Canadian School Shooting

2

Comments

  • That guy is damned Scary.


    The problem as I see it, isn't so much the guns themselves, but the ease with which one may go about acquiring them (legal and illegal). Simply put, when its too easy to obtain a firearm, it is inevitable that they will sometimes fall into the wrong hands. In Canada, its simply more difficult for the average person to acquire a firearm, reducing the likelihood of such a crime.

    Unfortunately, no crime is unavoidable. One can only hope that gunman's other victims fully recover.
  • That guy is damned Scary.


    The problem as I see it, isn't so much the guns themselves, but the ease with which one may go about acquiring them (legal and illegal). Simply put, when its too easy to obtain a firearm, it is inevitable that they will sometimes fall into the wrong hands. In Canada, its simply more difficult for the average person to acquire a firearm, reducing the likelihood of such a crime.

    Unfortunately, no crime is unavoidable. One can only hope that gunman's other victims fully recover.

    Based on what I've seen and heard, the guy's gun was already an illegal weapon in this country. Legal guns aren't the issue. Its too easy to get illegal guns on the streets.

    That guy is indeed scary. He fits the typical school shooter profile to a tee, except that he's not white. I don't think race is an issue in school shootings, although I've heard people argue that it is a factor. Nope. I think this problem spans all groups of people.
  • PickrPickr Posts: 161
    Based on what I've seen and heard, the guy's gun was already an illegal weapon in this country. Legal guns aren't the issue. Its too easy to get illegal guns on the streets.

    That guy is indeed scary. He fits the typical school shooter profile to a tee, except that he's not white. I don't think race is an issue in school shootings, although I've heard people argue that it is a factor. Nope. I think this problem spans all groups of people.

    Media's not playing the race card, they are playing the gothy, freaky, Marilyn Manson listening card.
    Stix and Stones may break my bones, but More than Words will never hurt me.
  • sourdough wrote:
    I don't think anyone would dispute that there are handguns in Canada. Its obvious. There are shootings here, abeit not at all at the same rate as down south. Guns are a problem here and the truth is that most of them are illegal guns that come up from the states. I do believe there should be a ban on handguns here and I don't see any societal benefit from having them available. I feel differently about hunting rifles, but handguns are unnecessary.

    And I've said it before. Banning hanguns does nothing when all the handguns being used in crime are already illegal weapons being imported from the U.S. Think about it logically, dude.
  • Pickr wrote:
    Media's not playing the race card, they are playing the gothy, freaky, Marilyn Manson listening card.

    No, I was referring to some psychologists and psychiatrists who make the race arguments about school shootings in general. No one is doing it in this case, yet.
  • PickrPickr Posts: 161
    Stix and Stones may break my bones, but More than Words will never hurt me.
  • And I've said it before. Banning hanguns does nothing when all the handguns being used in crime are already illegal weapons being imported from the U.S. Think about it logically, dude.

    I agree....some fellow Canadians should look at the restrictions on hand-guns...very stingy...for example if you purchase a hand-gun it requires you to have taken provincial and federal examinations (which still will not be enough to own a hand-gun) then you must take a test for possessing a restricted firearm (hand-gun).....and when you got this you go purchase your gun using valid specified gun-owner ID and then you must phone your local police detachement that you are buying and transporting a gun from the store to your house.....that to me tells me the process in place is good enough....it is illegal guns (most likely coming across the border) that are the problem....
  • Pickr wrote:

    That made me teary, and now I have to test participants ...

    Damn.
    I hate this kind of stuff so much. What a world we live in ... I have to remind myself about all the really good decent people out there.
  • I agree....some fellow Canadians should look at the restrictions on hand-guns...very stingy...for example if you purchase a hand-gun it requires you to have taken provincial and federal examinations (which still will not be enough to own a hand-gun) then you must take a test for possessing a restricted firearm (hand-gun).....and when you got this you go purchase your gun using valid specified gun-owner ID and then you must phone your local police detachement that you are buying and transporting a gun from the store to your house.....that to me tells me the process in place is good enough....it is illegal guns (most likely coming across the border) that are the problem....

    I've actually gone though the process, although I do not actually own a handgun. It is more rigorous than pretty much any other type of licensing.

