Iraq - Stay the course or Come home now?
jlew24asu
Posts: 10,118
No one here will dispute that Bush sold the war against saddam because he supposedly had WMD's. no one will deny saddam used them in the past, but none were found. ok we got that. maybe they were buried in the desert somewhere. who knows. Saddam also defied several UN resolutions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_1441
Bush wasnt the only one who considered War with Saddam or was convinced he had WMD's.
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.
Bush and Rumsfield had no plan on what to do once we toppled the Baath governement. that will turn out to be one of the biggest fuck ups in history. Ok well we cant change that now, so now what? Bush's stay the course cowboy talk isnt the best approach, IMO. I also think he does that so he doesnt sound weak while 150,000 American solider's lives are on the line. what would be useful is admitting they made mistakes and now will work to fix those mistakes, by "stay the course" to help the Iraqis rebuild their country.
should we stay the course and help? or leave and let the country fall into civil war?
Personally, I think its time for a timetable to get out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_1441
Bush wasnt the only one who considered War with Saddam or was convinced he had WMD's.
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.
Bush and Rumsfield had no plan on what to do once we toppled the Baath governement. that will turn out to be one of the biggest fuck ups in history. Ok well we cant change that now, so now what? Bush's stay the course cowboy talk isnt the best approach, IMO. I also think he does that so he doesnt sound weak while 150,000 American solider's lives are on the line. what would be useful is admitting they made mistakes and now will work to fix those mistakes, by "stay the course" to help the Iraqis rebuild their country.
should we stay the course and help? or leave and let the country fall into civil war?
Personally, I think its time for a timetable to get out.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
That's where my feelings are at too.
The other part wants to pull out and save U.S troops lives ( i care alot mroe abotu u.s troops than i do iraqi civilians).
I thought that too until we killed Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. now we should go back to afgahistan and finish off the Taliban.
I think we need to let soldiers do what it is they were trained to do. Fight. Soldiers aren't police officers, that's not their job. We train them to fight and kill. If we want to get out of there sooner, we should stop dicking around. Add more troops secure the boarders. Stop letting foreign fighters cross into the country.
well Military police and national guard troops certainly can "police" areas. but I agree with you. I also agree we need more troops to secure the border. Iran is sending people in to fuck shit up. that needs to stop now.
The U.S. administration and Blair just chose to ignore the U.N.
The C.I.A. also informed that there was no evidence of WMDs in Iraq.
It's all pretty screwed up now, pulling out is probably the best thing to do.
That's what we should've told Bush Sr.
If I had a time-machine I'd go back and tell James Smith Bush to use a Prophylactic.
And why is that? They didn't ask to be invaded. They suffered for years under Saddam Hussain, and now they suffering even more because bush fucked up. They deserve their country back.
but of course, americans are more important than Iraqis arent they miller. Just shows how much of a raci....
"suffering even more" is your opinion. yes they deserve their country back. staying would help that cause, more then leaving now.
he didnt say americans are more important. he said he cares more about americans then iraqis. doesnt show he a racists.
I think it's putting the value of U.S. soldiers above Iraqi civilians which is a racial bias.
By the way, it is worse now then it was 5 years ago. Some say it's better, they are typically some kind of Iraqi official.
some say its worse, some say its better. matter of opinion. neither of us have been there. before or after. so its all opinion, based on what you read.
It could be racial, or it could be based on nationalism. Or it could be based on neither.
You never watched that documentary eh? I mean, right?
'Stay the Course' and 'Cut and Run' are the extreme ends of a wide spectrum of possible solutions to a very complex, mulit-faceted problem that will result in a myriad of probable outcomes. It not a matter of choosing only:
A. Stay The Course... OR
B. Cut and Run.
Only idiots think those are our only options.
...
How about changing the course to try to achieve the proper conditions to leave Iraq a relatively stable environment to allow U.S. and other foriegn troops to vacate the place?
Not catchy enough... right?
How about focusing on setting priorities and effectively executing them in order to accomplish the next objective?
Priorities:
Security
Rebuilding Infrastructure
Rebuilding/Establishing Social Order
Transition of Power
Homecoming.
You need to secure the place in order to accomplish any of the other objectives. The final objective should be Coming Home... but, I doubt if that is even an objective in this current plan. I believe that the current plan is a long term residency of U.S. troops in Iraq... possibly for decades to come.
As for security... how many boots do we need? If you believe the Bush Administraton's numbers, we have 140,000 U.S. Troops, 7,000 British and 308,000 ("trained and Equipped") Iraqis... that is 455,000 total. How many more do we need? My guess... either the numbers are inflated or an outright lie... or the Iraqis are a piece of worthless shit.
And we need to look at Iraq for what it is... what it has become. A Religious War between two sects of the same religion with our troops caught up in the middle. You can pretend that it is just a bunch of 'rebels' trying to create chaos over there, but the fact remains... the majority of deaths over there right now mainly centers on whether you are Shi'ite or Sunni.
...
Maybe it's time to cut a trillion dollar check, payable to 'Iraq' with an apology for bombing the fuck out of the place and pack up our shit an split. They don't want us there anyway... they didn't want us there in the first place.
Hail, Hail!!!
and I dont think anyone beileves deal or no deal is a skill game. its entertainment for some. chill
Indeed ... Its too easy to call Americans dumb. Look at the rest of the world.
Because it is true... 'Stay The Course' and 'Cut and Run' are cute little catch phrases that dumbs it down so even an idiot can figure it out. You shoot for the D, F end of the Bell Curve and you get idiotic little phrases.
And how many times is that presented to us as the only possibilities? We hear it all the time coming from the White House... regurgitated nightly on cable infotainment television... all shooting for the D, F, end of the curve. People who get their politics from cable T.V. are idiots. Idiots because there is no fucking way you can get all of the true facts from 2 minute segments, sandwiched between Natalie Hollaway and Jennifer Aniston stories.
Iraq is an extremely complicated problem that our actions have made even more complex. I am sure there atre people working one it, but we really don't know what the REAL objectives of this administration are. Do they even WANT us to ever leave that fucking shithole? I greatly doubt it.
Hail, Hail!!!
not a bad idea. I think your idea can be accomplished without sending them home. coalition forces can play a support role. I think thats happening, but I dontknow, i've never beenthere
Yea but the problem with them playing a supportive role is that they may be leaned on too heavily. After awhile it may be back to the way it was before. If you take the soldiers out...then they can't be used as much. (I think that makes sense. I may not be explaining as effectively as I think I am though)
Yea but the problem with them playing a supportive role is that they may be leaned on too heavily. After awhile it may be back to the way it was before. If you take the soldiers out...then they can't be used as much. (I think that makes sense. I may not be explaining as effectively as I think I am though)
I think this is the current problem ... In part, because the Iraqi forces are themselves so damn divided along sectarian lines. No one trusts anyone else.
So true. And where are these idiot americans that you are speaking of? I keep trying to find them, but I've been having some difficulty. I personally haven't met any. Nor do I know any. Do you?
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
We are getting dumbed down. The government dumbs down shit... the television dumbs down shit... and a hell of a lot of Americans buy into that shit.
I'm betting that more people know more about Paris Hilton than they do about their own Congressional Representative because it is easy to absorb shit from the television. Figuring out your representative requires a little work.
In my book... that is dumb.
Hail, Hail!!!
America caused those problems. we need to fix it.