'I' am not consciousness

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  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    baraka wrote:
    I'm not sure I follow the question. I know that I am a distinct being, an individual.

    Don't worry, baraka -- the question presupposes it's own answer.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Don't worry, baraka -- the question presupposes it's own answer.

    Er. No it doesn't.

    Human consciousness is not individuality. Individuality is not Self. By definition.
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  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    gue_barium wrote:
    Er. No it doesn't.

    Human consciousness is not individuality. Individuality is not Self. By definition.

    I suggest that human consciousness boils down to self-awareness and phenomenal experiences.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    baraka wrote:
    I suggest that human consciousness boils down to self-awareness and phenomenal experiences.

    I read your posts. You're sharp.

    But,

    how do you know you're you?
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  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    gue_barium wrote:
    Er. No it doesn't.

    Human consciousness is not individuality. Individuality is not Self. By definition.

    The question you're asking is:

    Prove you are rational

    But, proof presupposes rationality.

    So when you say:

    "How do you know you're you, behind your own eyes? "

    You're asking an object to demostrate its own existence. A demonstration, of any type, would answer your question sufficiently.

    In other words, baraka should have posted a picture of a goat.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    farfromglorified wrote:
    The question you're asking is:

    Prove you are rational

    But, proof presupposes rationality.

    So when you say:

    "How do you know you're you, behind your own eyes? "

    You're asking an object to demostrate its own existence. A demonstration, of any type, would answer your question sufficiently.

    A goat? So, you sense the problem.

    In other words, baraka should have posted a picture of a goat.

    Well, it's more a rhetorical (but not strictly rhetorical) question than just a straight out question from one individual to another. It's another one of those language problems I always seem to find.

    A goat? I see you sense the problem.
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  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    gue_barium wrote:
    I read your posts. You're sharp.

    But,

    how do you know you're you?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    baraka wrote:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test

    In a room made of mirrors, which one are you?


    (psst..i didn't check the link)
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  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    gue_barium wrote:
    In a room made of mirrors, which one are you?


    (psst..i didn't check the link)

    Okay, checked it.

    In a room made of mirrors, which one is you?
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    gue_barium wrote:
    Okay, checked it.

    In a room made of mirrors, which one is you?

    huh? are there others with me? I could certainly pick myself out.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    baraka wrote:
    huh? are there others with me? I could certainly pick myself out.

    You could pick your Self out? Hmmm.
    all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    gue_barium wrote:
    You could pick your Self out? Hmmm.

    Couldn't you?
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    baraka wrote:
    Couldn't you?

    I think the Self is internal, constantly changing, it isn't an image in a mirror.
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    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    gue_barium wrote:
    I think the Self is internal, constantly changing, it isn't a body in a mirror.

    I can dig that.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    baraka wrote:
    I can dig that.

    I dig Ron Paul.
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    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    gue_barium wrote:
    I dig Ron Paul.


    I'm hetero, btw. :)
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    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    gue_barium wrote:
    I'm hetero, btw. :)

    Your 'self' might not agree. ;)
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • gue_barium
    gue_barium Posts: 5,515
    baraka wrote:
    Your 'self' might not agree. ;)

    My self tells me I'm the reincarnation of Achilles.
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    except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    sicnevol wrote:
    I'm not even going to talk to you about this anymore, because it is a waste of my time. Pick up a book on physics, and learn about the quantum universe, hell even newton.

    ther are inherent laws with in our universe, proven to be so to EVERYONE, that is reality.

    The following text is from Nobel Laureate Francis Crick's book The Astonishing Hypothesis: The Scientific Search for the Soul


    The chemical properties of each atom are determined almost entirely by its nuclear charge. The other properties of the nucleus--its mass, its secondary electrical properties such as strengths of its dipole, and its quadripole--make in most cases only small differences to its chemical properties.

    Now, to a first approximation, the mass and charge of the nucleus of an atom never change, at least in the mild environment in which life flourishes on earth. Thus the knowledge of the substructure of the nucleus is not needed for chemistry. It makes no difference that an atomic nucleus is composed of various combinations of protons and neutrons, and that they, in turn, are made up of quarks. All the chemist needs to know about each atom is its nuclear charge in order to explain most of the facts of chemistry. To do this he needs to understand the rather unexpected type of mechanics (called "quantum mechanics") that controls the behavior of very small particles and of electrons in particular. In practice, since the calculations soon become impossibly intricate, he mainly uses various rules-of-thumb that we now can see have a reasonable explanation in terms of quantum mechanics. Below this level he need not venture.

    *The major exception to all this is radioactivity: the rare change of one atom into another that occurs in stars, atomic piles and bombs, and, less spectacularly, in the atoms of radioactive minerals an in specially contrived experiments in the laboratory. Radioactivity can produce mutations in DNA, the genetic material, so it cannot be ignored completely, but it is unlikely to be important as a basic process in the behavior of our brains.

    I can predict with %99.999~ certainty that the walls of my apartment will remain walls to my apart out of their own quantum volition.

    You take quantum mechanics to mean something at the macroscopic layer of reality, when in-fact, that meaning is relatively irrelevant to most things discussed about the macroscopic/macrochosmic reality.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    catefrances wrote:
    well you know descartes is correct when he says we can never know what it's like to be bat? i can assure you, i will never know what it's like to fly through the night and eat fruit hanging upside down in a tree. :D

    Some time in the future when we can stimulate specific patterns in your brain that match those of a bat. Then you will know what it's like to be a bat.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire

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