Unprecedented Muslim call for peace with Christians

soulsinging

NMyTree wrote:

History only counts up till World War 2 and the Holocaust.

yeah, it stopped after that too. i love the boner conservative americans get from the thought of ww2. it's like nothing america did before or after that decade happened at all or is of any relevance. yet the second a european says anything about america they're tripping over themselves to point out how europeans would all be speaking german if not for us.

Heineken Helen

jlew24asu wrote:

no christians dont use force. did they 1000 years ago? yes.

I was always taught to respect other religions. how did I get so lucky?

what is the penalty for not being a christian? nothing

what is the penalty for being a non believer in some muslim countries. death.


feel free to act like an adult and quit the childish LOL's at anytime

Please feel free to read some Irish history. This is NOT 1000 years ago. When do you think the troubles in the north 'ended'? the omagh bomb was only in 98 and there's been lotsa violence since. 1000 years ago? :rolleyes: I wish!

There was SEVERE penalties for a long time in Ireland for not being protestant.

NMyTree

jlew24asu wrote:

thats a fact, christians dont use force.

maybe you don't know the definition of "fact".

jlew24asu

soulsinging wrote:

feel free to read like an adult and point to me where 810 said christians don't use force. the laughter was inspired by an entirely different statement. one i notice that you keep ignoring as i've pointed it out several times and you ignore it becos you know you can't refute it i assume.

I misunderstood. I apologize.

soulsinging

jlew24asu wrote:

I'm not a righty. and you're correct. maybe I did misunderstand. I was only reading 810s reply. I apologize

fair enough. that was the source of the laughter. as i said, christianity's violence has waned in the west at least, but to say they are not still forcing their beliefs in many respects is laughable. their methods are just more subtle and refined than those of radical islam at the moment. give iran 100 years... they'll catch up

chopitdown

NMyTree wrote:

You didn't read what I intially wrote. You are assuming. It was you who took this discussion in this direction.

Hmmmm.....a gay man was just recently beaten to a pulp, by Jesus loving thugs; because he was a homosexual. It was all over the news.

Now do your own research and read. You can't possibly be an honest man if you can't acknowledge that Christians do push their religion on others, through several different methods; which does not exclude violence.

You could make the argument that as soon as you're trying to promote your opinion and getting someone to change you are using force. The biggest thing that I see is that even with the extremes of people who call themselves Christians (phelps, abortion murderers etc...) you won't see any central leader of Christianity endorsing it. Phelps has what 70 people in the country that agree with him?
From 1989-2004 there were 24 abortion doctors murdered with the most recent one in 2000. There is no excuse for that and it happens but again where is the endorsement of these activities by Christian leaders? You are starting to see more muslims take a stand but you still have powerful clerics who are calling for violence and preaching the hate.

jlew24asu

NMyTree wrote:

maybe you don't know the definition of "fact".

I don't see christians "forcing" anything. like you mentioned they can however be manipulative and brainwashing. much like other religions. but death or injury is extremely rare and compared to islam its a joke

Heineken Helen

chopitdown wrote:

You could make the argument that as soon as you're trying to promote your opinion and getting someone to change you are using force. The biggest thing that I see is that even with the extremes of people who call themselves Christians (phelps, abortion murderers etc...) you won't see any central leader of Christianity endorsing it. Phelps has what 70 people in the country that agree with him?
From 1989-2004 there were 24 abortion doctors murdered with the most recent one in 2000. There is no excuse for that and it happens but again where is the endorsement of these activities by Christian leaders? You are starting to see more muslims take a stand but you still have powerful clerics who are calling for violence and preaching the hate.

Three words: reverand Ian Paisley :rolleyes: that is before he and Martin McGuinness became best friends.

jlew24asu

Heineken Helen wrote:

Please feel free to read some Irish history. This is NOT 1000 years ago. When do you think the troubles in the north 'ended'? the omagh bomb was only in 98 and there's been lotsa violence since. 1000 years ago? :rolleyes: I wish!

There was SEVERE penalties for a long time in Ireland for not being protestant.

pffffft we all know you Irish are nuts anyway.

(i'm half Irish )

Kann

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Why does Jlew pick so many losing arguments and cling to them like he can win them?

Well to be fair he is alone in defending the argument
And the original poster said something about forcing the beliefs, not using force. Forcing can be using coercition, manipulation and/or medias, money etc. Religion + not remembering we are all humans = bad.
And to the first post, Babylon being in Iraq this good event won't let you visit that place before a long long time.

Heineken Helen

jlew24asu wrote:

I don't see christians "forcing" anything. like you mentioned they can however be manipulative and brainwashing. much like other religions. but death or injury is extremely rare and compared to islam its a joke

well then you're either not reading or choosing to ignore all the posts saying otherwise

Heineken Helen

jlew24asu wrote:

pffffft we all know you Irish are nuts anyway.

(i'm half Irish )

Should I take that reply as:

'oh actually yes Helen you're all right and I was wrong'? since you don't address the points in it

chopitdown

Heineken Helen wrote:

Three words: reverand Ian Paisley :rolleyes: that is before he and Martin McGuinness became best friends.

i should have left the US Christian leaders in there as the qualifier.

NMyTree

chopitdown wrote:

You could make the argument that as soon as you're trying to promote your opinion and getting someone to change you are using force. The biggest thing that I see is that even with the extremes of people who call themselves Christians (phelps, abortion murderers etc...) you won't see any central leader of Christianity endorsing it. Phelps has what 70 people in the country that agree with him?
From 1989-2004 there were 24 abortion doctors murdered with the most recent one in 2000. There is no excuse for that and it happens but again where is the endorsement of these activities by Christian leaders? You are starting to see more muslims take a stand but you still have powerful clerics who are calling for violence and preaching the hate.

Absolutely chopitdown, I for the most part agree.

But that was not what I intially said.

My comments were regarding religion, acceptance, tolerance and the essence and defintion of faith and the contradiction in behavior of people of all religions.

jlew24asu

Heineken Helen wrote:

Should I take that reply as:

'oh actually yes Helen you're all right and I was wrong'? since you don't address the points in it

not really. maybe this should be talked about in a comparative sense. Christianity's use of "force" (whatever that may be) compared to Islam. and/or the consequences of being a non believer.

but then again lets not. this should be a positive thread of progress. I fucked it up by misunderstanding someones comment. I'm sorry.

Heineken Helen

jlew24asu wrote:

not really. maybe this should be talked about in a comparative sense. Christianity's use of "force" (whatever that may be) compared to Islam. and/or the consequences of being a non believer.

but then again lets not. this should be a positive thread of progress. I fucked it up by misunderstanding someones comment. I'm sorry.

That's ok... but take it from me what the 'christians' did to us stings JUST as deep as whatever the muslims 'do' to you!

Collin

chopitdown wrote:

You could make the argument that as soon as you're trying to promote your opinion and getting someone to change you are using force. The biggest thing that I see is that even with the extremes of people who call themselves Christians (phelps, abortion murderers etc...) you won't see any central leader of Christianity endorsing it. Phelps has what 70 people in the country that agree with him?
From 1989-2004 there were 24 abortion doctors murdered with the most recent one in 2000. There is no excuse for that and it happens but again where is the endorsement of these activities by Christian leaders? You are starting to see more muslims take a stand but you still have powerful clerics who are calling for violence and preaching the hate.

Ah yes, the "real" Christians argument. Apply it to Muslims as well.

Islam does not promote hatred. People use religion as a tool to spread their hatred and whether they really believe in it or not is more or less irrelevant.

chopitdown

Collin wrote:

Ah yes, the "real" Christians argument. Apply it to Muslims as well.

Islam does not promote hatred. People use religion as a tool to spread their hatred and whether they really believe in it or not is more or less irrelevant.

i did, which is why i said more muslims are now condemning the actions.

Collin

chopitdown wrote:

i did, which is why i said more muslims are now condemning the actions.

But do you think all the ones that use violence are not real muslims? How many times do you refer to Muslim terrorists as "people who call themselves muslims".

chopitdown

Collin wrote:

But do you think all the ones that use violence are not real muslims? How many times do you refer to Muslim terrorists as "people who call themselves muslims".

prob not as many times as I would say christianity but that is due somewhat to my much better understanding and study of Christianity. But Muhammed was a violent person and he used violence for change, that can't be disputed. Which is prob the reason I wouldn't say people who call themselves muslims and rather would say muslim terrorists. The key figure in their religion used those tactics. Jesus, the key figure in christianity, didn't use the tactics that phelps, abortion murders etc use. So it's much easier to say make the separation, in my opinion. That being said, i'm glad this statement (from the scholars who are muslim ) was made and we do need to learn to live together. But there are some underlying issues that will prob always prevent that from happening fully.

even flow?

chopitdown wrote:

But there are some underlying issues that will prob always prevent that from happening fully.

History!

Collin

chopitdown wrote:

prob not as many times as I would say christianity but that is due somewhat to my much better understanding and study of Christianity. But Muhammed was a violent person and he used violence for change, that can't be disputed. Which is prob the reason I wouldn't say people who call themselves muslims and rather would say muslim terrorists. The key figure in their religion used those tactics. Jesus, the key figure in christianity, didn't use the tactics that phelps, abortion murders etc use. So it's much easier to say make the separation, in my opinion. That being said, i'm glad this statement (from the scholars who are muslim ) was made and we do need to learn to live together. But there are some underlying issues that will prob always prevent that from happening fully.

I see your point but I can't say I see it that way. Well except for this part:

That being said, i'm glad this statement (from the scholars who are muslim ) was made and we do need to learn to live together. But there are some underlying issues that will prob always prevent that from happening fully

chopitdown

Collin wrote:

I see your point but I can't say I see it that way. Well except for this part:

i can live with that.

Collin wrote:

That being said, i'm glad this statement (from the scholars who are muslim ) was made and we do need to learn to live together. But there are some underlying issues that will prob always prevent that from happening fully