Iraq - Stay the course or Come home now?

Cosmo

jlew24asu wrote:

dude you make good points but most you sink to calling everyone idiots for using phrases that are easy to say for sake of discussion. so thank you for gracing us with your presence. we are all so much wiser now.

and I dont think anyone beileves deal or no deal is a skill game. its entertainment for some. chill

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Because it is true... 'Stay The Course' and 'Cut and Run' are cute little catch phrases that dumbs it down so even an idiot can figure it out. You shoot for the D, F end of the Bell Curve and you get idiotic little phrases.
And how many times is that presented to us as the only possibilities? We hear it all the time coming from the White House... regurgitated nightly on cable infotainment television... all shooting for the D, F, end of the curve. People who get their politics from cable T.V. are idiots. Idiots because there is no fucking way you can get all of the true facts from 2 minute segments, sandwiched between Natalie Hollaway and Jennifer Aniston stories.
Iraq is an extremely complicated problem that our actions have made even more complex. I am sure there atre people working one it, but we really don't know what the REAL objectives of this administration are. Do they even WANT us to ever leave that fucking shithole? I greatly doubt it.

jlew24asu

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

What if we started to pull out a small number of troops at predetermined times so the Iraqi police and officials would have to react and do something? I mean, why would you want to fight your own battles when someone comes along and says they'll do it for you?

not a bad idea. I think your idea can be accomplished without sending them home. coalition forces can play a support role. I think thats happening, but I dontknow, i've never beenthere

Vedderlution_Baby

jlew24asu wrote:

not a bad idea. I think your idea can be accomplished without sending them home. coalition forces can play a support role. I think thats happening, but I dontknow, i've never beenthere

Yea but the problem with them playing a supportive role is that they may be leaned on too heavily. After awhile it may be back to the way it was before. If you take the soldiers out...then they can't be used as much. (I think that makes sense. I may not be explaining as effectively as I think I am though)

Vedderlution_Baby

jlew24asu wrote:

not a bad idea. I think your idea can be accomplished without sending them home. coalition forces can play a support role. I think thats happening, but I dontknow, i've never beenthere

Yea but the problem with them playing a supportive role is that they may be leaned on too heavily. After awhile it may be back to the way it was before. If you take the soldiers out...then they can't be used as much. (I think that makes sense. I may not be explaining as effectively as I think I am though)

Commy

Why do people assume Iraq needs outside armies patrolling it? WHy not let Iraq deal with Iraq's problems for a change. If gets to be genocidal or anything the UN should step in, but at this point the violence in Iraq is a result of foreign armies occupying their territory. Get the fuck out now.

rebornFixer

Vedderlution_Baby! wrote:

Yea but the problem with them playing a supportive role is that they may be leaned on too heavily.

I think this is the current problem ... In part, because the Iraqi forces are themselves so damn divided along sectarian lines. No one trusts anyone else.

sponger

Cosmo wrote:

'Stay The Course' and 'Cut And Run' are nothing more than cute little catch phrases that idiot America can comprehend... sort of like how idiot America thinks that 'Deal or No Deal' is some sort of game of inteligence.

So true. And where are these idiot americans that you are speaking of? I keep trying to find them, but I've been having some difficulty. I personally haven't met any. Nor do I know any. Do you?

Commy

reborncareerist wrote:

I think this is the current problem ... In part, because the Iraqi forces are themselves so damn divided along sectarian lines. No one trusts anyone else.

Doesn't help when the US arms these factions either.

Cosmo

reborncareerist wrote:

Indeed ... Its too easy to call Americans dumb. Look at the rest of the world.

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We are getting dumbed down. The government dumbs down shit... the television dumbs down shit... and a hell of a lot of Americans buy into that shit.
I'm betting that more people know more about Paris Hilton than they do about their own Congressional Representative because it is easy to absorb shit from the television. Figuring out your representative requires a little work.
In my book... that is dumb.

jlew24asu

Commy wrote:

Why do people assume Iraq needs outside armies patrolling it? WHy not let Iraq deal with Iraq's problems for a change. If gets to be genocidal or anything the UN should step in, but at this point the violence in Iraq is a result of foreign armies occupying their territory. Get the fuck out now.

America caused those problems. we need to fix it.

Ahnimus

jlew24asu wrote:

America caused those problems. we need to fix it.

"We can't solve the significant problems we face at the same level of thinking we created them"
~Albert Einstein

Vedderlution_Baby

I think it's dumb when tom cruises baby is a headline on CNN with everything else that is going on. And like I said before....more people voting in american idol than the presidental election (although jlew did point out that a lot of minors vote on the american idol). Seems like more people care about entertainment than the world. Gets em off more I guess. Now that IS dumb.

Commy

jlew24asu wrote:

America caused those problems. we need to fix it.

The United States gov't fucked it up to be sure, but that should lead people to realize they probably aren't the right ones to fix it.

Truthmonger

jlew24asu wrote:

America caused those problems. we need to fix it.

The U.S. cannot be the solution. It is now only the problem. Staying just creates the problem, exacerbates it. Almost everyone agrees to that now.

Cosmo

reborncareerist wrote:

I think this is the current problem ... In part, because the Iraqi forces are themselves so damn divided along sectarian lines. No one trusts anyone else.

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I would not feel safe placing Iraqi forces in charge of ammo dumps. What about heavy artillery or armoured divisions?
They are given rifles and U.S. surplus 6 color BDUs and sent out to the street. How effective is this force? Apparently not real effective because even with their numbers surpassing the 300,000 mark... how much has the U.S. troop level dropped? 140,000 in 2003... 140,000 in 2006.

Commy

Cosmo wrote:

...
I would not feel safe placing Iraqi forces in charge of ammo dumps. What about heavy artillery or armoured divisions?
They are given rifles and U.S. surplus 6 color BDUs and sent out to the street. How effective is this force? Apparently not real effective because even with their numbers surpassing the 300,000 mark... how much has the U.S. troop level dropped? 140,000 in 2003... 140,000 in 2006.

Most of hte peopl efighting are Iraqis...basically a civil war. If the US leaves and takes their toys with them the country can sort its own problems out.

jlew24asu

Ahnimus wrote:

"We can't solve the significant problems we face at the same level of thinking we created them"
~Albert Einstein

not another einstein quote. cant you ever think for yourself

sponger

I did have a manager when I was working for the local government who said, "The violence in Iraq is really no different from that in, say, inner city los angeles."

Cosmo

sponger wrote:

So true. And where are these idiot americans that you are speaking of? I keep trying to find them, but I've been having some difficulty. I personally haven't met any. Nor do I know any. Do you?

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You live in Southern California, right?
640 or 790 AM. You get the L.A. Times and the O.C. Register, too? Read the Op/Ed...
A WHOLE shitload of 'em.

Ahnimus

jlew24asu wrote:

not another einstein quote. cant you ever think for yourself

I am thinking for myself. My thoughts just happen to jive with one of the most notable Geniuses of all time.

You don't seem to listen to me so I thought I'd let Einstein speak for me.