Affirmative Action vs Reverse Discrimination

Hope&Anger

Ebizzie wrote:

Along with the talented white dudes who were dismissed were several white "bad apples". The problem is that if even 1 white guy who consistently outperforms a minority finds himself dismissed, race has just reared its ugly head. I believe in corporate America it has much less to do with image than it does the bottom line. Although a poor performing minority may hurt the company's bottom line a bit, throwing off man-hours etc., it won't hurt near as much as the financial harm caused by a discrimination lawsuit. Which, of course, isn't exactly a good thing for corporate image either.

Actually, most discrimination lawsuits of any merit settle long before they come to trial or hurt the public image of the corporation. And most of the studies conducted about this suggest that discrimination lawsuits are not actually all that costly to corporations. But it is true, corporations do WORRY about them a lot, and they get really timid. But it's so hard and traumatic to file a lawsuit, that they could afford to be a lot less scared than they are.

(I know an interesting article claims that all this hysteria is caused by human relations officers in corporate America who are trying to justify their jobs. So they develop all these policies that just inflame righteous indignation by white workers and don't really protect women or minorities.)

Ebizzie wrote:

As far as your examples women in the workplace go, I don't know what to tell you. My wife will most often stay home with the kids if they're sick being she makes less money in her profession. If she loses her job we'll be able to survive. If I lose my job we'd be in a world of hurt.

That's not an accident. Women earn $.75 for every dollar men make.

Ebizzie wrote:

She prides herself on being a good mother, full of maternal instincts. She doesn't think that "the man" is trying to hold her down when she is tasked with staying home to handle business on a work day.

That's really great, but first of all, some women's maternal instincts have been exactly the thing that has kept them from participating on an equal basis in the workplace. Now, many women may prefer to make less money in exchange for having the flexibility to tend to their families, and more power to them, I say. But -- and again, this may be crazy -- it might be nice if women didn't have to make that trade-off. Also, this trade-off bleeds over and affects other women who want to both have families AND fully compensated professional careers. Or other women may not want to have children at all. But even these women suffer a lot of disadvantages in the workplace.

And maybe "the man" isn't holding us down, but let's face it, our workplaces are not particularly family friendly, and none of us would have designed them this way. But we all accept it because that's the way it is.

Ebizzie wrote:

Any comment about your skirt during a presentation should be taken as a compliment. Perhaps not appropriate timing, but a compliment nonetheless. If you look good, don't think for a second that that plays no role in your advancement in the company. I've seen it firsthand....but that's a whole other debate.

Honey, I never got anywhere based on my looks!! Trust me. And it wasn't a compliment. It was an effort to make me look small in front of important people.

And yes, I agree -- I've seen women sleep their way to the top. But I was more disgusted with the men who traded job perks for blow jobs than I was with the women who gave them what they wanted.

Oh, and by the way -- all the guys who traded job perks for blow jobs? White guys.

Hands bound

Hope&Anger wrote:

Wouldn't it be nice if we lived in a world where instead of turning black women and white men against each other, all employees, regardless of race or gender or ethnicity or religion, could take time off from work to take care of their sick sons? Sure, our bosses might have to take a slightly smaller Christmas bonus or the shareholders would see slightly smaller dividends. But all of us who work for a living could be secure in our jobs and raise healthy families and stop hating each other.

Just a thought . . .

For one, I did not explain the entire situation, which is very long.

But this is NOT the first time she has done it. She was out of sick/vacation time 3 months ago and continues to take off.

Her son is 18 years old and when he gets a cough she takes off.

When was the last time your mother stayed home with you when you were sick simply with something you can take care of yourself for?

In July she was here 10 out of 30 days. That's it. And yes, if she was white I would still be complaining about it, perhaps in a different thread, but still complaining nonetheless.

All I am saying is if it were the other way around and it was me taking all these days off, I would be fired, simple as that.

Ahnimus

This thread has become a prime example of Reverse Discrimination.

Thanks Hope&Anger!

Hope&Anger

Ahnimus wrote:

This thread has become a prime example of Reverse Discrimination.

Thanks Hope&Anger!

Hey, you're welcome!!!

If 4 or 5 white guys can feel discriminated against on a PJ message board because of little ol' me, then I've done my part for promoting the Feminist Agenda today.

