Gas Prices

inmytree

The Illinoisemakers wrote:

We are moving towards winter blend gasoline. It is cheaper to refine, due to less stringent environmental regulations. This isn't the first time gas prices have taken a dip during fall. Expect prices to increase when summer approachs as they switch back to summer blends.

This guy gives a pretty good explanation
http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/9/13/234043/431

Funny how people seem to actually be upset that gas prices are falling. Makes no sense to me.

I'm unsure as to where I stated I was upset with falling gas prices...what I'm upset about is the high gas prices, often justified with the same excuses...

but, hey, if you are happy with paying 2 and 3 dollar a gallon prices, that's cool with me...I just happen to think there are "other" factors at play...

therover

surferdude wrote:

Because the Dems have never done anything worse than get a blow job. Dems motives are only for the betterment of humanity and America.

They've never done anything like illegally bomb and attack a country say like Kosovo or lie under in a Congretional hearing.

Now Republicans are tricky bastards. They can control things they have no control over, all the while headed by the stupidest person to ever exist. Now there's a party you can't trust.

Ha,ha! You forgot to put the A-bomb and Vietnam under the Dems as well.

The Illinoisemakers

inmytree wrote:

I'm unsure as to where I stated I was upset with falling gas prices...what I'm upset about is the high gas prices, often justified with the same excuses...

but, hey, if you are happy with paying 2 and 3 dollar a gallon prices, that's cool with me...I just happen to think there are "other" factors at play...

I'd rather pay 2 or 3 dollars then the 4 dollars everyone was screaming was soon to come. What other factors are you refering to. Thanks.

Cosmo

The Illinoisemakers wrote:

Yes I remember all of that, I wasn't really complaining about it though. I was a little young to really know what the hell was going on. No I wont tell you that Republicans were sitting there in silence, I'm sure they weren't and rightfully so. But I'm not talking about all of that. I was only talking about the topic of this thread, gas prices falling.

...
My bad... I thought you said, "If the dems were in control and prices were falling, which they would because it has nothing to do with elections, would they be blaming the dems? I doubt it."
...
Personally... I think Republicans and Democrats are two side of the same cum soaked joy rag.

The Illinoisemakers

Cosmo wrote:

...
My bad... I thought you said, "If the dems were in control and prices were falling, which they would because it has nothing to do with elections, would they be blaming the dems? I doubt it."
...
Personally... I think Republicans and Democrats are two side of the same cum soaked joy rag.

Interesting take on our two party system. Yes that is what I said, I'm not sure why you are having such a hard time understanding it.

Cosmo

The Illinoisemakers wrote:

Interesting take on our two party system. Yes that is what I said, I'm not sure why you are having such a hard time understanding it.

...
What? I thought you meant that if there was a Democratic Administration in office... and the same conditions existed... which they would because the economy and the Administration have nothing to do with each other... that NCFan would not be blaming the Democrats about the irratic price of gasoline.
I don't know if he would. If the same sleaziness and lies and misinformation were equal... I'm guessing, yeah... NCFan would still be pissed off.
...
Same as I often wonder what the FOX News casts and the stay the course Conservatives would be saying if Iraq was Al Gore's War. Would Sean Hannity, Bill O'Rielly, JSand and the other Bush/War supporters feel the same way they do today? Or would they be pissed off that Al Gore stood on the deck of the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln and declared combat operations have ceased in 2003 and 2,700 U.S. servicemen came home in boxes?
I don't know for sure... but, I have my hunches.

NCfan

The Illinoisemakers wrote:

I guess I'm just missing how lower gas prices are a bad thing. People want to blame Bush for that? i don't get it. If the dems were in control and prices were falling, which they would because it has nothing to do with elections, would they be blaming the dems? I doubt it.

Lower gas prices = slower move towards alternative fuels

Slower move towards alternative fuels = more polution for our planet and more money in the hands of foriegn governments that wish to check the influence of the United States.

Money in the hands of these governments = subsidies for their respective citizens.

Subisdies = happier citizens

Happier citizens = stronger grip on power for respective regimes

stronger grip on power = slower move towards democracy in countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc... and more funding for Hezbollah, Hamas, etc.

