Give me examples of middle class jobs that are stolen; our definitions must be different. If that is what you're angry about then you should be upset with the employers not the employees. Who wouldn't try to improve their life buy taking a job that's given to them....
Regarding benefits, im fairly certain that 90% of the jobs that illegals take certainly dont offer them benefits.
I see carpenters, bricklayers, cement masons...etc. All are being replaced with illegals around here. In fact it has gotten so bad that the general contractor made the companies all sign agreements that they have one English speaking competent person on the project at all times.
Of course they don't have benefits, that is what makes them so cheap to employ. The business owner doesn't pay for any benefits, doesn't have to pay for workers comp, nothing. One of these guys gets hurt, tough, they get another the next day.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
The product may be made in America but that doesn't mean that they didn't use illegals to make it. Illegals come over here because they know they can find work. If you started punishing companies who hired illegals then their would be no opportunities for them over here.
The problem is that our government is not going to severely punish large corporations or companies that hire illegals. Yes they may fine them but continuing to hire illegals is still far more profitable, so they will pay the petty fine and continue as usual. They are the root of the problem. Take care of these companies and the opportunities will dry up and in return that may put an end to the large influx of illegals that cross the borders.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I go out of my way to, yes. I also knowingly pay extra. For example I'm building a Jeep and I needed quite a few of Grade 8 bolts. So I went to Fastenal and told them exactly what I needed, he goes away for about fifteen minutes. When he came back he had about 20 different sizes of bolts, in counts of 10-25 each. Out of the 20 some sizes that I needed only four were Made in USA. I told him to put the rest back. He looked at me like I was crazy. I told him if he could give me the sizes in USA made bolts I would buy those instead. Then came the standard well I've got to order them and they will be more response. I told him to go ahead. It took another day and for about 250 bolts it came out to an extra $10 for USA made. Otherwise I would have had bolts made in Taiwan and China, no thanks.
Now I'm not an idiot, I have a TV that is not USA made, but I buy USA made whenever I can as there aren't many TV's made in the US. If any. I also quit using Colgate toothpaste because it is made in Mexico. I now use Rembrandt. I needed a pair of Carhartt jeans so I went to buy a pair, they were also Made in Mexico. I made a couple of phone calls and found that small denim shops still have Made in the USA Carhartts, big box stores have their Carhartt lines Made in Mexico.
And yes the employers should be punished. First with a warning, second with a fine, third with jail time.
Well, it sounds like you're making a mighty impressive effort. But I still think you're contributing to the "problem" if you buy ANYTHING that's made outside the USA and/or by anyone who's not American.
There are little Mexican children with full bellies now that I'm all moved in. Great workers, didn't speak a lick of English though!
The white high-school kid that missed out on the labor won't be able to go to the movies this weekend or take his gf out for dinner and probably won't get in her pants :(
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
Give me examples of middle class jobs that are stolen;
This right here is really why I'm really pretty indifferent to this issue.
I have no sympathy for people who didn't get an education or learn a skilled trade. If you're an unskilled, under-educated laborer, you've choosen that lot in life at the bottom rung of the work force in a capitalist country and have to deal with the stresses and hardships that come with it.
And that includes having wages driven down in shit jobs due to illegal and legal immigrants willing to work harder than you for much less pay.
Life is what you make of it. Don't want to deal with that? Get an education or learn a trade.
As for buying American, I couldn't care less. Hell I go out of my way not to buy American made vehicles. Last car was a Subaru, current is a Mazda. I just buy what I like and what I think is the best quality. I have nothing against America, but I have nothing against the most of the rest of the world either. Thus I just buy what I like without worrying where it was made.
2000: Pittsburgh
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
One thing I'll never understand is this...
Those people who tend to drag out the patriotism flag and wave it in the face of illegal immigrants... siding with 'Their Countrymen' and all that crap...
are the SAME ones who HATE 50% of the American people.
They HATE Democrats (liberals, Blue states, whatevers) because of their political views (opinions)... they HATE the poorest Americans who live in poverty, like poverty is a lifestyle choice.
...
Someone... please... explain.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
This right here is really why I'm really pretty indifferent to this issue.