    This guy's weapon was an assault rifle. Already illegal, although apparently not unattainable.
  • PickrPickr Posts: 161
    I agree....some fellow Canadians should look at the restrictions on hand-guns...very stingy...for example if you purchase a hand-gun it requires you to have taken provincial and federal examinations (which still will not be enough to own a hand-gun) then you must take a test for possessing a restricted firearm (hand-gun).....and when you got this you go purchase your gun using valid specified gun-owner ID and then you must phone your local police detachement that you are buying and transporting a gun from the store to your house.....that to me tells me the process in place is good enough....it is illegal guns (most likely coming across the border) that are the problem....

    but even those restrictions don't stop one from taking firearms from the valid owner and using them to commit such actions as we saw yesterday. This guy could have just easily stolen dad's gun from the closet if it were such the case.
    Stix and Stones may break my bones, but More than Words will never hurt me.
  • Pickr wrote:
    but even those restrictions don't stop one from taking firearms from the valid owner and using them to commit such actions as we saw yesterday. This guy could have just easily stolen dad's gun from the closet if it were such the case.

    Except that's not what happened here, and moreover, its already law that all guns must be stored in a locked cabinet or safe. A law I do agree with ...
  • PickrPickr Posts: 161
    Except that's not what happened here, and moreover, its already law that all guns must be stored in a locked cabinet or safe. A law I do agree with ...

    I agree too, absolutley, I am just pointing out that no matter how difficult you make the process or how restrictive, there is always opportunity to get around it.
    Stix and Stones may break my bones, but More than Words will never hurt me.
  • Pickr wrote:
    I agree too, absolutley, I am just pointing out that no matter how difficult you make the process or how restrictive, there is always opportunity to get around it.

    Exactly, and that includes an outright ban on certain types of weapons.
    What needs to happen, I think, is better policing of the border. These weapons clearly aren't made here! Our border is too porous. Too much dangerous shit comes here. I am not sure what the solution is, but the issue needs a look.
  • My heart goes out to the victims and their families...
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  • Except that's not what happened here, and moreover, its already law that all guns must be stored in a locked cabinet or safe. A law I do agree with ...

    With the ammo kept away seperatly....

    Regardless of laws there will always exist those that choose to break them.....
  • PickrPickr Posts: 161
    Exactly, and that includes an outright ban on certain types of weapons.
    What needs to happen, I think, is better policing of the border. These weapons clearly aren't made here! Our border is too porous. Too much dangerous shit comes here. I am not sure what the solution is, but the issue needs a look.

    They already tried with the gun registration fiasco, what a waste that was..Who knows what the solution is, stronger laws for crimes committed with guns? I believe the Conservatives are in the process of doing that, if not already done. The border is one area to look at for sure. Be more strict on screening those who come in and out of our country. I am surprised how many times I cross without being searched. It has only happened once in at least 25 times.
    Stix and Stones may break my bones, but More than Words will never hurt me.
  • http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/09/13/1834866-cp.html

    Man, I cannot read the news today ... People are acting like such morons, and I think I need a day off. Why can't people EVER address the real issues in these cases? Every article is about guns, a fucking tool. No one mentions the dehumanization that goes with living in big cities, the untreated mental illness that plagues most school shooters, the socioeconomic factors that might be related to why people become so stressed and ill that they commit these kinds of horrible crimes. Instead, you get retards like Gilles Duceppe taking about registering cars (??!!!), and people focusing right away on guns. Seriously warped thinking. How can we ignore the root causes of this stuff as a society? Is it safer to do so? I mean, logically now ... Our gun laws get more and more restrictive, yet shooting deaths in cities like Toronto actually increase... More school shootings happen, even AFTER this bullshit long gun registry. Yet peoples' solution is simply more laws that don't work? At what point do you try a solution that might actually be helpful, and start talking about WHY people go on rampages?
  • Pickr wrote:
    They already tried with the gun registration fiasco, what a waste that was..Who knows what the solution is, stronger laws for crimes committed with guns? I believe the Conservatives are in the process of doing that, if not already done. The border is one area to look at for sure. Be more strict on screening those who come in and out of our country. I am surprised how many times I cross without being searched. It has only happened once in at least 25 times.