If George Bush was serious about fighting terror, he would raise the price of oil to spur development of alternative fuels and he would cease tarrifs on Brazillian produced sugar cane ethanol imports.

The sooner we quit handing billions of dollars anually to these countries = the quicker their oil-dependant and non-diversified economies will slow.

Their economies slowing = less subsidies for their citizens.

Less subsidies = equals civil unrest

Civil unrest = improved likelyhood of regime change

chopitdown

inmytree wrote:

I predicted a in that thread a couple of weeks ago, gas would be below 2 bucks by november 1....I bet I'm right....

i filled up for 1.91/g the other day.

bootlegger10

inmytree wrote:

I predicted a in that thread a couple of weeks ago, gas would be below 2 bucks by november 1....I bet I'm right....

I predict it will be cold in Minnesota in January. I bet I'm right.

jlew24asu

OPEC to cut production. what a shocker. that means supply goes down, price goes up. how dare they do this before the election. this thread is a joke. NCfan. I hear what your trying to say in your last post, but its simply illogical. keep up the fight for alternative fuels. but take it easy on the government sucks BS. they have nothing to do with the price of oil.



http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?feed=OBR&Date=20061005&ID=6078943

NCfan

jlew24asu wrote:

OPEC to cut production. what a shocker. that means supply goes down, price goes up. how dare they do this before the election. this thread is a joke. NCfan. I hear what your trying to say in your last post, but its simply illogical. keep up the fight for alternative fuels. but take it easy on the government sucks BS. they have nothing to do with the price of oil.



http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?feed=OBR&Date=20061005&ID=6078943

I understand the relationship between free markets, commodities and how they operate outside the realm of government influence - in a pure economic sense.

For a lot of reasons - some cyclical, some technical and some having to do with the emergence of alternative fuels and conservation - the price of oil has come down.

My point is that I'm mad at our government for keeping us "hooked" on foreign oil and our citizens for being too dumb or indifferent for demanding change.

Bush wants to talk as if he has the guts to make the "hard" decissions in our time. He would have us believe we are in a global war - in a clash of civilizations with the future of mankind hanging in the balance.

Well... if this shit is so serious, and I believe it is very serious - then why not stand up and do something bold about our addition to petroleum? Brazil started in the 1970's and look at where they are now?

We talk alot of talk, but do little or nothing. Our politcal discourse centers around two parties yelling at each other and taking cheap shots in an effort to win favor with the American electorate. But Americans are fed up with everyone's bullshit in Washington.

Our lawmakers are busy debating stupid, non-essential issues like gay marraige, abortion and "Under God" in our pledge of allegaince. Meanwhile, billions of dollars in windfall profits are flowing to radical regimes and from there recycled to fund terrorist organizations who plot more 9/11's against us. Our country is completely void of solid leadership, and Amercans are too busy buying up cheap consumer goods at Wal-Mart and tuning into Laguna Beach to know what the fuck is happening to them.

They turn on the news to try and make sense of everything, but all they hear is Bill O'Rielly or some left-wing nut shouting about Conservatives vs. Liberals. Ever wonder why John Stewart and Steven Colbert are so popular? They are making a living off of our dumb-ass politicians. It's just a circus in D.C.

Oil is the life-blood of the modern free-market economy and therefore Democracy. How did we drop the ball on this and let a country like Brazil pick it up and take the lead? Furthermore, we are taxing Brazilian ethanol on behalf of our corn farmers, proving once again that our lawmakers don't have the best interest of our country at heart - just their PAC's and campaign contributors.

Bush talks out of both sides of his mouth. He says we need to make sacrifices to defeat terrorism, yet the only people he ask to put something on the line are our troops.

I don't think he is an evil man, but nobody can deny that he is indeed a Texas oilman at heart. I don't belive he conspired 9/11, but nobody can deny that his family has rich, historic ties to the Saudi royal family.

Basically, we are a smart, progressive country. In hindsight, it seems obvious that our government sold us out to oil companies a long time ago. If Brazil could see the writing on the wall in 70's why didn't we? I mean, it's not like there wasn't an oil embargo back then or anything. It's not like one of our Embassies got overran and Amercians held hostage for a long time. It's not like angry mobs weren't roaming around over there chanting "death to America".

