My comments about Russia are still valid BTW. They initiated the conflict and political disintegration in this area. Mind you, I could have had a slash at Germany and France as well, both nations with abysmal track records with war, foreign interference (Nigeria, anyone ?) and occupation by force ( still happening in New Caledonia), not to mention setting off nukes in other people's back yards but I couldn't be stuffed.
so you know nothing of the British presence in the subcontinent then? of their desire to use afghanistan as a buffer against the russian advancement into the region? you're just gonna lay the blame for the ' political disintegration' of this area at the feet of the russians, with total disregard that the Brits were doing the exact same thing, is that it?
How about I re-phrase it to "resident aliens", will that make you happier ??
Little kids grow into adolescenets, and start jostling for any advantage they can get, then they will form cliques or tribes. The definitions of those tribes will be based on what works for them. Tribal boundaries are defined and enforced by shared customs and rituals. While the little kiddies from different races who grew up together continue to share these things, they will continue to belong to the same tribes. If that sharing stops, then they will no longer belong to the same tribe. The same thing happens wiht a bunch of kids from the same culture who grow up. Once upon a time you were mates with Little Johnny from next door, but then he joined the emo tribe, and now you don't see him anymore.
All of which is kinda interesting, none of which is relevant. I was commenting on the likelihood of Afghani's tolerating outsiders, but you seem to have turned this around to be about my attitudes toward race, which I gotta tell you, I do not appreciate.
BTW, none of this is relevant to the fact that the story at the top of the thread is still a beat-up and a deliberate distortion of the truth, and I notice you have conveniently avoided responding to my comments on the similarity bewtween this BS and Bush's.
Edited cos I left out half the tribal stuff initially cos I was too lazy to put it in, then changed my mind
you're right lucy its not relevent. but you're wrong, i wasn't trying to point out your supposed racist attitudes. nor was i accusing you of having any. i just found your 'white folks' an interesting turn of phrase. i apologise if i offended you.
my view of racism as a social construct and the racialisation of ethnicity still stand. bit i suspect that's an entirely different thread. before i go, i'd just like to share a little anecdote from last year in regards to how children may develop bigoted views towards 'others' as they grow older.
i was at a rugby league game with my ex and our two youngest children(aged 7 & 9). our children were playing happily with some indigenous children, laughing and carrying on as kids are wont to do. anyway my ex leans over to me and says, 'isn't it funny how they don't even care that those kids are aboriginal.' i looked at him, rather incredulously i might add and said, 'why would it matter to them. kids dont care about shit like that.' i told him it was the adults around children that form racial attitudes for children, not the children themselves.' it is in this way that racism is a social construct. kids aren't born racist. they are conditioned to become so.
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FINALLY!!!!!! I just heard on the news that David will be facing the "military court" tomorrow and could be released immediately!!
Of course I can't find much else on the internet about it as usual, but there was this story, although it seems very different to what was just on Australian television.
I saw an episode of Insight on SBS a few weeks ago where Michael Mori said he's had discussions with David Hicks, and it's definitely an option they'll explore.
I saw an episode of Insight on SBS a few weeks ago where Michael Mori said he's had discussions with David Hicks, and it's definitely an option they'll explore.
Ah thanks Hinny! When I went hunting just after the 6pm News there was nothing on the net.
I'm sure I heard them say that they are thinking that David will plead guilty to a lesser charge in order to ensure his immediate release.
How horrific if that is actually the case and he does plead guilty even if he isn't just to escape that hell hole?
I guess the thing I find so hard to understand is that we will probably never know now whether he really is guilty or not guilty. Only that he has been completely violated by both the Australian and American governments.
it's now a few hours before david hicks will be bought before the tribunal. i just heard on the late news he will be allowed a meeting with his father and his sister. there will be physical contact allowed. he will be dressed in a suit but will be shackled to the floor during the 'legal' proceedings.
i agree with you jeanie. for anyone to have to plead guilty irrespective of whether they are or not, just to gain frreedom is abhorrant.
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it's now a few hours before david hicks will be bought before the tribunal. i just heard on the late news he will be allowed a meeting with his father and his sister. there will be physical contact allowed. he will be dressed in a suit but will be shackled to the floor during the 'legal' proceedings.
i agree with you jeanie. for anyone to have to plead guilty irrespective of whether they are or not, just to gain frreedom is abhorrant.
This whole situation with David Hicks has been abhorrant from the first, I just hope that he can now have a speedy, fair process and that justice is served.
Although I strongly doubt, given just how badly it has been denied him, that anything that happens from here on in will ever make up for the complete lack of justice or human rights.
Guess we don't have long to wait now to see some action anyway.
david hicks has faced the preliminary tribunal. two of his lawyers have been barred from representing him. reports say he seemed in good physical health. he has put on weight. his hair has grown long. he was wearing a tan prison suit. david declined to enter a plea. he told the commission that he may have trouble being understoood as he spoke australian english.
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david hicks has faced the preliminary tribunal. two of his lawyers have been barred from representing him. reports say he seemed in good physical health. he has put on weight. his hair has grown long. he wa swearing a tan prison suit.
Bloody Alex Downer!!! :mad: I've had to listen to him crap on about Australians having to "abide by the juristiction they find themselves in" all morning!
Well that's all very fine Alex, but I think there may have been a bit of goal post moving in this case!! They didn't even have the military tribunal when he was arrested!!!
That bloody man must think the rest of us are as dumb as he sounds!!! :mad:
He has entered no plea and has been returned to prison for 3 months until the tribunal is convened for him again.
John Howard has said that an arrangement is in place with the US that any remaining term to be imposed on David will be served in Australia.
david just plead guilty to the charge of supplying material support to terrorism. in exchange for a lighter sentence that will be served in an australian jail.
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david just plead guilty to the charge of supplying material support to terrorism. in exchange for a lighter sentence that will be served in an australian jail.
This is exactly what I thought would happen. :(
There is no way that this hasn't been orchestrated. Given that they removed 2/3rds of his legal team. I'm quite sure they've now told him plead guilty and we'll let you go home to serve out your sentence or we will fight you for years and years and years.
There is no way that this hasn't been orchestrated. Given that they removed 2/3rds of his legal team. I'm quite sure they've now told him plead guilty and we'll let you go home to serve out your sentence or we will fight you for years and years and years.
We will never know if he is guilty or not.
They need to send him home immediately.
Maybe once he gets back to Australia it will be like the four britons who were released without charge when they arrived back in the UK after being held for nearly three years at Guantanamo Bay.
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so you know nothing of the British presence in the subcontinent then? of their desire to use afghanistan as a buffer against the russian advancement into the region? you're just gonna lay the blame for the ' political disintegration' of this area at the feet of the russians, with total disregard that the Brits were doing the exact same thing, is that it?
you're right lucy its not relevent. but you're wrong, i wasn't trying to point out your supposed racist attitudes. nor was i accusing you of having any. i just found your 'white folks' an interesting turn of phrase. i apologise if i offended you.
my view of racism as a social construct and the racialisation of ethnicity still stand. bit i suspect that's an entirely different thread. before i go, i'd just like to share a little anecdote from last year in regards to how children may develop bigoted views towards 'others' as they grow older.
i was at a rugby league game with my ex and our two youngest children(aged 7 & 9). our children were playing happily with some indigenous children, laughing and carrying on as kids are wont to do. anyway my ex leans over to me and says, 'isn't it funny how they don't even care that those kids are aboriginal.' i looked at him, rather incredulously i might add and said, 'why would it matter to them. kids dont care about shit like that.' i told him it was the adults around children that form racial attitudes for children, not the children themselves.' it is in this way that racism is a social construct. kids aren't born racist. they are conditioned to become so.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Of course I can't find much else on the internet about it as usual, but there was this story, although it seems very different to what was just on Australian television.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/guantanamo/story/0,,2043009,00.html
Regardless, looks like David will at least, finally, be tried as opposed to this highly offensive limbo that he has been in.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
I saw an episode of Insight on SBS a few weeks ago where Michael Mori said he's had discussions with David Hicks, and it's definitely an option they'll explore.
Ah thanks Hinny! When I went hunting just after the 6pm News there was nothing on the net.
I'm sure I heard them say that they are thinking that David will plead guilty to a lesser charge in order to ensure his immediate release.
How horrific if that is actually the case and he does plead guilty even if he isn't just to escape that hell hole?
I guess the thing I find so hard to understand is that we will probably never know now whether he really is guilty or not guilty. Only that he has been completely violated by both the Australian and American governments.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
i agree with you jeanie. for anyone to have to plead guilty irrespective of whether they are or not, just to gain frreedom is abhorrant.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
This whole situation with David Hicks has been abhorrant from the first, I just hope that he can now have a speedy, fair process and that justice is served.
Although I strongly doubt, given just how badly it has been denied him, that anything that happens from here on in will ever make up for the complete lack of justice or human rights.
Guess we don't have long to wait now to see some action anyway.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Bloody Alex Downer!!! :mad: I've had to listen to him crap on about Australians having to "abide by the juristiction they find themselves in" all morning!
Well that's all very fine Alex, but I think there may have been a bit of goal post moving in this case!! They didn't even have the military tribunal when he was arrested!!!
That bloody man must think the rest of us are as dumb as he sounds!!! :mad:
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
John Howard has said that an arrangement is in place with the US that any remaining term to be imposed on David will be served in Australia.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200703/s1882176.htm
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
This is exactly what I thought would happen. :(
There is no way that this hasn't been orchestrated. Given that they removed 2/3rds of his legal team. I'm quite sure they've now told him plead guilty and we'll let you go home to serve out your sentence or we will fight you for years and years and years.
We will never know if he is guilty or not.
They need to send him home immediately.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Maybe once he gets back to Australia it will be like the four britons who were released without charge when they arrived back in the UK after being held for nearly three years at Guantanamo Bay.