    I'm not sure if that would have much impact. Afterall, I don't think a guy like this had any intention of being caught. The same can probably be said of most criminals who either think they will get away with it, are acting out of passion (rage), or as in this case, have a deathwish.

    When it comes to nutjobs like this guy, I don't think any law would have stopped him from carrying out his agenda.
  • http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/09/13/1834866-cp.html

    Man, I cannot read the news today ... People are acting like such morons, and I think I need a day off. Why can't people EVER address the real issues in these cases? Every article is about guns, a fucking tool. No one mentions the dehumanization that goes with living in big cities, the untreated mental illness that plagues most school shooters, the socioeconomic factors that might be related to why people become so stressed and ill that they commit these kinds of horrible crimes. Instead, you get retards like Gilles Duceppe taking about registering cars (??!!!), and people focusing right away on guns. Seriously warped thinking. How can we ignore the root causes of this stuff as a society? Is it safer to do so? I mean, logically now ... Our gun laws get more and more restrictive, yet shooting deaths in cities like Toronto actually increase... More school shootings happen, even AFTER this bullshit long gun registry. Yet peoples' solution is simply more laws that don't work? At what point do you try a solution that might actually be helpful, and start talking about WHY people go on rampages?

    You are starting sound like a "leftist" my friend....however I do agree with you.....
  • You are starting sound like a "leftist" my friend....however I do agree with you.....

    That was a very angry post, and I feel a bit silly ... But seriously. I want this kind of problem to have real solutions! Its like we cannot get it right ... Maybe because the real solutions are systemic and involve "too much" money! More laws don't make a society better ... More focus on social issues does!
  • PickrPickr Posts: 161
    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/09/13/1834866-cp.html

    Man, I cannot read the news today ... People are acting like such morons, and I think I need a day off. Why can't people EVER address the real issues in these cases? Every article is about guns, a fucking tool. No one mentions the dehumanization that goes with living in big cities, the untreated mental illness that plagues most school shooters, the socioeconomic factors that might be related to why people become so stressed and ill that they commit these kinds of horrible crimes. Instead, you get retards like Gilles Duceppe taking about registering cars (??!!!), and people focusing right away on guns. Seriously warped thinking. How can we ignore the root causes of this stuff as a society? Is it safer to do so? I mean, logically now ... Our gun laws get more and more restrictive, yet shooting deaths in cities like Toronto actually increase... More school shootings happen, even AFTER this bullshit long gun registry. Yet peoples' solution is simply more laws that don't work? At what point do you try a solution that might actually be helpful, and start talking about WHY people go on rampages?

    We care more about reacting to the problem than stopping it. We label everything and pathologize it. We medicate our out of control kids with shit that just make them worse..ie suicide...We blame the symbols of our culture rather than looking in the mirror..Our kids are exposed to violence in this day and age by way of the war, the net, etc...I don't know, free will has to be thrown in somewhere and they have to be held accountable for thier own actions, it just seems we don't give them a fair start sometimes.
    Stix and Stones may break my bones, but More than Words will never hurt me.
  • Pickr wrote:
    We blame the symbols of our culture rather than looking in the mirror..

    Bingo ... Even though looking into the mirror is absolutely necessary. Sure, its a painful process, it always is. But much good can come of it. Instead, politicians like Duceppe pander to people's fears and reinforce a focus on superficial band-aid "solutions".
  • That was a very angry post, and I feel a bit silly ... But seriously. I want this kind of problem to have real solutions! Its like we cannot get it right ... Maybe because the real solutions are systemic and involve "too much" money! More laws don't make a society better ... More focus on social issues does!


    Very much agree.....
  • I don't like the way that guy writing about the shooter's blog is doing so. He's going to end up getting anger taken out on heavy metalers who don't even condone this type of action. Perhaps the worse one is "...making the sign of the devil."

    Man, whens the last time you been to a concert? It doesn't mean the devil anymore, if it meant that at all.
  • Sorry if i'm late to comment on that.

    There's nothing to be done to prevent that, other than someone around him maybe being suspicious of something and calling the cop, since they knew he had weapons, but that's not that easy, the guy should be defined as mental ill.

    All guns involved were registered and LEGAL, which throw to the garbage the argument that those who commit crimes use illegal weapons, gun register is great, but it needs to be tougher to get those weapons and amnos, or just ban those stupid guns, and make them illegal (handguns and semi auto guns).

