Is it correct that Obama stands for these things?

acoustic guy

Obama supporters, please let me know if these are true or false.
Just Some of What Defines Barack Obama:

· He voted for partial birth abortion.
· He voted no on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions.
· Supports affirmative action in Colleges and Government (quotas)..
· In 2001 he questioned harsh penalties for drug dealing as being too severe.
· Says he will deal with street level drug dealing as minimum wage affair.
· Admitted his use of marijuana and cocaine in20high school and in college.
· His religious convictions are very murky.
· He is willing to meet with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jung Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
· Has said that one of his first goals after being elected would be to have a conference with Muslim nations. Why?
· Opposed the Patriot Act.
· First bill he signed that was ever passed was campaign finance reform.
· Voted to allow law suits against gun manufacturers.
· Supports universal health-care.
· Voted yes on providing habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees.
· Supports granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.
· Supports extending welfare to illegal immigrants.
· Voted yes on compre hensive immigration reform.
· Voted yes on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.
· Wants to make the minimum wage a 'living wage'.
· Voted with Democratic Party 96 percent of 251 votes. (241 votes Demo, 10 votes Republican)
· Is a big believer in the separation of church and state.
· Opposed to any efforts to Privatize Social Security and instead supports increasing the amount of tax paid into Soc. Sec. Tax Increase.
· He voted No on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax which now hits middle income brackets. Tax Increase.
· He voted No on repealing the 'Death' Tax. Tax Increase.
· He wants to raise the Capital Gains Tax. Tax Increase.
· Has repeatedly said the surge in Iraq has not succeeded...which is not true.

blackredyellow

A lot of those are totally out of context and worded with such bias, or just plain false.

And these ones below, I can't comprehend how they could be viewed as negatives....

acoustic guy wrote:

· He is willing to meet with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jung Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
· Has said that one of his first goals after being elected would be to have a conference with Muslim nations. Why?
· Opposed the Patriot Act.
· Voted yes on providing habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees.
· Is a big believer in the separation of church and state.

cincybearcat

acoustic guy wrote:

Obama supporters, please let me know if these are true or false.
Just Some of What Defines Barack Obama:

· He voted for partial birth abortion.
· He voted no on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions.
· Supports affirmative action in Colleges and Government (quotas)..
· In 2001 he questioned harsh penalties for drug dealing as being too severe.
· Says he will deal with street level drug dealing as minimum wage affair.
· Admitted his use of marijuana and cocaine in20high school and in college.
· His religious convictions are very murky.
· He is willing to meet with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jung Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
· Has said that one of his first goals after being elected would be to have a conference with Muslim nations. Why?
· Opposed the Patriot Act.
· First bill he signed that was ever passed was campaign finance reform.
· Voted to allow law suits against gun manufacturers.
· Supports universal health-care.
· Voted yes on providing habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees.
· Supports granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.
· Supports extending welfare to illegal immigrants.
· Voted yes on compre hensive immigration reform.
· Voted yes on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.
· Wants to make the minimum wage a 'living wage'.
· Voted with Democratic Party 96 percent of 251 votes. (241 votes Demo, 10 votes Republican)
· Is a big believer in the separation of church and state.
· Opposed to any efforts to Privatize Social Security and instead supports increasing the amount of tax paid into Soc. Sec. Tax Increase.
· He voted No on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax which now hits middle income brackets. Tax Increase.
· He voted No on repealing the 'Death' Tax. Tax Increase.
· He wants to raise the Capital Gains Tax. Tax Increase.
· Has repeatedly said the surge in Iraq has not succeeded...which is not true.

Well, I'm not an avid Obama supporter, but I'm thinking of voting for him so here's my input on these:

1) I'm anti-abortion...so I dislike his position here and find it absoultely wrong.
2) Same as #1
3) Am against quots for colleges and see most afirmative action as reverse discrimination tactics.
4) I think the way wew are handling the drug situation now is not working, so I welcome some fresh ideas
5) Same as #4
6) I don't care.
7) I don't care...and I find this statement close to being very offensive to many.
8) I think teh American president should be willing to meet with these people, I think it's important...if not met with them in person, at least maintain contact via the telephone.
9) One of the biggest issues in the world is the animosity between religions and countries of different religions...I think it would be good to open a dialogue.
10) I'm opposed to some of the Patriot Act...
11) DOn't care.
12) Terrible idea, passing the buck from the idiots to the innocent.
13) Another poor idea, while in theory it's grand, it's not right to take from some to pay for all...when not everyone contributes.
14) Again, don't agree with him
15) I disagree with him a lot on Illegal Immigration, he must have a different definition for the word "ILLEGAL" than I do.
16) SEE #15
17) I agree we need comprehensive reform...we need to start enforcing the law.
18) See #15
19) What does that mean "Livable Wage"??? Who decides that. I'm for th emarket determing the pay scale.
20) That is disturbing partisan polotics for a person of "Change" isn;t it? Seems like more of the same to me.
21) I agree.
22) I disagree 100%, he's wrong on this, but then again, the repubs never got it done when they had the chance.
23) Taxes...I hate 'em...I'm for a Flat Tax...so I am against him on this one.
24-25) see #23
26) The surge has suceeded...it was the crap before that got us into the mess we're in.

meistereder

blackredyellow wrote:

A lot of those are totally out of context and worded with such bias, or just plain false.

