"We can't solve the significant problems we face at the same level of thinking we created them"
~Albert Einstein
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I think it's dumb when tom cruises baby is a headline on CNN with everything else that is going on. And like I said before....more people voting in american idol than the presidental election (although jlew did point out that a lot of minors vote on the american idol). Seems like more people care about entertainment than the world. Gets em off more I guess. Now that IS dumb.
I think this is the current problem ... In part, because the Iraqi forces are themselves so damn divided along sectarian lines. No one trusts anyone else.
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I would not feel safe placing Iraqi forces in charge of ammo dumps. What about heavy artillery or armoured divisions?
They are given rifles and U.S. surplus 6 color BDUs and sent out to the street. How effective is this force? Apparently not real effective because even with their numbers surpassing the 300,000 mark... how much has the U.S. troop level dropped? 140,000 in 2003... 140,000 in 2006.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
I would not feel safe placing Iraqi forces in charge of ammo dumps. What about heavy artillery or armoured divisions?
They are given rifles and U.S. surplus 6 color BDUs and sent out to the street. How effective is this force? Apparently not real effective because even with their numbers surpassing the 300,000 mark... how much has the U.S. troop level dropped? 140,000 in 2003... 140,000 in 2006.
Most of hte peopl efighting are Iraqis...basically a civil war. If the US leaves and takes their toys with them the country can sort its own problems out.
I did have a manager when I was working for the local government who said, "The violence in Iraq is really no different from that in, say, inner city los angeles."
So true. And where are these idiot americans that you are speaking of? I keep trying to find them, but I've been having some difficulty. I personally haven't met any. Nor do I know any. Do you?
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You live in Southern California, right?
640 or 790 AM. You get the L.A. Times and the O.C. Register, too? Read the Op/Ed...
A WHOLE shitload of 'em.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
not another einstein quote. cant you ever think for yourself
I am thinking for myself. My thoughts just happen to jive with one of the most notable Geniuses of all time.
You don't seem to listen to me so I thought I'd let Einstein speak for me.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
The U.S. cannot be the solution. It is now only the problem. Staying just creates the problem, exacerbates it. Almost everyone agrees to that now.
leaving right now would cause a sense of lawlessness. we can at least be there to train and equip any army to defend itself. as well as build hospitals, schools, and infrasturcture.
I did have a manager when I was working for the local government who said, "The violence in Iraq is really no different from that in, say, inner city los angeles."
I did have a manager when I was working for the local government who said, "The violence in Iraq is really no different from that in, say, inner city los angeles."
I hear that argument a lot...
I'm not really sure about this but I don't think 40 people die every day in the inner cities from violence. I could be wrong.
I did have a manager when I was working for the local government who said, "The violence in Iraq is really no different from that in, say, inner city los angeles."
There's a parallel to be made, sure ... But the difference is one of degree ... And actually, there's a qualitative difference as well, in the sectarian stuff.
I did have a manager when I was working for the local government who said, "The violence in Iraq is really no different from that in, say, inner city los angeles."
...
Ask him when was the last time an L.A.P.D. crusier was blown up by an I.E.D? Or 2 dozen beheaded, mutilated bodies showed up on the street?
I'm guessing your fomer boss has never even driven through Watts.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
leaving right now would cause a sense of lawlessness. we can at least be there to train and equip any army to defend itself. as well as build hospitals, schools, and infrasturcture.
Fair enough, but you don't seem to understand is that it is the U.S., by its very presence, that is creating the havoc there. Thats what the British general was admitting to yesterday/today......that STC is like chasing your own tail. It will never end
I don't think there's any comparison at all between LA and Iraq. IED's? Mass executions and mass graves? Let's say that a US soldier equates to one LAPD Officer. That's 3K police men dead in the past couple of years. I just don't see the similarity.
Fair enough, but you don't seem to understand is that it is the U.S., by its very presence, that is creating the havoc there. Thats what the British general was admitting to yesterday/today......that STC is like chasing your own tail. It will never end
O i understand perfectly. our presence is not welcome by most. but our presence also provides security and our dollars provide the other things I mentioned. we arent there to set up a colony. we will get out when the country can stand on its own feet.
