I think Rev. Wright went too far in saying "God damn America!" but other than that I'm not troubled by anything he's said, not that I agree with all of it. I think Obama properly distanced himself from such unhelpful rage (which no one would have accused him of harboring to begin with).
full disclosure:
i think Obama is the best candidate who stands a chance and I hope he wins. although, i am skeptical of his Iraq policy, i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
There is still no proof that every sermon the guy gave was racist/politically charged. I've read several that weren't. But if you need to buy into the 2 dimensional version that the media peddles, have fun, I know its nice to not to have to think for yourself.
My point wasn't based on every sermon of his was racially charged.
Oh now I don't think for myself because I think there's room for discussion on this issue? Yeah, you know me...always having to be told what to think next. :rolleyes:
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I never said that there wasn't room for discussion, I just didn't hear you acknowledge that there was more to Rev Wright than the media was portraying. The language you used certainly suggested otherwise.
My point wasn't based on every sermon of his was racially charged.
Oh now I don't think for myself because I think there's room for discussion on this issue? Yeah, you know me...always having to be told what to think next. :rolleyes:
Well, if he made these comments 3 times in 15 years and I wasn't there...then maybe I'd still hang out and hear what my brother had to say.
Ok, but hanging out is not the same as going to one for spiritual guidance and it is not answering whether or not you'd confront your brother about his divisive remarks.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I never said that there wasn't room for discussion, I just didn't hear you acknowledge that there was more to Rev Wright than the media was portraying. The language you used certainly suggested otherwise.
I was only referring to the comments he made that are in question here because those were the ones that brought on the concern.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I'm just curious, do you belong to an organized faith? As a Christian I often like to talk about theology with fellow Christian. Theres a friend of mine who teaches seminary classes and is really informative in terms of providing context to certain scriptures, etc. I guess you could technically qualify this as spiritual advice. This guy also happens to be about a mile right of me. Our views on politics, art and many theological concepts are pretty incongruous but I find his knowledge valuable. Its entirely possible the Obama/Wright relationship is similar to this.
Ok, but hanging out is not the same as going to one for spiritual guidance and it is not answering whether or not you'd confront your brother about his divisive remarks.
Do you go to listen to your brother give guidance weekly? Or would you speak up and say that what he said was wrong and distance yourself from his rantings?
That pretty much sounds like you're inferring that Rev Wright was saying offensive things every week.
Ok, but hanging out is not the same as going to one for spiritual guidance and it is not answering whether or not you'd confront your brother about his divisive remarks.
Well, Obama has publicly stated that he has confronted his pastor over the year about things he didn't believe in. That was on CNN just a day or two ago. And yes, if my brother was talking shit I'd call him out too...just like Obama did.
Then again, most people that go to church are there for religion and not politics. Is it not possible that Obama was there for the religion and not the politics...
Sure, he could have said "This guy (who happens to be a livelong friend) is a nut and I'm going down the street to another church...in those 3 times in 15 years he said crazy things vs. leaving a lifelong friend who preaches the religion he believes in but throws in a political comment every 5 years.
Wow...I'm sold.
I'm just curious, do you belong to an organized faith? As a Christian I often like to talk about theology with fellow Christian. Theres a friend of mine who teaches seminary classes and is really informative in terms of providing context to certain scriptures, etc. I guess you could technically qualify this as spiritual advice. This guy also happens to be about a mile right of me. Our views on politics, art and many theological concepts are pretty incongruous but I find his knowledge valuable. Its entirely possible the Obama/Wright relationship is similar to this.
That's not the point. If someone i was seeking spiritual advice from made some racially divisive remarks to the whole congregation, I would feel the urge to say it was wrong and I don't know if I would trust that kind of person to be the kind of person I'd want giving me any kind of advice. His remarks were extremely paranoid and racist towards white people. It points to what kind of state of mind the guy has to me.
Again, I'm not saying this is a huge issue, but I don't think many of you would be ok going to your same church if your pastor had said similiar remarks about black people.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
That pretty much sounds like you're inferring that Rev Wright was saying offensive things every week.