And these ones below, I can't comprehend how they could be viewed as negatives....

Actually, many more than that should be listed, if you eliminate the bias in the original list.

What? He wants separation of church and state? Oh no.

I guess some people want to re-write the constitution.

Strangest Tribe

Stupid thread....

is there anything of substance here that should worry me, I don't see it.

catch22

acoustic guy wrote:

· He voted for partial birth abortion.

dont know, don't care.

acoustic guy wrote:

· He voted no on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions.

thank god. in-state ones too, i hope.

acoustic guy wrote:

· Supports affirmative action in Colleges and Government (quotas)..

there is no such thing as quotas. there never has been. i know what you're referring to and it is nothing remotely like a quota.

acoustic guy wrote:

· In 2001 he questioned harsh penalties for drug dealing as being too severe.

i agree.

acoustic guy wrote:

· Says he will deal with street level drug dealing as minimum wage affair.

huh? minimum wage affair?

acoustic guy wrote:

· Admitted his use of marijuana and cocaine in20high school and in college.

so did dubya, bill clinton, and many others. i don't care, as long as he's not using now.

acoustic guy wrote:

· His religious convictions are very murky.

no, they're not. he has confronted this openly. but rednecks might have trouble letting go of their osama-obama inbred thinking. what's your excuse?

acoustic guy wrote:

· He is willing to meet with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jung Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

probably. somebody should. ignoring them won't make them go away.

acoustic guy wrote:

· Has said that one of his first goals after being elected would be to have a conference with Muslim nations. Why?

i assume to ask them to stop killing people.

acoustic guy wrote:

· Opposed the Patriot Act.

anyone who supports it is a fool.

acoustic guy wrote:

· First bill he signed that was ever passed was campaign finance reform.

i hadn't heard that, but i hope so. we need it. bad.

acoustic guy wrote:

· Voted to allow law suits against gun manufacturers.

hadn't heard that. i say why not? nobody is going to win them anyway.

acoustic guy wrote:

· Supports universal health-care.

i'm willing to consider it if he can present a real plan.

acoustic guy wrote:

· Voted yes on providing habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees.

absolutely a good idea. it's disgusting that we do this to people and goes against everything this country stands for.

acoustic guy wrote:

· Supports granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

so what?

acoustic guy wrote:

· Supports extending welfare to illegal immigrants.

bad idea, but i don't believe he said that.

acoustic guy wrote:

· Voted yes on comprehensive immigration reform.

why shouldn't he? you think our system is working now? hell, don't you use illegal immigrant labor... or at least cheap young russian girls? how much of a cut do you take when they make extra money in the alley behind your business?

acoustic guy wrote:

· Voted yes on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.

have never heard this and as far as i know this has never been put to vote.

acoustic guy wrote:

· Wants to make the minimum wage a 'living wage'.

good idea, bad time for it. i think he's dropped it.

acoustic guy wrote:

· Voted with Democratic Party 96 percent of 251 votes. (241 votes Demo, 10 votes Republican)

good point, republican policy did us a lot of favors the last 8 years.

acoustic guy wrote:

· Is a big believer in the separation of church and state.

so am i. so are most people whose parents weren't related.

acoustic guy wrote:

· Opposed to any efforts to Privatize Social Security and instead supports increasing the amount of tax paid into Soc. Sec. Tax Increase.

yes for the first, no for the second. either social security is a failure or we stick with it. privatizing it is nonsense. the last few months have shown that private firms don't know how to invest any better than anyone else.

acoustic guy wrote:

· He voted No on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax which now hits middle income brackets. Tax Increase.

don't know if he did or not.

acoustic guy wrote:

· He voted No on repealing the 'Death' Tax. Tax Increase.

don't know again whether or not he did. it's not a deal breaker for me. there are a lot more things i'm worried about these days than money.

acoustic guy wrote:

· He wants to raise the Capital Gains Tax. Tax Increase.

more power to him. fuck capital gains and fuck stockbrokers and fuck the stock market and fuck all those imaginary money-laundering bean counters that have fucked this country's economy beyond repair.

acoustic guy wrote:

· Has repeatedly said the surge in Iraq has not succeeded...which is not true.

actually, he explicitly said it has worked far better than he ever expected. kudos for him for being willing to listen to the other side and admit when they have good ideas instead of shouting them down as unpatriotic.

