Indeed, I am not aware of any cases ... My brain tends to jump to potential problems with any course of action. You've made the case well, though.
Thank you kindly. Nice to have an intelligent debate. Personally, I hear your concerns, but until legislators take much stricter action in Washington I don't see other recourse than civil suits. I used to want to overturn the 2nd Amendment, but as much as I may want to it's in our Bill of Rights; it's absolutely sacred and I feel that in these times our Constitution is the greatest thing to hold onto. I just don't think the Framers could have ever imagined high schoolers shooting up schools with Uzis, and cop-killer armor piercing bullets. If they had been able to see that, the 2nd Amendment may have been a little different. So I don't want it repealed; I just want our laws to acknowledge that we live in different times.
i am not voting for obama, but some things I wanted to rebut. Bush used cocaine and pot as well. Its long been known that he escaped service in vietnam, by getting transfered to the National Guard. His dad was in politics of course. He was caught with cocaine. He went to court and had it expunged from his record. Wonder what Bush's views on cocaine users are now? You think he would allow them to go to court and get it expunged? Me thinks not. Bush has stooped low to avoid it leaking out. The genius that is Rove and Bush: James Hatfield's 1999 biography of Bush paints a portrait of Bush as a lunatic and the idiot that he is. Anyways, one of the main claims to fame the book had was that it exposed the Bush cocaine use and the coverup. Rove called the author, told him this information, anonymously. After that, the author was HOUNDED and ASSAILED. He ended up commiting suicide. Sickening and disturbing and criminal yes, but absolutely brilliant political manuevering. what was so genius was their awareness and foresight. they knew no one would believe the cocaine statements. they knew he would be hounded and people would call him names and worse. they knew it. And they knew no one would back up his statements, as his source was an anonymous rove
To be fair, I haven't really heard any McCain surrogates, or even much viral bullshit, detailing Obama's drug use. I don't think it's cause they want to avoid it, but I don't think they feel they could make much political hay out of it.
That is of course, besides this complete and utter douchebag. Of course, he's not Republican...
Bats are made for baseball, guns are made for hunting....Logical enough?
SOME guns are for hunting....Rifles, handguns and the like....but assault type weapons...ie. Machine guns? Umm no way THOSE are for hunting. Don't need THAT kinda firepower for a fuckin bird, or deer or whatever. THOSE are for killing.
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
SOME guns are for hunting....Rifles, handguns and the like....but assault type weapons...ie. Machine guns? Umm no way THOSE are for hunting. Don't need THAT kinda firepower for a fuckin bird, or deer or whatever. THOSE are for killing.
One might even argue that hunting IS killing. Just sayin'....
For the record, I did not make up the list. I could give two shits if Obama did drugs. I sure as hell used to and so did many many others who are in office.
I do have a problem with giving Legal American privileges to Illegal Aliens. To hell with that shit.
I don't think we should take out "Under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.
And I think we should be able to put up a fucking Christmas tree in the town hall if we fucking want to. and if their is a Santa and a manger.....So the fuck what?
Get em a Body Bag Yeeeeeaaaaa!
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
One might even argue that hunting IS killing. Just sayin'....
I agree with you on that one...very good point.
Accoustic.
I think that giving an immigrant a drivers license is a good thing as it will give them more options to get a job (they can apply at further away places) so they can BECOME LEGAL.
I don't like the idea of giving welfare to someone who just arrived here..well unless they are a refugee and it was leave or die. I will never say I'd rather someone die then give some of my money to lend a hand.
BUT those coming over here looking for a better life but not in danger in their homeland...thats totally different. I feel they should have a job lined up and a little bit of money in their pockets...don't come here expecting US to support YOU.
Sadly though I think they can get welfare in my country. Not 100% sure though.
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
I think that giving an immigrant a drivers license is a good thing as it will give them more options to get a job (they can apply at further away places) so they can BECOME LEGAL.
I think it's a good idea so they can get car insurance. That's just in the best interest of everyone.
For the record, I did not make up the list. I could give two shits if Obama did drugs. I sure as hell used to and so did many many others who are in office.
I do have a problem with giving Legal American privileges to Illegal Aliens. To hell with that shit.
I don't think we should take out "Under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.
And I think we should be able to put up a fucking Christmas tree in the town hall if we fucking want to. and if their is a Santa and a manger.....So the fuck what?
