And had it not been for Iraq, which I'm sure you'll quickly admit had nothing to do with fighting terrorism, we would still have most of the world on our side.
So what is your point exactly?
Actually, believe it or not, most Arabs are not happy with the occupation of Afghanistan.
Wow, so you all think the war on terror is succesful and a good idea?
.......
Why? Because the terrorists themselves have said that America's presence in the Middle East and their support for Israel is one of the main reasons they are doing what they are doing. They're basically asking the US to get its big dick out of their sandy arse.
Boom.... there it is...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Well you have to understand that in anything in life, designation or chacterization/labeling of a person, group or whatever is completely arbitrary. No one calls the founders fathers of America terrorists, but at that time, to England they were... to us they're "revolutionaries" with a good message.
In Noam Chomsky's book, "Pirates and Emperors, International Terrorism in the Real World", he tells this story, attributed to St. Augustine. A captured pirate was brought before Alexander the Great. "How dare you molest the sea?, said Alexander. How dare you molest the whole world?" replied the pirate and continued: "Because I do it with a little ship only I am called a thief; you, doing it with a great navy are called emperor."
"The rich and powerful have every right to demand that they be left in peace to enjoy what they have gained, often by violence and terror; the rest can be ignored as long as they suffer in silence, but if they interfere with the lives of those who rule the world by right, the 'terrors of the earth' will be visited upon them with righteous wrath, unless power is constrained from within." - Winston Churchill
That is a long read. I got as far as the part where it basically said that psychologically terrorist shouldn't be classified as abnormal and I stopped.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Of course we need to fight terrorism. I mean look how crafty these lads are. They managed to pull off remarkable attacks all on their own, completely defying multiple US defense systems in place and managed to do so in a way that, when the facts are analysed, even implicate the US government in the event.
Surely, it's just a matter of time before these monsters attack again. Just when the political time is right...
This whole thread is ridiculous, speculative, horribly spun, completely rhetorical and hypothetical nonsense.
whatever you Obama hating anti-semite who wants to wipe Israel off the map!
you can't fool me!
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
And had it not been for Iraq, which I'm sure you'll quickly admit had nothing to do with fighting terrorism, we would still have most of the world on our side.
So what is your point exactly?
Exactly.
The war on Terror was a noble fight fought AWFULLY by the Bush Administration for taking it to Iraq.
Bush is to blame for the world hating us not us going after Terrorists.
I believe if we kept up the fight we originally started we would still have most of the world on our side.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
you ignored my response to this. most of the arab world does not support our occupation of Afghanistan.
I believe this has more to do with Iraq then Afghanistan. We can do no right in the Arab world's eyes right now so they hate on all of our activity in the region.
Had we stuck to Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc we would have had more support. Maybe not full support but more support.
Iraq was where the whole world turned and 100% of the Arab world.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
The war on Terror was a noble fight fought AWFULLY by the Bush Administration for taking it to Iraq.
Bush is to blame for the world hating us not us going after Terrorists.
I believe if we kept up the fight we originally started we would still have most of the world on our side.
Anyone who has a true interest in fighting Terrorism and the Terrorists commiting it, would know that you can't fight it this way.
Diplomacy (without appeasment and pandering), Policy changes and a thorough investigation of it all; would be the first step to fighting Terrorism.
With our government and corporate interests, cleaning up our own backyard first and then addressing our fickle and highly biased foreign policy; would be the first steps.
That would expose the true terrorists for what they are and seperate them from the one's who actually have a good, valid reason to be angry with the USA and hold a grudge.
I trust everone here has read PNAC and is familiar with all the authors?
The noble war on terror
hahahahah! (hahahaa)
Let's just say I'm not convinced in the least.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Dick Cheney
Donald Rumsfeld
Paul Wolfowitz
Jeb Bush
Lewis Libby
Richard Perle
....also Douglas Feith, Bill Kristal, Elliot Abrams, Aaron Friedberg, Donald Kagan, Robert Kagan, Stephen Rosen (the AIPAC employee caught spying on the US) Eliot A. Cohen, Paula Dobriansky, Fred C. Ikle, and Norman Podhoretz, All Zionists and all Jewish. That's not anti-Semetic it's just the truth and what that means is they have dual citizenship and put the another nation's interests ahead of the US.
Who is doing what? Is it Israel now, or the US....dual-citizens making big (huge) policies seem to abound...
hmm
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Anyone who has a true interest in fighting Terrorism and the Terrorists commiting it, would know that you can't fight it this way.
Diplomacy (without appeasment and pandering), Policy changes and a thorough investigation of it all; would be the first step to fighting Terrorism.
With our government and corporate interests, cleaning up our own backyard first and then addressing our fickle and highly biased foreign policy; would be the first steps.
