Arab Hatred of Israel

24

Comments

  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    reborncareerist wrote:
    I still think Israel's biggest mistake was bombing Lebanese cities. They could have stuck with a ground offensive into the South, and they could have concentrated their airpower on Hizbollah itself. Instead, they have killed hundreds of Lebanese who have nothing to do with the problem of Hizbollah.
    Its not morally defensible, and its not even militarily defensible. What Isreal is doing now should have happened from the get-go, and Beirut should have been left alone.

    I agree...then I would buy into the Israeli "warnings" better than after air raids of the cities....if they went in on foot they would have forced Hezbollah to meet them head on...cause the civilians would not fight...they could have had an easier, albeit still difficult, time in killing the real enemy....
  • jsand
    jsand Posts: 646
    reborncareerist wrote:
    IIts not morally defensible, and its not even militarily defensible. What Isreal is doing now should have happened from the get-go, and Beirut should have been left alone.

    Even if you don't think it is morally defensible, which I do, it is certainly militarily defensible. Ground warfare against guerilla fighters who know the terrain and have been building trenches and tunnels for years in preparation for this fight would translate to a lot of IDF casualties. Why should Israel lose its sons and daughters to protect civilians that it has repeatedly warned to leave?
  • thankyougrandma
    thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    jsand wrote:
    Israel has developed so many technological advancements, let alone the land they inhabited only 58 years ago...would you like me to list all the Israeli accomplishments.

    By the way, I think the number of Lebanese citizens in Israeli jails is approximately 3.

    :) yeah it's around that number... even 3 would mean 3 that shouldn't be there...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    jsand wrote:
    Even if you don't think it is morally defensible, which I do, it is certainly militarily defensible. Ground warfare against guerilla fighters who know the terrain and have been building trenches and tunnels for years in preparation for this fight would translate to a lot of IDF casualties. Why should Israel lose its sons and daughters to protect civilians that it has repeatedly warned to leave?

    OK, but killing Lebanese non-combatants is not going to make Israel more safe. If anything, it will do the opposite.
  • jsand
    jsand Posts: 646
    thankyougrandma wrote:
    :) yeah it's around that number... even 3 would mean 3 that shouldn't be there...

    Assuming those three were engaged in acts of terror against Israeli citizens, they shouldn't be there? Give me a fucking break.
  • thankyougrandma
    thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    jsand wrote:
    Even if you don't think it is morally defensible, which I do, it is certainly militarily defensible. Ground warfare against guerilla fighters who know the terrain and have been building trenches and tunnels for years in preparation for this fight would translate to a lot of IDF casualties. Why should Israel lose its sons and daughters to protect civilians that it has repeatedly warned to leave?

    military have NEVER defeated terrorism or these kind of groups. Russians, France, USA, Israel have all tried and failed...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • jsand
    jsand Posts: 646
    reborncareerist wrote:
    OK, but killing Lebanese non-combatants is not going to make Israel more safe. If anything, it will do the opposite.

    Israel is still fighting this war with its hands tied behind its back. Remember, it's a war...non-combatants unfortunately get killed. Has there ever been a war where not a single civilian dies?

    We're talking about a conventional army fighting an enemy that intentionally blends in with civilians. It is impossible for them to fight Hezbollah without killing any. Sad but true.
  • thankyougrandma
    thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    jsand wrote:
    Assuming those three were engaged in acts of terror against Israeli citizens, they shouldn't be there? Give me a fucking break.

    hehe well it was not imply that citizens = criminals, stop spinning your own story will you, it will be easier to discuss...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    jsand wrote:
    Israel is still fighting this war with its hands tied behind its back. Remember, it's a war...non-combatants unfortunately get killed. Has there ever been a war where not a single civilian dies?

    We're talking about a conventional army fighting an enemy that intentionally blends in with civilians. It is impossible for them to fight Hezbollah without killing any. Sad but true.

    I can agree with this to a point ... The thing is, there's a difference between civilians getting caught in the crossfire in some of these southern villages (especially when you've got Hizbollah using them as a shield), and bombing the absolute piss out of densely populated areas. Seriously, man. You kill people that don't care about Hizbollah, and then you've made their relatives into extremists. I know Israel has an uphill battle here, because they aren't fighting a conventional enemy. But at one point do you decide to throw morality out the window? The point at which you start to look like your enemy!
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    jsand wrote:
    Even if you don't think it is morally defensible, which I do, it is certainly militarily defensible. Ground warfare against guerilla fighters who know the terrain and have been building trenches and tunnels for years in preparation for this fight would translate to a lot of IDF casualties. Why should Israel lose its sons and daughters to protect civilians that it has repeatedly warned to leave?

    so IDF fighters' lives are worth more than innocent civilians? And warned to leave? where should they go? a lot of these people that stayed had no money, no way to get out, and no where to even go if they could leave. It's not that easy.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    reborncareerist wrote:
    I can agree with this to a point ... The thing is, there's a difference between civilians getting caught in the crossfire in some of these southern villages (especially when you've got Hizbollah using them as a shield), and bombing the absolute piss out of densely populated areas. Seriously, man. You kill people that don't care about Hizbollah, and then you've made their relatives into extremists. I know Israel has an uphill battle here, because they aren't fighting a conventional enemy. But at one point do you decide to throw morality out the window? The point at which you start to look like your enemy!