I'm not really sure about this but I don't think 40 people die every day in the inner cities from violence. I could be wrong.
40 ? 159 died from violence yesterday in iraq. They're finding dead bodies by the dozen dumped on roadways. You literally cannot travel because of the danger.
Most of hte peopl efighting are Iraqis...basically a civil war. If the US leaves and takes their toys with them the country can sort its own problems out.
...
That's how I feel.
I believe that even if ISRAEL were to pack up their shit an move into Baja California... those fuckers would STILL be fighting and killing each other.
We cannot seriously believe that by bringing them voting booths, McDonalds and Wal-Marts that they will turn into us.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
O i understand perfectly. our presence is not welcome by most. but our presence also provides security and our dollars provide the other things I mentioned. we arent there to set up a colony. we will get out when the country can stand on its own feet.
Then why did the U.S. just spend 800 million on a new American embassy in baghdad ? And why is it planning on setting up at least 4 new permanent military bases in iraq ?
Oh, and your money ain't doin shit. Raw sewage runs down city streets and 3 years later, many parts of Iraq get only 12 hrs. of electricity a day. There is no security. And the country is now in the throes of a civil war, as judged by almost any standard.
...
That's how I feel.
I believe that even if ISRAEL were to pack up their shit an move into Baja California... those fuckers would STILL be fighting and killing each other.
We cannot seriously believe that by bringing them voting booths, McDonalds and Wal-Marts that they will turn into us.
Exactly ... That's where I'm at as well. I once thought that maybe a civil war in Iraq could be avoided, but I don't think so any longer. In fact, the problems between people over there were on bloody display LONG before U.S. troops set foot on Iraqi soil.
And why is that? They didn't ask to be invaded. They suffered for years under Saddam Hussain, and now they suffering even more because bush fucked up. They deserve their country back.
but of course, americans are more important than Iraqis arent they miller. Just shows how much of a raci....
Why do i care more about U.S troops?! cause their my neighbors! I live with them, see them at the mall, hell there my friends. I care more about my friends than some people ill never meet.
Same as that i care more about my family than i do yours; that doesnt mean i dont have empathy. But i wouldnt risk one of my family members for one of yours.
Then why did the U.S. just spend 800 million on a new American embassy in baghdad ? And why is it planning on setting up at least 4 new permanent military bases in iraq ?
Oh, and your money ain't doin shit. Raw sewage runs down city streets and 3 years later, many parts of Iraq get only 12 hrs. of electricity a day. There is no security. And the country is now in the throes of a civil war, as judged by almost any standard.
america has military bases all over the world. doesnt mean if there is a military base that we are occupying the country.
money is doin something. but thanks for your nice take on it. rome wasnt built in a day. building a country's infrastructure takes a long time. espically when you cant put all your focus on it.
here is a website I found with some info. not sure if its true. but it lists some positive and negatives.
If the US just up and left right now, the violence going on in Iraq would pale in comparison to the full scale civil war that would surely happen. I know it's hard to imagine a situation worse than what is happening on a daily basis right now, but we need only look to history for an example. Beirut? The violence in Iraq right now is like a patrick swayze bar fight compared to what went on in Beirut during the last 30 yrs or so.
Since when has a situation like the one in Iraq been able to "sort itself out" without a full-blown civil war that levels most of the infrastructure, leaving a totalitarian regime in control?
america has military bases all over the world. doesnt mean if there is a military base that we are occupying the country.
money is doin something. but thanks for your nice take on it. rome wasnt built in a day. building a country's infrastructure takes a long time. espically when you cant put all your focus on it.
here is a website I found with some info. not sure if its true. but it lists some positive and negatives.
Do you wanna know why your money ain't doin' anything ? Its b/c of the 400 billion that the US has spent on Iraq so far, only a minscule amount has gone to reconstruction. And I mean muniscule - something like 3 or 4 %. Is the US doing good things in Iraq - of course it is, but then why shouldn't they, it was them who dropped 500 lb. bombs based on a litany of lies.
You think the avg. Iraqi doesn't know that ? You think they forgot about Abu Ghraib already ? You think they're thankful for starting a civil war in their country ? You think the 1 million who fled Iraq wanted to leave ? Iraq is in shambles right now.