I do belive government influences the price of oil in that it has let our country become hostage to OPEC. We should have started decades ago inventing technology that would ween us from the grips of a cartel that is highly militant towards the United States and democracy across the broader world.

callen

The Illinoisemakers wrote:

I guess I'm just missing how lower gas prices are a bad thing. People want to blame Bush for that? i don't get it. If the dems were in control and prices were falling, which they would because it has nothing to do with elections, would they be blaming the dems? I doubt it.

and stayed there for couple years....Expedition, Escalade, Excursion, Yukon, Suburban...etc etc drivers would pay more....and it would kill the resale values along with eventually demand thus forcing manufacturers to limit or even eliminate production......fk I live in well to do suburb of Houston...big SUV capital of the world....think GM is selling all their inventory of new Yukons and Suburbans to my neighbors. If not they are serously under reporting units sold...(-:

and living in a city with little mass transit, maybe there would be a chance that would change.......

Even as much as I'd like to think it, our government doesn't have much influence in manipulating oil prices....but big oil can and does....and they like having Republicans in office.

jlew24asu

callen wrote:

Even as much as I'd like to think it, our government doesn't have much influence in manipulating oil prices....but big oil can and does....and they like having Republicans in office.

sorry your wrong. they can manipulate gas prices, not oil, by price gouging. but that only happens at the gas station level. the price of oil is set on the open market. thats the bottom line.

did OPEC decide to cut production and raise prices to make republicans look good? I thought they want republicans to stay in office? now im confused.

callen

jlew24asu wrote:

sorry your wrong. they can manipulate gas prices, not oil, by price gouging. but that only happens at the gas station level. the price of oil is set on the open market. thats the bottom line.

did OPEC decide to cut production and raise prices to make republicans look good? I thought they want republicans to stay in office? now im confused.

hmmm okay...how about shutting down the Alaskan oil fields??? Exxon.
How about cutting production due to perceived threats to employees??? Shell.
How about keeping refinery's off line...maint. etc???? all of them.
How about them just not building new refineries?? again all of them.
How about them praying for another hurricane??? okay thats a joke...I know, not very funny....but trying to get you to smile... the "sorry your wrong" was little harsh...even if I am mistaken...(-; you know cause I'm not in the business like you.

jlew24asu

callen wrote:

hmmm okay...how about shutting down the Alaskan oil fields??? Exxon.
How about cutting production due to perceived threats to employees??? Shell.
How about keeping refinery's off line...maint. etc???? all of them.
How about them praying for another hurricane??? okay thats a joke...I know, not very funny....but trying to get you to smile... the "sorry your wrong" was little harsh...even if I am mistaken...(-;

I apologize, I didnt intend to coming off as harsh. I am a kinda passionate about this subject cuz I do it for a living. (no I dont work for oil co's, I work in the trading markets, particularly oil and others.) it bothers me when people chime in and blame the government for high (or in this case low) oil prices. you not one of them, which is good. the things you mentioned really dont play too much of a factor on the price of oil. some, yes. but not very significant. when the companies make annoucements, like the ones you mnetioned, the price of oil might move up a dollar or less which translates into pennies at the pump. the change will not be sustained however due to so many other factors. OPEC has about 100x times more power then the oil companies. and as proven today, they do not give a fuck about who is in office. for some reason, people dont believe in the laws of supply and demand. sorry about being harsh. no hard feelings I hope

callen

jlew24asu wrote:

I apologize, I didnt intend to coming off as harsh. I am a kinda passionate about this subject cuz I do it for a living. (no I dont work for oil co's, I work in the trading markets, particularly oil and others.) it bothers me when people chime in and blame the government for high (or in this case low) oil prices. you not one of them, which is good. the things you mentioned really dont play too much of a factor on the price of oil. some, yes. but not very significant. when the companies make annoucements, like the ones you mnetioned, the price of oil might move up a dollar or less which translates into pennies at the pump. the change will not be sustained however due to so many other factors. OPEC has about 100x times more power then the oil companies. and as proven today, they do not give a fuck about who is in office. for some reason, people dont believe in the laws of supply and demand. sorry about being harsh. no hard feelings I hope

cause I did agree with pretty much everything you stated earlier...and I know/knew that oil companies have little impact...just lightening it up. Course as you can see I get the same as you about big SUV's....Peace.