Fair enough. Each to his own. For me, those would be the least of my worries and pale in insignificance to the real issues.
I think it's a good idea so they can get car insurance. That's just in the best interest of everyone.
How is it hurting anyone if they do get car insurance?? I'm sure insurance companies charge a MUCH higher premium to them then they would an American citizen.
THEY would be paying for the insurance not YOU. Then again maybe I'm missing something.
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
Obama supporters, please let me know if these are true or false.
Just Some of What Defines Barack Obama:
· He voted for partial birth abortion.
· He voted no on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions.
· Supports affirmative action in Colleges and Government (quotas)..
· In 2001 he questioned harsh penalties for drug dealing as being too severe.
· Says he will deal with street level drug dealing as minimum wage affair.
· Admitted his use of marijuana and cocaine in20high school and in college.
· His religious convictions are very murky.
· He is willing to meet with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jung Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
· Has said that one of his first goals after being elected would be to have a conference with Muslim nations. Why?
· Opposed the Patriot Act.
· First bill he signed that was ever passed was campaign finance reform.
· Voted to allow law suits against gun manufacturers.
· Supports universal health-care.
· Voted yes on providing habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees.
· Supports granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.
· Supports extending welfare to illegal immigrants.
· Voted yes on compre hensive immigration reform.
· Voted yes on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.
· Wants to make the minimum wage a 'living wage'.
· Voted with Democratic Party 96 percent of 251 votes. (241 votes Demo, 10 votes Republican)
· Is a big believer in the separation of church and state.
· Opposed to any efforts to Privatize Social Security and instead supports increasing the amount of tax paid into Soc. Sec. Tax Increase.
· He voted No on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax which now hits middle income brackets. Tax Increase.
· He voted No on repealing the 'Death' Tax. Tax Increase.
· He wants to raise the Capital Gains Tax. Tax Increase.
· Has repeatedly said the surge in Iraq has not succeeded...which is not true.
...
If you are REALLY interested in finding out the actual truth on his voting record... go here: http://obama.senate.gov/votes/
Well...maybe you should care and learn about this one....this is saying if you get an abortion and for some reason the child SURVIVES the abortion and is born alive......he approves for you are allowed to kill the child....no wait, I am sorry...you are allowed to abort it...fucking disgusting
So you honestly think banning abortion will STOP women from having them? That is what blows my mind about the pro life opinion. Before abortion was legal, women had them ALL the time and many of THEM died in the process. People really need to open their eyes when it comes to these issues. Let's force the poorest women to raise kids they don't want. God forbid we give them welfare or health care either. So lame.
Well...maybe you should care and learn about this one....this is saying if you get an abortion and for some reason the child SURVIVES the abortion and is born alive......he approves for you are allowed to kill the child....no wait, I am sorry...you are allowed to abort it...fucking disgusting
and this needs to be decided by the doctors and parents not some freakin legistlature or idiotic morality.
How is it hurting anyone if they do get car insurance?? I'm sure insurance companies charge a MUCH higher premium to them then they would an American citizen.
THEY would be paying for the insurance not YOU. Then again maybe I'm missing something.
I'm saying I think they SHOULD be able to get driver's licenses, particularly because you have to have a driver's license to get car insurance, and they SHOULD have car insurance for the same reason we're all required to have car insurance - to protect the other people with whom we share the roads. So I think immigrants having driver's licenses and car insurance is good for everyone.
I'm saying I think they SHOULD be able to get driver's licenses, particularly because you have to have a driver's license to get car insurance, and they SHOULD have car insurance for the same reason we're all required to have car insurance - to protect the other people with whom we share the roads. So I think immigrants having driver's licenses and car insurance is good for everyone.
I'm sorry Scb...I thought you were being sarcastic in that post which is why I replied. I apologize.
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
Well...maybe you should care and learn about this one....this is saying if you get an abortion and for some reason the child SURVIVES the abortion and is born alive......he approves for you are allowed to kill the child....no wait, I am sorry...you are allowed to abort it...fucking disgusting
A partial birth abortion is when the baby is pulled almost out, and the abortionist sucks the child's brain out.
I'm sorry Scb...I thought you were being sarcastic in that post which is why I replied. I apologize.
No problem. I should have been more clear.
I live in New Mexico, where we have an extremely high population of undocumented immigrants. There are a lot of people driving around without car insurance, so that was a major issue in the discussion about driver's licenses for immigrants.
I live in New Mexico, where we have an extremely high population of undocumented immigrants. There are a lot of people driving around without car insurance, so that was a major issue in the discussion about driver's licenses for immigrants.
Sounds like we agree on immigration issues.
Ohh I didn't know that (Re: that many people driving without insurance)...that sux...and ya looks like we do agree
"Rock and roll is something that can't be quantified, sometimes it's not even something you hear, but FEEL!" - Bob Lefsetz
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
Well...maybe you should care and learn about this one....this is saying if you get an abortion and for some reason the child SURVIVES the abortion and is born alive......he approves for you are allowed to kill the child....no wait, I am sorry...you are allowed to abort it...fucking disgusting
This doesn't make any sense, If you have an abortion the child isn't going to survive unless you know of a case one did?
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Don't worry I know this...I posted it yesterday before the fight...then the apology......a partial birth is done in the 3rd and final trimester...a time when the baby has a 98% survival rate...it has a functioning heart beat, responds to sounds and light....Obama and many other people believe it is ok to deliver this baby 80% out of the womb (deliver) jab a tube in the back of the heard and suck the brains out.....how can this be OK.....we treat criminals on death row better......the debate has always been inside the womb but this child is borm alive
Seriously, from where do you get this stuff???? Given that "partial birth abortion" is not a medical term, the language in the law is such that it applies to many abortions done in the 2nd trimester. Only 1% of abortions are done past 21 weeks anyway, so this procedure counts for less than 1% of abortions. When it is chosen, it's because the doctor feels this is the safest thing to do. This law hasn't banned 3rd trimester abortions - just this particular kind, so now they have to do less safe procedures.
It's amazing how many supposedly patriotic Americans forget why our forefathers came to this land in the first place, so they wouldn't be forced to follow one state approved religion. That's why we are supposed to have a separation of church and state, so this country wouldn't end up like the one they left. The more religious zealots try to shove their beliefs down my throat, the more I hate that religion.
EXACTLY.
and i keep hearing god brought up - again and again - by politicians. WTF?! why?! it pisses me off no end and has NO business being in a political discussion, or decision-making process. believe as you see fit, but in no way try and have your religious views impact my life or the lives of others.
Where are you getting information for when a doctor says it an abortion is needed?
Huh? If a doctor says abortion is needed or that, if the woman chooses to have an abortion, this particular kind of abortion is the safest, that information comes from the doctor - not from politicians.
and i keep hearing god brought up - again and again - by politicians. WTF?! why?! it pisses me off no end and has NO business being in a political discussion, or decision-making process. believe as you see fit, but in no way try and have your religious views impact my life or the lives of others.
It really changed when the Evangelicals took over the GOP.
Anyone catch the prayer before and after the GOP convention? It was Christ-specific. The whole time, I am thinking to myself "How is it even possible that there are Republican Jews?"
This is one of the reasons we have separation of church and state. By having government sanction one religion -- even in something like an official prayer -- you are alienating all other religions, not to mention atheists and agnostics, who have equal rights. It's a scary trend.
San Diego 10/25/00, Mountain View 6/1/03, Santa Barbara 10/28/03, Northwest School 3/18/05, San Diego 7/7/06, Los Angeles 7/9/06, 7/10/06, Honolulu (U2) 12/9/06, Santa Barbara (EV) 4/10/08, Los Angeles (EV) 4/12/08, Hartford 6/27/08, Mansfield 6/28/08, VH1 Rock Honors The Who 7/12/08, Seattle 9/21/09, Universal City 9/30/09, 10/1/09, 10/6/09, 10/7/09, San Diego 10/9/09, Los Angeles (EV) 7/8/11, Santa Barbara (EV) 7/9/11, Chicago 7/19/13, San Diego 11/21/13, Los Angeles 11/23/13, 11/24/13, Oakland 11/26/13, Chicago 8/22/16, Missoula 8/13/18, Boston 9/2/18, Los Angeles 2/25/22 (EV), San Diego 5/3/22, Los Angeles 5/6/22, 5/7/22, Imola 6/25/22, Los Angeles 5/21/24, [London 6/29/24], [Boston 9/15/24]
It really changed when the Evangelicals took over the GOP.
Anyone catch the prayer before and after the GOP convention? It was Christ-specific. The whole time, I am thinking to myself "How is it even possible that there are Republican Jews?"
This is one of the reasons we have separation of church and state. By having government sanction one religion -- even in something like an official prayer -- you are alienating all other religions, not to mention atheists and agnostics, who have equal rights. It's a scary trend.
The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life. And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe—the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God.
Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own.
The opening and closing of the inaugural address by that noted hero of the right JFK.
If a Republican ever said anything like that today they would be crucified by the media.
It really changed when the Evangelicals took over the GOP.
Anyone catch the prayer before and after the GOP convention? It was Christ-specific. The whole time, I am thinking to myself "How is it even possible that there are Republican Jews?"
This is one of the reasons we have separation of church and state. By having government sanction one religion -- even in something like an official prayer -- you are alienating all other religions, not to mention atheists and agnostics, who have equal rights. It's a scary trend.
absofuckinglutely!
and beyond wrong imho as well.
religion should have ZERO part of government. period.
i do not want to hear about your beliefs, or lack thereof...i do not want to hear mention of a god.....i certainly do NOT want to hear how our unjust war in iraq is a 'task of god' :rolleyes: as some sort of justification b/c wtf? are the iraqi's godless heathens? and even if they were, where is the right?! and what does it all say about US, as a nation....that we support and condone this seperatist agenda....? it seriously pisses me off!
so i say a big fat HELL YES to obama, or anyone being FOR the seperation of church and state! tis EXACTLY as it should be...and i would truly LOVE to see it fully enacted! keep your religion out of laws and decisions for all.
solat13 - JFK can leave his god to himself as well.
and doncha mean hero of the left?
Comments
I agree.
naděje umírá poslední
Thank you kindly. Nice to have an intelligent debate. Personally, I hear your concerns, but until legislators take much stricter action in Washington I don't see other recourse than civil suits. I used to want to overturn the 2nd Amendment, but as much as I may want to it's in our Bill of Rights; it's absolutely sacred and I feel that in these times our Constitution is the greatest thing to hold onto. I just don't think the Framers could have ever imagined high schoolers shooting up schools with Uzis, and cop-killer armor piercing bullets. If they had been able to see that, the 2nd Amendment may have been a little different. So I don't want it repealed; I just want our laws to acknowledge that we live in different times.
That is of course, besides this complete and utter douchebag. Of course, he's not Republican...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtQxyaweiYQ
SOME guns are for hunting....Rifles, handguns and the like....but assault type weapons...ie. Machine guns? Umm no way THOSE are for hunting. Don't need THAT kinda firepower for a fuckin bird, or deer or whatever. THOSE are for killing.
One might even argue that hunting IS killing. Just sayin'....
I do have a problem with giving Legal American privileges to Illegal Aliens. To hell with that shit.
I don't think we should take out "Under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.
And I think we should be able to put up a fucking Christmas tree in the town hall if we fucking want to. and if their is a Santa and a manger.....So the fuck what?
Sweep the Leg Johnny.
I agree with you on that one...very good point.
Accoustic.
I think that giving an immigrant a drivers license is a good thing as it will give them more options to get a job (they can apply at further away places) so they can BECOME LEGAL.
I don't like the idea of giving welfare to someone who just arrived here..well unless they are a refugee and it was leave or die. I will never say I'd rather someone die then give some of my money to lend a hand.
BUT those coming over here looking for a better life but not in danger in their homeland...thats totally different. I feel they should have a job lined up and a little bit of money in their pockets...don't come here expecting US to support YOU.
Sadly though I think they can get welfare in my country. Not 100% sure though.
I think it's a good idea so they can get car insurance. That's just in the best interest of everyone.
How is it hurting anyone if they do get car insurance?? I'm sure insurance companies charge a MUCH higher premium to them then they would an American citizen.
THEY would be paying for the insurance not YOU. Then again maybe I'm missing something.
If you are REALLY interested in finding out the actual truth on his voting record... go here:
http://obama.senate.gov/votes/
For the Senate...
http://www.senate.gov/
For the House Of Representatives...
http://www.house.gov/
These sites are where the facts are. Look them up.
Hail, Hail!!!
So you honestly think banning abortion will STOP women from having them? That is what blows my mind about the pro life opinion. Before abortion was legal, women had them ALL the time and many of THEM died in the process. People really need to open their eyes when it comes to these issues. Let's force the poorest women to raise kids they don't want. God forbid we give them welfare or health care either. So lame.
and this needs to be decided by the doctors and parents not some freakin legistlature or idiotic morality.
I'm saying I think they SHOULD be able to get driver's licenses, particularly because you have to have a driver's license to get car insurance, and they SHOULD have car insurance for the same reason we're all required to have car insurance - to protect the other people with whom we share the roads. So I think immigrants having driver's licenses and car insurance is good for everyone.
I'm sorry Scb...I thought you were being sarcastic in that post which is why I replied. I apologize.
A partial birth abortion is when the baby is pulled almost out, and the abortionist sucks the child's brain out.
http://777denny.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/partialbirthmurder.jpg
No problem. I should have been more clear.
I live in New Mexico, where we have an extremely high population of undocumented immigrants. There are a lot of people driving around without car insurance, so that was a major issue in the discussion about driver's licenses for immigrants.
Sounds like we agree on immigration issues.
Ohh I didn't know that (Re: that many people driving without insurance)...that sux...and ya looks like we do agree
This doesn't make any sense, If you have an abortion the child isn't going to survive unless you know of a case one did?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Yeah, cause that's what the argument is all about...please, so lame indeed.
Seriously, from where do you get this stuff???? Given that "partial birth abortion" is not a medical term, the language in the law is such that it applies to many abortions done in the 2nd trimester. Only 1% of abortions are done past 21 weeks anyway, so this procedure counts for less than 1% of abortions. When it is chosen, it's because the doctor feels this is the safest thing to do. This law hasn't banned 3rd trimester abortions - just this particular kind, so now they have to do less safe procedures.
So I guess it's okay for those babies who couldn't survive outside the womb then?
This is exactly what I wanted to say.
"He voted for partial birth abortions"
No. He didn't vote for abortion. He voted for the right to have an abortion. That's a pretty significant difference.
And that's just one example.
EXACTLY.
and i keep hearing god brought up - again and again - by politicians. WTF?! why?! it pisses me off no end and has NO business being in a political discussion, or decision-making process. believe as you see fit, but in no way try and have your religious views impact my life or the lives of others.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Huh? If a doctor says abortion is needed or that, if the woman chooses to have an abortion, this particular kind of abortion is the safest, that information comes from the doctor - not from politicians.
This ban does not just cover fetuses that are viable outside the womb. It also covers fetuses that are not viable.
It really changed when the Evangelicals took over the GOP.
Anyone catch the prayer before and after the GOP convention? It was Christ-specific. The whole time, I am thinking to myself "How is it even possible that there are Republican Jews?"
This is one of the reasons we have separation of church and state. By having government sanction one religion -- even in something like an official prayer -- you are alienating all other religions, not to mention atheists and agnostics, who have equal rights. It's a scary trend.
The world is very different now. For man holds in his mortal hands the power to abolish all forms of human poverty and all forms of human life. And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe—the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God.
Finally, whether you are citizens of America or citizens of the world, ask of us the same high standards of strength and sacrifice which we ask of you. With a good conscience our only sure reward, with history the final judge of our deeds, let us go forth to lead the land we love, asking His blessing and His help, but knowing that here on earth God's work must truly be our own.
The opening and closing of the inaugural address by that noted hero of the right JFK.
If a Republican ever said anything like that today they would be crucified by the media.
- 8/28/98
- 9/2/00
- 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
- 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
- 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
- 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
- 8/2/07, 8/5/07
- 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
- 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
- 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
- 9/11/11, 9/12/11
- 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
absofuckinglutely!
and beyond wrong imho as well.
religion should have ZERO part of government. period.
i do not want to hear about your beliefs, or lack thereof...i do not want to hear mention of a god.....i certainly do NOT want to hear how our unjust war in iraq is a 'task of god' :rolleyes: as some sort of justification b/c wtf? are the iraqi's godless heathens? and even if they were, where is the right?! and what does it all say about US, as a nation....that we support and condone this seperatist agenda....? it seriously pisses me off!
so i say a big fat HELL YES to obama, or anyone being FOR the seperation of church and state! tis EXACTLY as it should be...and i would truly LOVE to see it fully enacted! keep your religion out of laws and decisions for all.
solat13 - JFK can leave his god to himself as well.
and doncha mean hero of the left?
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow