how is it beside the poiint ryan. earlier i said just because one feels justified, that doesn't make it so. you dismissed that as being beside the point. and now here you are saying what? that immaturity is beside the point as well and that the fact that both of you felt justified is now enough because you both felt had reason?
do you even know what it is you're trying to convey here?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I read this paper by Nagel last night, and I'm sure he spent a lot of time writing it. I spent a lot of time reading it and about another 2 hours just stewing over the ideas in my head.
So I don't expect the point to be easily conveyed, but I would like those who care to address it, to put a bit of time into understanding what is meant.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
again you don't explain yourself. you just provide a link. tell me what YOU think ryan, in your own words. i am well aware we judge people's actions and motives by our own.
in your original post neither of you could see past yourselves. even though both your motivations were the same. neither of you could objectively process what was going on enough to step back.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
again you don't explain yourself. you just provide a link. tell me what YOU think ryan, in your own words. i am well aware we judge people's actions and motives by our own.
in your original post neither of you could see past yourselves. even though both your motivations were the same. neither of you could objectively process what was going on enough to step back.
That's why the paper is important, it illustrates the point that we can never get outside of ourselves, we can continue to expand our view into infinity and never reach a point where we are completely outside ourselves. Every action we make, at the time, with the information we have, is totally justified.
My wording was in that post. But it adds to what Nagel said.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
That's why the paper is important, it illustrates the point that we can never get outside of ourselves, we can continue to expand our view into infinity and never reach a point where we are completely outside ourselves. Every action we make, at the time, with the information we have, is totally justified.
My wording was in that post. But it adds to what Nagel said.
oh i disagree. i know i have done things that i know at the time i can not justify. and i haven't tried to justify them. i did them because at the time it is what i wanted to do. i had total disregard for others and sometimes myself. is because i wanted to a justification? hmmm.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
oh i disagree. i know i have done things that i know at the time i can not justify. and i haven't tried to justify them. i did them because at the time it is what i wanted to do. i had total disregard for others and sometimes myself. is because i wanted to a justification? hmmm.
Ok, but you said "it's what I wanted to do", emphasizing the I. Quite often people feel overwhelmed by external pressures to behave a certain way, and they want to express their individuality by doing something contrary to what is expected, but that usually carries with a feeling of justification of sticking up for your own desires. It's only upon reflection that it's apparent the act was truly unjustified, but then was it really unjustified and by what measure?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Ok, but you said "it's what I wanted to do", emphasizing the I. Quite often people feel overwhelmed by external pressures to behave a certain way, and they want to express their individuality by doing something contrary to what is expected, but that usually carries with a feeling of justification of sticking up for your own desires. It's only upon reflection that it's apparent the act was truly unjustified, but then was it really unjustified and by what measure?
well then is any act justified?
without going into details, there are several things i am doing at the moment that will result in me being somewhere i want to be. not a physical somewhere but a psychological somewhere. am i justified in my actions? yes i am. how is it i have come to this conclusion? from knowing myself and how i deal with both internal and external factors in my life. i believe my actions will be beneficial to all those concerned because they will put me in a better position to cope and make decisions and doing so, will result in a trickle down effect.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
When I titled this thread, this is what I was thinking of
If she says come inside Ill come inside for her.
If she says give it all Ill give everything to her.
I am justified.
I am purified.
I am sanctified.
Inside you
Nine Inch Nails - Sanctified
I don't know what the connection was, it was just what I thought when I thought "Justified"
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
When I titled this thread, this is what I was thinking of
If she says come inside Ill come inside for her.
If she says give it all Ill give everything to her.
I am justified.
I am purified.
I am sanctified.
Inside you
Nine Inch Nails - Sanctified
I don't know what the connection was, it was just what I thought when I thought "Justified"
his existence is 'justified' because he has found a place of safety with/in her.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
When I titled this thread, this is what I was thinking of
If she says come inside Ill come inside for her.
If she says give it all Ill give everything to her.
I am justified.
I am purified.
I am sanctified.