I have no sympathy for people who didn't get an education or learn a skilled trade. If you're an unskilled, under-educated laborer, you've choosen that lot in life at the bottom rung of the work force in a capitalist country and have to deal with the stresses and hardships that come with it.
And that includes having wages driven down in shit jobs due to illegal and legal immigrants willing to work harder than you for much less pay.
Life is what you make of it. Don't want to deal with that? Get an education or learn a trade.
As for buying American, I couldn't care less. Hell I go out of my way not to buy American made vehicles. Last car was a Subaru, current is a Mazda. I just buy what I like and what I think is the best quality. I have nothing against America, but I have nothing against the most of the rest of the world either. Thus I just buy what I like without worrying where it was made.
Well said. It is incredibly easy to take a few years, even a few months, to learn a trade or get an education so that you provide value to an employer.
As for the "buy American cars" issue, there is absolutely no valid argument for buying American EXCEPT for the fact that most US vehicle manufacturers' stocks are typically held by Americans. Foreign cars are built in the US just as much as a Ford or GM.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
One thing I'll never understand is this...
Those people who tend to drag out the patriotism flag and wave it in the face of illegal immigrants... siding with 'Their Countrymen' and all that crap...
are the SAME ones who HATE 50% of the American people.
They HATE Democrats (liberals, Blue states, whatevers) because of their political views (opinions)... they HATE the poorest Americans who live in poverty, like poverty is a lifestyle choice.
...
Someone... please... explain.
Such people are just assholes and think they are the only true Americans and everyone who differs from their status/values/beliefs etc. are a scourge on society.
In truth, such people stand against everything that a true American is as the country was founded on tolerance and being a melting pot.....that whole slavery thing aside of course. So in truth, America has never lived up to the ideals it was founded on right from day one.
2000: Pittsburgh
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
One thing I'll never understand is this...
Those people who tend to drag out the patriotism flag and wave it in the face of illegal immigrants... siding with 'Their Countrymen' and all that crap...
are the SAME ones who HATE 50% of the American people.
They HATE Democrats (liberals, Blue states, whatevers) because of their political views (opinions)... they HATE the poorest Americans who live in poverty, like poverty is a lifestyle choice.
...
Someone... please... explain.
yeah, they are ALL like that. Lumping people together and then hating them for stupid reasons..the nerve of THOSE people.
Well said. It is incredibly easy to take a few years, even a few months, to learn a trade or get an education so that you provide value to an employer.
.
yeah. poor people are so stupid and lazy. why else would they be poor!?
yeah. poor people are so stupid and lazy. why else would they be poor!?
who said stupid? and did I say I was rich?
It may be unfortunate but we live in a capitalist world and if you don't make yourself more valuable than an illegal immigrant to your employer... you will continue to be poor. Apathy? Laziness? Maybe...
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
There's nothing illegal about them. They're called immigrants and nearly all Americans have ties to them one way or another. Lighten up and be human for fuck's sake.
yeah, they are ALL like that. Lumping people together and then hating them for stupid reasons..the nerve of THOSE people.
...
Okay, then... let me fully qualify that statement...
Those people... who post here... and drag out the patriotism flag, etc... etc... etc...
I guess i was wrong in taking this little sample and applying it to the General public... because OF COURSE... there are Immigrant hating Americans who appreciate and embrace opposing thoughts, actions and opinions of their Liberal thinking bretheren and who share the belief in helping out our poorest citizens with collective aid. I am just guessing they are probably greatly outnumbered.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
Boy... that Paris Hilton must be really smart and bust her ass at work everyday... she's really rich... she MUST be real smart and work real hard.
Some people are born into wealth. Most are not and must work for success.
But this hyperbole adds nothing to the topic. It doesn't take much effort to have enough education or trade skill to be able to do work that an illegal immigrant can't. That's the issue at hand. Not that some rich people never had to work a day in their life to get where they are, or everyone who works hard will become rich. Life isn't fair.
Not everyone who works or studies hard will be rich, but they should all be able to make a decent, modest living at the least and not have to worry about losing their jobs to unskilled, uneducated illegal immigrants who speak little or no English.
