I guess the oil companies should just close up shop in 08 then right? if a democrat wins they are doomed.
I thought we were talking about gas prices plumetting before the the '06 congressional elections. You are talking about presidential '08?
Either way....nothing will change that drastically if dems win. But there will be a stronger push for alternative resources (which is actually the best way to fight terrorism).
really? oil companies sell gasoline based on the price of oil. they buy oil and refine it. if the price of oil is $20 then gas prices would be $1.00 a gallon. guess what the price of oil isnt $20. its $60. why is it that price? because of republicans right?
your comment is so ridiculous. I guess the oil companies should just close up shop in 08 then right? if a democrat wins they are doomed.
and the price of oil can be manipulated via supply, correct...? and correct me if I'm wrong, China and India (recent excuses) are still thirsty for oil, right...?
Iran is still "saber-rattleing" (yet another excuse), right..?
Nigeria is still unstable (yup, another excuse), right...?
listen, all I'm saying is that I'm skeptical...and Milestone raises good points, which I'm sure will fall on deaf ears (or blind eyes)...
I thought we were talking about gas prices plumetting before the the '06 congressional elections. You are talking about presidential '08?
Either way....nothing will change that drastically if dems win. But there will be a stronger push for alternative resources (which is actually the best way to fight terrorism).
06 or 08 doesnt matter. government has nothing to do with the price of oil. everybody understand now? good.
and i'm with you, lets find an alternative method. fine with me.
the point of this thread was completely shot down last week when OPEC cut production. let me remind you.....
the original poster suggested that gas prices coming down were connected to our corrupt government trying to win the election in November. several people agreed.
OPEC cut production, casuing the price of oil to go up (hence gas goes up). is that good or bad for republicans right now? I guess they are even bad at being corrupt.
sorry to hear you're not working, I hope it was by choice...good luck...
Unfortunately, it was not by choice. Was a production manager for a locally owned company here in town and after 13 years.. POOF!!! Company closed!!Owner drug the company into the ground! With all my experience, still can't get a job. SUCKS!! But what ya gonna do right?
yes, the supply is controlled from OPEC. they supply 40% of oil to the world. last week they decided to cut production to raise the price. wouldnt that hurt the republicans during this election time? if you want to believe corruption is everywhere fine. that has nothing to do with the government being able to control the price of oil. they dont.
what im saying isn't necessarily tied to republicans and winning. it's a dynamic process. why is everyone so cut and dry lately? extreme one way or the other,... i think there are a few people in position that are taking advantage of the situation and price galging (sp) the shit out of people, only b/c we are dependent on it. im sure bush sees profit from big oil. i hope you wouldn't doubt that. no, i don't think bush is directly in control of the price of oil. i think he has ties with big oil; wherein, he sees profit and has made big decisions with oil in mind. im sure big oil is somewhat dependent on bush.
i could be wrong though. im not an economist.
you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
~Ron Burgundy
speculative traders dont work for the government. the carry all the risk themselves of the trades they make. thankfully the government makes laws prohibitting these traders from cornering markets and abusing the system such as the enron boys.
Enron and other large traders asked the government to slip a loophole into the law in 2000 allowing them to manipulate the energy markets, including oil. The government did.
yeah, yeah...I'm bashing bush again...blinded by hate, yet again...
forgive me for being skeptical of the powers that be, be it bush, congress (both parties), and OPEC...
unlike you, I don't follow blindly, I like to question..
our current gov't has done nothing to show they are trustworthy...with wmd's and lack there of, warrentless wiretaps, hiding facts about a child predator, cheney meeting with energy execs behind closed doors, abramoff, and I'm sure there are a couple more...again, sorry for being skeptical...
For all those reasons and others you shouldn't apologize for being skeptical. You are right not to follow blindly. You are right to question. They've tried it before, let me remind you...
Saudis pledged oil price cut before US vote-report
Reuters, 04.18.04, 4:33 PM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, promised President Bush the Saudis would cut oil prices before November to ensure the U.S. economy is strong on election day, journalist Bob Woodward said in a television interview Sunday.
wow thats a bold statment. price will be 2 dollars by November. guess what genius oil prices go down in the winter. this subject makes me more angry becuase you people have no idea what you are talking about.
