Free-will simplified: The Point of Power

angelica

gue_barium wrote:

And there is psychobabble.

Let me ask it another way.

Do you consider yourself a genius?

No. I've taken IQ tests and I don't come up as "genius" at all. I did skip a grade in school, and was labelled with all kinds of big "potential" that I was unable to live up to, in my underachieving world.

I've been diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, which is connected with creative genius, as they say. Tapping into the further reaches (than "normal") for inspiration, it seems.

I knew that if I could learn to regularly tap the "realms" I tapped in bi-polar illness, if I could learn to do it in health, it would be awesome.

I read in a book once, that hypo mania, one of the higher states of bi-polar disorder is a state similar to the experience of self-actualized people--being in touch with cosmic consciousness.

Again, to me, the bottom line is that we are all channels of forces. The channel is not the Source.

Ahnimus

gue, no one here is likely to change my point of view on this matter. I've read the best arguments from the best philosophers in the field of consciousness. They come up short.

Ahnimus

angelica wrote:

No. I've taken IQ tests and I don't come up as "genius" at all.

I do.... sometimes.

gue_barium

Ahnimus wrote:

gue, no one here is likely to change my point of view on this matter. I've read the best arguments from the best philosophers in the field of consciousness. They come up short.

I'm not here to change your point of view. Your point of view is your own, whether you believe it or not.

angelica

Ahnimus wrote:

I do.... sometimes.

It looks like you and I are agreeing on one thing.......that our individuality is an illusion--a box, so to speak. I see that where we direct consciousness is our point of free will. And really, we're all just Reality/God manifesting through various boxes complete with the programmed scripts and plays we live out and think are "real". all the while, we are merely consciousness, becoming conscious of itself.

gue_barium

angelica wrote:

No. I've taken IQ tests and I don't come up as "genius" at all. I did skip a grade in school, and was labelled with all kinds of big "potential" that I was unable to live up to, in my underachieving world.

I've been diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, which is connected with creative genius, as they say. Tapping into the further reaches (than "normal") for inspiration, it seems.

I knew that if I could learn to regularly tap the "realms" I tapped in bi-polar illness, if I could learn to do it in health, it would be awesome.

I read in a book once, that hypo mania, one of the higher states of bi-polar disorder is a state similar to the experience of self-actualized people--being in touch with cosmic consciousness.

Again, to me, the bottom line is that we are all channels of forces. The channel is not the Source.

Why do you yourself suppose "self-actualized" people are in touch with "cosmic consciousness".
I'm a self-actualized. I know who I am. I like the stars and all...but, you know...cosmic consciousness?

gue_barium

angelica wrote:

It looks like you and I are agreeing on one thing.......that our individuality is an illusion--a box, so to speak. I see that where we direct consciousness is our point of free will. And really, we're all just Reality/God manifesting through various boxes complete with the programmed scripts and plays we live out and think are "real". all the while, we are merely consciousness, becoming conscious of itself.

How do recognize yourself as "human"?

gue_barium

Ahnimus wrote:

I do.... sometimes.

Do you call Einstein a genius? And if "yes", why?

angelica

gue_barium wrote:

Why do you yourself suppose "self-actualized" people are in touch with "cosmic consciousness".
I'm a self-actualized. I know who I am. I like the stars and all...but, you know...cosmic consciousness?

It's a way a certain school of thought looked at the same phenomena, and the same famous people through history as Abraham Maslow did with his "self-actualization grouping. It's also called being in "flow", being attuned to the underlying currents of life.

angelica

gue_barium wrote:

How do recognize yourself as "human"?

I'm not sure what you mean.

gue_barium

angelica wrote:

It's a way a certain school of thought looked at the same phenomena, and the same famous people through history as Abraham Maslow did with his "self-actualization grouping. It's also called being in "flow", being attuned to the underlying currents of life.

The underlying currents of life being?

human?

angelica

gue_barium wrote:

The underlying currents of life being?

human?

It's experienced through one's humanness, yes.

gue_barium

angelica wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean.

Where does language take a role in the formation of "human"?

gue_barium

angelica wrote:

It's experienced through one's humanness, yes.

Do you assume to know that I know you are human?

I know that sounds absurd, but unless I know you aren't going to kill me, or even worse...how do I know you recognize yourself as human?

angelica

gue_barium wrote:

Where does language take a role in the formation of "human"?

I'm only vaguely aware of that stuff. But it's a big deal. It is language that we mold our concepts with and around. And we get "fixed" into our ideas of our "self" and individuality by attaching ourselves to words, which represent the truths that in contrast lead to our actual truth and freedom.

Like Lacan put forth, and as is symbolized in the tarot as well, words and the energy of "the father" (or authority/societal institutions) indoctrinated us away from our pure energy inside--our base states of awareness, into the illusory concepts of the world "out there", as though it were separate from us. When really, it all actually takes place "within" our minds subjectively, beyond time and space, in the realm of "BEing". The words/concepts and the false illusions stem from the point of pure consciousness that we actually are within.

edit: oh the "father" indoctinated us away from ourselves with language, which gave us the false impression of cause and effect, and linearity, which is opposed to the truth of BEing.

angelica

gue_barium wrote:

Do you assume to know that I know you are human?

I know that sounds absurd, but unless I know you aren't going to kill me, or even worse...how do I know you recognize yourself as human?

I can't assume anything about you.

I can undersand if you don't know I recognize myself as human.

gue_barium

angelica wrote:

I'm only vaguely aware of that stuff. But it's a big deal. It is language that we mold our concepts with and around. And we get "fixed" into our ideas of our "self" and individuality by attaching ourselves to words, which represent the truths that in contrast lead to our actual truth and freedom.

Like Lacan put forth, and as is symbolized in the tarot as well, words and the energy of "the father" (or authority/societal institutions) indoctrinated us away from our pure energy inside--our base states of awareness, into the illusory concepts of the world "out there", as though it were separate from us. When really, it all actually takes place "within" our minds subjectively, beyond time and space, in the realm of "BEing". The words/concepts and the false illusions stem from the point of pure consciousness that we actually are within.

What of the "sensual" state of humanity? Why so invariably painful and war-mongering?

gue_barium

gue_barium wrote:

What of the "sensual" state of humanity? Why so invariably painful and war-mongering?

Q: Dude, you're asking way too many questions.
A: I suppose I am.
Q: I think you could probably call it a night.
A: Okay, boss.

angelica

gue_barium wrote:

What of the "sensual" state of humanity? Why so invariably painful and war-mongering?

At this point, we believe in the separation and we think there is a difference from inside us and outside us--we believe what we became attached to in language--what we identified with, instead of continuing to understand ourselves as consciousness having these experiences. And we project our own shadows from within outside of us. And we believe these illusions we project to be real. We face our worst nightmares outside of us.

That's why as we segue to the spirit of humanity from the ego of humanity in terms of consciousness, we will start to open to the idea that the evil we are seeing outside is our own unresolved darkness inside.

This is why I encourage people to give up their addictions and imbalances, and get on the evolutionary track. The imbalances we hold block us from resolving the dichotomy of self vs. other.

The "crazy" part of it all...what we are so afraid of facing within are the illusions we've accumulated within. The only thing to fear truly is the fear itself. As we start to face and demystify the illusions we were taught, we realize the problem is misperception, and it's from within, and it has nothing at all to do with the illusions we project into the world.

gue_barium

angelica wrote:

I can't assume anything about you.

I can undersand if you don't know I recognize myself as human.

Lol. That sounds kind of funny.

I know you recognize yourself as human. The essence of determinism is that you cannot escape that fact. That's such a tiny piece of the puzzle, though. To me.