Maybe I'll go burn my bra.

Ahnimus

Hope&Anger wrote:

Hey, you're welcome!!!

If 4 or 5 white guys can feel discriminated against on a PJ message board because of little ol' me, then I've done my part for promoting the Feminist Agenda today.

Maybe I'll go burn my bra.

Wow, just wow.

Thanks for clarifying how racist and sexist you are.

jlew24asu

Ahnimus wrote:

Wow, just wow.

Thanks for clarifying how racist and sexist you are.

wow, just wow. are you shocked and awed by his racist, sexist remarks. he was joking. a blind man could see that.

Ahnimus

jlew24asu wrote:

wow, just wow. are you shocked and awed by his racist, sexist remarks. he was joking. a blind man could see that.

No, a blind man couldn't see that. Judging by Anger's other posts, I'd say he/she wasn't joking.

Hope&Anger

Ahnimus wrote:

No, a blind man couldn't see that. Judging by Anger's other posts, I'd say he/she wasn't joking.

I'm really surprised at the reaction to my posts. I re-read them, and they seem pretty moderate, factual. I agree with people when I think they've got it right. When I disagree, I try to be respectful, although I occasionally lapse into sarcasm -- but no worse than anyone else.

But I guess I just keep forgetting how darn sensitive everyone around here is. Maybe if I use more of those little smiley faces, then everyone would know when I was kidding.

And they say feminists have no sense of humor . . .

Ahnimus

Hope&Anger wrote:

I'm really surprised at the reaction to my posts. I re-read them, and they seem pretty moderate, factual. I agree with people when I think they've got it right. When I disagree, I try to be respectful, although I occasionally lapse into sarcasm -- but no worse than anyone else.

But I guess I just keep forgetting how darn sensitive everyone around here is. Maybe if I use more of those little smiley faces, then everyone would know when I was kidding.

And they say feminists have no sense of humor . . .

Sarcasm is anger's ugly cousin

Goosfraba!

Hope&Anger

Ahnimus wrote:

This thread has become a prime example of Reverse Discrimination.

Thanks Hope&Anger!

So this wasn't saracasm???

Goosfraba back at ya, babe!!

Ahnimus

Hope&Anger wrote:

So this wasn't saracasm???

Goosfraba back at ya, babe!!

No it certainly wasn't sarcastic. I was genuinely thanking you for providing some real examples of reverse discrimination.

rebornFixer

Hope&Anger wrote:

I'm really surprised at the reaction to my posts. I re-read them, and they seem pretty moderate, factual. I agree with people when I think they've got it right. When I disagree, I try to be respectful, although I occasionally lapse into sarcasm -- but no worse than anyone else.

But I guess I just keep forgetting how darn sensitive everyone around here is. Maybe if I use more of those little smiley faces, then everyone would know when I was kidding.

And they say feminists have no sense of humor . . .

I actually agree with you, most of your posts were fine. There was only one that set me off, I responded to it, and you decided to keep the discussion going. You are going on and on about sensitivity, but seriously ... You're not being a little bit too sensitive yourself? Its irritating to keep hearing it from someone who is obviously riled up as well. Who did you compare me to, again? Uncalled for. If there was anything in that post that actually suggested you were being funny (as opposed to offended), then trust me, I would not have reacted the way I did. Ask around ... People know I have a sense of humour.
The honest truth is that the double standard about what people can and cannot say really irritates me sometimes.

rebornFixer

Along a somewhat similar note:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/10/17/2051267-cp.html

Strip-mall owner says tenants evicted for business, not racial reasons

By STEPHANIE LEVITZ





VANCOUVER (CP) - The owners of a B.C. strip mall who are facing allegations of racism over their refusal to renew the leases of three long-time tenants say it's not personal, it's business.

Stanford Plaza Inc., owner of the slice of suburban life known as West Willow Shopping Centre in Surrey, B.C., denies that it is methodically evicting non-Asian businesses to make way for a mall targeting the Asian community.

"This has been made into a discrimination issue when it was really just a business issue," Annette Blenkarn, a spokeswoman for Stanford Plaza said. "Any new owner coming into the company would have done the exact same thing."

Rumours of a shakeup began when Stanford secured H-Mart, a American-based Korean grocery chain, as the anchor tenant for the plaza, which had been floundering since the last major retailer pulled out six months ago.