If the US just up and left right now, the violence going on in Iraq would pale in comparison to the full scale civil war that would surely happen. I know it's hard to imagine a situation worse than what is happening on a daily basis right now, but we need only look to history for an example. Beirut? The violence in Iraq right now is like a patrick swayze bar fight compared to what went on in Beirut during the last 30 yrs or so.
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So, what you are saying... that we are holding down a pressure cooker situation? Will the longer we clamp down on them... the greater the possibility that it will eventually just go away?
If that is the case... why don't we clamp down on the Israel/Palestine thing and eventually, they will forget all about past aggressions.
Because it won't work.
Pointing a gun at two people the make sure they won't kill each other... it means you will spend a long, long time pointing that gun. and there is no guarantee that they won't kill each other once you have left.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
So, what you are saying... that we are holding down a pressure cooker situation? Will the longer we clamp down on them... the greater the possibility that it will eventually just go away?
If that is the case... why don't we clamp down on the Israel/Palestine thing and eventually, they will forget all about past aggressions.
Because it won't work.
Pointing a gun at two people the make sure they won't kill each other... it means you will spend a long, long time pointing that gun. and there is no guarantee that they won't kill each other once you have left.
In the case of Israel and Palestine, when did a foreign occupation attempting to "clamp" the situation ever happen? You don't really know if it would work or not.
Not to mention, the civil war that would happen in Iraq would happen on death toll scale far exceeding that existing between Palestine and Israel. And the end result would most certainly mean the installation of a totalitarian regime just as bad, if not worse, than Saddam.
I think you are underestimating how bad it would really get over there. You can't just back off and let it run its course. We might very well be looking at genocide. Do you think the US should back off and let genocide run its course?
I don't think leaving Iraq would result in a totalitarian regime. I think it would end in 3 seperate nations. Probably the way it should be. Unfortunately there will be a lot of violence leading up to that point.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Yea but the problem with them playing a supportive role is that they may be leaned on too heavily. After awhile it may be back to the way it was before. If you take the soldiers out...then they can't be used as much. (I think that makes sense. I may not be explaining as effectively as I think I am though)
That is why I like Murtha's plan when he originally came out with it... He wanted to re-depoly and increasing number of troops to outside areas like kuwait or surrounding areas so that we can go an and support the Iraquis when they get in trouble and need us. I just do see them having any incentive to right their own ship with us holding their hands the whole time.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Comments
"We can't solve the significant problems we face at the same level of thinking we created them"
~Albert Einstein
The United States gov't fucked it up to be sure, but that should lead people to realize they probably aren't the right ones to fix it.
The U.S. cannot be the solution. It is now only the problem. Staying just creates the problem, exacerbates it. Almost everyone agrees to that now.
I would not feel safe placing Iraqi forces in charge of ammo dumps. What about heavy artillery or armoured divisions?
They are given rifles and U.S. surplus 6 color BDUs and sent out to the street. How effective is this force? Apparently not real effective because even with their numbers surpassing the 300,000 mark... how much has the U.S. troop level dropped? 140,000 in 2003... 140,000 in 2006.
Hail, Hail!!!
Most of hte peopl efighting are Iraqis...basically a civil war. If the US leaves and takes their toys with them the country can sort its own problems out.
not another einstein quote. cant you ever think for yourself
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
You live in Southern California, right?
640 or 790 AM. You get the L.A. Times and the O.C. Register, too? Read the Op/Ed...
A WHOLE shitload of 'em.
Hail, Hail!!!
I am thinking for myself. My thoughts just happen to jive with one of the most notable Geniuses of all time.
You don't seem to listen to me so I thought I'd let Einstein speak for me.
leaving right now would cause a sense of lawlessness. we can at least be there to train and equip any army to defend itself. as well as build hospitals, schools, and infrasturcture.
Thats absurd
I'm not really sure about this but I don't think 40 people die every day in the inner cities from violence. I could be wrong.
There's a parallel to be made, sure ... But the difference is one of degree ... And actually, there's a qualitative difference as well, in the sectarian stuff.
Ask him when was the last time an L.A.P.D. crusier was blown up by an I.E.D? Or 2 dozen beheaded, mutilated bodies showed up on the street?
