Militaries are the same as terrorists

shiraz

dayan wrote:

I'm fairly certain Israel is not holding 10,000 Lebanese prisoners in jail. Certainly there are Lebanese prisoners, but not 10,000 of them. Besides which, please tell me how indiscriminate bombing of civilians is a legitimate means of obtaining the release of prisoners. I was under the impression that attacking civilians to achieve a political aim is defined as terrorism. As for the Palestinians, you are virtually admitting that Hezbollah is using the Palestinians as an excuse to attack Israel. Palestinians are not Lebanese. Their struggle is not Hezbollah's. And even if Hezbollah was motivated by empathy and solidarity with the Palestinians, again, please tell me how attacking civilians is a legitimate means of expressing support?

Only 3 prisoners, all were sent to prison after a fair trail.

Abuskedti

dayan wrote:

This doesn't deserve a response. I understand that you oppose the war in Iraq, but when you reduce things to absurdities like this there isn't anything to talk about.

whatever.. you all simplify the actions of terrorists as evil, yet always add the personal story behind our actions and why we are killing them and the distance we are from the killing makes it better for you.

We kill for our oun prosperity.

They do the same.

Yet, currently it can correctly be argued that we are killing for our prosperity and they are killing in self defense and self and cultural preservation.

Byrnzie

dayan wrote:

I'm fairly certain Israel is not holding 10,000 Lebanese prisoners in jail. Certainly there are Lebanese prisoners, but not 10,000 of them.

Lebanon wants return of Shebaa Farms
By Cilina Nasser in Beirut

Sunday 30 July 2006, 8:22 Makka Time, 5:22 GMT


Siniora: Re-taking the Shebaa Farms would be a victory for all Lebanese

“Today while we understand, appreciate and grasp the extreme pressures the resistance in Palestine is being subjected to, both externally and internally, we unite our voices and stand with theirs to say yes this issue is worth that level of sacrifice, confrontation and steadiness for it is a matter of principle and the issue of 10,000 detainees.” —Hezbollah Secretary-General Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah (June 30)


Fouad Siniora, the Lebanese prime minister, has said that if Israel wants secure borders it must withdraw from the disputed Shebaa Farms area it has occupied since 1967.

Israel, which has bombarded Beirut's suburbs and southern Lebanon with aircraft and artillery since July 12, has said it wants to weaken Hezbollah so that the Lebanese government can disarm the group.

In an interview with Aljazeera.net late on Friday, Siniora said his government cannot force Hezbollah to disarm as long as Israel continues to occupy the Shebaa Farms.

He said: "I'd like to remind you that the Shebaa Farms is not a property of Hezbollah. It's a property of Lebanon and it's for all the Lebanese.

"So anyone who would say that giving this land back to Lebanon would be considered a victory for Hezbollah is mistaken. This issue has to be looked at in totality. Lebanon gets back its land and, ultimately, Israel gets a safe border."

Israel withdrew from the country in May 2000 but it maintained control over the Shebaa Farms that is claimed by Lebanon.

The UN says that the Shebaa Farms are Syrian territory captured in the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.

Ceasefire plan

Siniora also cited Lebanon's casualty figures as indication of who was paying the price for the recent conflict.

"Do you think that Israel has been bombing Hezbollah fighters? No, this is a war against Lebanese civilians."

Factbox: The Shebaa Farms

The Shebaa Farms is the name given to a 10 km sq area of farmland at the point where the Lebanese, Syrian and Israeli borders meet.

The Shebaa Farms were first occupied by Israel in the wake of the 1967 War, also known as the Six Day War.


On Saturday, the UN said at least 600 Lebanese have been killed and over 3,220 injured in the conflict so far while nearly 800,000 have been displaced.

Siniora said: "Israel cannot win this war. Yes, it can kill; but it cannot win the war."

His comments came a day after two Hezbollah ministers agreed to his seven-point package delivered Wednesday at an international conference in Rome.

The package calls for an immediate ceasefire to be followed by the release of Lebanese and Israeli prisoners, Israeli withdrawal behind the border and the return of Lebanese displaced by the fighting.

The two cabinet ministers representing Hezbollah voiced their reservations over some parts of the plan, such as the call for spreading Lebanese government authority over the entire country and strengthening an international force in south Lebanon.

But Siniora told Aljazeera.net that Lebanon can no longer afford to be heavily bombarded by the Israelis every few years. That's why, he insisted, the country should get to a situation where the Lebanese authorities are the only body that could hold weapons.

Disarming Hezbollah

So far, the council for development and reconstruction has estimated Lebanon's losses due to the destruction of infrastructure in this war alone to be over US$2billion.

However, the prime minister said that confining arms to the Lebanese army would have to be done only after Israel pulls out from the Shebaa Farms.


He said: "Hezbollah has expressed many times that it has the following objectives: liberating Lebanese occupied land, getting maps of all landmines planted in southern Lebanon during the Israeli occupation, and securing the release of our detainees who are held in Israeli jails."

He further said that those who want Hezbollah to disarm they should work on removing the causes that are enabling the Shia group to keep its weapons rather than exerting pressure on it.

"There are reasons why Hezbollah's military wing exists. If we take them away, there will be no reason for it to continue."

Establishing security

Siniora said: "If Israel does not want to withdraw from Shebaa, it means it does not want to establish stability in the region. Who is really causing the violence here? It's the warring party insisting on aggression by keeping other people’s lands."

Siniora warned that the continuation of the Israeli wide-scale attack on Lebanon would only lead to more deaths and destruction that would fuel hatred.

The premier refrained from criticising George Bush, the US president, and Tony Blair, the British prime minister, for failing to call for an immediate truce following their meeting Friday to discuss the Middle East crisis. Asked if they have let him down, he said: "I don’t like to use the word disappointment."

aoife

WindNoSail wrote:

This conversation started elsewhere, but I thought it worthy its own thread. I really want to hear why so many want to equate them the same. I don't get it. From the bottom up.....

i agree in fact i think they are even worse

dayan

Byrnzie, what was the point of that? You posted something that is entirely meaningless. Did you mean to show that there really are 10,000 Lebanese prisoners in Israel, cause if that was your purpose I don't think Hassan Nassrallah is a trust worthy source.

enharmonic

Hizbullah are not officially recognized as a terror organization. Mostly because they're not terrorists.

Abookamongstthemany

Abuskedti wrote:

whatever.. you all simplify the actions of terrorists as evil, yet always add the personal story behind our actions and why we are killing them and the distance we are from the killing makes it better for you.

We kill for our oun prosperity.

They do the same.

Yet, currently it can correctly be argued that we are killing for our prosperity and they are killing in self defense and self and cultural preservation.

...........

WindNoSail

enharmonic wrote:

Hizbullah are not officially recognized as a terror organization. Mostly because they're not terrorists.

Do your homework before you say something...

edit: thanks ABook


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hezbollah#Designation_as_terrorist_organization

WindNoSail

enharmonic wrote:

Bill Hicks said it best.

"Hitler had the right idea, he was just an underachiever."

The Jews certainly killed tens of thousands of people to claim their expanded borders. They're not innocent in this. If anything, they learned nothing from being oppressed people, except how to oppress.

Edit:
Can you say eraser?

Abookamongstthemany

WindNoSail wrote:

I think your post needs special attention.....maybe the mods should consider exactly what you are saying here. If threads get deleted because of anti Muslim statements, then maybe this one should be deleted or you should be banned for this statement. I demand equal treatment.

The Hicks joke was sarcasm and the rest was a damn good point.

WindNoSail

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

The Hicks joke was sarcasm and the rest was a damn good point.

I considered that .... wasn't sure, no smiley faces

My point was Hitlter was a fuck, and I hope he knows that his little plan failed to the point that it brought about the creation of Israel. I really hope he knows that, of course he is probabaly too busy gnashing his teeth to pay attention.

I think that is an even better point

Abookamongstthemany

WindNoSail wrote:

I considered that .... wasn't sure, no smiley faces

My point was Hitlter was a fuck, and I hope he knows that his little plan failed to the point that it brought about the creation of Israel. I really hope he knows that, of course he is probabaly too busy gnashing his teeth to pay attention.

I think that is an even better point

What seems sad to me is that even beyond the grave, he is still causing great anguish onto our world. And we are letting it happen.

El_Kabong

El_Kabong wrote:

you're saying a military has never been misused? you're saying germany used it's military for good things?

<cough> <cough>