Then, the owners of an insurance brokerage, beauty salon and framing gallery were told their leases weren't being renewed.

Lynne Wallace's store, Frames-West Gallery had been in the mall for 24 years.

Wallace said when she was told her lease wasn't being renewed, she immediately offered to hire Korean staff and change the decor to appeal to the type of client she believed the mall was trying to attract.

She also offered the owners $100,000 to stay in her location through 2009, when she had hoped to retire.

When they ignored her offers, she began to believe it was about race.

"So it's not about money, it's not about me hiring a Korean girl, it's not about me making my store appealing to the Asian market," Wallace said, her voice breaking. "There can be no other reason for them to ask me to leave."

Blenkarn said her offers to hire Korean staff and change the decor were non-starters, as Wallace wasn't asked to leave because she isn't Asian. Wallace's financial offer wasn't market value for the space and the company felt it could do better.

As far as the other two tenants, Blenkarn said the salon was consistently behind on rent and the insurance brokerage had an exclusivity clause on the lease that didn't fit with the plaza's future plans to bring in a financial institution.

Blenkarn said the mall has been struggling for years and the company is focused on rebuilding.

All three evicted tenants have filed a complaint with the B.C. Human Rights Commission, though Wallace admitted it doesn't change the fact that she and the others have to move.


There are a dozen other tenants in the plaza and several contacted said they haven't heard anything about a major change in focus for the mall.

"I feel bad for the businesses that aren't having their leases renewed. It's hard to have to move," said Karam Kler, owner of Fast Fit and Firm Fitness. "But this has been a dead plaza for two years. We need the business coming in here."

H-Mart is expected to open later this year.

June Lee, the project manager for H-Mart, said the argument that the entire mall would cater to the Korean or even the larger Asian community makes no sense because there isn't enough of a population base to support it.

The plaza straddles the Langley-Surrey boundary, two cities southeast of Vancouver experiencing explosive growth.

Statistics Canada estimates there about 5,000 Koreans in Surrey and less than 1,000 in Langley. The largest Asian group in both cities is Chinese.

The number of people of Asian descent in those cities pales in comparison with Richmond, B.C., where several Asian-themed shopping centres have been built deliberately over the last 10 years.

About 60 per cent of Richmond's population are members of a visible minority, with the largest share being Chinese.

Ahnimus

Yea man, B.C. has a huge Asian market. You pretty much have to appeal to Asians.

I was in Metrotown one day when I was a bad ass kid. I went into an arcade and called the game machine a chink because I was getting my ass handed to me by the computer opponent. Anyway, I quickly found out everyone except me in the arcade was Asian. I bolted like my life depended on it, which it probably did.

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

Yea man, B.C. has a huge Asian market. You pretty much have to appeal to Asians.

I was in Metrotown one day when I was a bad ass kid. I went into an arcade and called the game machine a chink because I was getting my ass handed to me by the computer opponent. Anyway, I quickly found out everyone except me in the arcade was Asian. I bolted like my life depended on it, which it probably did.

You're a lucky man.


I have a similar story, actually. I grew up in Northern Saskatchewan, a great many Aboriginal people in my community. Anyhow, years ago my cousin and I are in this pool hall ... Which was the first mistake ... Anyhow, we are playing, and lo and behold he's losing (usually I am the one who sucks). He's getting very pissy so I decide to let him win a game, but then to mess with his head a bit, I try to renege on the bet. "No, man, this was a five dollar game ... I never said 20 bucks". Wouldn't you know it, he totally flies off the handle with all this stuff ... "Fuckin' Indian giver, you said 20 bucks, you fuckin' savage. You've been living in the West Flat too long ..." Uh huh. One look around, yep, he's dead, or we're both dead. Sure enough, six or seven huge native guys are on us. First and hopefully only time I ever hit a guy with a pool cue. We took off out of there, and five blocks away, we stop to catch our breath. Wouldn't you know it, though ... Two of them caught up. I got two ribs cracked, and my cousin got his nose busted, couple of kicks to the back. They went easy on us.

