Sure, but when you pick someone who is pro iraq war (The main issue that started the Obama run with him being against it) and Israel which is another top subject which I'm sure you will agree is a major reason for terrorism in many cases and American troubles in the world.n Or at the very least a factor with American policy.
How can we look at this and just say 'It's not an issue'. Dude, Should we let this choice slide?
I think People should worry at the way this is already going, on the first choice! Well second after Biden.
Is that not fair to say?
there is NO WAY Obama could select only people who were firmly against the war in Iraq ... NO WAY, there were not enough people in politics that felt that way. Hell, Joe Biden voted for the war.
But just because Obama is hiring people that did initially back the war, it doesn't mean they are not smart, competent people ....
The important part was making sure our leader would be smart enough not to take us into that war.
edit- do you think McCain would have only hired people that supported the Surge??
"You're one of the few Red Sox fans I don't mind." - Newch91
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
there is NO WAY Obama could select only people who were firmly against the war in Iraq ... NO WAY, there were not enough people in politics that felt that way. Hell, Joe Biden voted for the war.
But just because Obama is hiring people that did initially back the war, it doesn't mean they are not smart, competent people ....
The important part was making sure our leader would be smart enough not to take us into that war.
edit- do you think McCain would have only hired people that supported the Surge??
Fair enough, but if you listen to his agenda, then it becomes another story. Remember he still supported the war years after. His stance on Israel shows a huge bias.
I'm simply saying that this is a very poor choice. Someone who does not represent any change. You just cant argue with that.
Oh and another thing, he only started to support Obama after the Aipac speech, that in itself shows that this is VERY MUCH about Israel.
yeah... that's what happened.... :rolleyes:
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
You dont think the Israeli dick in your ass affects you more than to rank it 152nd on your list of things to worry about?
You are the one whos delusional.
I'm sitting down just fine thank you....
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
Fair enough, but if you listen to his agenda, then it becomes another story. Remember he still supported the war years after. His stance on Israel shows a huge bias.
I'm simply saying that this is a very poor choice. Someone who does not represent any change. You just cant argue with that.
haha ... i see you like pissing on other people's parade ...
I think enough evidence is around to show that Israel are the aggressors. Not to say that the Palestinians have done everything right.
Also Americas 100% support of Israel is hands down a major factor. Hands down.
It's an excuse for violence, not a reason.
Terrorists are "hands down" responsible for terrorism, period. way to excuse the inexcusable. I'm sure US policies are "hands down" responsible for the deaths of 3,000+ people on 9/11. Terrorists hiding behind the idea of "oppression" do not desire any form of peace, that's the only thing "hands-down" about that. They want an Islamic world order, "hands down"
The evidence, namely history, suggests to me that it's impossible to determine who's "right" on the question of Isreal/Palestine.
haha ... i see you like pissing on other people's parade ...
It was a toilet parade anyway might as well put it to good use.
---
Serioulsy, I enjoy this forum and enjoy the people I get into debates with. We all have something to learn and something to say and I hope a common goal of improving this world.
Which I believe will not happen if America continues it's 100% support of Israel and by picking people who have poor track records then saying 'change'
But as jim said, he has not accepted the role yet. But whatever happens the choice Obama made shows something not so positive and does not give me much hope.
Yes Thats fine, but defend the choice Obama made, dont go after me. Argue against my points. Show me that my stances are wrong.
After I have time to go home and read a bit more about this person and his background and why President elect Obama picked him, then I'll be able to defend or not his choice, I don like pulling things out of thin air just for the sake of argument... which is why I was only reading this thread until I felt the need to call you out on what you said...
I just thought the comment you made was uncalled for and to argue positions you dont need to be so offensive and disrespectful...
"Without the album covers, where do you clean your pot?" - EV
Terrorists are "hands down" responsible for terrorism, period. way to excuse the inexcusable. I'm sure US policies are "hands down" responsible for the deaths of 3,000+ people on 9/11. Terrorists hiding behind the idea of "oppression" do not desire any form of peace, that's the only thing "hands-down" about that. They want an Islamic world order, "hands down"
The evidence, namely history, suggests to me that it's impossible to determine who's "right" on the question of Isreal/Palestine.
When we get past that, we can move on.
You see this is not fair, people had land taken from them and are fighting back. then everyone wants them to move on. it's just not right.
not only that, what about the constant land grabs?
I'm sorry but this Islamic world order is perhaps a small fraction of them and should not take away from the entire cause of fighting against injustice with the only means they have. In the case of Israel and palestine...suicide bombings.
btw Palestine had many many peace groups years before they used this kind of terrorism. Those groups were taken apart by Israel.
