Global War(m/n)ing

given to grunge

Woke up this morning, can't believe my eyes - Yesterday it was around 0 Celsius = 32 Fahrenheit temperature in the air, and now I'm sitting on my balcony with shortsleeves t-shirt, with laptop in my hands, having a dreamview over my city of Makarska (here is the picture of it if you want to see - it's worth of seeing it(heaven on earth!)) and it's 11 celsius = 51.8 F in the air!
It IS nice NOW, BUT how will it be for our grandchildren for 50-100 years?!

Is anybody thinking of future? It is forecasted that 2007 will be the WARMEST year in all of the time since temperature is beeing measured!

Were are we exactly going?!

LikeAnOcean

Its just the weather balancing itself out. Its normal. As far as global warming, an average raise in temperature of only 3 degrees would melt the polar ice caps and flood all major coastline cities, so don't worry yet. Most people will barely notice the 3 degrees but they will notice the damage... so enjoy the really warm weather while it lasts because its either really cold someplace else or it's gonna be really cold again sometime soon..

given to grunge

LikeAnOcean wrote:

Its just the weather balancing itself out. Its normal. As far as global warming, an average raise in temperature of only 3 degrees would melt the polar ice caps and flood all major coastline cities, so don't worry yet. Most people will barely notice the 3 degrees but they will notice the damage... so enjoy the really warm weather while it lasts because its either really cold someplace else or it's gonna be really cold again sometime soon..

It's not normal! Hey?!

Kyoto conference is the one which takes care of it, but, again, America don't listen!
the large amount of gas emission is the reason for global warming!
We got to the point where even if we stop to emission gases in our atmosphere, temperature will continue to raise for next 15 yrs and PLANET will still be warmer and warmer.
In next 50 yrs water level will go up for half meter!!!

LikeAnOcean

given to grunge wrote:

It's not normal! Hey?!

Kyoto conference is the one which takes care of it, but, again, America don't listen!
the large amount of gas emission is the reason for global warming!
We got to the point where even if we stop to emission gases in our atmosphere, temperature will continue to raise for next 15 yrs and PLANET will still be warmer and warmer.
In next 50 yrs water level will go up for half meter!!!

If it were three degrees warmer than normal, would you be freaking out?.. because thats all it would take worldwide for New York to be under water.

I think you're missing my point. It maybe 20 degrees warmer than normal where you are, but its 19 degrees colder than normal someplace else. Still warmer than normal, but not to the extreme you are making it...

LikeAnOcean

given to grunge wrote:

Is anybody thinking of future? It is forecasted that 2007 will be the WARMEST year in all of the time since temperature is beeing measured!

I am totally against what we are doing to the environment and global warming, but just to make a point, it was MUCH warmer during the times of the dinosaurs.

fanch75

LikeAnOcean wrote:

I am totally against what we are doing to the environment and global warming, but just to make a point, it was MUCH warmer during the times of the dinosaurs.

Those fucking dinosaurs were a bunch of SUV-driving bastards.

In all seriousness, the planet has had multiple climate changes, both cooling (the ice ages) and warming (ie ending the ice ages, the "Dust Bowl" era, etc). Think about the timespace of the planets history, the range of temperatures of the universe. It's bound to get slighly (relative to the universe) warmer and cooler.

The earth is in a warming trend, no doubt. The question is, of the greenhouse gases, how much of that is due to man's activity? Fuck if I know, I'm an accountant and all I know is what I read/hear, and then applying my own reasoning (as per the parapgraph above).

And of course the answer is split typically & predictably by political wing, so everyone argues talking points based on their agenda.

LikeAnOcean

I'm by no means supporting global warmer (although I do enjoy warmer weather).. but here's some food for thought, maybe to help ease our troubled minds..

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/temperature/

given to grunge

fanch75 wrote:

Those fucking dinosaurs were a bunch of SUV-driving bastards.

In all seriousness, the planet has had multiple climate changes, both cooling (the ice ages) and warming (ie ending the ice ages, the "Dust Bowl" era, etc). Think about the timespace of the planets history, the range of temperatures of the universe. It's bound to get slighly (relative to the universe) warmer and cooler.

The earth is in a warming trend, no doubt. The question is, of the greenhouse gases, how much of that is due to man's activity? Fuck if I know, I'm an accountant and all I know is what I read/hear, and then applying my own reasoning (as per the parapgraph above).

And of course the answer is split typically & predictably by political wing, so everyone argues talking points based on their agenda.