NEWS FLASH
the government has no control over the price of oil. its a freely traded commodity. and supply is mostly controlled by OPEC. USA is not part of OPEC. some might not have known that either.
take a look at the price of oil over time. it goes down in NOVEMBER. yes, even in a non-election year. shocking isnt it?
stop blaming every goddamn thing on the government
Just a side-remark here. You say that oil is a freely traded commodity and governments have no influence on it. Well maybe. Governments of oil-producing countries certainly have influence on it. But enough of that.
A freely traded commodity can certainly be manipulated by the people buying it, and particularly the high rollers who buy and/or sell alot of it. they will have an effect on markets, and can manipulate prices if they go about it nimbly enough. Also, not that I have specific knowledge about market analysis and price speculation, but in economic issues in general, it seems people follow the stream, and often base their analysis on similar sources, if not the same. So by controlling a pivotal business or source in the economy, one can be in a position to control prices. My main point is that markets lend themselves nicely to manipulation by big and/or influential actors. May not be the US government, but manipulation, gouging and artificial inflation or deflation of prices is certainly possible. In the language of today free market merely means "in the control of the big money guys" for the most part.
That being said, annual price fluctuation does happen, as the graphs also show, and I am not doubting your knowledge on this. Just saying generally.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Just a side-remark here. You say that oil is a freely traded commodity and governments have no influence on it. Well maybe. Governments of oil-producing countries certainly have influence on it. But enough of that.
A freely traded commodity can certainly be manipulated by the people buying it, and particularly the high rollers who buy and/or sell alot of it. they will have an effect on markets, and can manipulate prices if they go about it nimbly enough. Also, not that I have specific knowledge about market analysis and price speculation, but in economic issues in general, it seems people follow the stream, and often base their analysis on similar sources, if not the same. So by controlling a pivotal business or source in the economy, one can be in a position to control prices. My main point is that markets lend themselves nicely to manipulation by big and/or influential actors. May not be the US government, but manipulation, gouging and artificial inflation or deflation of prices is certainly possible. In the language of today free market merely means "in the control of the big money guys" for the most part.
That being said, annual price fluctuation does happen, as the graphs also show, and I am not doubting your knowledge on this. Just saying generally.
Peace
Dan
your right. buyers and sellers control the price of oil. they "maniuplate" the price. they also take on the risk of those trades.
also needs to be mentioned, 40% of the supply is controlled by OPEC. so oil isnt exactly a "freely" traded commodity. price is set on the open market, supply is not. those fucks can do whatever they feel is right. such as cutting supply to keep the price above 60 dollars a barrel.
my whole point from the beginning is government does not have anything to do with the recent price drop. or rise for that matter. everyone here believes bush is "in" with the oil compnaies. guess what, so are 99.9% of americans. we need oil.
lets find an alternative. and let OPEC takes baths in all their un needed oil.
your right. buyers and sellers control the price of oil. they "maniuplate" the price. they also take on the risk of those trades.
And big oil has a history of illegally cornering energy markets. http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2006/June/06_crm_401.html
"WASHINGTON – Dennis N. Abbott, a former trader at a U.S. subsidiary of British Petroleum, has pleaded guilty to conspiring to manipulate and corner the propane market in the winter of 2004, Assistant Attorney General Alice S. Fisher of the Criminal Division announced today."
also needs to be mentioned, 40% of the supply is controlled by OPEC. so oil isnt exactly a "freely" traded commodity. price is set on the open market, supply is not. those fucks can do whatever they feel is right. such as cutting supply to keep the price above 60 dollars a barrel.
my whole point from the beginning is government does not have anything to do with the recent price drop. or rise for that matter. everyone here believes bush is "in" with the oil compnaies. guess what, so are 99.9% of americans. we need oil.
Of course bush and his administration is "in" with the oil companies. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1138009.stm
"What makes the new Bush administration different from previous wealthy cabinets is that so many of the officials have links to the same industry - oil."
They are also in business with the Bin Laden family and have close business and personal ties to Saudi Royalty. http://www.slate.com/id/2117535/
Gas prices rise dramatically after Memorial Day, and then fall after Labor Day. It happens every single year, and every single year the media makes a big deal out of both events, like they're the first time this has ever happened, and people seem surprised about it every year. Pay attention next year and see what happens.