Inside you
Nine Inch Nails - Sanctified
I don't know what the connection was, it was just what I thought when I thought "Justified"
his existence is 'justified' because he has found a place of safety with/in her.
No, I know. It has nothing to do with the thread. I was just saying that the word "justified" constantly reminds me of this song, and the lyric "I am Justified" is what stood out so I used it as the title for this thread. Not that I feel justified for anything in particular.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
No, I know. It has nothing to do with the thread. I was just saying that the word "justified" constantly reminds me of this song, and the lyric "I am Justified" is what stood out so I used it as the title for this thread. Not that I feel justified for anything in particular.
Admit it. You are Justin Timberlake. The more I read your posts, the more obvious this becomes.
Admit it. You are Justin Timberlake. The more I read your posts, the more obvious this becomes.
"Justified."
To be honest with you, besides the name "Justin Timberlake" I know nothing of "Justin Timberlake". I wouldn't recognize him if he was right in my face. I know he was part of some boy band, 98 degrees, N'Sync or something, but that was around the time I boycott television.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Universal principles are always congruent with...the universe...and Truth.
Give me an example
It's self-evident that universal principles are universal. I think I was originally talking about experiencing base dynamics of the psyche, that are base truths for all of us, even though sometimes/often people are completely oblivious to what underlies their energy. When we are aligned with these principles, things go smoothly, and when we dis-align, our lives get out of kilter. One example is inclusion. When we are willing to practise inclusion, we become aligned and in synch with such a base and universal principle, and we feel harmony for it. When we include and integrate all that we perceive, we align with life. By including, we are not willing to ignore or exclude things, but rather resolve all that is in our awareness into the whole. And when we exclude, we become hived off from the whole. When we do that, we begin to experience disharmony.
Some principles are laws of reciprocity, the law of attraction, "what comes around goes around"/karma/you-get-what-you-give, etc.
disclaimer: again, my subjective experience can only speak to the experiences I've had with these principles, and the true gauge of what these principles are are beyond me, and of the "continua", which cannot be understood in thoughts, or expressed accurately in words. What is universal is the judge of what is universal.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
It's self-evident that universal principles are universal. I think I was originally talking about experiencing base dynamics of the psyche, that are base truths for all of us, even though sometimes/often people are completely oblivious to what underlies their energy. When we are aligned with these principles, things go smoothly, and when we dis-align, our lives get out of kilter. One example is inclusion. When we are willing to practise inclusion, we become aligned and in synch with such a base and universal principle, and we feel harmony for it. When we include and integrate all that we perceive, we align with life. By including, we are not willing to ignore or exclude things, but rather resolve all that is in our awareness into the whole. And when we exclude, we become hived off from the whole. When we do that, we begin to experience disharmony.
Some principles are laws of reciprocity, the law of attraction, "what comes around goes around"/karma/you-get-what-you-give, etc.
disclaimer: again, my subjective experience can only speak to the experiences I've had with these principles, and the true gauge of what these principles are are beyond me, and of the "continua", which cannot be understood in thoughts, or expressed accurately in words. What is universal is the judge of what is universal.
when you say inclusion angelica, is that inclusion of good things only, or everything? do we open ourselves to all that is out there or do we decide what feel is good for us and exclude everything that is not?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
when you say inclusion angelica, is that inclusion of good things only, or everything? do we open ourselves to all that is out there or do we decide what feel is good for us and exclude everything that is not?
The way I see it is that we resolve our conflicts with whatever we see. So for me, I don't adopt other people's beliefs, for example, yet I find a way to be at peace with, or to embrace them. I personalize what is good for me, and I find ways to accept all else. There are many things that I accept as is that I also wouldn't condone, or choose for myself.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Has anyone performed an action that they felt was unjust at the time of performing it?
Certainly upon reflection we can see the err of our ways. However, as I act I feel justified. Let me share a relevant story:
One summer afternoon when I was 13, my brother and I were having a dispute over the living room stereo. He liked Garth Brooks and I like White Zombie, both of us had a distaste for each other's music. The dispute began with one of us changing the CD in the player, then other changed it back. This escalated into shouting and eventually physical violence.