Wobbie

That list is fucking awesome!!! Thank you!

I guess "drill, baby, drill" is enough for you to decide.

"Original Mavericks," my ass.

digster

As far as I understand it, I've answered these questions.

+ He voted for partial birth abortion.
Yes, I believe so. He voted against a ban on partial birth abortion in the Illinois State Senate; he and other Democratic senators were convinced that the legislation was worded as an opening to enact a wider ban on abortion in practice.

+ He voted no on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions.
No idea.

+ Supports affirmative action in Colleges and Government (quotas)..
Voted for it in the past. He has mentioned many times that as president he will try to move the quotas of higher education and jobs away from being based solely on race to being based on class/income.

+ In 2001 he questioned harsh penalties for drug dealing as being too severe.
+ Says he will deal with street level drug dealing as minimum wage affair.
Don't know either of these.

+ Admitted his use of marijuana and cocaine in20high school and in college.
Yes, he has.

+ His religious convictions are very murky.
No, this is not true. He has been a Christian for decades.

+ He is willing to meet with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jung Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
He has said he is open to diplomacy without preconditions, that the President of the United States should not feel intimidated by speaking with neither friend nor foe. I'd imagine that it would be awhile, and much lower diplomatic back-and-forth, before you'd ever see Obama in a room between any of these leaders.

+ Has said that one of his first goals after being elected would be to have a conference with Muslim nations. Why?
Haven't heard this anywhere. And you're asking us to clarify points; why ask why? Some of these points seem like there is an agenda.

+ Opposed the Patriot Act.
Not true. The Patriot Act was first passed before Obama took office, and Obama has often spoken out against some aspects of the Patriot Act. However, he does not believe it is all bad, and voted for it again in 2006 when it came up to be ratified once more. He voted for it while voting out some of the more flagrant civil liberties violations inherent in the first one.

+ First bill he signed that was ever passed was campaign finance reform.
I believe his first major bill in the U.S. Senate involved campaign finance reform, although his bill regarding weapons stockpiles may have been first. Also, he sponsored ethics reform in the Illinois State Senate, but I don't believe that was the first thing he did there.

+ Voted to allow law suits against gun manufacturers.
Don't know. Probably.

+ Supports universal health-care.
Supports making health care affordable for all, and will require unviersal health care for children. He wants to create a government program that would allow the uninsured to have health care but would not force people happy with their private health care to give it up.

+ Voted yes on providing habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees.
+ Supports granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.
+ Supports extending welfare to illegal immigrants.
+ Voted yes on compre hensive immigration reform.
+ Voted yes on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.
+ Wants to make the minimum wage a 'living wage'.
All of these are true.

+ Voted with Democratic Party 96 percent of 251 votes. (241 votes Demo, 10 votes Republican)
He tends to vote Democrat, obviously, but that number seems a bit high. I don't have a number exactly, but that's probably pretty close.

+ Is a big believer in the separation of church and state.
Yep, seems that way, although he supports awarding faith-based services and non-profits with government assistance.

+ Opposed to any efforts to Privatize Social Security and instead supports increasing the amount of tax paid into Soc. Sec. Tax Increase.
He is opposed to privatizing social security; he does not want the savings to be at the whims of the ups and downs of the stock market. He supports increasing the amount of tax paid into the Social Security fund, but like the rest of his plan it does not apply to 95% of the population, i.e. those making under 250,000.

+ He voted No on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax which now hits middle income brackets. Tax Increase.
+ He voted No on repealing the 'Death' Tax. Tax Increase.
+ He wants to raise the Capital Gains Tax. Tax Increase.
Yes on all those.

+ Has repeatedly said the surge in Iraq has not succeeded...which is not true.
He has said the surge has worked militarily, and originally he said it would not work at all, which he now says it has. However, the political reconciliation and stability that the surge was supposted to foster to enhance and enable the Iraqi government to have self-governance of their country has not occurred swiftly or substantially enough.

Nevermind

acoustic guy wrote:

Obama supporters, please let me know if these are true or false.
Just Some of What Defines Barack Obama:

· In 2001 he questioned harsh penalties for drug dealing as being too severe.
· Says he will deal with street level drug dealing as minimum wage affair.
· Admitted his use of marijuana and cocaine in20high school and in college.
· He is willing to meet with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jung Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
· Has said that one of his first goals after being elected would be to have a conference with Muslim nations. Why?
· Opposed the Patriot Act.
· Voted yes on providing habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees.
· Voted yes on compre hensive immigration reform.
· Wants to make the minimum wage a 'living wage'.
· Is a big believer in the separation of church and state.
· Has repeatedly said the surge in Iraq has not succeeded...which is not true.