Chicago 2000 : Chicago 2003 : Chicago 2006 : Summerfest 2006 : Lollapalooza 2007 : Chicago 2009 : Noblesville (Indy) 2010 : PJ20 (East Troy) 2011 : Wrigley Field 2013 : Milwaukee (Yield) 2014 : Wrigley Field 2016
And big oil has a history of illegally cornering energy markets. http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2006/June/06_crm_401.html
"WASHINGTON – Dennis N. Abbott, a former trader at a U.S. subsidiary of British Petroleum, has pleaded guilty to conspiring to manipulate and corner the propane market in the winter of 2004, Assistant Attorney General Alice S. Fisher of the Criminal Division announced today."
trying to corner markets has been happening in all commidites since the beginning. it doesnt just apply to oil or energy commidites. but you are correct.
Of course bush and his administration is "in" with the oil companies. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1138009.stm
"What makes the new Bush administration different from previous wealthy cabinets is that so many of the officials have links to the same industry - oil."
They are also in business with the Bin Laden family and have close business and personal ties to Saudi Royalty. http://www.slate.com/id/2117535/
he may have an in with the oil companies but so does america. we need oil. its a sad fact. if you invest in oil companies, chances are you will make money.
if democrats win in 08, they seem to embrace technology much better then republicans. not sure if a political party can bring an alternative fuel faster though. imagine how much money will be made when it becomes available. if and when its ready to be mass produced, it will. regardless who is in office.
lets find an alternative. and let OPEC takes baths in all their un needed oil.
I agree, and I'm from OPEC-oil-benefitting Norway. However, unless the alternative is dirt-cheap, won't this whole thing just happen again with another commodity?
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
That's nothing! In Australia we have a fuel alternate -LPG which is the gas by product from distilling petrol. When petrol prices here finally dropped by 9cents a litre, there wasn't a corresponding drop in LPG. True we only pay 54.9 cents a litre when it's at the bottom of the price cycle (price can vary by as much as 10 cents a litre in one week) but this is a waste product that just used to be vented into the air so being able to use it is really good for the planet. Ten years ago when I started driving, the price was around 12cents a litre and the most expensive high was 20cents. The price rises and falls have nothing to do with petrol prices, they are just revenue raising
2003 Bris 8 &9, Syd 11 &13, Melb 18, 19 &20
2006 Vegas, San Diego, LA 9 & 10, San Francisco 15 &16, The Gorge 22 & 23, Syd 7 &8, Melb 13, 14 &16 Melb 20 2009, Buffalo Oct 12; Brooklyn Oct 18 & 19; Hartford Oct 25 2013
I agree, and I'm from OPEC-oil-benefitting Norway. However, unless the alternative is dirt-cheap, won't this whole thing just happen again with another commodity?
Peace
Dan
well thats the point. it all matters on what that alternative is. the goal, I would think of an alternative, is to use "it" less and have "it" last longer. either way, there will be a demand and supply for that product. price, like always, will be based on that.
OPEC cut production today by 1 million barrels and prices changed little. The PRICE of oil changes on the open market. not in the white house. or at the house of saud.
That's nothing! In Australia we have a fuel alternate -LPG which is the gas by product from distilling petrol. When petrol prices here finally dropped by 9cents a litre, there wasn't a corresponding drop in LPG. True we only pay 54.9 cents a litre when it's at the bottom of the price cycle (price can vary by as much as 10 cents a litre in one week) but this is a waste product that just used to be vented into the air so being able to use it is really good for the planet. Ten years ago when I started driving, the price was around 12cents a litre and the most expensive high was 20cents. The price rises and falls have nothing to do with petrol prices, they are just revenue raising
he may have an in with the oil companies but so does america. we need oil. its a sad fact. if you invest in oil companies, chances are you will make money.
Thanks for the financial advice. But most americans don't invest in oil companies. America's need for oil is influenced by the national energy policy. In the development of this policy, Bush takes advice from secret sources behind closed doors. Those secret sources include big oil; who lie to america about it during testimony before congress.
"A White House document shows that executives from big oil companies met with Vice President Cheney's energy task force in 2001 -- something long suspected by environmentalists but denied as recently as last week by industry officials testifying before Congress."
