don't you think it's 'simple economics' that it's better for a business to hire 'illegal aliens' for a cheaper price than they would have to hire 'regular Americans'?
No. Do you hate your fellow Americans? Do you want them to live in poverty? Hiring illegal aliens brings down the market, and lowers standards that the middle class has fought for years to establish.
Should we just get rid of OSHA as well? I mean those safety requirements cost money. Think of all we could save if we didn't have to pay workers compensation either.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Knowing advanced economics can be just as important - meaning, just because they CAN charge more to fill their pockets, doesn't mean it isn't damaging to the entire economy.
Have you read how much they paid in TAXES? Their profit margin is much smaller than other companies that don't gross as much either, they are not the enemy.
No. Do you hate your fellow Americans? Do you want them to live in poverty? Hiring illegal aliens brings down the market, and lowers standards that the middle class has fought for years to establish.
Should we just get rid of OSHA as well? I mean those safety requirements cost money. Think of all we could save if we didn't have to pay workers compensation either.
That's bullshit it's not middle class jobs that are being stolen. It's the middle class americans that are hiring the illegals, why? Not because they hate america but because it saves them money. That's what it all comes down too. You trying to veil your prejudice is like an elephant getting a nose job.
No. Do you hate your fellow Americans? Do you want them to live in poverty? Hiring illegal aliens brings down the market, and lowers standards that the middle class has fought for years to establish.
Should we just get rid of OSHA as well? I mean those safety requirements cost money. Think of all we could save if we didn't have to pay workers compensation either.
I don't value my fellow "Americans" over other humans. Hiring them over the so-called "illegals" means that the other group lives in poverty. How do you choose?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
No - I'm a friend of the poverty stricken people from other countries who are willing to risk everything to move to a foreign land and work hard for low wages. Why are they less valuable as humans than Americans?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
That's bullshit it's not middle class jobs that are being stolen. It's the middle class americans that are hiring the illegals, why? Not because they hate america but because it saves them money. That's what it all comes down too. You trying to veil your prejudice is like an elephant getting a nose job.
I am certainly prejudiced against people who break our laws and steal our jobs. There is no attempt at concealment.
But if you think for one second it isn't middle class jobs that are being taken go to a few construction sites. These are good paying jobs, with benefits, that blue collared AMERICANS are having taken from them by people whose first act upon setting foot in this country was to break a law.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
No - I'm a friend of the poverty stricken people from other countries who are willing to risk everything to move to a foreign land and work hard for low wages. Why are they less valuable as humans than Americans?
They aren't less valuable as humans. We aren't choosing who lives and who dies. Wake up.
Are you not a friend of the guy who struggles to make ends meet to hopefully have the ability to pay for college for his kids so that they might be able to have a better life? Is it ok that he loses his job from outsourcing to another country or has people come in and steal it from him because then the employer doesn't have to pay benefits such as health insurance?
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I don't value my fellow "Americans" over other humans. Hiring them over the so-called "illegals" means that the other group lives in poverty. How do you choose?
I'll pick my fellow countryman. See I like this country, I like what it can do when challenged, I'm not ashamed to be an American.
I am certainly prejudiced against people who break our laws and steal our jobs. There is no attempt at concealment.
But if you think for one second it isn't middle class jobs that are being taken go to a few construction sites. These are good paying jobs, with benefits, that blue collared AMERICANS are having taken from them by people whose first act upon setting foot in this country was to break a law.
do you give those who employ "illegals" a free pass...?
as I see it, if they didn't hire them, they wouldn't come here...
uhhh ... if you're chief complaint is the quality of jobs in america then you need to look no further than the consumer - the consumer chooses to buy products made from cheap labour ... unless you are prepared to buy fair trade or locally made goods - there really isn't much of an argument there ...
They aren't less valuable as humans. We aren't choosing who lives and who dies. Wake up.
Are you not a friend of the guy who struggles to make ends meet to hopefully have the ability to pay for college for his kids so that they might be able to have a better life? Is it ok that he loses his job from outsourcing to another country or has people come in and steal it from him because then the employer doesn't have to pay benefits such as health insurance?
I'd like to be a friend to all of them, but I'm not going to pick and choose who I think deserves a job just on the basis of blind nationality or patriotism.
If one person has the job and they aren't me or family member, then what does it matter to me who has it?