Now this was a couple of white boys who really did deserve a beating, I suppose. Being young and dumb at the time, I let this sort of thing get to me, it "proved" some already racist views I had of my neighbors. In hindsight, though, he learned a lesson, I learned a lesson. And those guys that caught us were actually merciful. They could have beat us to a pulp, but they probably recognized how young and dumb we were and they let us off lightly. Maybe I feel like a defensive white male because of where I grew up, a lot of bullying, racial slurs, etc. Of course, at the time my reaction was to provoke people, rather than look at it more rationally. To this day, people seem to be knocking whites, and all those feelings come flooding back. I don't expect people to understand, but sometimes you wish someone would show a little empathy. My experiences growing up were not those of a highly priveledged white male.

Ahnimus

Hell, I was never highly priveledged. My parents don't do shit for me and I was constantly in trouble with the law and the school board.

I only said chink because where I group up there were very few asian people and chink was the world everyone used to describe things that upset them. Kind of like you hear kids saying gay now. It never crossed my mind until that moment that what I was saying might be a racial slur.

The indian giver thing, I thought that was just an expression. I didn't think it was offensive. Of course where I grew up it was like that. The natives had the privledge of reminding us constantly that we wronged them and they went into a lot of detail how they killed us by scalping and so on. I'm suprised they are taught all that stuff.

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

Hell, I was never highly priveledged. My parents don't do shit for me and I was constantly in trouble with the law and the school board.

I only said chink because where I group up there were very few asian people and chink was the world everyone used to describe things that upset them. Kind of like you hear kids saying gay now. It never crossed my mind until that moment that what I was saying might be a racial slur.

The indian giver thing, I thought that was just an expression. I didn't think it was offensive. Of course where I grew up it was like that. The natives had the privledge of reminding us constantly that we wronged them and they went into a lot of detail how they killed us by scalping and so on. I'm suprised they are taught all that stuff.

I think its fair to say that other factors beyond just the racial slurs caused the incident. I mean, we used bad judgment even being in a pool hall full of natives. Not because Natives are fundamentally flawed people, but because a lot of the time, in this particular city, they are waiting for trouble to start ... Especially when that trouble involves white folks. Prince Albert was just fucked. The simmering racial tensions there were unbelievable. If you grew up poor there, that meant your neighbors were also going to be underpriviledged and poor ... and more often than not, native. All the white folks who had money lived up on the hill ... The folks who worked at the pulp mill and who could afford to buy their kids a new car when the last one got totaled. Really, I should have had more common ground with my neighbors, but there was the race thing.

Ahnimus

reborncareerist wrote:

I think its fair to say that other factors beyond just the racial slurs caused the incident. I mean, we used bad judgment even being in a pool hall full of natives. Not because Natives are fundamentally flawed people, but because a lot of the time, in this particular city, they are waiting for trouble to start ... Especially when that trouble involves white folks. Prince Albert was just fucked. The simmering racial tensions there were unbelievable. If you grew up poor there, that meant your neighbors were also going to be underpriviledged and poor ... and more often than not, native. All the white folks who had money lived up on the hill ... The folks who worked at the pulp mill and who could afford to buy their kids a new car when the last one got totaled. Really, I should have had more common ground with my neighbors, but there was the race thing.

yea that's sad man, I've found that as well.

I had a poor native guy ask me for money once. I was broke too so I told him so, he said "you white people are always broke". Maybe he didn't believe me that I was broke. Or maybe it's because the Natives in Rama get $20,000 cheques every 2 years for the Casino.

Ahnimus

See, this is exactly what I am talking about. What is not ok for one race to do is perfectly acceptable for another race. Total hipocrisy!

Black Movie Awards

A movie awards ceremony only for black people and movies about the "black experience".

Total racist crap.

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

See, this is exactly what I am talking about. What is not ok for one race to do is perfectly acceptable for another race. Total hipocrisy!

Black Movie Awards

A movie awards ceremony only for black people and movies about the "black experience".

Total racist crap.

I wonder if Denzel Washingston, Morgan Freeman, and Laurence Fishburne get nominated every year?

Anyhow, I don't know ... Black films awards is no real skin off my butt, although I think its become quite clear which minority groups in the U.S. have some political clout and which don't. I imagine the reasons for this are historical. Blacks have been horribly mistreated in the past (and quite frequently in the present as well), and now, people are letting the pendulum swing quite far in the other direction. Other ethnic groups don't have this history in the U.S., although increasingly they do have the numbers.