What do you think about this immigration plan?

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Comments

  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    jeffbr wrote:
    The difference is that the services exist for citizens. They don't exist for everyone. And believe me, I do bitch about the number of citizens who are a drain on society and the economy.

    Right, but if one of the biggest reasons to ban immigrants is the drain on the system, then I'm just pointing out that there are bigger issues to that than the immigrants.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    NCfan wrote:
    I'm curious, what other issues are you talking about? The OBJECTIVE view is that people in this group are illegally in the US. That is just a fact, and that is a problem for America. It has absolutely nothing to do with race, ethnicity or heritage, etc.

    Then why can't we just pass a law that makes them legal and makes it simple, quick and painless for anyone to become a citizen who wants to?

    Then they wouldn't be illegal anymore.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    know1 wrote:
    Then why can't we just pass a law that makes them legal and makes it simple, quick and painless for anyone to become a citizen who wants to?

    Then they wouldn't be illegal anymore.
    ...
    Because, seriously... what is it exactly that makes them 'Illegal'?
    A: Not in possession of the proper paperwork.
    ...
    So... if they had the right paperwork... all of these people who adamantly hate them being here would suddenly embrace them?
    Seriously.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Because, seriously... what is it exactly that makes them 'Illegal'?
    A: Not in possession of the proper paperwork.
    ...
    So... if they had the right paperwork... all of these people who adamantly hate them being here would suddenly embrace them?
    Seriously.

    Exactly. Remove the illegality claims that people are hiding behind, and suddenly you see the truth.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    know1 wrote:
    Then why can't we just pass a law that makes them legal and makes it simple, quick and painless for anyone to become a citizen who wants to?

    Then they wouldn't be illegal anymore.

    great question....!!
  • puremagic
    puremagic Posts: 1,907
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Because, seriously... what is it exactly that makes them 'Illegal'?
    A: Not in possession of the proper paperwork.

    Yes, which allows people to threaten and exploit them.
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    So... if they had the right paperwork... all of these people who adamantly hate them being here would suddenly embrace them?
    Seriously.

    No, there will always be people that hate them. But at least they'll be able to tell these people to go f--k themselves because they are U.S. citizens.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    know1 wrote:
    Then why can't we just pass a law that makes them legal and makes it simple, quick and painless for anyone to become a citizen who wants to?

    Then they wouldn't be illegal anymore.

    As long as there is zero net cost to me, I'm all for it!
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    puremagic wrote:
    ...No, there will always be people that hate them. But at least they'll be able to tell these people to go f--k themselves because they are U.S. citizens.
    ...
    This is one of the great misunderstandings of Immigrants in this country. The truth is, many of them DO NOT want to become citizens. They are happy being Mexican and building a life for their families back home... in Mexico.
    ...
    Think of it this way...
    The American engineer who goes to work in Saudi Arabia for 5 years. Does he want to become a Saudi Citizen? Does he need to assimilate into Saudi culture?
    NO. He sends the money he makes back to the U.S. so his family back home can pay for the house and buy the stuff to make a living in the U.S.... NOT so his family can move to Saudi Arabia. He is in Saudi Arabia because of the work... not the culture. Same goes for many of the Mexican Immigrants here in America.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    jeffbr wrote:
    As long as there is zero net cost to me, I'm all for it!

    well, packing them up and sending them home ain't going to be free....
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    inmytree wrote:
    well, packing them up and sending them home ain't going to be free....

    Unfortunately, that's true. But I'll choose the one-shot, temporary, relatively low-expense option over the open-ended, recurring, expensive option.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    jeffbr wrote:
    Unfortunately, that's true. But I'll choose the one-shot, temporary, relatively low-expense option over the open-ended, recurring, expensive option.

    Yeah - 'cause they won't just turn around and come right back...
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    know1 wrote:
    Yeah - 'cause they won't just turn around and come right back...

    So your argument is to not just ignore the criminal behavior, but reward it for fear they'll continue doing it? Since they're going to engage in criminal behavior anyway, let's just not call it criminal behavior, and we'll all be better off. Doesn't really work for me, but if that's the will of the majority I guess I'm along for the ride.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    jeffbr wrote:
    So your argument is to not just ignore the criminal behavior, but reward it for fear they'll continue doing it? Since they're going to engage in criminal behavior anyway, let's just not call it criminal behavior, and we'll all be better off. Doesn't really work for me, but if that's the will of the majority I guess I'm along for the ride.

    for me, my argument is to decriminalized the behavior....allow those who want to work and live in the US to do so and allow them to join us in paying for the services we use...
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    jeffbr wrote:
    So your argument is to not just ignore the criminal behavior, but reward it for fear they'll continue doing it? Since they're going to engage in criminal behavior anyway, let's just not call it criminal behavior, and we'll all be better off. Doesn't really work for me, but if that's the will of the majority I guess I'm along for the ride.

    Sounds a lot like the argument for legalizing pot, huh?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    know1 wrote:
    Sounds a lot like the argument for legalizing pot, huh?

    Except the argument for legalizing pot (which I'm in favor of) results in a net cost benefit to me. The war on drugs (and the war on liberties) has had a tremendous cost which goes away with legalization.

    Adding 12 million new names to the social services infrastructure does exactly the opposite.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    jeffbr wrote:
    Except the argument for legalizing pot (which I'm in favor of) results in a net cost benefit to me. The war on drugs (and the war on liberties) has had a tremendous cost which goes away with legalization.

    Adding 12 million new names to the social services infrastructure does exactly the opposite.

    Then you're really more in favor of social services reform (cuts) than you are in opposition to amnesty? Because after all, the drain on the system isn't being caused primarily by immigrants.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    know1 wrote:
    Then you're really more in favor of social services reform (cuts) than you are in opposition to amnesty? Because after all, the drain on the system isn't being caused primarily by immigrants.

    Absolutely! As I've mentioned, I have no problem with immigration, per se. That's what made us great. My problem is our already overburdened social services. The legal side of immigration has allowed many brilliant and productive people to come here and contribute.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    jeffbr wrote:
    Absolutely! As I've mentioned, I have no problem with immigration, per se. That's what made us great. My problem is our already overburdened social services. The legal side of immigration has allowed many brilliant and productive people to come here and contribute.
    ...
    Here's a thought...
    If a guy comes in from Mexico and is treated using County Services... send the Bill to Mexico. If they don't pay... deduct the total of the bill from the Foriegn aid we send over there to line the pockets of Mexican Politicians and payback the County. I mean, what... we give Mexico several hundred million dollars from taxpayers already, right? Think of it as that portion of out foriegn aid to them that aids the people of Mexico... specifically the guy that is treated in the U.S.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    know1 wrote:
    Then you're really more in favor of social services reform (cuts) than you are in opposition to amnesty? Because after all, the drain on the system isn't being caused primarily by immigrants.

    refugees also add to the social services drain. a refugee receives free housing and income. cut out the 12 million illegals and we can all have free healthcare.

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