At that time, and for some time after, we both felt justified in our actions. Upon reflection I've learned a valuable lesson, escalation doesn't usually resolve conflicts. Most resolutions come about during a calm and collected conversation. However, there are times, a few times here recently, where this knowledge recedes and I escalate along with the discussion, all the while, feeling just in my actions.
I'm sure everyone can relate to the story above and examine a similar situation in their life. If they do, I'm sure they will find that they felt justified as well. If I can't remember a situation where I did not feel justified in my actions. And I desire to share another's perspective, then I should imagine they feel justified in their actions as well.
i think both of you had a right to listen to your own music. you both should've done 50%/50%, half the time you listen to your music, half the time he listens to his.
Has anyone performed an action that they felt was unjust at the time of performing it?
Certainly upon reflection we can see the err of our ways. However, as I act I feel justified. Let me share a relevant story:
One summer afternoon when I was 13, my brother and I were having a dispute over the living room stereo. He liked Garth Brooks and I like White Zombie, both of us had a distaste for each other's music. The dispute began with one of us changing the CD in the player, then other changed it back. This escalated into shouting and eventually physical violence.
At that time, and for some time after, we both felt justified in our actions. Upon reflection I've learned a valuable lesson, escalation doesn't usually resolve conflicts. Most resolutions come about during a calm and collected conversation. However, there are times, a few times here recently, where this knowledge recedes and I escalate along with the discussion, all the while, feeling just in my actions.
I'm sure everyone can relate to the story above and examine a similar situation in their life. If they do, I'm sure they will find that they felt justified as well. If I can't remember a situation where I did not feel justified in my actions. And I desire to share another's perspective, then I should imagine they feel justified in their actions as well.
You're right; this thread is about THE LOUISVILLE CARDINALS beating the University of Cincinnati in an upset victory. I have the urge to yell "Who Dey?!?" for some reason.
You're right; this thread is about THE LOUISVILLE CARDINALS beating the University of Cincinnati in an upset victory. I have the urge to yell "Who Dey?!?" for some reason.
of course i'm right. what's a cardinal?
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Has anyone performed an action that they felt was unjust at the time of performing it?
Certainly upon reflection we can see the err of our ways. However, as I act I feel justified. Let me share a relevant story:
One summer afternoon when I was 13, my brother and I were having a dispute over the living room stereo. He liked Garth Brooks and I like White Zombie, both of us had a distaste for each other's music. The dispute began with one of us changing the CD in the player, then other changed it back. This escalated into shouting and eventually physical violence.
At that time, and for some time after, we both felt justified in our actions. Upon reflection I've learned a valuable lesson, escalation doesn't usually resolve conflicts. Most resolutions come about during a calm and collected conversation. However, there are times, a few times here recently, where this knowledge recedes and I escalate along with the discussion, all the while, feeling just in my actions.
I'm sure everyone can relate to the story above and examine a similar situation in their life. If they do, I'm sure they will find that they felt justified as well. If I can't remember a situation where I did not feel justified in my actions. And I desire to share another's perspective, then I should imagine they feel justified in their actions as well.
Simply put, just because you can rationalize an act, doesn't necessarily give the act justification.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
Simply put, just because you can rationalize an act, doesn't necessarily give the act justification.
It wasn't about social justice!
You know Hanna and Antonio Damasio say that there are background emotions. In terms of background emotions, I was talking of justification.
It really had nothing to do with social justice.
*sigh*
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Comments
Trivia - I listened to a White Zombie bootleg from 1995 today
http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=4873511&postcount=5
not at all a typical assumption. not on my part anyway. and no ryan, i have no idea what it is you're trying to say with this thread.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
So I don't expect the point to be easily conveyed, but I would like those who care to address it, to put a bit of time into understanding what is meant.
again you don't explain yourself. you just provide a link. tell me what YOU think ryan, in your own words. i am well aware we judge people's actions and motives by our own.
in your original post neither of you could see past yourselves. even though both your motivations were the same. neither of you could objectively process what was going on enough to step back.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
That's why the paper is important, it illustrates the point that we can never get outside of ourselves, we can continue to expand our view into infinity and never reach a point where we are completely outside ourselves. Every action we make, at the time, with the information we have, is totally justified.