    Dead on and reborn I believe this post really bridges a gap that the majority here are trying to say and the minority are not seeing....and currently they have "shat" on morality....and unfortunatly they may see future reprecussions that will spin the same ol' circle around again....
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    NCfan wrote:
    Agreed with all that. And I'd just like to add that Isreal is to blame for this change of attitude. I don't understand how people at the highest levels of government can't grasp that you cannot destroy Hezbollah militarily.

    Israel made their point, and I think most of the world actually supported them initially. But the point has been made, and i doubt they can make it any clearer. It is obvious that they are not going to give Hezbollah a knock out blow, so just stop already.

    Go home with resentment focused on Hezbollah not yourself, ya know? It's just a real shit storm over there.

    well stated...
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    reborncareerist wrote:
    I can agree with this to a point ... The thing is, there's a difference between civilians getting caught in the crossfire in some of these southern villages (especially when you've got Hizbollah using them as a shield), and bombing the absolute piss out of densely populated areas. Seriously, man. You kill people that don't care about Hizbollah, and then you've made their relatives into extremists. I know Israel has an uphill battle here, because they aren't fighting a conventional enemy. But at one point do you decide to throw morality out the window? The point at which you start to look like your enemy!


    great post...I really think you've hit the nail on the head, so to speak...
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    This thread is racist :p

    Arabs hate Israel? That sounds racist to me.

    I guess maybe you shouldn't give them a reason to hate Israel.

    Actually I haven't talked to an arab that hates Israel, I think this is stretching the truth to warrant genocide.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • jsand
    jsand Posts: 646
    reborncareerist wrote:
    I can agree with this to a point ... The thing is, there's a difference between civilians getting caught in the crossfire in some of these southern villages (especially when you've got Hizbollah using them as a shield), and bombing the absolute piss out of densely populated areas. Seriously, man. You kill people that don't care about Hizbollah, and then you've made their relatives into extremists. I know Israel has an uphill battle here, because they aren't fighting a conventional enemy. But at one point do you decide to throw morality out the window? The point at which you start to look like your enemy!

    Morality hasn't been "thrown out the window." If it were, Israel would behave like its enemies and intentionally target civilians. If Israel wanted to, it could leven all of Lebanon. But it hasn't. I'd like to think that reasonable people are able to differentiate between terrorists and a sovereign state trying to defend its own citizens. Israel regrets the loss of innocent life on the other side - does Hezbollah (or Lebanon)?
  • NCfan
    NCfan Posts: 945
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    I agree...then I would buy into the Israeli "warnings" better than after air raids of the cities....if they went in on foot they would have forced Hezbollah to meet them head on...cause the civilians would not fight...they could have had an easier, albeit still difficult, time in killing the real enemy....

    They didn't do that because of all the landmines, booby traps, etc.... they would have had massive casualties with a head on assault on the ground.

    They still didn't go about it the right way though.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    NCfan wrote:
    They didn't do that because of all the landmines, booby traps, etc.... they would have had massive casualties with a head on assault on the ground.

    They still didn't go about it the right way though.

    Well they are increasing the ground troops lately and I have not heard of one mine death....
  • jsand
    jsand Posts: 646
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    Well they are increasing the ground troops lately and I have not heard of one mine death....

    That's because they softened the areas where the ground troops are going through air strikes.
  • RockinInCanada
    RockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    jsand wrote:
    Morality hasn't been "thrown out the window." If it were, Israel would behave like its enemies and intentionally target civilians. If Israel wanted to, it could leven all of Lebanon. But it hasn't. I'd like to think that reasonable people are able to differentiate between terrorists and a sovereign state trying to defend its own citizens. Israel regrets the loss of innocent life on the other side - does Hezbollah (or Lebanon)?

    Its been thrown in garbage more like it.....I would like to think reasonable people could differentiate on what type of force is acceptable and what is overkill...on top of that it wouldn't hurt to have some people realize that these over-kill attacks are aiding in the creation of more terrorism than what they are destroying...but then again intelligence isn't for everyone....
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    Well they are increasing the ground troops lately and I have not heard of one mine death....

    Apparently the Israeli engineers have done a bang-up job of clearing boodytraps and mines.

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