I bet you didn't know this.....

jlew24asu

Collin wrote:

Well, it depends on America's motives. If they want to help out, of course, why not?

edit: I think the US shouldn't do this alone by the way, it's more of a UN mission, isn't it.

lets pretend their motives with 100% based on helping out the people and removing genocidal dictators. I believe there would be many people lining up screaming about US imperialism and how we shouldnt be policing the world. it just sucks that its damned if we do damned if we dont.

UN?? I agree but its very very clear they arent capable of doing anything militarily without US involvement. which sucks.

Collin

jlew24asu wrote:

lets pretend their motives with 100% based on helping out the people and removing genocidal dictators. I believe there would be many people lining up screaming about US imperialism and how we shouldnt be policing the world. it just sucks that its damned if we do damned if we dont.

That's probably true. But when you look at that article you posted in the other thread (935? false statements about Iraq) it's really not so hard to believe people don't trust the motives of their government anymore.

UN?? I agree but its very very clear they arent capable of doing anything militarily without US involvement. which sucks.

Ah yes, that does indeed suck.

jlew24asu

Collin wrote:

That's probably true. But when you look at that article you posted in the other thread (935? false statements about Iraq) it's really not so hard to believe people don't trust the motives of their government anymore.

thats why I said pretend but I would like to think some of our motives are right, even if they are mixed in with wrong ones.

polaris

jlew24asu wrote:

hmmm please elaborate.

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=269574&page=4&highlight=africa

post #53

jlew24asu

polaris wrote:

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=269574&page=4&highlight=africa

post #53

so your another one who thinks world bank, IMF, and united states are all one in the same? commy made up a nice number of 90%...how bout you? lets say 91% ?

polaris

jlew24asu wrote:

so your another one who thinks world bank, IMF, and united states are all one in the same? commy made up a nice number of 90%...how bout you? lets say 91% ?

let's see John Bolton gets sent to head the World Bank ... former member of PNAC ... member of AEI (neocon think tank) ...

anyways - you can have the last word as you see fit ... i don't really think you are interested in hearing views that hurts your view of america and the corporations that run it ...

jlew24asu

polaris wrote:

let's see John Bolton gets sent to head the World Bank ... former member of PNAC ... member of AEI (neocon think tank) ...

anyways - you can have the last word as you see fit ... i don't really think you are interested in hearing views that hurts your view of america and the corporations that run it ...

actually Robert Zoellick heads the bank.

but really, please tell me how the genocide happening in the congo is the fault of america?

polaris

jlew24asu wrote:

actually Robert Zoellick heads the bank.

but really, please tell me how the genocide happening in the congo is the fault of america?

uhhh ... yeah cuz bolton had to resign for improperly promoting his gf ...

http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archives/2006/09/hightech_genoci.html

slightofjeff

edit: I think the US shouldn't do this alone by the way, it's more of a UN mission, isn't it.

It sure is. In fact, the UN is there RIGHT NOW. They are part of the reason the Congo is so fucked up. Because the UN is fucked up. And pretty much powerless. Their peacekeepers are doing a pretty shitty job of keeping the peace.

Hell, the situation in IRAQ is better than the Congo, judging by these numbers. Even at its worst, I can't find estimates that showed 45,000 Iraqis dying PER DAY.

I'd assume it's because the U.S. military actually has some teeth to it.

jlew24asu

polaris wrote:

uhhh ... yeah cuz bolton had to resign for improperly promoting his gf ...

http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archives/2006/09/hightech_genoci.html

he should probably be stoned to death for it.

so anyway, how is america responsible for the genocide in congo?

polaris

jlew24asu wrote:

he should probably be stoned to death for it.

so anyway, how is america responsible for the genocide in congo?

http://congovoices.blogspot.com/

The rebels are able to carry out their heinous activities with the help of the west. The weapons they use mainly come from Britain and the US. Their officers were trained in the west. The minerals they extort from the Congolese people are sold to multinational corporations such as Bechtel Inc (San Francisco), Cabot (Boston), American Mineral Fields, DeBeers, and Barrick Gold. According to Investigative Journalist Keith Snow, former president George H.W. Bush was a paid advisor for Barrick Gold.

*******

do you honestly not see the complicity in this?

jlew24asu

polaris wrote:

http://congovoices.blogspot.com/

The rebels are able to carry out their heinous activities with the help of the west. The weapons they use mainly come from Britain and the US. Their officers were trained in the west. The minerals they extort from the Congolese people are sold to multinational corporations such as Bechtel Inc (San Francisco), Cabot (Boston), American Mineral Fields, DeBeers, and Barrick Gold. According to Investigative Journalist Keith Snow, former president George H.W. Bush was a paid advisor for Barrick Gold.

*******

do you honestly not see the complicity in this?

so AfriQueen posts a blog and you take this as proof?

I'm not saying the US is innocent but you're going to have to do better then that.

CaterinaA

polaris wrote:

uhhh ... yeah cuz bolton had to resign for improperly promoting his gf ...

http://www.worldproutassembly.org/archives/2006/09/hightech_genoci.html

First of all, happy New Year Lien! and I'm very sorry for Justine's loss the other day...

James Wolfensohn was the WB President that had to resign the girlfriend affair. Bolton was the US ambassador at the UN. IMF's President is always from Europe, and right now is from France, Dominique Strauss-Kahn.

Just a little clarification, you know so you guys can insult/defend/discuss the right people

polaris

CaterinaA wrote:

First of all, happy New Year Lien! and I'm very sorry for Justine's loss the other day...

James Wolfensohn was the WB President that had to resign the girlfriend affair. Bolton was the US ambassador at the UN. IMF's President is always from Europe, and right now is from France, Dominique Strauss-Kahn.

Just a little clarification, you know so you guys can insult/defend/discuss the right people

ooops ... wolfowitz was the guy i meant ... same ilk tho ... thanks for the correction ...

too bad james couldn't put up a better fight ...

polaris

jlew24asu wrote:

so AfriQueen posts a blog and you take this as proof?

I'm not saying the US is innocent but you're going to have to do better then that.

uhhh ... there is a whole list of suggested readings on the side bar ... feel free to read them ...

CaterinaA

polaris wrote:

ooops ... wolfowitz was the guy i meant ... same ilk tho ... thanks for the correction ...

too bad james couldn't put up a better fight ...

Sorry for the off-topic, but yeah I felt bad for James today, he played incredible tennis, yet ended with his hands empty.

tybird

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

If the middle east was dry on oil, Iraq would in fact be the Congo... or the next largest resource.

Nigeria and Chad would be ahead of Congo on that list....more oil in both places and infrastructure already in place. Most of what infrastructure existed in Congo has probably fallen into ruin during the last decade.

The Congo's problems dated back to when it was a private holding of King Leopold II of Belgium. It was not a Belgian colony. The country belonged lock, stock and barrel to the king. Some of the colonial practices carried out under Leopold's guidance made the French and Germans look humanitarians in their colonial practices.

Congo's current "war" problem is simply not an internal struggle. The most serious problems are due to spillage from Rwanda's racial/tribal conflicts.

During the last half of the Cold War, Congo (Zaire) was a client state to the U.S. That's when their soldiers received U.S. arms and training. With the end of the Cold War, we weren't so hip on propping up Mobuto Sese Seko. He was overthrown, and its been a clusterfuck ever since.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

jlew24asu wrote:

so AfriQueen posts a blog and you take this as proof?

I'm not saying the US is innocent but you're going to have to do better then that.

Honestly just looking at half the stuff you type...

If my govt did something wrong, I'd call them on it (and I have many times)

I have no idea what you are... (actually I do), but taking pretty much anything you say at face value completely defies all common sense.

Honestly if you don't work for the govt to plant disinformation on the internet on purpose....then nobody else does.

jlew24asu

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Honestly just looking at half the stuff you type...

If my govt did something wrong, I'd call them on it (and I have many times)

I have no idea what you are... (actually I do), but taking pretty much anything you say at face value completely defies all common sense.

Honestly if you don't work for the govt to plant disinformation on the internet on purpose....then nobody else does.

I have said several times in this thread that the US is not innocent in this matter. sorry I didnt take a random blog by a random person and the say all do all. if you dont like what I say then put me on ignore and stop replying to my posts.

you prove to people daily why you are the least respected person here. I know that must not sit well with you

Collin

slightofjeff wrote:

It sure is. In fact, the UN is there RIGHT NOW. They are part of the reason the Congo is so fucked up. Because the UN is fucked up. And pretty much powerless. Their peacekeepers are doing a pretty shitty job of keeping the peace.

Hell, the situation in IRAQ is better than the Congo, judging by these numbers. Even at its worst, I can't find estimates that showed 45,000 Iraqis dying PER DAY.

I'd assume it's because the U.S. military actually has some teeth to it.

The US should never have been in Iraq. One of the main reasons, and I do same 'one' because there are other reasons as well, that the UN is 'fucked up' is because of the United States. The US has made a mockery out of the UN, it has repeatedly egocentrically put its own interests first.

Also man, it's 45.000 death per month.