That would expose the true terrorists for what they are and seperate them from the one's who actually have a good, valid reason to be angry with the USA and hold a grudge.
exactly. we had the world on our side, everyone condemned the attacks. most of the Arab world was willing to pretty much give us full support in diplomatic ways of handling it... not bombing and occupying Afghanistan...
Terrorism will never die and I think we should all just deal with it and keep to our god damn selves. It's so stupid to spend billions a week on the "war on terror" when it looks like we haven't even made a dent after 8 years. How much have we spent? The US just keeps digging itself into a hole with all the attention going to terrorism when we have debts to China. If I ever get a chance to move out of the US I am taking it.
Just like the war on drugs, the war against terrorism is just a metaphoric catch all phrase to control, whether it's land, natural resources, financial resources, intellectual resources, people or whole governments these idealistic concept of wars have no ending. Moving to another country will not solve your problem because the war on terrorism is based on superiority. The concept that my way of thinking, of living, and of being me, is better than yours and you. There is no live and let live those words are viewed as non-conformist terrorist rhetoric.
SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
exactly. we had the world on our side, everyone condemned the attacks. most of the Arab world was willing to pretty much give us full support in diplomatic ways of handling it... not bombing and occupying Afghanistan...
Or Iraq.
That was like being given the key to a city and full free access to anything and everything any given city has to offer.
But instead of using humility, integrity, thoughtfullness and intellect; you go get get drunk out of your mind, get behind the wheel of a 1970's four door Cadillac and then drive your drunk-ass wrecklessly through the streets, sidewalks, Malls and run over a few hundred innocent pedestrians and shoppers.
Terrorism will never die and I think we should all just deal with it and keep to our god damn selves. It's so stupid to spend billions a week on the "war on terror" when it looks like we haven't even made a dent after 8 years. How much have we spent? The US just keeps digging itself into a hole with all the attention going to terrorism when we have debts to China. If I ever get a chance to move out of the US I am taking it.
I'm not even afraid of Al-Qaida. They had one good day. And they had to buy a plane ticket to do it.
Actually, believe it or not, most Arabs are not happy with the occupation of Afghanistan.
Well, shit, most Southerners weren't happy with the Civil War. Sometimes in this world, you have to do what you have to do, no matter how many people you offend.
Ousting the Taliban is one of those things that needed to be done.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Well, shit, most Southerners weren't happy with the Civil War. Sometimes in this world, you have to do what you have to do, no matter how many people you offend.
Ousting the Taliban is one of those things that needed to be done.
Invading Afghanistan was a terrible crime against the people of Afghanistan.
It's a shame their government put them in that situation.
I was going to post the same thing.
We agree a lot for two people who vote on opposite sides of the spectrum.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
From what i understand, Iran is a pleasant place to relocate. Nothing but peace loving, neighborly types there.
LOL!!!
I can put anyone interested in touch with my GF's family who lives there. They can tell you all about there wonderful gov't.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Well, if you consider occupying various foreign nations in the middle east along with meddling with the internal affairs of those countries as "doing nothing" then I guess you are right, "doing nothing" got us 9/11.
Well, if you consider occupying various foreign nations in the middle east along with meddling with the internal affairs of those countries as "doing nothing" then I guess you are right, "doing nothing" got us 9/11.
And here comes the Blame America First crowd, right on cue ...
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Fighting terrorism is something we SHOULD do. We were doing it long before 9-11. The problem is that the administration has used fear tactics to label basically anyone with different political views as "linked to Al Qaeda". The Neo-Cons have used that as an excuse to buy a lot of oil and military equipment and establish bases to project power from.
We, as a people, need to learn to stop allowing our leaders to sacrifice the values the country was built on in order to "keep us safe". Eroding our civil liberties is a slippery slope that begins with holding someone without charging them that results in imprisoning people people without chargng them. That's not very far way from the Black Maria days.
exactly. we had the world on our side, everyone condemned the attacks. most of the Arab world was willing to pretty much give us full support in diplomatic ways of handling it... not bombing and occupying Afghanistan...
and you know this how? not saying it is false but i am just wondering what conenctions you have to the Arab world wher you can say this.
People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
I think folks need to do a better job differentiating between Iraq and Afghanistan. We needed to go to Afghanistan for multiple reasons. The Taliban REALLY is evil and REALLY was training groups for attacks on the US. The Taliban was also probably one of the most repressive regimes in the world. Most press, even Al-Jazeera, supported US intervention in Afghanistan in initially. That's not to say that Arab and Islamic nations don't watch the happenings there with a suspicious eye, we've given them justification for that. Now, our efforts there haven't made everyone happy, but we were very justified in establishing a presence there. We've actually had one there since the 1980s.
Comments
Boom.... there it is...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
In Noam Chomsky's book, "Pirates and Emperors, International Terrorism in the Real World", he tells this story, attributed to St. Augustine. A captured pirate was brought before Alexander the Great. "How dare you molest the sea?, said Alexander. How dare you molest the whole world?" replied the pirate and continued: "Because I do it with a little ship only I am called a thief; you, doing it with a great navy are called emperor."