I'm guessing your fomer boss has never even driven through Watts.
Hail, Hail!!!
Fair enough, but you don't seem to understand is that it is the U.S., by its very presence, that is creating the havoc there. Thats what the British general was admitting to yesterday/today......that STC is like chasing your own tail. It will never end
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
O i understand perfectly. our presence is not welcome by most. but our presence also provides security and our dollars provide the other things I mentioned. we arent there to set up a colony. we will get out when the country can stand on its own feet.
40 ? 159 died from violence yesterday in iraq. They're finding dead bodies by the dozen dumped on roadways. You literally cannot travel because of the danger.
That's how I feel.
I believe that even if ISRAEL were to pack up their shit an move into Baja California... those fuckers would STILL be fighting and killing each other.
We cannot seriously believe that by bringing them voting booths, McDonalds and Wal-Marts that they will turn into us.
Hail, Hail!!!
Then why did the U.S. just spend 800 million on a new American embassy in baghdad ? And why is it planning on setting up at least 4 new permanent military bases in iraq ?
Oh, and your money ain't doin shit. Raw sewage runs down city streets and 3 years later, many parts of Iraq get only 12 hrs. of electricity a day. There is no security. And the country is now in the throes of a civil war, as judged by almost any standard.
Exactly ... That's where I'm at as well. I once thought that maybe a civil war in Iraq could be avoided, but I don't think so any longer. In fact, the problems between people over there were on bloody display LONG before U.S. troops set foot on Iraqi soil.
Why do i care more about U.S troops?! cause their my neighbors! I live with them, see them at the mall, hell there my friends. I care more about my friends than some people ill never meet.
Same as that i care more about my family than i do yours; that doesnt mean i dont have empathy. But i wouldnt risk one of my family members for one of yours.
america has military bases all over the world. doesnt mean if there is a military base that we are occupying the country.
money is doin something. but thanks for your nice take on it. rome wasnt built in a day. building a country's infrastructure takes a long time. espically when you cant put all your focus on it.
here is a website I found with some info. not sure if its true. but it lists some positive and negatives.
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/r/rayreynolds.htm
Since when has a situation like the one in Iraq been able to "sort itself out" without a full-blown civil war that levels most of the infrastructure, leaving a totalitarian regime in control?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Do you wanna know why your money ain't doin' anything ? Its b/c of the 400 billion that the US has spent on Iraq so far, only a minscule amount has gone to reconstruction. And I mean muniscule - something like 3 or 4 %. Is the US doing good things in Iraq - of course it is, but then why shouldn't they, it was them who dropped 500 lb. bombs based on a litany of lies.
You think the avg. Iraqi doesn't know that ? You think they forgot about Abu Ghraib already ? You think they're thankful for starting a civil war in their country ? You think the 1 million who fled Iraq wanted to leave ? Iraq is in shambles right now.
Its time to go bud.
So, what you are saying... that we are holding down a pressure cooker situation? Will the longer we clamp down on them... the greater the possibility that it will eventually just go away?
If that is the case... why don't we clamp down on the Israel/Palestine thing and eventually, they will forget all about past aggressions.
Because it won't work.
Pointing a gun at two people the make sure they won't kill each other... it means you will spend a long, long time pointing that gun. and there is no guarantee that they won't kill each other once you have left.
Hail, Hail!!!
In the case of Israel and Palestine, when did a foreign occupation attempting to "clamp" the situation ever happen? You don't really know if it would work or not.
Not to mention, the civil war that would happen in Iraq would happen on death toll scale far exceeding that existing between Palestine and Israel. And the end result would most certainly mean the installation of a totalitarian regime just as bad, if not worse, than Saddam.
I think you are underestimating how bad it would really get over there. You can't just back off and let it run its course. We might very well be looking at genocide. Do you think the US should back off and let genocide run its course?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
That is why I like Murtha's plan when he originally came out with it... He wanted to re-depoly and increasing number of troops to outside areas like kuwait or surrounding areas so that we can go an and support the Iraquis when they get in trouble and need us. I just do see them having any incentive to right their own ship with us holding their hands the whole time.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln