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There is more than one God

AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
edited April 2007 in A Moving Train
Right from the Bible check it out. There is more than one God and they do not want us to live forever.

1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

3:19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Interesting anyway, heard this on a Caltech conference, the speaker was John Hartung
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
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Comments

  • ForestBrainForestBrain Posts: 460
    Uh. God is talking to Jesus there.
    When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Here is the original video
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czhRLNzjL08

    My apologies, scriptures were taken from Genesis, KJV.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • mrwalkerbmrwalkerb Posts: 1,015
    ForestBrain wrote:
    Uh. God is talking to Jesus there.

    I thought he made angels first? so he would be refering to him and the angels?
    "I'm not suicidal, except when I drink. That's why we don't all drink at the same time, there'd be no-one alive to drive home..."
    Chris Cornell

    http://www.myspace.com/mrwalkerb
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    ForestBrain wrote:
    Uh. God is talking to Jesus there.

    Wouldn't he be essentially talking to himself then?

    Or couldn't they use telepathy or simply 'know' what each other intends?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Bu2Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    *grabs an apple off the nearest tree, and waits*
    Feels Good Inc.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    I don't want to live forever. Guess I'm in God's favor.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • ForestBrainForestBrain Posts: 460
    If people would actually read the whole Bible, they would know (depending on whether or not they believe the Bible) that Jesus was always with God. He didn't just appear when he was born. He spoke with Abraham, too. There is a verse in the Bible that goes on about how Jesus was with God when he created the earth. The Word has always been too, but people wouldn't believe that little tidbit.
    When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Bu2 wrote:
    *grabs an apple off the nearest tree, and waits*

    Have you ever tossed a pack of sausages into a pen of wild dogs?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • ForestBrainForestBrain Posts: 460
    God and Jesus are one. But the only way I could make that make sense in terms you'de understand is that when you get married to somebody, you basically become one person. Depending on if you love each other that much.
    When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    ForestBrain wrote:
    If people would actually read the whole Bible, they would know (depending on whether or not they believe the Bible) that Jesus was always with God. He didn't just appear when he was born. He spoke with Abraham, too. There is a verse in the Bible that goes on about how Jesus was with God when he created the earth. The Word has always been too, but people wouldn't believe that little tidbit.

    So Jesus is not the 'Son' of God then, but a minion of God whom God beat into submission in some earlier cosmological battle?

    How did Jesus come to be if he was always with God?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    he was tripping balls on magic mushrooms at the time. i mean seriously... an apple that contains all the knowledge of good and evil in the middle of paradise?
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    ForestBrain wrote:
    God and Jesus are one. But the only way I could make that make sense in terms you'de understand is that when you get married to somebody, you basically become one person. Depending on if you love each other that much.

    Even that doesn't make sense to me :p
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Bu2Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Have you ever tossed a pack of sausages into a pen of wild dogs?

    ....but I've opened a pack of catnip, tossed it on the floor, and watched my cats go nuts.

    Unfortunately, Ahnimus, I am going to bed now and should not have started a debate with you this late in the evening. So perhaps we can continue this on a different night, if not in a different light?

    Peace,

    Bu
    Feels Good Inc.
  • ForestBrainForestBrain Posts: 460
    Ahnimus wrote:
    So Jesus is not the 'Son' of God then, but a minion of God whom God beat into submission in some earlier cosmological battle?

    How did Jesus come to be if he was always with God?
    Because he is the Son of God. God sent him to earth not only to fulfill his word, but because if he'd not died on the cross then remission of sins would have been much, much harder. But because he died on the cross, salvation is for anybody.
    Wait a minute.....is there a point in discussing this with you? Or do you just not believe it and feel like arguing with people?
    When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Bu2 wrote:
    ....but I've opened a pack of catnip, tossed it on the floor, and watched my cats go nuts.

    Unfortunately, Ahnimus, I am going to bed now and should not have started a debate with you this late in the evening. So perhaps we can continue this on a different night, if not in a different light?

    Peace,

    Bu

    Ok...
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Right from the Bible check it out. There is more than one God and they do not want us to live forever.

    1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

    3:22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

    3:19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

    Interesting anyway, heard this on a Caltech conference, the speaker was John Hartung


    Is this from the King James Bible? The royal "we" might explain it.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    Is this from the King James Bible? The royal "we" might explain it.

    The third one is, the first two I may have got from the new version on biblegateway.com I didn't check the version. Essentially it says the same thing, although the new version I've heard does try to reduce it to one God.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • bookmusebookmuse Posts: 277
    soulsinging wrote:
    he was tripping balls on magic mushrooms at the time. i mean seriously... an apple that contains all the knowledge of good and evil in the middle of paradise?


    Haha


    For me-
    Offense #1
    And the Bible blames Eve (woman) for the hurt and death of all that will live. No paradise because of this apple.

    Offense#2
    How did all of mankind start from the union of two people. Kids would have had to procreate with siblings and on and on - Incest - no wonder this world has so many lunatics, yes?

    so many more. There are great lessons written by man in this Bible but there is a lot of hate, fear and prejudice taught as well.
    "Speak your mind even if your voice shakes" ~ M Kuhn
  • Bu2Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    bookmuse wrote:
    Haha


    For me-
    Offense #1
    And the Bible blames Eve (woman) for the hurt and death of all that will live. No paradise because of this apple.

    Offense#2
    How did all of mankind start from the union of two people. Kids would have had to procreate with siblings and on and on - Incest - no wonder this world has so many lunatics, yes?

    so many more. There are great lessons written by man in this Bible but there is a lot of hate, fear and prejudice taught as well.

    Eh, men?
    Feels Good Inc.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    I've read a couple of arguments in the past, that the use of the royal we wouldn't have been "allowed", but back in 1611, there was no such thing as stereotyping of print. No two copies of a printed text would be the same: different "meanings" could easily creep in. And the thing about language is, it's not in the intention, it's in the interpretation. If it was all in the intention, a lot more bad writers would be millionaires!

    I guess what we'd have to do is find sources and analogues for how the Geneva Bible, the Bishop's Bible or the King James version were put together.
  • Bu2Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    we just look at the original papyrus leaves.

    Or are there none left?
    Feels Good Inc.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    ForestBrain wrote:
    Because he is the Son of God. God sent him to earth not only to fulfill his word, but because if he'd not died on the cross then remission of sins would have been much, much harder. But because he died on the cross, salvation is for anybody.
    Wait a minute.....is there a point in discussing this with you? Or do you just not believe it and feel like arguing with people?

    You didn't answer the question. How long has Jesus been around? Always? Like you said. Then how could he be one with God, he's a separate entity then.

    Not sure what Jesus dying has to do with it. But why would it have been harder? And how did Jesus really sacrifice anything, he descended from heaven, died as a man, then returned to heaven. If he'd gone to Hell then I would call that a sacrifice.

    It's not just that I don't believe in it, it's just that it doesn't make any sense, and therefor I can't believe in it.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    Bu2 wrote:
    we just look at the original papyrus leaves.

    Or are there none left?


    I'm thinking about ecclesiastical debates in the Reformation era. Has anyone read In Praise of Folly by Erasmus? Brilliant book. It was framed in the context of debates about translations of the Bible. The Catholic Church wanted to stick to the Latin Vulgate; progressives wanted to go back further in time, to be closer to what they believed to be the intended, prescriptive meaning(s) of the surviving texts in antiquity.

    These sorts of debates must have shaped scholarly translations of the texts into English, I would guess (without knowing). However, the nature of the printing press being as volatile as it was at the time, you'd have a hard job making sure of an authoritative text in printed circulation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgate
  • Bu2Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    "It's not just that I don't believe in it, it's just that it doesn't make any sense, and therefor[e] I can't believe in it."

    Ahnimus, we finally agree.

    Good night.
    Feels Good Inc.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    I've read a couple of arguments in the past, that the use of the royal we wouldn't have been "allowed", but back in 1611, there was no such thing as stereotyping of print. No two copies of a printed text would be the same: different "meanings" could easily creep in. And the thing about language is, it's not in the intention, it's in the interpretation. If it was all in the intention, a lot more bad writers would be millionaires!

    I guess what we'd have to do is find sources and analogues for how the Geneva Bible, the Bishop's Bible or the King James version were put together.

    It's a translation from a Hebrew word for Gods plural, can't remember what the word is, but it's in that video.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    Bu2 wrote:
    Ahnimus, we finally agree.

    Good night.

    Night Bu, don't let Goku get ya! ;)
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • lucylespianlucylespian Posts: 2,403
    HAven't read the whoolr thtread, but this is a no-brainer, have counted about 45 different gods her just on this bit of forum alone !!
    Music is not a competetion.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    Ahnimus wrote:
    It's a translation from a Hebrew word for Gods plural, can't remember what the word is, but it's in that video.


    Interesting. I'll ask a rather conservative theologian/Hebrew scholar bloke I know, and see how he sweats a reply!
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    Interesting. I'll ask a rather conservative theologian/Hebrew scholar bloke I know, and see how he sweats a reply!

    Here it is

    ELOHIM: God (a plural noun, more than two, used with singular verbs); Elohim occurs 2,570 times in the OT, 32 times in Gen. 1. God as Creator, Preserver, Transcendent, Mighty and Strong. Eccl., Dan. Jonah use Elohim almost exclusively. See Gen. 17:7, 6:18, 9:15, 50:24; I Kings 8:23; Jer. 31:33; Isa. 40:1.

    http://www.ldolphin.org/Names.html

    Confirm that with your friend.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • sicnevolsicnevol Posts: 180
    ForestBrain wrote:
    Uh. God is talking to Jesus there.
    No he was speaking to the Chiors of seriphim. They were also made in his image, and thus we were made in their.
    That's two things we've got, Tape and Time.
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