    No tougher crime laws would have prevent that, his intentions was to kill himself, the guy couldn't care less about the sentences.

    It's a sad sad story that has shaken the whole city and even the whole province, everyone is deeply saden by the event, but unfortunatly this kind of event seem to be happening way too often here, at least once in a decade. There's no social explanation, just a mentally ill, anti social human (probably depressed), who happened to have easy access to guns and amnos.

    I'm deeply shocked to see the lack of compassion from the idiots posting: "hey, who said Canada didn't had guns problems blablabla", it's your own stupid ignorance that you're showing to everyone.

    My sympathy and thoughts goes to the families and peoples involved, and wish the best for those who are still in the hospital, fighting for their lives.

    edit: The cops and the paramedics did a wonderfull job, it could have been a lot worse, instead of locking up the perimeters and wait for reinforcement as they did in some other events, they ran in the school and confront the guy, while the paramedic were giving first care to those who were just shot, probably saved a lot of lives, bravo.
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • Sorry if i'm late to comment on that.

    There's nothing to be done to prevent that, other than someone around him maybe being suspicious of something and calling the cop, since they knew he had weapons, but that's not that easy, the guy should be defined as mental ill.

    All guns involved were registered and LEGAL, which throw to the garbage the argument that those who commit crimes use illegal weapons, gun register is great, but it needs to be tougher to get those weapons and amnos, or just ban those stupid guns, and make them illegal (handguns and semi auto guns).

    No tougher crime laws would have prevent that, his intentions was to kill himself, the guy couldn't care less about the sentences.

    It's a sad sad story that has shaken the whole city and even the whole province, everyone is deeply saden by the event, but unfortunatly this kind of event seem to be happening way too often here, at least once in a decade. There's no social explanation, just a mentally ill, anti social human (probably depressed), who happened to have easy access to guns and amnos.

    I'm deeply shocked to see the lack of compassion from the idiots posting: "hey, who said Canada didn't had guns problems blablabla", it's your own stupid ignorance that you're showing to everyone.

    My sympathy and thoughts goes to the families and peoples involved, and wish the best for those who are still in the hospital, fighting for their lives.

    No, the gun registry is not great, it is a useless piece of shit idea. In fact, as you pointed out, his guns were LEGAL. Yet somehow the registry didn't stop him, at all. And as you say, if the guy couldn't care less about the law, why would stricter laws have stopped him, sentencing OR gun laws? And the point about illegal guns still stands. This exception doesn't mean that all the handgun crimes in Toronto and Vancouver are also perpetuated with legal weapons. They are not.

    Seriously, don't make me hate people's ignorance even more than I already do. This is not a gun issue, and if people treat it as such, NOTHING will change!
  • No, the gun registry is not great, it is a useless piece of shit idea. In fact, as you pointed out, his guns were LEGAL. Yet somehow the registry didn't stop him, at all. And as you say, if the guy couldn't care less about the law, why would stricter laws have stopped him, sentencing OR gun laws? And the point about illegal guns still stands. This exception doesn't mean that all the handgun crimes in Toronto and Vancouver are also perpetuated with legal weapons. They are not.

    Seriously, don't make me hate people's ignorance even more than I already do. This is not a gun issue, and if people treat it as such, NOTHING will change!

    Gun registry is not great ok i agree i overused the term great. Guns and amnos should be heavily regulated, if it means scrapping this registry for a better way to control firearms and specially amnos, then scrap it and do something else, but if weapons are around (legal or not), this kind of crime can happen, obviously. Those guns are allowed to exist and can easily end up in the end of a psychos, there's nothing to fight for there, i know it's not everyone who own guns that should be held responsible, you and anyone who own a gun can still go around practicing your hobby, just as this man was doing, before his mind snapped.

    I repeat it, no tougher laws could have change anything to this man ideology, it wasn't on his mind, i don't know why you dispute that, he was looking ahead to his own death. He shot himself.

    I've said nothing can be done to prevent that, guns are just a part of the issue, mental illness or depression is another, denial of those facts wont change anything either. No stricter guns laws or sentences would have prevent that, unless guns wouldn't exist, but it does. So i don't understand why you try to confront me, but i don't care much, it's the reason why i don't post here as often, the confrontation seem to be the only mean to discuss.

    edit: i've reread and you do not dispute that stricter law won't prevent that, we agree on that one. We still disagree about the fact that guns and amnos should be harder to buy, legal or not.
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • Gun registry is not great ok i agree i overused the term great. Guns and amnos should be heavily regulated, if it means scrapping this registry for a better way to control firearms and specially amnos, then scrap it and do something else, but if weapons are around (legal or not), this kind of crime can happen, obviously. Those guns are allowed to exist and can easily end up in the end of a psychos, there's nothing to fight for there, i know it's not everyone who own guns that should be held responsible, you and anyone who own a gun can still go around practicing your hobby, just as this man was doing, before his mind snapped.

    I repeat it, no tougher laws could have change anything to this man ideology, it wasn't on his mind, i don't know why you dispute that, he was looking ahead to his own death. He shot himself.

    I've said nothing can be done to prevent that, guns are just a part of the issue, mental illness or depression is another, denial of those facts wont change anything either. No stricter guns laws or sentences would have prevent that, unless guns wouldn't exist, but it does. So i don't understand why you try to confront me, but i don't care much, it's the reason why i don't post here as often, the confrontation seem to be the only mean to discuss.

    Dude, relax ... You and I usually get along, and I didn't intend to post anything confrontational. I did say that I hate the ignorance about these issues, but I wasn't referring to you specifically. Watching the news about this issue really fires me up, because there is NO mention of mental health issues, or social issues that might cause people like this to snap. None. Its all politicians and guns and victims clamoring for more laws instead of better mental health programming. Sorry, but it pisses me off. I want real solutions here.

    Apparently the conservatives are considering tougher processes for obtaining gun licences, including psychological evaluations. I have mixed feelings about this idea, although it sounds better than a registry on the surface. It still won't prevent people from doing this stuff completely, but it might screen out some cases.
  • Dude, relax ... You and I usually get along, and I didn't intend to post anything confrontational. I did say that I hate the ignorance about these issues, but I wasn't referring to you specifically. Watching the news about this issue really fires me up, because there is NO mention of mental health issues, or social issues that might cause people like this to snap. None. Its all politicians and guns and victims clamoring for more laws instead of better mental health programming. Sorry, but it pisses me off. I want real solutions here.

    Apparently the conservatives are considering tougher processes for obtaining gun licences, including psychological evaluations. I have mixed feelings about this idea, although it sounds better than a registry on the surface. It still won't prevent people from doing this stuff completely, but it might screen out some cases.

    yeah i've edit the other post saying i misread the part about sentences... my bad, and what you just said about making it thougher to obtain gun licences is also where i stand... Mental health research and treatment should see major investment in the future, maybe taking a part of those millions they spent on the registry and spend it on social issue and mental health issue, would be a solution, but it wouldn't stop something like that to happen, in my opinion.
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • The way I see it, registry or no registry, guns or no guns, laws or no laws, if someone has criminal intent on their mind they will have little regard for anything - so whether or not their weapon is registered is not the issue here. It is up to all of us to recognize if one of our friends or family needs help (mentally or otherwise) and do what we can to help them or find them the help that they need BEFORE something like this happens again. I find it awfully hard to believe that anyone within the circle of friends/family of the shooter had NO idea he had some sort of intent prior to this tragedy. He posted stories and pictures of himself with weapons on the internet. You can't tell me that doesn't send out some sort of red flag. All I can say is be mindful of those around you and if you recognize something is out of sorts, act on it, and if you feel you need help yourself, please seek it. We have to take care of each other.

    My thoughts are with those affected by this tragedy and hope that together we can prevent things like this from happening in the future.
    I "waved to all my friends" at:
    Toronto 22/08/98 - Toronto 05/10/00 - Buffalo 02/05/03 - Toronto 28/06/03 - Montreal 29/06/03 - Kitchener 11/09/05 - London 12/09/05- Hamilton 13/09/05 - Montreal 15/09/05 - Ottawa 16/09/05 - Toronto 19/09/05 - Toronto 09/05/06 - Toronto 10/05/06 - Toronto 21/08/09
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