Nobody's stealing jobs. It's the employer who is giving it to them.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I'll pick my fellow countryman. See I like this country, I like what it can do when challenged, I'm not ashamed to be an American.
I'm not ashamed to be an American either (did I say I was??), but humans are humans to me. I'm not going to judge them or treat them differently just because they are an American or not.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Are you not a friend of the guy who struggles to make ends meet to hopefully have the ability to pay for college for his kids so that they might be able to have a better life? Is it ok that he loses his job from outsourcing to another country or has people come in and steal it from him because then the employer doesn't have to pay benefits such as health insurance?
Why is it "his" job? To me a job is just a job that someone has, a job is not some god given right that a person is entitled to have just because they are from a certain place. And why shouldn't the person from another country be given the opportunity to have a job. Is it just because people in other countries work for less that they don't deserve jobs? Well people in the past in North America with decent jobs, often made less in a week then I do in a day.
I am certainly prejudiced against people who break our laws and steal our jobs. There is no attempt at concealment.
But if you think for one second it isn't middle class jobs that are being taken go to a few construction sites. These are good paying jobs, with benefits, that blue collared AMERICANS are having taken from them by people whose first act upon setting foot in this country was to break a law.
Give me examples of middle class jobs that are stolen; our definitions must be different. If that is what you're angry about then you should be upset with the employers not the employees. Who wouldn't try to improve their life buy taking a job that's given to them....
Regarding benefits, im fairly certain that 90% of the jobs that illegals take certainly dont offer them benefits.
I'll pick my fellow countryman. See I like this country, I like what it can do when challenged, I'm not ashamed to be an American.
Tell me something do you just blame the illegals for the lost jobs. What about the companies that knowingly hire them. Or the consumer that purchases products/services from a company when they know that said company hires illegals. Are they not equally responsible for those lost jobs. Lastly are you willing to pay for the costs of these goods and services once the prices skyrocket because they are no longer using illegal workers but US citizens and have to pay for benefits, hire wages, etc...
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
oh no! i prefer Americans get jobs in america! what a prejudiced, racist asshole i must be!!
considering 99% of the people i know are American (including many hispanic friends and a few lovely hispanic ladies), you'll just have to get over the fact that their well being is slightly more important than someone in a foreign country.
all things being equal, if it comes down to helping someone i know vs someone i dont, i'll choose helping the person i know. i dont feel remotely bad about this.
Tell me something do you just blame the illegals for the lost jobs. What about the companies that knowingly hire them. Or the consumer that purchases products/services from a company when they know that said company hires illegals. Are they not equally responsible for those lost jobs. Lastly are you willing to pay for the costs of these goods and services once the prices skyrocket because they are no longer using illegal workers but US citizens and have to pay for benefits, hire wages, etc...
Great point.
Unsung - Do you ONLY buy stuff that's actually made by Americans? (And just because the tag says made in American doesn't mean it's not being made in a sweatshop in some other coutry.) If not, I blame YOU for all the jobs that are supposedly lost. You must hate Americans.
and its funny to me that people dont mind illegals working, so long as its the shitty lower class jobs (screw the poor lower class american workers, who care about them?). you're argument that they are not taking middle class jobs is a joke. if its not true now, it will be one day. you think they are always gonna be happy mowing your fucking lawn while you sit on your ass all day? do you think they are gonna go back to mexico? fuck no. like any other human being, they will want more, and then they will compete for YOUR JOBS. fact is, more workers dilute the job pool and lower wages.
people seem fine with having a massive second class citizenry that do the slave labor for us. HOW IS THIS REMOTELY ETHICAL TO YOU???! when has this ever worked out?
and its funny to me that people dont mind illegals working, so long as its the shitty lower class jobs (screw the poor lower class american workers, who care about them?). you're argument that they are not taking middle class jobs is a joke. if its not true now, it will be one day. you think they are always gonna be happy mowing your fucking lawn while you sit on your ass all day? do you think they are gonna go back to mexico? fuck no. like any other human being, they will want more, and then they will compete for YOUR JOBS. fact is, more workers dilute the job pool and lower wages.