"The rich and powerful have every right to demand that they be left in peace to enjoy what they have gained, often by violence and terror; the rest can be ignored as long as they suffer in silence, but if they interfere with the lives of those who rule the world by right, the 'terrors of the earth' will be visited upon them with righteous wrath, unless power is constrained from within." - Winston Churchill
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Surely, it's just a matter of time before these monsters attack again. Just when the political time is right...
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmgphotos/4731512142/" title="PJ Banner2 by Mister J Photography, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1135/4731512142_258f2d6ab4_b.jpg" width="630" height="112" alt="PJ Banner2" /></a>
whatever you Obama hating anti-semite who wants to wipe Israel off the map!
you can't fool me!
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Exactly.
The war on Terror was a noble fight fought AWFULLY by the Bush Administration for taking it to Iraq.
Bush is to blame for the world hating us not us going after Terrorists.
I believe if we kept up the fight we originally started we would still have most of the world on our side.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
I believe this has more to do with Iraq then Afghanistan. We can do no right in the Arab world's eyes right now so they hate on all of our activity in the region.
Had we stuck to Afghanistan, Pakistan, etc we would have had more support. Maybe not full support but more support.
Iraq was where the whole world turned and 100% of the Arab world.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Anyone who has a true interest in fighting Terrorism and the Terrorists commiting it, would know that you can't fight it this way.
Diplomacy (without appeasment and pandering), Policy changes and a thorough investigation of it all; would be the first step to fighting Terrorism.
With our government and corporate interests, cleaning up our own backyard first and then addressing our fickle and highly biased foreign policy; would be the first steps.
That would expose the true terrorists for what they are and seperate them from the one's who actually have a good, valid reason to be angry with the USA and hold a grudge.
The noble war on terror
hahahahah! (hahahaa)
Let's just say I'm not convinced in the least.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Some of big players include:
Dick Cheney
Donald Rumsfeld
Paul Wolfowitz
Jeb Bush
Lewis Libby
Richard Perle
....also Douglas Feith, Bill Kristal, Elliot Abrams, Aaron Friedberg, Donald Kagan, Robert Kagan, Stephen Rosen (the AIPAC employee caught spying on the US) Eliot A. Cohen, Paula Dobriansky, Fred C. Ikle, and Norman Podhoretz, All Zionists and all Jewish. That's not anti-Semetic it's just the truth and what that means is they have dual citizenship and put the another nation's interests ahead of the US.
Who is doing what? Is it Israel now, or the US....dual-citizens making big (huge) policies seem to abound...
hmm
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Just like the war on drugs, the war against terrorism is just a metaphoric catch all phrase to control, whether it's land, natural resources, financial resources, intellectual resources, people or whole governments these idealistic concept of wars have no ending. Moving to another country will not solve your problem because the war on terrorism is based on superiority. The concept that my way of thinking, of living, and of being me, is better than yours and you. There is no live and let live those words are viewed as non-conformist terrorist rhetoric.
Or Iraq.
That was like being given the key to a city and full free access to anything and everything any given city has to offer.
But instead of using humility, integrity, thoughtfullness and intellect; you go get get drunk out of your mind, get behind the wheel of a 1970's four door Cadillac and then drive your drunk-ass wrecklessly through the streets, sidewalks, Malls and run over a few hundred innocent pedestrians and shoppers.
Well, shit, most Southerners weren't happy with the Civil War. Sometimes in this world, you have to do what you have to do, no matter how many people you offend.
Ousting the Taliban is one of those things that needed to be done.
for the least they could possibly do
That's true.
It's a shame their government put them in that situation.
for the least they could possibly do
From what i understand, Iran is a pleasant place to relocate. Nothing but peace loving, neighborly types there.
I was going to post the same thing.
We agree a lot for two people who vote on opposite sides of the spectrum.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
LOL!!!
I can put anyone interested in touch with my GF's family who lives there. They can tell you all about there wonderful gov't.
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Well, if you consider occupying various foreign nations in the middle east along with meddling with the internal affairs of those countries as "doing nothing" then I guess you are right, "doing nothing" got us 9/11.
And here comes the Blame America First crowd, right on cue ...
for the least they could possibly do
We, as a people, need to learn to stop allowing our leaders to sacrifice the values the country was built on in order to "keep us safe". Eroding our civil liberties is a slippery slope that begins with holding someone without charging them that results in imprisoning people people without chargng them. That's not very far way from the Black Maria days.
Actually, I didn't say that at all. Some other fella did.
Although, I suppose I could have.
for the least they could possibly do
and you know this how? not saying it is false but i am just wondering what conenctions you have to the Arab world wher you can say this.
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
- Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)