In addition to influence over demand, Bush has influence over supply. His ties to big oil and Saudi royalty have been mentioned. And other presidents with looser ties to the Saudis have asked them to sway the price of oil, including democrats Clinton and Carter. And again, Bush has been caught trying the very scheme you claim can't happen.
if democrats win in 08, they seem to embrace technology much better then republicans. not sure if a political party can bring an alternative fuel faster though. imagine how much money will be made when it becomes available. if and when its ready to be mass produced, it will. regardless who is in office.
Earlier you suggested seeking out alternative fuel. Now you suggest a strategy of waiting until its "ready".
Money may or may not be the drive. There is a tremendous investment by big oil in their infastructure. The longer we wait for new fuels the greater the return on this investment. Renewable fuels may be less lucrative than oil. There is less potential for a small number of entities to control the resource if it is renewable.
OPEC cut production today by 1 million barrels and prices changed little. The PRICE of oil changes on the open market. not in the white house. or at the house of saud.
I don't know if recent oil and gas prices are politically related. I doubt you do either. But Bush has tried it before. And the US-Saudi relationship has a large impact on the global oil market. Ever since Franklen Roosevelt met with King Abdul Aziz ibn Saud in 1945 to agree to defend the House of Saud in exchange for privaleged access to oil.
Thanks for the financial advice. But most americans don't invest in oil companies. America's need for oil is influenced by the national energy policy. In the development of this policy, Bush takes advice from secret sources behind closed doors. Those secret sources include big oil; who lie to america about it during testimony before congress.
America's need for oil is not influenced by the national energy policy. its influenced by a need to fill your gas tank when its empty. or to heat your house in the winter.
In addition to influence over demand, Bush has influence over supply. His ties to big oil and Saudi royalty have been mentioned. And other presidents with looser ties to the Saudis have asked them to sway the price of oil, including democrats Clinton and Carter. And again, Bush has been caught trying the very scheme you claim can't happen.
again, this thread is about the correlation between the price of gas dropping and republicans staying in office. you claim to think Bush has influence of demand and supply. he doesnt. the price of oil is set on the open market. bush's influence (or any president) barely moves the price enough for anyone to notice. his influence comes if we start bombing Iran. if Iran takes there oil off the market due to bush's actions, the price will sky rocket.
Earlier you suggested seeking out alternative fuel. Now you suggest a strategy of waiting until its "ready"..
and? "suggesting a strategy?" sorry im not here to suggest a strategy. I would love and alternative fuel source so we can cut ties with mideast oil. I, like the rest of us, have to wait until its ready.
I don't know if recent oil and gas prices are politically related. I doubt you do either. But Bush has tried it before. And the US-Saudi relationship has a large impact on the global oil market. Ever since Franklen Roosevelt met with King Abdul Aziz ibn Saud in 1945 to agree to defend the House of Saud in exchange for privaleged access to oil.
sorry dude, I do know. I do it for a living. I work for a trading firm that deals heavily in oil. the recent price moves have absolutely nothing to do with politics. NOTHING.
"US-Saudi relationship has a large impact on the global oil market" wow did you use google to find that out or figure it out on your own? we use over 20 million barrells of oil per day. guess which country produces the most oil? good thing Roosevelt did that or we might be paying 10 bucks a gallon for gas.
the recent price moves have absolutely nothing to do with politics. NOTHING.
quote]
Have you checked out reason we got back to 59 bucks yesterday??? Norweigen Platforms closed due to government mandates.....yes along with smaller reserves for distillates and heating oil...but there's daily news on actions of governments that do influence price of oil.....now as I've stated with you before...yes Georgy can't call his buddies and say drop the price by 10 bucks...but governments can and do affect the price of oil...to what extent..well thats the real question...but they do.
And...oil companies can also affect the price of gas in the US..and thats really what wer're talking about....lower the price of gas...less resentment towards current administration...and again I'll use the BP Alaskan pipeline example...or keeping refinery off line for repairs...or not building more refineries to ease the supply/demand relationship.
the recent price moves have absolutely nothing to do with politics. NOTHING.
quote]
Have you checked out reason we got back to 59 bucks yesterday??? Norweigen Platforms closed due to government mandates.....yes along with smaller reserves for distillates and heating oil...but there's daily news on actions of governments that do influence price of oil.....now as I've stated with you before...yes Georgy can't call his buddies and say drop the price by 10 bucks...but governments can and do affect the price of oil...to what extent..well thats the real question...but they do.
And...oil companies can also affect the price of gas in the US..and thats really what wer're talking about....lower the price of gas...less resentment towards current administration...and again I'll use the BP Alaskan pipeline example...or keeping refinery off line for repairs...or not building more refineries to ease the supply/demand relationship.
peace...
Callen
your right I should be more clear. NOTHING isnt exactly true. but its not the the extent that most people think. and most people think the price of oil has something to do with politics. it doesnt. that was more the point I was trying to make. the price will change based on governmental policies, but again, very little. the price changes over time still are influenced by supply and demand. not whether big OIL or kind Saud wants a republican to stay i noffice. you are correct in most of your statements. except maybe the last part. oil companies dont build more refineries because nobody "wants them in their backyard". also, oil companies will not lower the price of gas to lower resentment for bush. they lower the price of gas based on the price they pay for a barrel of oil. oil prices went up the past few days due to what you mentioned (i didnt know that but I'll take your word for it) and OPEC cutting supply by 1 million barrells. this week or next the price of gas will go up a few pennies. regardless of how close we are to November
America's need for oil is not influenced by the national energy policy. its influenced by a need to fill your gas tank when its empty. or to heat your house in the winter.
The national energy policy affects the efficiency with which these things are done. Demand could be reduced by increasing fuel economy standards, renewable energy tax credits, and more incentives for biofuels.
again, this thread is about the correlation between the price of gas dropping and republicans staying in office. you claim to think Bush has influence of demand and supply. he doesnt. the price of oil is set on the open market. bush's influence (or any president) barely moves the price enough for anyone to notice. his influence comes if we start bombing Iran. if Iran takes there oil off the market due to bush's actions, the price will sky rocket.
He tried it before. Why would you be sure he wouldn't try it again.
sorry dude, I do know. I do it for a living. I work for a trading firm that deals heavily in oil. the recent price moves have absolutely nothing to do with politics. NOTHING.
This doesn't make you privy to reasoning behind Saudi oil market decisions.
"US-Saudi relationship has a large impact on the global oil market" wow did you use google to find that out or figure it out on your own? we use over 20 million barrells of oil per day. guess which country produces the most oil? good thing Roosevelt did that or we might be paying 10 bucks a gallon for gas.
So a US president close to the Saudis can affect the price of gas and oil. Got it.
Comments
I thought we were talking about gas prices plumetting before the the '06 congressional elections. You are talking about presidential '08?
Either way....nothing will change that drastically if dems win. But there will be a stronger push for alternative resources (which is actually the best way to fight terrorism).
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11-29-2013 Portland. 10-16-2014 Detroit. 8-8-2018 Seattle. 8-10-2018 Seattle. 8-13-2018 Missoula. 5-10-2024 Portland. 5-30-2024 Seattle.
and the price of oil can be manipulated via supply, correct...? and correct me if I'm wrong, China and India (recent excuses) are still thirsty for oil, right...?
Iran is still "saber-rattleing" (yet another excuse), right..?
Nigeria is still unstable (yup, another excuse), right...?
listen, all I'm saying is that I'm skeptical...and Milestone raises good points, which I'm sure will fall on deaf ears (or blind eyes)...
06 or 08 doesnt matter. government has nothing to do with the price of oil. everybody understand now? good.
and i'm with you, lets find an alternative method. fine with me.
wow! got $2.59 the other day in Syracuse, NY and thought it was a deal!
Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
I saw Hard To Imagine LIVE at MSG!
Becuase I felt like it. Any other questions??
Plus Im unemployed now and have alot of time to spend on here now...
Look foward to seein ya.
he is just skepitcal that you work for the government and are plotting out how to take him down.
durr de dum dum durrrrr....
sorry to hear you're not working, I hope it was by choice...good luck...
the point of this thread was completely shot down last week when OPEC cut production. let me remind you.....
the original poster suggested that gas prices coming down were connected to our corrupt government trying to win the election in November. several people agreed.
OPEC cut production, casuing the price of oil to go up (hence gas goes up). is that good or bad for republicans right now? I guess they are even bad at being corrupt.
Unfortunately, it was not by choice. Was a production manager for a locally owned company here in town and after 13 years.. POOF!!! Company closed!!Owner drug the company into the ground! With all my experience, still can't get a job. SUCKS!! But what ya gonna do right?