If it did, it wasn't intentional. I'm well aware he didn't say these kind of things every week. But just the few times would have bothered me...maybe it's because I'm such an idealist, I don't know. But it would have bothered the shit out of me. I can't stand when people pit races against each other instead of addressing the real problem of the elite and powerful against the rest of us.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
so now people are alseep or tricked because they want to vote for the most progressive viable candidate in US presidential history :rolleyes:
Progressive in sound economic solutions?
Starting at the common denominator....what parts am I missing?
Did I miss his ongoing economics speeches and proposals?
maybe I could get some links on the financial plans he's got cooking...
Sadly the issue is what a lot of people deem viable...
John Wayne for president...big large shiny words win elections...plan? meh...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
"How much play would this be getting, and how much shit would be flung at 'paultards' if this were Ron Paul, and this guy was with Ron Paul's church & campaign?"
The double standard held by Obamorons is ridiculous.
:cool:
Is it because he is black?
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Oh cool, a self proclaimed Obama officianado (apparently)
I was asking for information on Obama's economic plan. I haven't seen it.
Any info to offer?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Yeah, when other members of the congregation were asked how many times he made these types of comments it could be counted on 3 fingers in 15 years...and those 3 times Obama wasn't even there.
It doesn't matter how many times. I'll tell you, if I went to a church and the preacher said something offensive like "You know, I think all black people should be put to death" just once -- I guarantee you it would be the last time I went there.
And, you're wrong about Obama not being there. He admitted in his big, glorious "I Have a Dream" speech the other day that he was there.
How people can call this a non-issue is beyond me. Going to a particular church is voluntary. If you go to a church and continue to go to a church, it means you believe what is being espoused there. Period. Otherwise, most rational people would leave and never come back.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
It doesn't matter how many times. I'll tell you, if I went to a church and the preacher said something offensive like "You know, I think all black people should be put to death" just once -- I guarantee you it would be the last time I went there.
The stuff that Wright said (and it's most likely the worst stuff he's said, or we'd be hearing more) doesn't come anywhere close to this.
So he's angry at whitey? He's a near 70 year old, fiery black man who lived through segregation, fire-hoses, and second class citizenship. I'm angry at that past, myself. And it's not like this stain has been completely washed away.
The stuff that Wright said (and it's most likely the worst stuff he's said, or we'd be hearing more) doesn't come anywhere close to this.
So he's angry at whitey? He's a near 70 year old, fiery black man who lived through segregation, fire-hoses, and second class citizenship. I'm angry at that past, myself. And it's not like this stain has been completely washed away.
Did you happen to see Geraldine Ferraro's comment yesterday about Reverend Wright being a racist bigot encouraging kids and young adults to go out and "beat up on white people"?
Wtf? He didn't say anything like that.
Imagine that. A 70 year old black guy in America without amnesia. i guess blacks are just supposed to take their medicine and not comment on the taste.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
The stuff that Wright said (and it's most likely the worst stuff he's said, or we'd be hearing more) doesn't come anywhere close to this.
So he's angry at whitey? He's a near 70 year old, fiery black man who lived through segregation, fire-hoses, and second class citizenship. I'm angry at that past, myself. And it's not like this stain has been completely washed away.
Well, you're right, but I was just making a point.
The government infected blacks with AIDS?
The government is selling drugs to the black community?
It's nutso (which, I know, plays well on this board).
If your pastor says something completely outrageous and off the wall -- and Obama (apparently) was offended by it, if you take his Philly speech at face value -- you leave the church. I don't know a single person who wouldn't.
Between that and his America-hating wife, it's easy to see how one can start to have doubts about what Obama, in fact, believes. He is beginning to look to me a lot like a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Now, I will admit that, perhaps if I was in love with the guy in the first place, this stuff wouldn't seem as big an issue. I wasn't going to vote for him before this. This kind of stuff just fortifies my decision.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Imagine that. A 70 year old black guy in America without amnesia. i guess blacks are just supposed to take their medicine and not comment on the taste.
I understand that. Race relations in this country are indeed a stain on our national history.
But at what point are we white folks who did not own slaves, did not force blacks to eat at separate lunch counters and did not beat them with rubber hoses supposed to stop feeling guilty?
Right now, we've got a black guy named Barack Obama poised to become president of the United States. We've got a black woman in one of the nation's highest offices of power. Rev. Wright of all people should recognize how far we've come in this nation. But instead he harps on the negatives of the past. It isn't helpful. It's hurtful.