Also before the state of israel was created...Jews,Muslims and christinians lived in Palestine in a relative peace. Fact. It was only after the creation that it all started again.
It was a toilet parade anyway might as well put it to good use.
---
Serioulsy, I enjoy this forum and enjoy the people I get into debates with. We all have something to learn and something to say and I hope a common goal of improving this world.
Which I believe will not happen if America continues it's 100% support of Israel and by picking people who have poor track records then saying 'change'
But as jim said, he has not accepted the role yet. But whatever happens the choice Obama made shows something not so positive and does not give me much hope.
haha ... hey, i'm with you ... i think you'd get a better ear for it tho in a year or so ... not to say obama supporters are blind as I think they have very good reasons to support him but they just aren't ready to hear anything bad about him for the next little while ... no one wants to come down from their high right now ...
i think the oppression and violence committed against palestinians is one of the biggest human rights issue in the world today - we all know unconditional support by the US on that front is not a solution to the problem but as far as today or tomorrow or next week - the issue just isn't important to some ...
You see this is not fair, people had land taken from them and are fighting back. then everyone wants them to move on. it's just not right.
not only that, what about the constant land grabs?
I'm sorry but this Islamic world order is perhaps a small fraction of them and should not take away from the entire cause of fighting against injustice with the only means they have. In the case of Israel and palestine...suicide bombings.
btw Palestine had many many peace groups years before they used this kind of terrorism. Those groups were taken apart by Israel.
Also before the state of israel was created...Jews,Muslims and christinians lived in Palestine in a relative peace. Fact. It was only after the creation that it all started again.
well, to be perfectly accurate, Palestinians are exiles from Egypt (i believe) settling in a land that was, before then, a land of exiled Irealites. Before then, it was a free-for-all region.
whack jobs on both sides have assasinated their own leaders who were on the verge of achieveing a sustainable peace.
The point is no one is going anywhere, The isrealis aren't going anywhere, and neither are the palestinians. Unless BOTH of these peoples realize that reality, the conflict (and apologetic theories like the one you present) give terrorists, Islamo- or otherwise, a false justification for the terrorismthey commit.
Blame Jews all you want, it's not going to get us anywhere.
Let the losers be angry and lick their wounds. I have been doing that for the past 8 years.
I am sure life has been just terrible for you over that period, including unprecedented prosperity and not one single act of terrorism commited here since '01, after Clinton failed to dispose of Bin Laden not once but at least THREE TIMES. There's enough criticsm for Bush to be had, but if we're keeping score...
We are the winners/losers to be, let's focus on that.
I really have no opinion about this but it will be interesting to find out what my Jewish friend thinks about this. When I spoke with him last week he was convinced Obama was Muslim, terrorist, carpetbagger, socialist etc....
Does anyone have an opinion that doesn't eventually come back to a religious viewpoint?
all of his positions are right here, judge for yourself.
again, a rank-and-file democrat. The critcism I propose is that if we think Obama's desire is to move to the center, this move isn't really selling me.
Let the losers be angry and lick their wounds. I have been doing that for the past 8 years.
You act as if everyone who is going after Obama now was backing Bush for the past 8 years.
I dont think you understand whats going on. But i'm glad you got mrs vedder and the gang in a nice circle jerk.
I'm just asking to defend his choice. What do Obama supporters say about a man who screamed 'change' and 'move forward', then right away starts to walk backwards.
Comments
and you are rude and obnoxious ...
there is NO WAY Obama could select only people who were firmly against the war in Iraq ... NO WAY, there were not enough people in politics that felt that way. Hell, Joe Biden voted for the war.
But just because Obama is hiring people that did initially back the war, it doesn't mean they are not smart, competent people ....
The important part was making sure our leader would be smart enough not to take us into that war.
edit- do you think McCain would have only hired people that supported the Surge??
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
granted, McCain ran a poor campaign, we all can agree on that.
now moving back to the President-elect...
well played.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
Yes Thats fine, but defend the choice Obama made, dont go after me. Argue against my points. Show me that my stances are wrong.
Fair enough, but if you listen to his agenda, then it becomes another story. Remember he still supported the war years after. His stance on Israel shows a huge bias.
I'm simply saying that this is a very poor choice. Someone who does not represent any change. You just cant argue with that.
wow, for real? We're talking about folks who assasinate their own leaders as soon as peace is about to be made there. c'mon.
yeah... that's what happened.... :rolleyes:
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I'm sitting down just fine thank you....
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
haha ... i see you like pissing on other people's parade ...
I think enough evidence is around to show that Israel are the aggressors. Not to say that the Palestinians have done everything right.