Thanks for the luck. I need it!
what im saying isn't necessarily tied to republicans and winning. it's a dynamic process. why is everyone so cut and dry lately? extreme one way or the other,... i think there are a few people in position that are taking advantage of the situation and price galging (sp) the shit out of people, only b/c we are dependent on it. im sure bush sees profit from big oil. i hope you wouldn't doubt that. no, i don't think bush is directly in control of the price of oil. i think he has ties with big oil; wherein, he sees profit and has made big decisions with oil in mind. im sure big oil is somewhat dependent on bush.
i could be wrong though. im not an economist.
~Ron Burgundy
Enron and other large traders asked the government to slip a loophole into the law in 2000 allowing them to manipulate the energy markets, including oil. The government did.
http://www.senate.gov/~govt-aff/index.cfm?Fuseaction=PressReleases.View&PressRelease_id=1278&Affiliation=C
For all those reasons and others you shouldn't apologize for being skeptical. You are right not to follow blindly. You are right to question. They've tried it before, let me remind you...
http://www.forbes.com/home/newswire/2004/04/18/rtr1335645.html
Saudis pledged oil price cut before US vote-report
Reuters, 04.18.04, 4:33 PM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia's ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, promised President Bush the Saudis would cut oil prices before November to ensure the U.S. economy is strong on election day, journalist Bob Woodward said in a television interview Sunday.
lets
Just a side-remark here. You say that oil is a freely traded commodity and governments have no influence on it. Well maybe. Governments of oil-producing countries certainly have influence on it. But enough of that.
A freely traded commodity can certainly be manipulated by the people buying it, and particularly the high rollers who buy and/or sell alot of it. they will have an effect on markets, and can manipulate prices if they go about it nimbly enough. Also, not that I have specific knowledge about market analysis and price speculation, but in economic issues in general, it seems people follow the stream, and often base their analysis on similar sources, if not the same. So by controlling a pivotal business or source in the economy, one can be in a position to control prices. My main point is that markets lend themselves nicely to manipulation by big and/or influential actors. May not be the US government, but manipulation, gouging and artificial inflation or deflation of prices is certainly possible. In the language of today free market merely means "in the control of the big money guys" for the most part.
That being said, annual price fluctuation does happen, as the graphs also show, and I am not doubting your knowledge on this. Just saying generally.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
your right. buyers and sellers control the price of oil. they "maniuplate" the price. they also take on the risk of those trades.
also needs to be mentioned, 40% of the supply is controlled by OPEC. so oil isnt exactly a "freely" traded commodity. price is set on the open market, supply is not. those fucks can do whatever they feel is right. such as cutting supply to keep the price above 60 dollars a barrel.
my whole point from the beginning is government does not have anything to do with the recent price drop. or rise for that matter. everyone here believes bush is "in" with the oil compnaies. guess what, so are 99.9% of americans. we need oil.
lets find an alternative. and let OPEC takes baths in all their un needed oil.
http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2006/June/06_crm_401.html
"WASHINGTON – Dennis N. Abbott, a former trader at a U.S. subsidiary of British Petroleum, has pleaded guilty to conspiring to manipulate and corner the propane market in the winter of 2004, Assistant Attorney General Alice S. Fisher of the Criminal Division announced today."
Of course bush and his administration is "in" with the oil companies.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1138009.stm
"What makes the new Bush administration different from previous wealthy cabinets is that so many of the officials have links to the same industry - oil."
They are also in business with the Bin Laden family and have close business and personal ties to Saudi Royalty.
http://www.slate.com/id/2117535/ Yes, we need a change in leadership.
trying to corner markets has been happening in all commidites since the beginning. it doesnt just apply to oil or energy commidites. but you are correct.
he may have an in with the oil companies but so does america. we need oil. its a sad fact. if you invest in oil companies, chances are you will make money.
if democrats win in 08, they seem to embrace technology much better then republicans. not sure if a political party can bring an alternative fuel faster though. imagine how much money will be made when it becomes available. if and when its ready to be mass produced, it will. regardless who is in office.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
2006 Vegas, San Diego, LA 9 & 10, San Francisco 15 &16, The Gorge 22 & 23, Syd 7 &8, Melb 13, 14 &16 Melb 20 2009, Buffalo Oct 12; Brooklyn Oct 18 & 19; Hartford Oct 25 2013
well thats the point. it all matters on what that alternative is. the goal, I would think of an alternative, is to use "it" less and have "it" last longer. either way, there will be a demand and supply for that product. price, like always, will be based on that.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,219637,00.html
M O N E Y I N T H E B A N K.........
*****driving A Car Is A Luxury******
you guys don't use gas?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Thanks for the financial advice. But most americans don't invest in oil companies. America's need for oil is influenced by the national energy policy. In the development of this policy, Bush takes advice from secret sources behind closed doors. Those secret sources include big oil; who lie to america about it during testimony before congress.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111501842.html
"A White House document shows that executives from big oil companies met with Vice President Cheney's energy task force in 2001 -- something long suspected by environmentalists but denied as recently as last week by industry officials testifying before Congress."
In addition to influence over demand, Bush has influence over supply. His ties to big oil and Saudi royalty have been mentioned. And other presidents with looser ties to the Saudis have asked them to sway the price of oil, including democrats Clinton and Carter. And again, Bush has been caught trying the very scheme you claim can't happen.
Earlier you suggested seeking out alternative fuel. Now you suggest a strategy of waiting until its "ready".
Money may or may not be the drive. There is a tremendous investment by big oil in their infastructure. The longer we wait for new fuels the greater the return on this investment. Renewable fuels may be less lucrative than oil. There is less potential for a small number of entities to control the resource if it is renewable.
I don't know if recent oil and gas prices are politically related. I doubt you do either. But Bush has tried it before. And the US-Saudi relationship has a large impact on the global oil market. Ever since Franklen Roosevelt met with King Abdul Aziz ibn Saud in 1945 to agree to defend the House of Saud in exchange for privaleged access to oil.
America's need for oil is not influenced by the national energy policy. its influenced by a need to fill your gas tank when its empty. or to heat your house in the winter.
again, this thread is about the correlation between the price of gas dropping and republicans staying in office. you claim to think Bush has influence of demand and supply. he doesnt. the price of oil is set on the open market. bush's influence (or any president) barely moves the price enough for anyone to notice. his influence comes if we start bombing Iran. if Iran takes there oil off the market due to bush's actions, the price will sky rocket.
and? "suggesting a strategy?" sorry im not here to suggest a strategy. I would love and alternative fuel source so we can cut ties with mideast oil. I, like the rest of us, have to wait until its ready.
sorry dude, I do know. I do it for a living. I work for a trading firm that deals heavily in oil. the recent price moves have absolutely nothing to do with politics. NOTHING.
"US-Saudi relationship has a large impact on the global oil market" wow did you use google to find that out or figure it out on your own? we use over 20 million barrells of oil per day. guess which country produces the most oil? good thing Roosevelt did that or we might be paying 10 bucks a gallon for gas.
your right I should be more clear. NOTHING isnt exactly true. but its not the the extent that most people think. and most people think the price of oil has something to do with politics. it doesnt. that was more the point I was trying to make. the price will change based on governmental policies, but again, very little. the price changes over time still are influenced by supply and demand. not whether big OIL or kind Saud wants a republican to stay i noffice. you are correct in most of your statements. except maybe the last part. oil companies dont build more refineries because nobody "wants them in their backyard". also, oil companies will not lower the price of gas to lower resentment for bush. they lower the price of gas based on the price they pay for a barrel of oil. oil prices went up the past few days due to what you mentioned (i didnt know that but I'll take your word for it) and OPEC cutting supply by 1 million barrells. this week or next the price of gas will go up a few pennies. regardless of how close we are to November
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_price_increases_of_2004_and_2005
some good info here.
course I would much rather believe its Bush's fault okay...damnit. :-)
The national energy policy affects the efficiency with which these things are done. Demand could be reduced by increasing fuel economy standards, renewable energy tax credits, and more incentives for biofuels.
He tried it before. Why would you be sure he wouldn't try it again.
This doesn't make you privy to reasoning behind Saudi oil market decisions.
So a US president close to the Saudis can affect the price of gas and oil. Got it.
From your source:
"The short term price of oil is partially controlled by the OPEC cartel and the oligopoly of major oil companies."