What does it matter as long as someone as doing the job? Why does it have to be an American?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
What does it matter as long as someone as doing the job? Why does it have to be an American?
uh because it makes the country stronger. it gives middle and lower class americans more power. because, chances are it will ultimately help someone i know live a better life. because the rich elite has less ability to exploit workers and lower wages. why is this so difficult to understand?
and its funny to me that people dont mind illegals working, so long as its the shitty lower class jobs (screw the poor lower class american workers, who care about them?). you're argument that they are not taking middle class jobs is a joke. if its not true now, it will be one day. you think they are always gonna be happy mowing your fucking lawn while you sit on your ass all day? do you think they are gonna go back to mexico? fuck no. like any other human being, they will want more, and then they will compete for YOUR JOBS. fact is, more workers dilute the job pool and lower wages.
people seem fine with having a massive second class citizenry that do the slave labor for us. HOW IS THIS REMOTELY ETHICAL TO YOU???! when has this ever worked out?
How can they get a middle class job by mowing lawns all day? Their kids who are born here might, but they'll be citizens so you should be ok with that.....your complaint should be with the employer not the person who is trying to better him/herself.
To compare it to slavery is idiotic; they assume the risk to come here for those jobs. Getting out of those jobs is the easy part; their are plenty of assholes out there who would gladly turn them in.
uh because it makes the country stronger. it gives middle and lower class americans more power. because, chances are it will ultimately help someone i know live a better life. because the rich elite has less ability to exploit workers and lower wages. why is this so difficult to understand?
i support your philosophy 100% but if you shop at wal-mart - it's a huge knock against your position ...
i support your philosophy 100% but if you shop at wal-mart - it's a huge knock against your position ...
yeah i hear ya, there arent many non walmarts around here though. nearest one is a few miles from here. hopefully i'll be getting a new raise soon, and then its nothing but Whole Foods Market for me! thats some good eatin' there.
uh because it makes the country stronger. it gives middle and lower class americans more power. because, chances are it will ultimately help someone i know live a better life. because the rich elite has less ability to exploit workers and lower wages. why is this so difficult to understand?
Well, it makes no difference to me who has the job and what their background is.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
yeah i hear ya, there arent many non walmarts around here though. nearest one is a few miles from here. hopefully i'll be getting a new raise soon, and then its nothing but Whole Foods Market for me! thats some good eatin' there.
good luck!
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
oh no! i prefer Americans get jobs in america! what a prejudiced, racist asshole i must be!!
considering 99% of the people i know are American (including many hispanic friends and a few lovely hispanic ladies), you'll just have to get over the fact that their well being is slightly more important than someone in a foreign country.
all things being equal, if it comes down to helping someone i know vs someone i dont, i'll choose helping the person i know. i dont feel remotely bad about this.
Somebody else has a clue. Thank you!
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
Unsung - Do you ONLY buy stuff that's actually made by Americans? (And just because the tag says made in American doesn't mean it's not being made in a sweatshop in some other coutry.) If not, I blame YOU for all the jobs that are supposedly lost. You must hate Americans.
I go out of my way to, yes. I also knowingly pay extra. For example I'm building a Jeep and I needed quite a few of Grade 8 bolts. So I went to Fastenal and told them exactly what I needed, he goes away for about fifteen minutes. When he came back he had about 20 different sizes of bolts, in counts of 10-25 each. Out of the 20 some sizes that I needed only four were Made in USA. I told him to put the rest back. He looked at me like I was crazy. I told him if he could give me the sizes in USA made bolts I would buy those instead. Then came the standard well I've got to order them and they will be more response. I told him to go ahead. It took another day and for about 250 bolts it came out to an extra $10 for USA made. Otherwise I would have had bolts made in Taiwan and China, no thanks.
Now I'm not an idiot, I have a TV that is not USA made, but I buy USA made whenever I can as there aren't many TV's made in the US. If any. I also quit using Colgate toothpaste because it is made in Mexico. I now use Rembrandt. I needed a pair of Carhartt jeans so I went to buy a pair, they were also Made in Mexico. I made a couple of phone calls and found that small denim shops still have Made in the USA Carhartts, big box stores have their Carhartt lines Made in Mexico.
And yes the employers should be punished. First with a warning, second with a fine, third with jail time.
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unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing deception and unfairness in the marketplace. The FTC Act gives the Commission the power to bring law enforcement actions against false or misleading claims that a product is of U.S. origin. Traditionally, the Commission has required that a product advertised as Made in USA be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. After a comprehensive review of Made in USA and other U.S. origin claims in product advertising and labeling, the Commission announced in December 1997 that it would retain the "all or virtually all" standard. The Commission also issued an Enforcement Policy Statement on U.S. Origin Claims to provide guidance to marketers who want to make an unqualified Made in USA claim under the "all or virtually all" standard and those who want to make a qualified Made in USA claim.