2000: Pittsburgh
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
...
Okay, then... let me fully qualify that statement...
Those people... who post here... and drag out the patriotism flag, etc... etc... etc...
I guess i was wrong in taking this little sample and applying it to the General public... because OF COURSE... there are Immigrant hating Americans who appreciate and embrace opposing thoughts, actions and opinions of their Liberal thinking bretheren and who share the belief in helping out our poorest citizens with collective aid. I am just guessing they are probably greatly outnumbered.
immigrant hating who? who here said they hate immigrants? if i lived in Bumfuck, Mexico i'd want to come here too. Doesnt mean im pro-illegal immigration. its possible to be anti-illegal immigration and NOT be a racist.
Vast quantities of second class citizens doing shit jobs for less pay and no benefits DOESNT sound like a potential problem? How so?
Vast quantities of second class citizens doing shit jobs for less pay and no benefits DOESNT sound like a potential problem? How so?
...
Isn't it is beneficial to the companies who can increase production and lower operating costs? And those companies that show greater profit margins... well, isn't their worth increased. And if the price of their stocks increases... don't the shareholders benefit?
And on a smaller scale... isn't it better for a small business owner to keep his costs (payroll) down and still provide a product or service at a lower price?
And closer to home... do you benefit from cheap labor bringing you food to your table at lower costs? Imagine all of those shit jobs... paying minimum wage to Americans, providing safe working conditions... paying medical insurance... workman's compensation... and all of those other operating costs they are not paying for with illegal workers... and passing all of those increased costs to you. A Benefit?
...
And don't you ever wonder why it's always aimed at 'Jose Mexican'... walls.. raids... deportation... And rarely, if ever... at the companies who hire them? The Human Resources Director says, 'But, she had a Social Security Number...how was I to know that Maria Martinez wasn't really Helga Von Kleekenberg?' And we let him off the hook. Isn't that the same as the immigrant saying, 'No habla Engles'?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
There's nothing illegal about them. They're called immigrants and nearly all Americans have ties to them one way or another. Lighten up and be human for fuck's sake.
you spend so much time just bitching about immigrants. go back to school and get a real fucking job that can't be taken away by $5/hour mexican labor if you have such a problem with it.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
you spend so much time just bitching about immigrants. go back to school and get a real fucking job that can't be taken away by $5/hour mexican labor if you have such a problem with it.
You know nothing about me. I have no worries about losing my job to some third world uneducated manual laborer. However there are Americans that do. People like you sit and complain about how we should help the poor, get them UHC, give them whatever else they need to survive. Then you come on here and support their biggest enemies, people who are taking the lower paying jobs that they need. There are poor citizens in this country who can't afford an education, can't afford food, gas, etc. So we should just sweep them under the rug and let people from another country come here illegally and take money from them because the illegals bunk 20 to a room, and are used to making $5 a day?
I'll bet you wish for another Katrina every day huh? Screw our poor people. We've got millions of Hispanics and asians and whoever that will fill that void.
Another America hater, you don't like our people then get your ass out of here.
Another America hater, you don't like our people then get your ass out of here.
Can we PLEASE retire this inflated-patriotism "America hater" rhetoric once and for all??? Just because someone has a different view or opinion about our country or policies, doesn't mean they hate America.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
You know nothing about me. I have no worries about losing my job to some third world uneducated manual laborer. However there are Americans that do. People like you sit and complain about how we should help the poor, get them UHC, give them whatever else they need to survive. Then you come on here and support their biggest enemies, people who are taking the lower paying jobs that they need.
I'm not very sympathetic to the uneducated poor who have no skills that can't be done by an even less educated immigrant who speaks no English. We should do what we can to lessen illegal immigration, but the main part of that is going to be more legal immigrants or work permits etc. so the jobs are still going to go to immigrants (legal or illegal) who will work harder for less money.
And I don't think such people should be just given health care and other handouts. These government handouts should be coupled with required attendance in education or job training programs that the government should be providing so that these people can get some skills to get a job and at least make ends meet rather than just being a burden on society.
If we're going to have to spend a lot of tax money on people who fucked up their lives and can't make it on their own, a good chunk of it should be going towards giving them some skills so they can make it on their own and get off of welfare. Not just throwing money and benefits after them which gives them little or no incentive to better themselves vs. just sitting on their assess and collecting handouts.
America was formed off of people with nothing coming here and making a life for themselves through hard work. As we've moved out of the industrial revolution/era that's meant working hard and getting a good education or learning a marketable trade skill.
That's what being American is. The American dream is through hard work you can achieve success, not that every citizen deserves success regardless of the work they put into getting an education or learning a trade.
2000: Pittsburgh
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
Comments
I see carpenters, bricklayers, cement masons...etc. All are being replaced with illegals around here. In fact it has gotten so bad that the general contractor made the companies all sign agreements that they have one English speaking competent person on the project at all times.
Of course they don't have benefits, that is what makes them so cheap to employ. The business owner doesn't pay for any benefits, doesn't have to pay for workers comp, nothing. One of these guys gets hurt, tough, they get another the next day.
Like I said I'm all for that.
The problem is that our government is not going to severely punish large corporations or companies that hire illegals. Yes they may fine them but continuing to hire illegals is still far more profitable, so they will pay the petty fine and continue as usual. They are the root of the problem. Take care of these companies and the opportunities will dry up and in return that may put an end to the large influx of illegals that cross the borders.
Well, it sounds like you're making a mighty impressive effort. But I still think you're contributing to the "problem" if you buy ANYTHING that's made outside the USA and/or by anyone who's not American.
The white high-school kid that missed out on the labor won't be able to go to the movies this weekend or take his gf out for dinner and probably won't get in her pants :(
This right here is really why I'm really pretty indifferent to this issue.
I have no sympathy for people who didn't get an education or learn a skilled trade. If you're an unskilled, under-educated laborer, you've choosen that lot in life at the bottom rung of the work force in a capitalist country and have to deal with the stresses and hardships that come with it.
And that includes having wages driven down in shit jobs due to illegal and legal immigrants willing to work harder than you for much less pay.
Life is what you make of it. Don't want to deal with that? Get an education or learn a trade.
As for buying American, I couldn't care less. Hell I go out of my way not to buy American made vehicles. Last car was a Subaru, current is a Mazda. I just buy what I like and what I think is the best quality. I have nothing against America, but I have nothing against the most of the rest of the world either. Thus I just buy what I like without worrying where it was made.
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
Those people who tend to drag out the patriotism flag and wave it in the face of illegal immigrants... siding with 'Their Countrymen' and all that crap...
are the SAME ones who HATE 50% of the American people.
They HATE Democrats (liberals, Blue states, whatevers) because of their political views (opinions)... they HATE the poorest Americans who live in poverty, like poverty is a lifestyle choice.
...
Someone... please... explain.
Hail, Hail!!!
Well said. It is incredibly easy to take a few years, even a few months, to learn a trade or get an education so that you provide value to an employer.
As for the "buy American cars" issue, there is absolutely no valid argument for buying American EXCEPT for the fact that most US vehicle manufacturers' stocks are typically held by Americans. Foreign cars are built in the US just as much as a Ford or GM.
Such people are just assholes and think they are the only true Americans and everyone who differs from their status/values/beliefs etc. are a scourge on society.
In truth, such people stand against everything that a true American is as the country was founded on tolerance and being a melting pot.....that whole slavery thing aside of course. So in truth, America has never lived up to the ideals it was founded on right from day one.
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
who said stupid? and did I say I was rich?
It may be unfortunate but we live in a capitalist world and if you don't make yourself more valuable than an illegal immigrant to your employer... you will continue to be poor. Apathy? Laziness? Maybe...
Okay, then... let me fully qualify that statement...
Those people... who post here... and drag out the patriotism flag, etc... etc... etc...
I guess i was wrong in taking this little sample and applying it to the General public... because OF COURSE... there are Immigrant hating Americans who appreciate and embrace opposing thoughts, actions and opinions of their Liberal thinking bretheren and who share the belief in helping out our poorest citizens with collective aid. I am just guessing they are probably greatly outnumbered.
Hail, Hail!!!
Boy... that Paris Hilton must be really smart and bust her ass at work everyday... she's really rich... she MUST be real smart and work real hard.
Hail, Hail!!!
Some people are born into wealth. Most are not and must work for success.
But this hyperbole adds nothing to the topic. It doesn't take much effort to have enough education or trade skill to be able to do work that an illegal immigrant can't. That's the issue at hand. Not that some rich people never had to work a day in their life to get where they are, or everyone who works hard will become rich. Life isn't fair.
Not everyone who works or studies hard will be rich, but they should all be able to make a decent, modest living at the least and not have to worry about losing their jobs to unskilled, uneducated illegal immigrants who speak little or no English.
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II
Vast quantities of second class citizens doing shit jobs for less pay and no benefits DOESNT sound like a potential problem? How so?
yeah exactly.
Isn't it is beneficial to the companies who can increase production and lower operating costs? And those companies that show greater profit margins... well, isn't their worth increased. And if the price of their stocks increases... don't the shareholders benefit?
And on a smaller scale... isn't it better for a small business owner to keep his costs (payroll) down and still provide a product or service at a lower price?
And closer to home... do you benefit from cheap labor bringing you food to your table at lower costs? Imagine all of those shit jobs... paying minimum wage to Americans, providing safe working conditions... paying medical insurance... workman's compensation... and all of those other operating costs they are not paying for with illegal workers... and passing all of those increased costs to you. A Benefit?
...
And don't you ever wonder why it's always aimed at 'Jose Mexican'... walls.. raids... deportation... And rarely, if ever... at the companies who hire them? The Human Resources Director says, 'But, she had a Social Security Number...how was I to know that Maria Martinez wasn't really Helga Von Kleekenberg?' And we let him off the hook. Isn't that the same as the immigrant saying, 'No habla Engles'?
Hail, Hail!!!
You can't be that dense, can you?
you spend so much time just bitching about immigrants. go back to school and get a real fucking job that can't be taken away by $5/hour mexican labor if you have such a problem with it.
You know nothing about me. I have no worries about losing my job to some third world uneducated manual laborer. However there are Americans that do. People like you sit and complain about how we should help the poor, get them UHC, give them whatever else they need to survive. Then you come on here and support their biggest enemies, people who are taking the lower paying jobs that they need. There are poor citizens in this country who can't afford an education, can't afford food, gas, etc. So we should just sweep them under the rug and let people from another country come here illegally and take money from them because the illegals bunk 20 to a room, and are used to making $5 a day?
I'll bet you wish for another Katrina every day huh? Screw our poor people. We've got millions of Hispanics and asians and whoever that will fill that void.
Another America hater, you don't like our people then get your ass out of here.
Can we PLEASE retire this inflated-patriotism "America hater" rhetoric once and for all??? Just because someone has a different view or opinion about our country or policies, doesn't mean they hate America.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I'm not very sympathetic to the uneducated poor who have no skills that can't be done by an even less educated immigrant who speaks no English. We should do what we can to lessen illegal immigration, but the main part of that is going to be more legal immigrants or work permits etc. so the jobs are still going to go to immigrants (legal or illegal) who will work harder for less money.
And I don't think such people should be just given health care and other handouts. These government handouts should be coupled with required attendance in education or job training programs that the government should be providing so that these people can get some skills to get a job and at least make ends meet rather than just being a burden on society.
If we're going to have to spend a lot of tax money on people who fucked up their lives and can't make it on their own, a good chunk of it should be going towards giving them some skills so they can make it on their own and get off of welfare. Not just throwing money and benefits after them which gives them little or no incentive to better themselves vs. just sitting on their assess and collecting handouts.
America was formed off of people with nothing coming here and making a life for themselves through hard work. As we've moved out of the industrial revolution/era that's meant working hard and getting a good education or learning a marketable trade skill.
That's what being American is. The American dream is through hard work you can achieve success, not that every citizen deserves success regardless of the work they put into getting an education or learning a trade.
2006: Camden I & II, DC
2008: DC, Ed DC II