My wording was in that post. But it adds to what Nagel said.
oh i disagree. i know i have done things that i know at the time i can not justify. and i haven't tried to justify them. i did them because at the time it is what i wanted to do. i had total disregard for others and sometimes myself. is because i wanted to a justification? hmmm.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Ok, but you said "it's what I wanted to do", emphasizing the I. Quite often people feel overwhelmed by external pressures to behave a certain way, and they want to express their individuality by doing something contrary to what is expected, but that usually carries with a feeling of justification of sticking up for your own desires. It's only upon reflection that it's apparent the act was truly unjustified, but then was it really unjustified and by what measure?
well then is any act justified?
without going into details, there are several things i am doing at the moment that will result in me being somewhere i want to be. not a physical somewhere but a psychological somewhere. am i justified in my actions? yes i am. how is it i have come to this conclusion? from knowing myself and how i deal with both internal and external factors in my life. i believe my actions will be beneficial to all those concerned because they will put me in a better position to cope and make decisions and doing so, will result in a trickle down effect.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
angelina said she did
If she says come inside Ill come inside for her.
If she says give it all Ill give everything to her.
I am justified.
I am purified.
I am sanctified.
Inside you
Nine Inch Nails - Sanctified
I don't know what the connection was, it was just what I thought when I thought "Justified"
his existence is 'justified' because he has found a place of safety with/in her.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I didn't read 72 posts while singing this song...
No, I know. It has nothing to do with the thread. I was just saying that the word "justified" constantly reminds me of this song, and the lyric "I am Justified" is what stood out so I used it as the title for this thread. Not that I feel justified for anything in particular.
Admit it. You are Justin Timberlake. The more I read your posts, the more obvious this becomes.
"Justified."
To be honest with you, besides the name "Justin Timberlake" I know nothing of "Justin Timberlake". I wouldn't recognize him if he was right in my face. I know he was part of some boy band, 98 degrees, N'Sync or something, but that was around the time I boycott television.
It's self-evident that universal principles are universal. I think I was originally talking about experiencing base dynamics of the psyche, that are base truths for all of us, even though sometimes/often people are completely oblivious to what underlies their energy. When we are aligned with these principles, things go smoothly, and when we dis-align, our lives get out of kilter. One example is inclusion. When we are willing to practise inclusion, we become aligned and in synch with such a base and universal principle, and we feel harmony for it. When we include and integrate all that we perceive, we align with life. By including, we are not willing to ignore or exclude things, but rather resolve all that is in our awareness into the whole. And when we exclude, we become hived off from the whole. When we do that, we begin to experience disharmony.
Some principles are laws of reciprocity, the law of attraction, "what comes around goes around"/karma/you-get-what-you-give, etc.
disclaimer: again, my subjective experience can only speak to the experiences I've had with these principles, and the true gauge of what these principles are are beyond me, and of the "continua", which cannot be understood in thoughts, or expressed accurately in words. What is universal is the judge of what is universal.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
when you say inclusion angelica, is that inclusion of good things only, or everything? do we open ourselves to all that is out there or do we decide what feel is good for us and exclude everything that is not?
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i think both of you had a right to listen to your own music. you both should've done 50%/50%, half the time you listen to your music, half the time he listens to his.
what i want to know is will you...
justify my love.
How about those LOUISVILLE CARDINALS?!?!?!?
by george i think he's got it.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
You're right; this thread is about THE LOUISVILLE CARDINALS beating the University of Cincinnati in an upset victory. I have the urge to yell "Who Dey?!?" for some reason.
of course i'm right.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Simply put, just because you can rationalize an act, doesn't necessarily give the act justification.
It wasn't about social justice!
You know Hanna and Antonio Damasio say that there are background emotions. In terms of background emotions, I was talking of justification.
It really had nothing to do with social justice.
*sigh*