Also Americas 100% support of Israel is hands down a major factor. Hands down.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
errr, I think he said it himself. I'll try and dig it up for you.
It's an excuse for violence, not a reason.
Terrorists are "hands down" responsible for terrorism, period. way to excuse the inexcusable. I'm sure US policies are "hands down" responsible for the deaths of 3,000+ people on 9/11. Terrorists hiding behind the idea of "oppression" do not desire any form of peace, that's the only thing "hands-down" about that. They want an Islamic world order, "hands down"
The evidence, namely history, suggests to me that it's impossible to determine who's "right" on the question of Isreal/Palestine.
When we get past that, we can move on.
It was a toilet parade anyway
---
Serioulsy, I enjoy this forum and enjoy the people I get into debates with. We all have something to learn and something to say and I hope a common goal of improving this world.
Which I believe will not happen if America continues it's 100% support of Israel and by picking people who have poor track records then saying 'change'
But as jim said, he has not accepted the role yet. But whatever happens the choice Obama made shows something not so positive and does not give me much hope.
After I have time to go home and read a bit more about this person and his background and why President elect Obama picked him, then I'll be able to defend or not his choice, I don like pulling things out of thin air just for the sake of argument... which is why I was only reading this thread until I felt the need to call you out on what you said...
I just thought the comment you made was uncalled for and to argue positions you dont need to be so offensive and disrespectful...
You see this is not fair, people had land taken from them and are fighting back. then everyone wants them to move on. it's just not right.
not only that, what about the constant land grabs?
I'm sorry but this Islamic world order is perhaps a small fraction of them and should not take away from the entire cause of fighting against injustice with the only means they have. In the case of Israel and palestine...suicide bombings.
btw Palestine had many many peace groups years before they used this kind of terrorism. Those groups were taken apart by Israel.
Also before the state of israel was created...Jews,Muslims and christinians lived in Palestine in a relative peace. Fact. It was only after the creation that it all started again.
haha ... hey, i'm with you ... i think you'd get a better ear for it tho in a year or so ... not to say obama supporters are blind as I think they have very good reasons to support him but they just aren't ready to hear anything bad about him for the next little while ... no one wants to come down from their high right now ...
i think the oppression and violence committed against palestinians is one of the biggest human rights issue in the world today - we all know unconditional support by the US on that front is not a solution to the problem but as far as today or tomorrow or next week - the issue just isn't important to some ...
well, to be perfectly accurate, Palestinians are exiles from Egypt (i believe) settling in a land that was, before then, a land of exiled Irealites. Before then, it was a free-for-all region.
whack jobs on both sides have assasinated their own leaders who were on the verge of achieveing a sustainable peace.
The point is no one is going anywhere, The isrealis aren't going anywhere, and neither are the palestinians. Unless BOTH of these peoples realize that reality, the conflict (and apologetic theories like the one you present) give terrorists, Islamo- or otherwise, a false justification for the terrorismthey commit.
Blame Jews all you want, it's not going to get us anywhere.
http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm
Thing is... he just did
Let the losers be angry and lick their wounds. I have been doing that for the past 8 years.
"I don't believe in damn curses. Wake up the damn Bambino and have me face him. Maybe I'll drill him in the ass." --- Pedro Martinez
I am sure life has been just terrible for you over that period, including unprecedented prosperity and not one single act of terrorism commited here since '01, after Clinton failed to dispose of Bin Laden not once but at least THREE TIMES. There's enough criticsm for Bush to be had, but if we're keeping score...
We are the winners/losers to be, let's focus on that.
luv it!
Where have you been? The only thing W hasn't been blamed for is my wife getting pregnant...wait a minute....damn that shrub!!!!!!!!!!!
Obama is probably monitoring AMT to see what people think...then the guy will "accept" or "decline".
MrBrian is trying to stir things up here on thsi front...is that you BHusseinO? Testing the waters?
I really have no opinion about this but it will be interesting to find out what my Jewish friend thinks about this. When I spoke with him last week he was convinced Obama was Muslim, terrorist, carpetbagger, socialist etc....
Does anyone have an opinion that doesn't eventually come back to a religious viewpoint?
all of his positions are right here, judge for yourself.
again, a rank-and-file democrat. The critcism I propose is that if we think Obama's desire is to move to the center, this move isn't really selling me.
You act as if everyone who is going after Obama now was backing Bush for the past 8 years.
I dont think you understand whats going on. But i'm glad you got mrs vedder and the gang in a nice circle jerk.
I'm just asking to defend his choice. What do Obama supporters say about a man who screamed 'change' and 'move forward', then right away starts to walk backwards.