And don't get me started on his conspiracy theories. That's the most flabbergasting part of all of this, to me.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
some of what he has said is the truth...that's why it bothers so many people.
this guy has some balls to say what he said 5 days after 9/11....while the rest of the country was curled up in a ball sucking their thumbs (including our clueless leaders) this guy was telling it like it is.
Telling it like it is?
Give me a fucking break.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Well, you're right, but I was just making a point.
The government infected blacks with AIDS?
The government is selling drugs to the black community?
It's nutso (which, I know, plays well on this board).
If your pastor says something completely outrageous and off the wall -- and Obama (apparently) was offended by it, if you take his Philly speech at face value -- you leave the church. I don't know a single person who wouldn't.
Between that and his America-hating wife, it's easy to see how one can start to have doubts about what Obama, in fact, believes. He is beginning to look to me a lot like a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Now, I will admit that, perhaps if I was in love with the guy in the first place, this stuff wouldn't seem as big an issue. I wasn't going to vote for him before this. This kind of stuff just fortifies my decision.
This post is a broad generalization of people you don't agree with, with an inaccurate portrayal of a specific person married to a guy you wouldn't vote for no matter what church he attended. Ironic, ain't it?
This post is a broad generalization of people you don't agree with, with an inaccurate portrayal of a specific person married to a guy you wouldn't vote for no matter what church he attended. Ironic, ain't it?
Ironic? No, not really.
Please don't confuse me with some Rush Limbaugh worshiping neo-con. I just have serious questions about Obama, and had them before this stuff came to light. This stuff just re-iterates nagging doubts I've had about him all along.
I think that's fair. This is America. I'm allowed to have qualms with people running for office, just as Obamamaniacs are allowed to have qualms about Hillary and then McCain.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
oh, and his wife is not an america hater. she said a stupid thing, especially in an election, but to call her an "america hater" just shows your ignorance.
how do you know she's not?
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Please don't confuse me with some Rush Limbaugh worshiping neo-con. I just have serious questions about Obama, and had them before this stuff came to light. This stuff just re-iterates nagging doubts I've had about him all along.
I think that's fair. This is America. I'm allowed to have qualms with people running for office, just as Obamamaniacs are allowed to have qualms about Hillary and then McCain.
There you go, generalizing me now. I didn't confuse you with a Rush Limbaugh neo-con. I took your post at face value.
And I find it quite ironic to be angry about a preacher's generalizations and express it by making generalizations of your own.
Comments
full disclosure:
i think Obama is the best candidate who stands a chance and I hope he wins. although, i am skeptical of his Iraq policy, i'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
My point wasn't based on every sermon of his was racially charged.
Oh now I don't think for myself because I think there's room for discussion on this issue? Yeah, you know me...always having to be told what to think next. :rolleyes:
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Ok, but hanging out is not the same as going to one for spiritual guidance and it is not answering whether or not you'd confront your brother about his divisive remarks.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I was only referring to the comments he made that are in question here because those were the ones that brought on the concern.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
That pretty much sounds like you're inferring that Rev Wright was saying offensive things every week.
Well, Obama has publicly stated that he has confronted his pastor over the year about things he didn't believe in. That was on CNN just a day or two ago. And yes, if my brother was talking shit I'd call him out too...just like Obama did.
Then again, most people that go to church are there for religion and not politics. Is it not possible that Obama was there for the religion and not the politics...
Sure, he could have said "This guy (who happens to be a livelong friend) is a nut and I'm going down the street to another church...in those 3 times in 15 years he said crazy things vs. leaving a lifelong friend who preaches the religion he believes in but throws in a political comment every 5 years.
Wow...I'm sold.
That's not the point. If someone i was seeking spiritual advice from made some racially divisive remarks to the whole congregation, I would feel the urge to say it was wrong and I don't know if I would trust that kind of person to be the kind of person I'd want giving me any kind of advice. His remarks were extremely paranoid and racist towards white people. It points to what kind of state of mind the guy has to me.
Again, I'm not saying this is a huge issue, but I don't think many of you would be ok going to your same church if your pastor had said similiar remarks about black people.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If it did, it wasn't intentional. I'm well aware he didn't say these kind of things every week. But just the few times would have bothered me...maybe it's because I'm such an idealist, I don't know. But it would have bothered the shit out of me. I can't stand when people pit races against each other instead of addressing the real problem of the elite and powerful against the rest of us.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Progressive in sound economic solutions?
Starting at the common denominator....what parts am I missing?
Did I miss his ongoing economics speeches and proposals?
maybe I could get some links on the financial plans he's got cooking...
Sadly the issue is what a lot of people deem viable...
John Wayne for president...big large shiny words win elections...plan? meh...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
"How much play would this be getting, and how much shit would be flung at 'paultards' if this were Ron Paul, and this guy was with Ron Paul's church & campaign?"
The double standard held by Obamorons is ridiculous.
:cool:
Is it because he is black?
If I opened it now would you not understand?
You should do both. Then you might have a clue as to what is going on in this world.
You seem to miss a lot..... We won't miss you.
Oh cool, a self proclaimed Obama officianado (apparently)
I was asking for information on Obama's economic plan. I haven't seen it.
Any info to offer?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
What exactly has this reverend said??
It doesn't matter how many times. I'll tell you, if I went to a church and the preacher said something offensive like "You know, I think all black people should be put to death" just once -- I guarantee you it would be the last time I went there.
And, you're wrong about Obama not being there. He admitted in his big, glorious "I Have a Dream" speech the other day that he was there.
How people can call this a non-issue is beyond me. Going to a particular church is voluntary. If you go to a church and continue to go to a church, it means you believe what is being espoused there. Period. Otherwise, most rational people would leave and never come back.
for the least they could possibly do
So he's angry at whitey? He's a near 70 year old, fiery black man who lived through segregation, fire-hoses, and second class citizenship. I'm angry at that past, myself. And it's not like this stain has been completely washed away.
Did you happen to see Geraldine Ferraro's comment yesterday about Reverend Wright being a racist bigot encouraging kids and young adults to go out and "beat up on white people"?
Wtf? He didn't say anything like that.
Imagine that. A 70 year old black guy in America without amnesia. i guess blacks are just supposed to take their medicine and not comment on the taste.
Well, you're right, but I was just making a point.
The government infected blacks with AIDS?
The government is selling drugs to the black community?
It's nutso (which, I know, plays well on this board).
If your pastor says something completely outrageous and off the wall -- and Obama (apparently) was offended by it, if you take his Philly speech at face value -- you leave the church. I don't know a single person who wouldn't.
Between that and his America-hating wife, it's easy to see how one can start to have doubts about what Obama, in fact, believes. He is beginning to look to me a lot like a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Now, I will admit that, perhaps if I was in love with the guy in the first place, this stuff wouldn't seem as big an issue. I wasn't going to vote for him before this. This kind of stuff just fortifies my decision.
for the least they could possibly do
I understand that. Race relations in this country are indeed a stain on our national history.
But at what point are we white folks who did not own slaves, did not force blacks to eat at separate lunch counters and did not beat them with rubber hoses supposed to stop feeling guilty?
Right now, we've got a black guy named Barack Obama poised to become president of the United States. We've got a black woman in one of the nation's highest offices of power. Rev. Wright of all people should recognize how far we've come in this nation. But instead he harps on the negatives of the past. It isn't helpful. It's hurtful.
And don't get me started on his conspiracy theories. That's the most flabbergasting part of all of this, to me.
for the least they could possibly do
Telling it like it is?
Give me a fucking break.
for the least they could possibly do
Ironic? No, not really.
Please don't confuse me with some Rush Limbaugh worshiping neo-con. I just have serious questions about Obama, and had them before this stuff came to light. This stuff just re-iterates nagging doubts I've had about him all along.
I think that's fair. This is America. I'm allowed to have qualms with people running for office, just as Obamamaniacs are allowed to have qualms about Hillary and then McCain.
for the least they could possibly do
how do you know she's not?
for the least they could possibly do
I'm not defending Wright but to say that his entire career as a Rev. should be based on a few quotes and youtube videos is not fair.
If there was an issue with Barack I don't think Gov. Bill Richardson would of endorsed him.
We have to look at the big picture and stop playing these gotcha politics.
How do you know she is. It's a mute point. We're not electing Michelle Obama.
And I find it quite ironic to be angry about a preacher's generalizations and express it by making generalizations of your own.
Love the guy? Obamaniacs? That must be it.