The Illinoisemakers

callen wrote:

and stayed there for couple years....Expedition, Escalade, Excursion, Yukon, Suburban...etc etc drivers would pay more....and it would kill the resale values along with eventually demand thus forcing manufacturers to limit or even eliminate production......fk I live in well to do suburb of Houston...big SUV capital of the world....think GM is selling all their inventory of new Yukons and Suburbans to my neighbors. If not they are serously under reporting units sold...(-:

and living in a city with little mass transit, maybe there would be a chance that would change.......

Even as much as I'd like to think it, our government doesn't have much influence in manipulating oil prices....but big oil can and does....and they like having Republicans in office.

You realize that 4 dollar gas prices aren't going to only hurt SUV drives in the pocket? Everyone who buys food at a grocery store, which most do, will hurt when the price of food that is shipped in on a big truck goes way up, because shipping companies are paying 5 bucks a gallon for diesal.

I hear people talking about high gas prices being good in order to help speed the use of alternative fuel sources. Do you really think oil companies aren't working on that already. Are they just going to wait tell gas runs out and say, oh shit we better figure something out. It's a business and any successful business invests heavely in r&d if they want to survive.

callen

The Illinoisemakers wrote:

You realize that 4 dollar gas prices aren't going to only hurt SUV drives in the pocket? Everyone who buys food at a grocery store, which most do, will hurt when the price of food that is shipped in on a big truck goes way up, because shipping companies are paying 5 bucks a gallon for diesal.

I hear people talking about high gas prices being good in order to help speed the use of alternative fuel sources. Do you really think oil companies aren't working on that already. Are they just going to wait tell gas runs out and say, oh shit we better figure something out. It's a business and any successful business invests heavely in r&d if they want to survive.

how bad it is for the working poor....just at what point is it going to explode anyway...gas will go up...its just a matter of time...and if we get a relatively short period of 4 bucks a gallon...maybe just maybe we will change our ways. I had the privelege of seeing "our" favorite band in Europe..and it just floors me when I saw the size of average car..and the amount & quality of public transportation...and the small cars that have trailor hitches.....no real need for 5000 lb truck for average person in US....even though most weigh in excess of 250lbs.... (-:

NCfan

The Illinoisemakers wrote:

You realize that 4 dollar gas prices aren't going to only hurt SUV drives in the pocket? Everyone who buys food at a grocery store, which most do, will hurt when the price of food that is shipped in on a big truck goes way up, because shipping companies are paying 5 bucks a gallon for diesal.

I hear people talking about high gas prices being good in order to help speed the use of alternative fuel sources. Do you really think oil companies aren't working on that already. Are they just going to wait tell gas runs out and say, oh shit we better figure something out. It's a business and any successful business invests heavely in r&d if they want to survive.

Of course it will be painfull to the average American. That is the whole point. We aren't going to change our bad habits unless we are forced to.... that is human nature.

But I would sure rather hurt for a little while than face, or have my children face the alternatives down the road.

Sure, oil companies are working on renawable fuels - no doubt about that. But I think they will sell every barrel of oil they can pump before they switch to the alternative. It's all about profitablility.

Can you tell me why Brazil is close to being self-sufficient on fuel and we are not??????

The Illinoisemakers

NCfan wrote:

Of course it will be painfull to the average American. That is the whole point. We aren't going to change our bad habits unless we are forced to.... that is human nature.

But I would sure rather hurt for a little while than face, or have my children face the alternatives down the road.

Sure, oil companies are working on renawable fuels - no doubt about that. But I think they will sell every barrel of oil they can pump before they switch to the alternative. It's all about profitablility.

Can you tell me why Brazil is close to being self-sufficient on fuel and we are not??????

No i can't tell you why. How many people live in Brazil? How developed is their economy compared to ours?

I don't know about Oil companies waiting till the last minute to switch to the alternative. I imagine that it will take upwards of fifteen years to switch out all of our gasoline driven engines for something else. I think we'll see a gradual transition from one to the other. Too fast and many will be left behind, too slow and the oil/motor campanies are going to lose too much money. I think a great step in the right direction is the increase in hybrid cars we are seeing. I know that the next car I buy will be a hybrid, hopefully they have a nice midsize 4x4 truck by then.