Our Religious Nuts Versus Theirs

NCfan

For those that think all zealots are equal, please take a look at this youtube clip.

http://www.towleroad.com/2007/11/pat-robertson-g.html

This is fucking crazy, but it's a far cry from trying to kill infedels. This is something specific to Islam. Sure, ultra right-wing Christians kill abortion doctors becuase they "sin". But I'm not sure I've ever heard of an instance of a Christian killing someone else for not believing.

This is an epidimic in the Islamic world. Please discuss.

Collin

I'm sorry to say this but to me this discussion is rather pointless. Are the crimes of muslims extremists on average more severe, more extreme to the point of (frequently) killing people for the most insane things etc. than the crimes of the Christian extremists? Yes. I think most people will agree. But does that make the crimes and attrocities the Christian extremists commit ok? ... No? Then what exactly is the point of this thread?

Cosmo

NCfan wrote:

For those that think all zealots are equal, please take a look at this youtube clip.

http://www.towleroad.com/2007/11/pat-robertson-g.html

This is fucking crazy, but it's a far cry from trying to kill infedels. This is something specific to Islam. Sure, ultra right-wing Christians kill abortion doctors becuase they "sin". But I'm not sure I've ever heard of an instance of a Christian killing someone else for not believing.

This is an epidimic in the Islamic world. Please discuss.

...
The Radical, militant wing of Christianity is the Ku Klux Klan.... the radical wing of Islam is al Qaeda.
Therefore, al Qaeda is to islam as the K.K.K. is to Christianity.
...
I think the point you are trying to make is that mainstream Christianity rejects the K.K.K.... but, the same cannot be said for mainstream Muslims.
Am I right?

Commy

Actually the radical militant wing of christianity is republicans..

bootlegger10

Cosmo wrote:

...
The Radical, militant wing of Christianity is the Ku Klux Klan.... the radical wing of Islam is al Qaeda.
Therefore, al Qaeda is to islam as the K.K.K. is to Christianity.
...
I think the point you are trying to make is that mainstream Christianity rejects the K.K.K.... but, the same cannot be said for mainstream Muslims.
Am I right?

You are right. Radical Islam is much, much more prevalent than radical Christians, which begs the question: What if Islam is just a violent religion?

And seriously, what do radical Christians do? I don't know when the last time an abortion clinic was blown up (meaning that it is very, very, very rare)? I don't think anyone gets killed for preaching a faith other than Christianity. Oh no, they express verbally that they are against homosexuality and abortion. If you think the wars in Iraq are Christian wars, than make up your mind for your reasons, because I thought it was all about oil and imperialism. So, in my opinion I think comparing radical Christians (who are more defined by their thoughts than actions) to radical Muslims (who are more defined by their actions) is trivial.

LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun

plus, there are maybe 12 KKK guys left holed up in Kentucky somewhere...

810wmb

Commy wrote:

Actually the radical militant wing of christianity is republicans..

yeah, that's why there are videos of republicans cutting off heads of people

Cosmo

MrSmith wrote:

plus, there are maybe 12 KKK guys left holed up in Kentucky somewhere...

...
Actually... I believe they have been just driven deeper undergound. I think it is hard for racists views to change to tolerance... and much easier to keep your mouth shut and blend in with the crowd. and I find it hard to believe that racists change their views because other people disapprove of them.

bootlegger10

Cosmo wrote:

...
Actually... I believe they have been just driven deeper undergound. I think it is hard for racists views to change to tolerance... and much easier to keep your mouth shut and blend in with the crowd. and I find it hard to believe that racists change their views because other people disapprove of them.

Hopefully they go underground and don't take their kids with them.

blackredyellow

bootlegger10 wrote:

You are right. Radical Islam is much, much more prevalent than radical Christians, which begs the question: What if Islam is just a violent religion?

And seriously, what do radical Christians do? I don't know when the last time an abortion clinic was blown up (meaning that it is very, very, very rare)? I don't think anyone gets killed for preaching a faith other than Christianity. Oh no, they express verbally that they are against homosexuality and abortion. If you think the wars in Iraq are Christian wars, than make up your mind for your reasons, because I thought it was all about oil and imperialism. So, in my opinion I think comparing radical Christians (who are more defined by their thoughts than actions) to radical Muslims (who are more defined by their actions) is trivial.

Part of it is the time i think... It just seems like Islam is behind Christianity... with things like the crusades and witch trials and even the genocide of Native Americans to and extent, Christian fundamentalists (and governments using Christianity for it's own imperialistic purposes) have had more than their share of violence over the centuries... We often make the exaggerated comparison of people in the middle east living in the stone age in regards to their economy, technology and quality of life, maybe their use of religion for violence is as far behind as everything else in terms of evolving. Hopefully with time it gets better.

Globalization is the solution for so much... once younger generations of these oppressed countries openly see or experience how other cultures live, they will grow up empowered with knowledge that previous generations didn't/don't have.

Cosmo

bootlegger10 wrote:

You are right. Radical Islam is much, much more prevalent than radical Christians, which begs the question: What if Islam is just a violent religion?

And seriously, what do radical Christians do? I don't know when the last time an abortion clinic was blown up (meaning that it is very, very, very rare)? I don't think anyone gets killed for preaching a faith other than Christianity. Oh no, they express verbally that they are against homosexuality and abortion. If you think the wars in Iraq are Christian wars, than make up your mind for your reasons, because I thought it was all about oil and imperialism. So, in my opinion I think comparing radical Christians (who are more defined by their thoughts than actions) to radical Muslims (who are more defined by their actions) is trivial.

...
There's a difference between the Abortion Bomber quacks and the Klansmen that quote Biblical passages about not mixing of blood, Jews killing Jesus and other loony interpretations. The Klan claims to be a militant wing of Christianity... the Abortion bomber is just a psycho using Christianity to justify his violence against a practice he deems as immoral.
...
But, the bottom line is.. most Christians will speak out and truely condemn the killing of doctors and the bombing of clinics. But can the same be said for the majority of Muslims? What is their reaction when a car bomb kills people?

Commy

bootlegger10 wrote:

You are right. Radical Islam is much, much more prevalent than radical Christians, which begs the question: What if Islam is just a violent religion?

And seriously, what do radical Christians do? I don't know when the last time an abortion clinic was blown up (meaning that it is very, very, very rare)? I don't think anyone gets killed for preaching a faith other than Christianity. Oh no, they express verbally that they are against homosexuality and abortion. If you think the wars in Iraq are Christian wars, than make up your mind for your reasons, because I thought it was all about oil and imperialism. So, in my opinion I think comparing radical Christians (who are more defined by their thoughts than actions) to radical Muslims (who are more defined by their actions) is trivial.

Western media (VERY powerful, pervasive) has turned this into a war between western democracy vs Arab fundamentalism. Could be. Or maybe its just a simple matter of conquest-given context from a historical perspective this view is much more likey.

People believe what they choose to believe.

deadnothingbetter

Collin wrote:

I'm sorry to say this but to me this discussion is rather pointless. Are the crimes of muslims extremists on average more severe, more extreme to the point of (frequently) killing people for the most insane things etc. than the crimes of the Christian extremists? Yes. I think most people will agree. But does that make the crimes and attrocities the Christian extremists commit ok? ... No? Then what exactly is the point of this thread?

what was the crime committed on that youtube clip? i'm confused.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Is religion a mental disorder?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haBLjVqrrjM

deadnothingbetter

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Is religion a mental disorder?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haBLjVqrrjM

what's the point? why do people have such hostility towards beliefs? i don't get it.

deadnothingbetter

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Is religion a mental disorder?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haBLjVqrrjM

my father was actually about 35 or 36 when he became a "christian". before that he was a radio dj making a crapload of money. then he left all that cause he found something that satisfied him emotionally rather than all the money that never satisfied him. did he get infected with delusions, schyzophrenia, psychosis, neurosis and such at that age? are mental disorders contagious?

Songburst

deadnothingbetter wrote:

my father was actually about 35 or 36 when he became a "christian". before that he was a radio dj making a crapload of money. then he left all that cause he found something that satisfied him emotionally rather than all the money that never satisfied him. did he get infected with delusions, schyzophrenia, psychosis, neurosis and such at that age? are mental disorders contagious?

We have a saying around here: "There are none so righteous as the reformed."

I have been in some crazy Christian churches (like Evangelist, Baptist, Dutch Reform) and I will say, without hesitating, that they are fucking crazy. They were relentless in preying upon the fears of children (saying things like you go to hell if you don't give your life to Jesus by saying the words out loud in front of everybody). They really put the fun in fundamentalism.

Catholics just follow some old rituals, but most don't really believe in them anymore - money is the catholic church's main concern these days.

Other more moderate Christian churches are ok in that they don't preach craziness on a regular basis, but there is still an underlying uneasiness I have about telling kids that they will go to hell if they don't follow Jesus. It's absurd.

fuck

Cosmo wrote:

...
There's a difference between the Abortion Bomber quacks and the Klansmen that quote Biblical passages about not mixing of blood, Jews killing Jesus and other loony interpretations. The Klan claims to be a militant wing of Christianity... the Abortion bomber is just a psycho using Christianity to justify his violence against a practice he deems as immoral.
...
But, the bottom line is.. most Christians will speak out and truely condemn the killing of doctors and the bombing of clinics. But can the same be said for the majority of Muslims? What is their reaction when a car bomb kills people?

Well, it's not so simple. You have to break it down.

Just because there are much mroe prevalent extremists in the Middle East this time does not mean the religion itself is a violent religion, regardless of any half ass translation of the Quran someone pulls out. But considering the fact that they're an oppressed people at this time, and are always turning to religion, it's different. Honestly, how many self-proclaimed Catholics these days actually, and I mean ACTUALLY, take their religion to heart like most Muslims do (it IS the fastest growing religion after all).

Now considering everything going on in the Muslim world, the muslims are probably angry enough and (the ones who are fighting atleast) not powerful enough to the point where they turn for any means of rebellion. EVERYONE has fought like this (guerilla warfare). so the muslims are probably not completely satisfied with killing "civilians" and "innocents" but to them now, it's a rebellion and that's what they turn to. it's seen as a victory if they fight.

besides, i mean look at hezbollah who actually avoided trying to hurt civilians in july 2006, while the israelis (sorry for bringing em up, but someone would do it sooner or later) actually killed 1000+.

there are "extremists" everywhere. Jewish extremists that you guys don't hear about on the news. And, in the past, the Christians would travel around the world ruthlessly killing people, which was much worse than anything the muslims do these days. Just because the muslims are the target of the media and westernization doesn't mean they are a violent people.

deadnothingbetter

Songburst wrote:

We have a saying around here: "There are none so righteous as the reformed."

I have been in some crazy Christian churches (like Evangelist, Baptist, Dutch Reform) and I will say, without hesitating, that they are fucking crazy. They were relentless in preying upon the fears of children (saying things like you go to hell if you don't give your life to Jesus by saying the words out loud in front of everybody). They really put the fun in fundamentalism.

Catholics just follow some old rituals, but most don't really believe in them anymore - money is the catholic church's main concern these days.

Other more moderate Christian churches are ok in that they don't preach craziness on a regular basis, but there is still an underlying uneasiness I have about telling kids that they will go to hell if they don't follow Jesus. It's absurd.

i know there are churches that are pretty out there. i once went to a pentecostal church. at first the people were nice, the service wasn't completely out of the ordinary until when about the service was about to end the local pastor went to the pulpit and said in an aggressive and antogonizing tone, "i've been noticing some of you young ladies have been wearing short skirts. i don't want no whores in my church." then that was the last time we'd gone to that church. i was 16 back then.

then there are other churches who believe in deeper and spiritual things rather than silly mundayne things like the kind of clothes you wear, the music you listen to, your political affiliation or scaring kids into christian beliefs. believe me there are churches who are completely aware of other churches mistakes. these are churches who sincerely follow the bible and don't try to force-feed anybody into it. they simply believe that the focus is to restore the soul.

MrBrian

810wmb wrote:

yeah, that's why there are videos of republicans cutting off heads of people

and giving a green light or vote to drop bombs on people is what, more civil?

NMyTree

NCfan wrote:

For those that think all zealots are equal, please take a look at this youtube clip.

http://www.towleroad.com/2007/11/pat-robertson-g.html

This is fucking crazy, but it's a far cry from trying to kill infedels. This is something specific to Islam. Sure, ultra right-wing Christians kill abortion doctors becuase they "sin". But I'm not sure I've ever heard of an instance of a Christian killing someone else for not believing.

This is an epidimic in the Islamic world. Please discuss.

And how is this any different from the belief of UFOs, intelligent life on other planets and the possibility that we have been visited by them, for thousands and thousands of years? I'll tell you.

The latter is much more plausible and there seems to be some significant scientific proof of their existence.