Iraq - Stay the course or Come home now?

jlew24asu

No one here will dispute that Bush sold the war against saddam because he supposedly had WMD's. no one will deny saddam used them in the past, but none were found. ok we got that. maybe they were buried in the desert somewhere. who knows. Saddam also defied several UN resolutions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_1441

Bush wasnt the only one who considered War with Saddam or was convinced he had WMD's.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."

President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.


Bush and Rumsfield had no plan on what to do once we toppled the Baath governement. that will turn out to be one of the biggest fuck ups in history. Ok well we cant change that now, so now what? Bush's stay the course cowboy talk isnt the best approach, IMO. I also think he does that so he doesnt sound weak while 150,000 American solider's lives are on the line. what would be useful is admitting they made mistakes and now will work to fix those mistakes, by "stay the course" to help the Iraqis rebuild their country.

should we stay the course and help? or leave and let the country fall into civil war?

Personally, I think its time for a timetable to get out.

rebornFixer

jlew24asu wrote:

Personally, I think its time for a timetable to get out.

That's where my feelings are at too.

miller8966

Im not too sure. Part of me thinks this is the major theater in the war on terrorism and to stay the course; that yes their are going to be deaths and thats what happens in war. A pull out now would only strengthen islamic fundamentalism.

The other part wants to pull out and save U.S troops lives ( i care alot mroe abotu u.s troops than i do iraqi civilians).

jlew24asu

miller8966 wrote:

Im not too sure. Part of me thinks this is the major theater in the war on terrorism and to stay the course; that yes their are going to be deaths and thats what happens in war. A pull out now would only strengthen islamic fundamentalism.

The other part wants to pull out and save U.S troops lives ( i care alot mroe abotu u.s troops than i do iraqi civilians).

I thought that too until we killed Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. now we should go back to afgahistan and finish off the Taliban.

prytocorduroy

I think we should finish whatever job we were supposed to do and leave. But not now. I'd be ashamed if we left the mess we made.

The Illinoisemakers

I want to get our troops home as soon as possible. That being said I don't expect a full withdrawl for another 5-10 years. Whenever I talk to my friend who served in the Army and spent a year in Iraq after the initial ground war, he always tells me, when I ask about leaving Iraq, we still have troops in the Balkans and that was how long ago?

I think we need to let soldiers do what it is they were trained to do. Fight. Soldiers aren't police officers, that's not their job. We train them to fight and kill. If we want to get out of there sooner, we should stop dicking around. Add more troops secure the boarders. Stop letting foreign fighters cross into the country.

jlew24asu

The Illinoisemakers wrote:

I want to get our troops home as soon as possible. That being said I don't expect a full withdrawl for another 5-10 years. Whenever I talk to my friend who served in the Army and spent a year in Iraq after the initial ground war, he always tells me, when I ask about leaving Iraq, we still have troops in the Balkans and that was how long ago?

I think we need to let soldiers do what it is they were trained to do. Fight. Soldiers aren't police officers, that's not their job. We train them to fight and kill. If we want to get out of there sooner, we should stop dicking around. Add more troops secure the boarders. Stop letting foreign fighters cross into the country.

well Military police and national guard troops certainly can "police" areas. but I agree with you. I also agree we need more troops to secure the border. Iran is sending people in to fuck shit up. that needs to stop now.

Ahnimus

The IAEA or U.N. Weapons Inspectors clearly stated before the war that Saddam had dismantled his weapons and was not pursueing development of any new biological, chemical or nuclear weapons.

The U.S. administration and Blair just chose to ignore the U.N.

The C.I.A. also informed that there was no evidence of WMDs in Iraq.

It's all pretty screwed up now, pulling out is probably the best thing to do.

prytocorduroy

Ahnimus wrote:

pulling out is probably the best thing to do.

That's what we should've told Bush Sr.

Ahnimus

danny72688 wrote:

That's what we should've told Bush Sr.

If I had a time-machine I'd go back and tell James Smith Bush to use a Prophylactic.

Scratchin a Letter

miller8966 wrote:

( i care alot mroe abotu u.s troops than i do iraqi civilians).

And why is that? They didn't ask to be invaded. They suffered for years under Saddam Hussain, and now they suffering even more because bush fucked up. They deserve their country back.

but of course, americans are more important than Iraqis arent they miller. Just shows how much of a raci....

jlew24asu

Scratchin a Letter wrote:

And why is that? They didn't ask to be invaded. They suffered for years under Saddam Hussain, and now they suffering even more because bush fucked up. They deserve their country back.

but of course, americans are more important than Iraqis arent they miller. Just shows how much of a raci....

