force law on people that don't accept it...see marijuana for starters. People will always do what seems reasonable to themselves. And the majority of people are learning from the past and no longer consider war as a reasonable answer. They just aren't accepting the goals/consquences of this war to be greater than their value of human life. It's catching on. You'd have to be blind not to see it. It's the future, imho.

    Look, this has been fun but I gotta get some sleep. Nite all. :)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    icarus wrote:
    just so you guys know i'm an anti-war liberal ;)

    Cool beans...I am too! ;)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    icarus wrote:
    first, i'm not gay. i'm using it as an example because it fits perfectly with what we're talking about and its contemporary. i'm using it to describe how public opinion is irrational. if you fail to grasp this concept, i highly suggest you apply to a university and take an introductory logics class so you can advance your cognitive ability. otherwise, i have no hope for you and i'd like you not to try to debate me in the future when if you fail to understand basic arguments.

    This is about War.

    I, like you (presumedly), assume indifference (at least (or at best)philosophically) for what other men do of their plight. It's to each his own.

    In the history of all mankind, less than 1% of the human race has ever decided to put on some sort of paint, feather, stripe, uniform or take up a spear or a rifle or a slingshot (for that matter), with an oath to kill another.

    It just doesn't happen for the majority of people. In all of HISTORY.

    If you want warmongers to dictate your history to you, that's fine by me, but there is overwhemlming evidence, even from what I can gather from your posts, that you are a part of a vast majority of humans that would just like live their lives in peace.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    icarus wrote:
    i agree with everything you said que.

    Cool. If you hadn't, I would have had to make war on you.

    Why does everyone call me "que"?

    it's G-U-E

    pronounced, "jew".

    I'm an Israelite. In the line of David, passing through America.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    gue_barium wrote:
    Cool. If you hadn't, I would have had to make war on you.

    Why does everyone call me "que"?

    it's G-U-E

    pronounced, "jew".

    I'm an Israelite. In the line of David, passing through America.

    Odd...I kept thinking gue as in gue_barium

    https://secure.gue.com/images/catalog/shirts/gue-hoodie_back.jpg
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")

Categories