Global War(m/n)ing

polaris

Obi Once wrote:

This kinda topic always gets me going. Th EU plan sounds good, also my new goverment has a goal to become the leading country in Europe in regards to clean energy and reducing CO2 exhausts, hopefully it becomes reality and not jus an underfunded plan that sounds nice during the formation persiod. And yes it seems a conscience is growing, I've been here too for years, I actually outdate this board version..

at the end of the day - if we can get industry to support it ... that is where we will make the biggest impact ...

_Crazy_Mary_

...and can you believe that Yosemite Valley was created by a glacier?!

It was about fifteen miles in length by five in breadth, and we can only blame ourselves for it melting ~ obviously the work of SUVs. :rolleyes:

Pearl Jam and toast

I agree with you on everything you're saying, i just really need to see evidence in the long term to acknowledge that this weird weather is climate change or just weird weather.

I'd have to side with you more than against you.

searchlightsoul

_Crazy_Mary_ wrote:

...and can you believe that Yosemite Valley was created by a glacier?!

It was about fifteen miles in length by five in breadth, and we can only blame ourselves for it melting ~ obviously the work of SUVs. :rolleyes:

No we can't. The glacier disapeared about 12000 years before people began burning fossil fuels

searchlightsoul

polaris wrote:

that is why many use the term climate change ... climate change will reflect the more immediate impacts while global warming refers to the long term phonemena ...

temperature is the single biggest variable related to weather patterns - by artificially warming the planet - we are affecting weather patterns ... to compensate - the planet must adjust thus giving us these extreme conditions ...

there is a significant connection ...

The chance that any given year will be differnt from the previous is 50 percent so simply comparing years is an incorrect means of establishing a difference.
You may have a correlation between C02 and temperature but that does not allow you to incorrectly state that what you see as an abrupt change is any way related. What is important when talking about climate change is the means not the outliers.

polaris

searchlightsoul wrote:

The chance that any given year will be differnt from the previous is 50 percent so simply comparing years is an incorrect means of establishing a difference.
You may have a correlation between C02 and temperature but that does not allow you to incorrectly state that what you see as an abrupt change is any way related. What is important when talking about climate change is the means not the outliers.

soo ... what you are saying is that although there may be a correlation between CO2 and temperature - by me saying there is a relationship - i am incorrect?? ...

either way ... you can say everyone is misguided, stupid or incorrect ... but you have nothing to back that up ... its simply your own opinion which throughout this thread is shown to be heavy on accusations and light on facts ...

polaris

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/172778

Landmark UN study backs climate theory


A new report concludes that most of the global warning since the middle of the last century has been caused by man-made greenhouse gases.
2,000 scientists all but end the debate: Human activity causes global warming

January 19, 2007
Peter Gorrie
Environment Writer

A major new United Nations report shows global scientists are more convinced than ever that human activity is causing climate change, the Toronto Star has learned.

The rate of warming between now and 2030 is likely to be twice that of the previous century, it says.

And it concludes that most of the global warming since the middle of the last century has been caused by man-made greenhouse gases.

The report, to be released in Paris Feb. 2, should all but end any debate on climate change and compel governments and industries to take urgent measures to deal with it, scientists say.

"It is very likely that (man-made) greenhouse gas increases caused most of the globally average temperature increases since the mid-20th century," states the report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

In the clinical language of science, it paints a stark picture of the effects of greenhouse gas emissions:

"Discernible human influences now extend to other aspects of climate, including continental average temperatures, atmospheric circulation patterns and some types of extremes."

It is "very likely that hot extremes, heat waves and heavy precipitation events will continue to become more frequent." Storm tracks will move from the tropics toward the poles.

The widely anticipated report is the fourth by the IPCC, which every few years publishes the definitive conclusions of about 2,000 scientists who are recognized as experts in their respective fields. Each one has moved closer to closing debate on the causes and effects of climate change.

The portion of the report obtained by the Star is called the final draft of the "Summary for Policy Makers."

The summary states that the warming effect of greenhouse gases increased by 20 per cent during the past decade – "the largest change observed or inferred for any decade in at least the last 200 years."

Global warming would be even greater had it not been slowed by other forms of pollution that stopped some of the sun's energy from reaching the Earth.

Rebutting one of the main arguments of climate change skeptics, it says observations of temperature increases and shrinking ice cover, "support the conclusion that it is extremely unlikely that global climate change of the past 50 years" was caused by solar flares or other natural events.

Eleven of the past 12 years have been the hottest in Earth's recent history, it says.

All the continents except Antarctica have warmed during the past half-century, with the biggest impacts in Canada's Arctic and other northern regions.

Research since the third report was released in 2001 increases the certainty about climate change and the likely scale of most of its effects, including warmer temperatures and severe weather, the report states.

One crucial prediction has been made a bit less worrying: Although sea level is rising – for now, mainly because the oceans are warming to a depth of at least 3,000 metres, and expanding – the estimates for how much it will go up have been lowered.

The summary also notes that there has been, as yet, little change in the North Atlantic Drift, the warm current that gives Britain and northern Europe a relatively temperate climate and that is expected to slow, or stop, as climate change alters the ocean.

It will slow, but not abruptly during the coming century, the report says.

For the most part, though, the conclusions point in a single direction:

"Warming of the climate system is unequivocal."

The report estimates that if the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere could be kept below 550 parts per million – which would take a major worldwide effort to cut greenhouse gas emissions – the average global temperature would rise by 2 to 4.5 degrees Celsius above the level before the Industrial Revolution started about 250 years ago.

The current carbon level is about 380 parts per million and rising steadily, compared with 280 at the time humans began burning large amounts of coal, oil and other fossil fuels.

The temperature estimate depends on which combination of computer model and research data is used.

The upper forecast is higher than in previous reports.

"Values higher than 4.5 C cannot be excluded" because of "feedbacks," such as the increased ability of the atmosphere to absorb water vapour – an extremely potent greenhouse gas – as it heats up, and the greater warmth absorbed as Arctic ice melts.

Regional forecasts of climate change effects are better than in the previous report, and they predict the greatest warming at northern latitudes and high altitudes, and the least over the North Atlantic and the southern oceans.

The north faces the biggest increase in precipitation.

searchlightsoul

Well Polaris the view you and many others hold that global warming will result in increased climatic variability is when you look at the evidence not supported. Instead duing the Mesozoic (Age of the Dinosaurs)- a period of carbon dioxide induced warming with high temperatures globally there was REDUCED seasonal variability. No incredible cyclonic events or horrofic freezing spells just stability. The evidence infact contardicts the computer models which you have thus far ued incorrectly as evidence. This is my major beef- that you use the most alarmist models which also happen to be the most unlikely, as evidence when they are only hypotheses.

searchlightsoul

polaris wrote:

do you work for an oil and gas exploration company by chance?

Just so we get this clear. No. In any case it would not change the problems with the models and your interpretation. Informed citizens are always skeptical of what they are told especially when the information has been filtered through so many sources.

Obi Once

searchlightsoul wrote:

Well Polaris the view you and many others hold that global warming will result in increased climatic variability is when you look at the evidence not supported. Instead duing the Mesozoic (Age of the Dinosaurs)- a period of carbon dioxide induced warming with high temperatures globally there was REDUCED seasonal variability. No incredible cyclonic events or horrofic freezing spells just stability. The evidence infact contardicts the computer models which you have thus far ued incorrectly as evidence. This is my major beef- that you use the most alarmist models which also happen to be the most unlikely, as evidence when they are only hypotheses.

Earlier in this thread I have posted a graph from wikipedia that shows the rise in temperature over a few decades. How can you not conclude that the factual warming, worldwide, results in climatic variablity? Sorry but imho you are blind for all the facts that are out there. I agree a skeptcial view is good, but even if you filter thru all that is written, the bottom line is we are warming this planet, water will rise, ecosystems will collapse and are already changing (can provide info), CO2 is one of the main causes and something that we add to the atmosphere.

given to grunge

Obi Once wrote:

Earlier in this thread I have posted a graph from wikipedia that shows the rise in temperature over a few decades. How can you not conclude that the factual warming, worldwide, results in climatic variablity? Sorry but imho you are blind for all the facts that are out there. I agree a skeptcial view is good, but even if you filter thru all that is written, the bottom line is we are warming this planet, water will rise, ecosystems will collapse and are already changing (can provide info), CO2 is one of the main causes and something that we add to the atmosphere.

all we can do is to start thinking in advance.
the good thing is that our awareness is on the higher level then it was 50/60 yrs ago.

if it continue like this with all of the ice melting, my hometown (Makarska) will be undre the water....and Holland is going to be flooded too!

Obi Once

given to grunge wrote:

all we can do is to start thinking in advance.
the good thing is that our awareness is on the higher level then it was 50/60 yrs ago.

if it continue like this with all of the ice melting, my hometown (Makarska) will be undre the water....and Holland is going to be flooded too!

In my view we better have a running start, because even tho some debate it, change is already becoming visable, water level is already rising and the temperature change is already affecting our eco systems. There will always be skeptics untill their land is flooded too.

given to grunge

Obi Once wrote:

In my view we better have a running start, because even tho some debate it, change is already becoming visable, water level is already rising and the temperature change is already affecting our eco systems. There will always be skeptics untill their land is flooded too.

Right!

I watched tv for a while this afternoon and stuck on a documentary about climate change.
INTERESTING-It says that, if we rely on historical indicators, our planet was going to enter into ICE AGE 6000 (six thousands) yrs ago.
Why hadn't that happened?!
Because we, the people, had an impact on clime and made the globe stay warm even tho planet is on his largest distance from the sun in 100000 (hundred thousands) yrs. These are ICE AGE intervals. (I think it is 100000 yrs, maybe longer, but I'm no specialist).
It should be ICE AGE NOW, we may say we're lucky, YES for now, but when the globe come next to the sun in next yrs it will be so hot we0ll be like french fries!

jeffbr

given to grunge wrote:

Right!

I watched tv for a while this afternoon and stuck on a documentary about climate change.
INTERESTING-It says that, if we rely on historical indicators, our planet was going to enter into ICE AGE 6000 (six thousands) yrs ago.
Why hadn't that happened?!
Because we, the people, had an impact on clime and made the globe stay warm even tho planet is on his largest distance from the sun in 100000 (hundred thousands) yrs. These are ICE AGE intervals. (I think it is 100000 yrs, maybe longer, but I'm no specialist).
It should be ICE AGE NOW, we may say we're lucky, YES for now, but when the globe come next to the sun in next yrs it will be so hot we0ll be like french fries!

So humans fucked up the cycle 6,000 years ago?? Just by burping and farting? Or were there a bunch of them spraying aerosol cans of hairspray and racing their SUVs around? And if just walking the earth and breathing causes it, what is the solution, short of holding our breath?

given to grunge

jeffbr wrote:

So humans fucked up the cycle 6,000 years ago?? Just by burping and farting? Or were there a bunch of them spraying aerosol cans of hairspray and racing their SUVs around? And if just walking the earth and breathing causes it, what is the solution, short of holding our breath?

You just gave me a good laugh!!!

Obi Once

If I remember correctly the last ice age ended 6000 yrs ago, didnt searchlightsoul write that? and this week i heard we were orbitly quite some years away from the next ice period...?

Anyhoo what did dubya say about global warming in his state of the union?

polaris

Obi Once wrote:

If I remember correctly the last ice age ended 6000 yrs ago, didnt searchlightsoul write that? and this week i heard we were orbitly quite some years away from the next ice period...?

Anyhoo what did dubya say about global warming in his state of the union?

10,000 yrs ago

given to grunge

"""""President bush has repeatedly stated that he will not adopt such protocols if they harm American economy. Commercialism and greed overcome all common sense and thought for the welfare of future generations.


source: http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/pollution.html

what a moron, America is not alone on the planet YOU IDIOT!!!

given to grunge

did anyone noticed someons effort to save Amazona?!

nobody gives a shit!


it's SAD, sad

bubbamackdaddy69

given to grunge wrote:

It's not normal! Hey?!

Kyoto conference is the one which takes care of it, but, again, America don't listen!
the large amount of gas emission is the reason for global warming!
We got to the point where even if we stop to emission gases in our atmosphere, temperature will continue to raise for next 15 yrs and PLANET will still be warmer and warmer.
In next 50 yrs water level will go up for half meter!!!

Ever hear of Global cooling as well? Ice ages...we've had them all..in the billions and billions of years the earth goes through cycles like this..