"suffering even more" is your opinion. yes they deserve their country back. staying would help that cause, more then leaving now.

he didnt say americans are more important. he said he cares more about americans then iraqis. doesnt show he a racists.

Ahnimus

jlew24asu wrote:

"suffering even more" is your opinion. yes they deserve their country back. staying would help that cause, more then leaving now.

he didnt say americans are more important. he said he cares more about americans then iraqis. doesnt show he a racists.

I think it's putting the value of U.S. soldiers above Iraqi civilians which is a racial bias.

By the way, it is worse now then it was 5 years ago. Some say it's better, they are typically some kind of Iraqi official.

jlew24asu

Ahnimus wrote:

I think it's putting the value of U.S. soldiers above Iraqi civilians which is a racial bias.

By the way, it is worse now then it was 5 years ago. Some say it's better, they are typically some kind of Iraqi official.

some say its worse, some say its better. matter of opinion. neither of us have been there. before or after. so its all opinion, based on what you read.

rebornFixer

Ahnimus wrote:

I think it's putting the value of U.S. soldiers above Iraqi civilians which is a racial bias.

By the way, it is worse now then it was 5 years ago. Some say it's better, they are typically some kind of Iraqi official.

It could be racial, or it could be based on nationalism. Or it could be based on neither.

Ahnimus

jlew24asu wrote:

some say its worse, some say its better. matter of opinion. neither of us have been there. before or after. so its all opinion, based on what you read.

You never watched that documentary eh? I mean, right?

Truthmonger

Ah, what about the desires of Iraqi's themselves ? Oh, that's OK, only 71% of them want the U.S. out, so what does that matter....

Cosmo

This is the problem with politics based upon infotainment gotten from television. 'Stay The Course' and 'Cut And Run' are nothing more than cute little catch phrases that idiot America can comprehend... sort of like how idiot America thinks that 'Deal or No Deal' is some sort of game of inteligence. Cute catch phrases from 10 second sound bite and all of a sudden, your a fucking political expert.
'Stay the Course' and 'Cut and Run' are the extreme ends of a wide spectrum of possible solutions to a very complex, mulit-faceted problem that will result in a myriad of probable outcomes. It not a matter of choosing only:
A. Stay The Course... OR
B. Cut and Run.
Only idiots think those are our only options.
...
How about changing the course to try to achieve the proper conditions to leave Iraq a relatively stable environment to allow U.S. and other foriegn troops to vacate the place?
Not catchy enough... right?
How about focusing on setting priorities and effectively executing them in order to accomplish the next objective?
Priorities:
Security
Rebuilding Infrastructure
Rebuilding/Establishing Social Order
Transition of Power
Homecoming.
You need to secure the place in order to accomplish any of the other objectives. The final objective should be Coming Home... but, I doubt if that is even an objective in this current plan. I believe that the current plan is a long term residency of U.S. troops in Iraq... possibly for decades to come.
As for security... how many boots do we need? If you believe the Bush Administraton's numbers, we have 140,000 U.S. Troops, 7,000 British and 308,000 ("trained and Equipped") Iraqis... that is 455,000 total. How many more do we need? My guess... either the numbers are inflated or an outright lie... or the Iraqis are a piece of worthless shit.
And we need to look at Iraq for what it is... what it has become. A Religious War between two sects of the same religion with our troops caught up in the middle. You can pretend that it is just a bunch of 'rebels' trying to create chaos over there, but the fact remains... the majority of deaths over there right now mainly centers on whether you are Shi'ite or Sunni.
...
Maybe it's time to cut a trillion dollar check, payable to 'Iraq' with an apology for bombing the fuck out of the place and pack up our shit an split. They don't want us there anyway... they didn't want us there in the first place.

jlew24asu

dude you make good points but most you sink to calling everyone idiots for using phrases that are easy to say for sake of discussion. so thank you for gracing us with your presence. we are all so much wiser now.

and I dont think anyone beileves deal or no deal is a skill game. its entertainment for some. chill

rebornFixer

jlew24asu wrote:

dude you make good points but most you sink to calling everyone idiots for using phrases that are easy to say for sake of discussion. so thank you for gracing us with your presence. we are all so much wiser now.

and I dont think anyone beileves deal or no deal is a skill game. its entertainment for some. chill

Indeed ... Its too easy to call Americans dumb. Look at the rest of the world.

Vedderlution_Baby

What if we started to pull out a small number of troops at predetermined times so the Iraqi police and officials would have to react and do something? I mean, why would you want to fight your own battles when someone comes along and says they'll do it for you?