I didnt think Id agree with him that much.

meistereder

I can't get over the fact that separation of church and state is an issue. You may as well criticize Obama for supporting checks and balances, or for opposing unlawful searches and seizures.

blackredyellow

catch22 wrote:

so am i. so are most people whose parents weren't related.

Thanks... that actually made me laugh.

MrBrian

Yeah Obama voted for the PATRIOT Act Reauthorization, you know, the diet patriot act, less sugar but still gonna fuck your teeth up.

NeilJam

meistereder wrote:

I can't get over the fact that separation of church and state is an issue. You may as well criticize Obama for supporting checks and balances, or for opposing unlawful searches and seizures.

It's amazing how many supposedly patriotic Americans forget why our forefathers came to this land in the first place, so they wouldn't be forced to follow one state approved religion. That's why we are supposed to have a separation of church and state, so this country wouldn't end up like the one they left. The more religious zealots try to shove their beliefs down my throat, the more I hate that religion.

Brain of J.Lo

You owe it to yourself, but mostly to your daughter, to not base your decision on biased language from an email forward (or wherever you came up with that list).

Brain of J.Lo

PEPPER wrote:

Well...maybe you should care and learn about this one....this is saying if you get an abortion and for some reason the child SURVIVES the abortion and is born alive......he approves for you are allowed to kill the child....no wait, I am sorry...you are allowed to abort it...fucking disgusting

Maybe you could adopt all of those babies. And all the other kids who need families!

jimed14

PEPPER wrote:

Well...maybe you should care and learn about this one....this is saying if you get an abortion and for some reason the child SURVIVES the abortion and is born alive......he approves for you are allowed to kill the child....no wait, I am sorry...you are allowed to abort it...fucking disgusting

Just so we remove the slant, he doesn't approve of the killing of babies, he approves that the decision is up to the mother and the doctor ...


Issue: Trust women to make own decisions on partial-birth abortion

Q: What us your view on the decision on partial-birth abortion and your reaction to most of the public agreeing with the court's holding?

A: I think that most Americans recognize that this is a profoundly difficult issue for the women and families who make these decisions. They don't make them casually. And I trust women to make these decisions in conjunction with their doctors and their families and their clergy. And I think that's where most Americans are. Now, when you describe a specific procedure that accounts for less than 1% of the abortions that take place, then naturally, people get concerned, and I think legitimately so. But the broader issue here is: Do women have the right to make these profoundly difficult decisions? And I trust them to do it. There is a broader issue: Can we move past some of the debates around which we disagree and can we start talking about the things we do agree on? Reducing teen pregnancy; making it less likely for women to find themselves in these circumstances.

Source: 2007 South Carolina Democratic primary debate, on MSNBC Apr 26, 2007

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm


I am pro-choice, but I am not pro-abortion ... these are two different things.

_

PEPPER wrote:

Well...maybe you should care and learn about this one....this is saying if you get an abortion and for some reason the child SURVIVES the abortion and is born alive......he approves for you are allowed to kill the child....no wait, I am sorry...you are allowed to abort it...fucking disgusting

That's not at all what it says. Maybe you should learn about this one.

meistereder

PEPPER wrote:

That is not all...NOT ALL...the kid beat one attempt at an abortion and lives.....so once he is born the kid can be killed....that is all....now that is FUCKING MURDER....

and you maybe I should adopt the child...lot better alternative then killing it

Throwing around the word murder means nothing to people who think. You may as well say that soldiers killing another person in battle is murder. Hint: that's not murder either.

_

PEPPER wrote:

That is not all...NOT ALL...the kid beat one attempt at an abortion and lives.....so once he is born the kid can be killed....that is all....now that is FUCKING MURDER....what else is there to learn...murder is murder no matter if you are an atheist or a religious person

What are you talking about? This law does NOT say anything about killing children who survived abortion, or killing any other children who have already been born. I've never even heard anyone who supports the ban say this before.

rebornFixer

Some of these ideas are inane (e.g., lawsuits against gun makers) ... Some of them are perhaps not inane but still pretty bad (e.g., affirmative action). Some are good (e.g., a big believer in the separation of church and state) ... Some are decent, if fleshed out more and worked into something tenable (e.g., meeting with El Assholio ... I mean, Hugo Chavez).
Sounds like a pretty standard broad-spectrum politician to me.

Abuskedti

blackredyellow wrote:

A lot of those are totally out of context and worded with such bias, or just plain false.

And these ones below, I can't comprehend how they could be viewed as negatives....

very good response