Last two centuries, the major impact on nature environment has man, who was changing it to make his life better as soon as possible, not taking care for possibly damages which can affect nowadays life of all the people in the world.
There are half of all the forests in the world are now cleaned land, more frequently by setting fire to get land for cattle breeding and agriculture, what brought us to water-drainage of healthy subtropic areas and deserts expending. Fossil fuels burning and forest fires are increasing carbon dioxide content in the stratosphere, what amplifies greenhouse effect which, again, makes temperature and ultraviolet rays quantity on the Earth higher and higher.

jeffbr

given to grunge wrote:

Woke up this morning, can't believe my eyes - Yesterday it was around 0 Celsius = 32 Fahrenheit temperature in the air, and now I'm sitting on my balcony with shortsleeves t-shirt, with laptop in my hands, having a dreamview over my city of Makarska (here is the picture of it if you want to see - it's worth of seeing it(heaven on earth!)) and it's 11 celsius = 51.8 F in the air!
It IS nice NOW, BUT how will it be for our grandchildren for 50-100 years?!

Is anybody thinking of future? It is forecasted that 2007 will be the WARMEST year in all of the time since temperature is beeing measured!

Were are we exactly going?!

Holy shit!!! Based on your highly scientific 2-day trend you are going to be cooked like a fried egg tomorrow. You better run for your life, the sky is falling!

Obi Once

given to grunge, luckily there's quite a number of states in the US that has ratified Kyoto. Alltho thats not even sure to work, but something has to be done. Here's its quite freaky way to warm for the time of the year. And yes it bothers me, so i try to recycle and ride a bike / use public transport as much as possible. I love the sea, but would like it to stay at its present level, even more as my country mostly lies under sea level. Nether = low , lands


LikeAnOcean, how come if its cold here, there's a balance, so its warmer somewhere else?


fanch75, i really dont want to be extinct. SUVs are ugly anyway, even Porsche managed to make an ugly car.

I'm convinced the increase of CO2 in our atmosphere is due to man, since its the result of e.g. burning fossil fuels. Yes also from poop and things like that, but that had no big impact the last 15.000 years.

jeffbr

given to grunge wrote:

It's not normal! Hey?!

Kyoto conference is the one which takes care of it, but, again, America don't listen!

Please tell me the net effect Kyoto will have. I've seen no evidence that there will be a meaningful reduction in warming as a result of Kyoto. As with most things of this magnitude Kyoto is more about politics and show. Also, what does the cost / benefit analysis of Kyoto look like?

given to grunge

jeffbr wrote:

Please tell me the net effect Kyoto will have. I've seen no evidence that there will be a meaningful reduction in warming as a result of Kyoto. As with most things of this magnitude Kyoto is more about politics and show. Also, what does the cost / benefit analysis of Kyoto look like?

he United States (U.S.), although a signatory to the protocol, has neither ratified nor withdrawn from the protocol. The signature alone is symbolic, as the protocol is non-binding over the United States unless ratified. The United States is as of 2005 the largest single emitter of carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels.

Cost-benefit analysis

Economists have been trying to analyse the overall net benefit of Kyoto Protocol through cost-benefit analysis. Just as in the case of climatology, there is disagreement due to large uncertainties in economic variables. Still, the estimates so far generally indicate either that observing the Kyoto Protocol is more expensive than not observing the Kyoto Protocol or that the Kyoto Protocol has a marginal net benefit which exceeds the cost of simply adjusting to global warming. A study in Nature found that "accounting only for local external costs, together with production costs, to identify energy strategies, compliance with the Kyoto Protocol would imply lower, not higher, overall costs."

The recent Copenhagen consensus project found that the Kyoto Protocol would slow down the process of global warming, but have a superficial overall benefit. Defenders of the Kyoto Protocol argue, however, that while the initial greenhouse gas cuts may have little effect, they set the political precedent for bigger (and more effective) cuts in the future. They also advocate commitment to the precautionary principle. Critics point out that additional higher curbs on carbon emission are likely to cause significantly higher increase in cost, making such defence moot. Moreover, the precautionary principle could apply to any political, social, economic or environmental consequence, which might have equally devastating effect in terms of poverty and environment, making the precautionary argument irrelevant. The Stern Review (a UK government sponsored report into the economic impacts of climate change) concluded that one percent of global GDP is required to be invested in order to mitigate the effects of climate change, and that failure to do so could risk a recession worth up to twenty percent of global GDP.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Protocol

pjsal

It's very easy to help: http://www.algore.com/
Sign the postcard and add some comments. I wrote a lot, especially about waste incinerators (so called "waste to energy facilities"), which should be banned as they are global warming machines, as well as producers of cancer causing pollution. That's been my preoccupation lately, fighting an incinerator in my community. We should be comprehensively recycling instead...and limiting our driving, developing alternative fuels, making maximum use of sunlight to limit dependence on electricity from coal (which produces carbon dioxide in its burning as well as destroying mountains in its mining), etc., etc...
So much to do to help.
In the meantime, sign the postcard at the above website and consider joining the Sierra Club.