0
unsung
I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
I go out of my way to, yes. I also knowingly pay extra. For example I'm building a Jeep and I needed quite a few of Grade 8 bolts. So I went to Fastenal and told them exactly what I needed, he goes away for about fifteen minutes. When he came back he had about 20 different sizes of bolts, in counts of 10-25 each. Out of the 20 some sizes that I needed only four were Made in USA. I told him to put the rest back. He looked at me like I was crazy. I told him if he could give me the sizes in USA made bolts I would buy those instead. Then came the standard well I've got to order them and they will be more response. I told him to go ahead. It took another day and for about 250 bolts it came out to an extra $10 for USA made. Otherwise I would have had bolts made in Taiwan and China, no thanks.
Now I'm not an idiot, I have a TV that is not USA made, but I buy USA made whenever I can as there aren't many TV's made in the US. If any. I also quit using Colgate toothpaste because it is made in Mexico. I now use Rembrandt. I needed a pair of Carhartt jeans so I went to buy a pair, they were also Made in Mexico. I made a couple of phone calls and found that small denim shops still have Made in the USA Carhartts, big box stores have their Carhartt lines Made in Mexico.
And yes the employers should be punished. First with a warning, second with a fine, third with jail time.
The product may be made in America but that doesn't mean that they didn't use illegals to make it. Illegals come over here because they know they can find work. If you started punishing companies who hired illegals then their would be no opportunities for them over here.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Comments
No. Do you hate your fellow Americans? Do you want them to live in poverty? Hiring illegal aliens brings down the market, and lowers standards that the middle class has fought for years to establish.
Should we just get rid of OSHA as well? I mean those safety requirements cost money. Think of all we could save if we didn't have to pay workers compensation either.
Have you read how much they paid in TAXES? Their profit margin is much smaller than other companies that don't gross as much either, they are not the enemy.
That's bullshit it's not middle class jobs that are being stolen. It's the middle class americans that are hiring the illegals, why? Not because they hate america but because it saves them money. That's what it all comes down too. You trying to veil your prejudice is like an elephant getting a nose job.
I don't value my fellow "Americans" over other humans. Hiring them over the so-called "illegals" means that the other group lives in poverty. How do you choose?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
No - I'm a friend of the poverty stricken people from other countries who are willing to risk everything to move to a foreign land and work hard for low wages. Why are they less valuable as humans than Americans?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I am certainly prejudiced against people who break our laws and steal our jobs. There is no attempt at concealment.
But if you think for one second it isn't middle class jobs that are being taken go to a few construction sites. These are good paying jobs, with benefits, that blue collared AMERICANS are having taken from them by people whose first act upon setting foot in this country was to break a law.
They aren't less valuable as humans. We aren't choosing who lives and who dies. Wake up.
Are you not a friend of the guy who struggles to make ends meet to hopefully have the ability to pay for college for his kids so that they might be able to have a better life? Is it ok that he loses his job from outsourcing to another country or has people come in and steal it from him because then the employer doesn't have to pay benefits such as health insurance?
I'll pick my fellow countryman. See I like this country, I like what it can do when challenged, I'm not ashamed to be an American.
do you give those who employ "illegals" a free pass...?
as I see it, if they didn't hire them, they wouldn't come here...
I'd like to be a friend to all of them, but I'm not going to pick and choose who I think deserves a job just on the basis of blind nationality or patriotism.
If one person has the job and they aren't me or family member, then what does it matter to me who has it?
Nobody's stealing jobs. It's the employer who is giving it to them.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I'm not ashamed to be an American either (did I say I was??), but humans are humans to me. I'm not going to judge them or treat them differently just because they are an American or not.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Why is it "his" job? To me a job is just a job that someone has, a job is not some god given right that a person is entitled to have just because they are from a certain place. And why shouldn't the person from another country be given the opportunity to have a job. Is it just because people in other countries work for less that they don't deserve jobs? Well people in the past in North America with decent jobs, often made less in a week then I do in a day.
Give me examples of middle class jobs that are stolen; our definitions must be different. If that is what you're angry about then you should be upset with the employers not the employees. Who wouldn't try to improve their life buy taking a job that's given to them....
Regarding benefits, im fairly certain that 90% of the jobs that illegals take certainly dont offer them benefits.
Tell me something do you just blame the illegals for the lost jobs. What about the companies that knowingly hire them. Or the consumer that purchases products/services from a company when they know that said company hires illegals. Are they not equally responsible for those lost jobs. Lastly are you willing to pay for the costs of these goods and services once the prices skyrocket because they are no longer using illegal workers but US citizens and have to pay for benefits, hire wages, etc...
considering 99% of the people i know are American (including many hispanic friends and a few lovely hispanic ladies), you'll just have to get over the fact that their well being is slightly more important than someone in a foreign country.
all things being equal, if it comes down to helping someone i know vs someone i dont, i'll choose helping the person i know. i dont feel remotely bad about this.
Great point.
Unsung - Do you ONLY buy stuff that's actually made by Americans? (And just because the tag says made in American doesn't mean it's not being made in a sweatshop in some other coutry.) If not, I blame YOU for all the jobs that are supposedly lost. You must hate Americans.
people seem fine with having a massive second class citizenry that do the slave labor for us. HOW IS THIS REMOTELY ETHICAL TO YOU???! when has this ever worked out?
What does it matter as long as someone as doing the job? Why does it have to be an American?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
How can they get a middle class job by mowing lawns all day? Their kids who are born here might, but they'll be citizens so you should be ok with that.....your complaint should be with the employer not the person who is trying to better him/herself.
To compare it to slavery is idiotic; they assume the risk to come here for those jobs. Getting out of those jobs is the easy part; their are plenty of assholes out there who would gladly turn them in.
i support your philosophy 100% but if you shop at wal-mart - it's a huge knock against your position ...
yeah i hear ya, there arent many non walmarts around here though. nearest one is a few miles from here. hopefully i'll be getting a new raise soon, and then its nothing but Whole Foods Market for me! thats some good eatin' there.
Well, it makes no difference to me who has the job and what their background is.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
good luck!
Somebody else has a clue. Thank you!
I go out of my way to, yes. I also knowingly pay extra. For example I'm building a Jeep and I needed quite a few of Grade 8 bolts. So I went to Fastenal and told them exactly what I needed, he goes away for about fifteen minutes. When he came back he had about 20 different sizes of bolts, in counts of 10-25 each. Out of the 20 some sizes that I needed only four were Made in USA. I told him to put the rest back. He looked at me like I was crazy. I told him if he could give me the sizes in USA made bolts I would buy those instead. Then came the standard well I've got to order them and they will be more response. I told him to go ahead. It took another day and for about 250 bolts it came out to an extra $10 for USA made. Otherwise I would have had bolts made in Taiwan and China, no thanks.
Now I'm not an idiot, I have a TV that is not USA made, but I buy USA made whenever I can as there aren't many TV's made in the US. If any. I also quit using Colgate toothpaste because it is made in Mexico. I now use Rembrandt. I needed a pair of Carhartt jeans so I went to buy a pair, they were also Made in Mexico. I made a couple of phone calls and found that small denim shops still have Made in the USA Carhartts, big box stores have their Carhartt lines Made in Mexico.
And yes the employers should be punished. First with a warning, second with a fine, third with jail time.
I missed replying to this. This is a false statement.
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/madeusa.shtm
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) is charged with preventing deception and unfairness in the marketplace. The FTC Act gives the Commission the power to bring law enforcement actions against false or misleading claims that a product is of U.S. origin. Traditionally, the Commission has required that a product advertised as Made in USA be "all or virtually all" made in the U.S. After a comprehensive review of Made in USA and other U.S. origin claims in product advertising and labeling, the Commission announced in December 1997 that it would retain the "all or virtually all" standard. The Commission also issued an Enforcement Policy Statement on U.S. Origin Claims to provide guidance to marketers who want to make an unqualified Made in USA claim under the "all or virtually all" standard and those who want to make a qualified Made in USA claim.
Haven't been to one in about fifteen years. I have all of my teeth though so I don't think I can get through the doors.
The product may be made in America but that doesn't mean that they didn't use illegals to make it. Illegals come over here because they know they can find work. If you started punishing companies who hired illegals then their would be no opportunities for them over here.