Riot_Rain

Temperature is one thing.

Not too long ago, a twister struck London. I thought: "Freak twister, it happens, tough shit."

A week ago, I encountered a mini-twister while driving. Bloody scary. I later read it struck a village not far from there and wreaked havoc.

Saturday, a mini tornado swept through a housing estate in Hampshire, UK.

Maybe my memory is shite, but I can't remember these things happening this regularly until now.

My neighbourhood is flooded most the time now as well. And where has winter gone?

Maybe this is unrelated to climate change, maybe not. But I don't fancy waiting for the moment when the mini tornados turn into big ones before we clean up our act, literally.

given to grunge

Riot_Rain wrote:

Temperature is one thing.

Not too long ago, a twister struck London. I thought: "Freak twister, it happens, tough shit."

A week ago, I encountered a mini-twister while driving. Bloody scary. I later read it struck a village not far from there and wreaked havoc.

Saturday, a mini tornado swept through a housing estate in Hampshire, UK.

Maybe my memory is shite, but I can't remember these things happening this regularly until now.

My neighbourhood is flooded most the time now as well. And where has winter gone?

Maybe this is unrelated to climate change, maybe not. But I don't fancy waiting for the moment when the mini tornados turn into big ones before we clean up our act, literally.

THESE TORNADOS has the connection/relation to temperature!
They are created because of temperature and air pressure.
temperature in europe also depend on a warm sea (on my language it is called Golfska struja - I don't know how to say it on English, sorry) that's going in north-eastern part of Europe and it's heating it(EU).

It's all connected....

1970RR

Well at least global warming isnt plagued by the hyperbole surrounding other issues: http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2007/01/08/01291.html

polaris

jeffbr wrote:

Please tell me the net effect Kyoto will have. I've seen no evidence that there will be a meaningful reduction in warming as a result of Kyoto. As with most things of this magnitude Kyoto is more about politics and show. Also, what does the cost / benefit analysis of Kyoto look like?

it really depends on how much you value life ... but let's set aside the impact to life in general and look only at the simple things ... how much do all these natural disaster cost to fix up? ... what is their impact on the precious economy? ... loss production days, cleanup, repairs, etc...

all the while - if we just all did a small bit by conserving energy and resources (initiatives that would actually save the person money either short or long term) we could easily meet kyoto's targets ... most countries in europe are doing it with little effort ... but if u want to buy into the PR campaign that its either the economy or the planet - then its gonna take more explaining ...

jeffbr

1970RR wrote:

Well at least global warming isnt plagued by the hyperbole surrounding other issues: http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2007/01/08/01291.html

LOL. Nice! 4.5B by 2012??? Does anyone here believe it? Talk about preying on fear.

Obi Once

To summarize, human activity is causing the Earth to warm. Bacteria converts carbon in the soil into greenhouse gasses, and enormous quantities are trapped in unstable clathrates. As the earth continues to warm, permafrost clathrates will thaw; peat and soil microbial activity will dramatically increase; and, finally, vast oceanic clathrates will melt. This global warming chain reaction has happened in the past.

Atmospheric concentrations of CO2 rose by a record amount over the past year. It is the third successive year in which they have increased sharply. Scientists are at a loss to explain why the rapid rise has taken place, but fear the trend could be the first sign of runaway global warming.

jeffbr wrote:

LOL. Nice! 4.5B by 2012??? Does anyone here believe it? Talk about preying on fear.

Indeed hilarious
I get the feeling who bought the false WMD theroy here are the ones shouting loudest the factual change in the earth climate is scare tactics. And yes I agree 4.5B is a very very high estimate in a short time, but people die from long conditions every day caused by polution.

Additional: Today was the warmest januari 9th ever recorded here. Flowers are blooming, caterpilars are hatching, it is not that these things are truelly unique, they just never happenend so often years in a row. We're setting record after record year in and out.

onelongsong

given to grunge wrote:

Woke up this morning, can't believe my eyes - Yesterday it was around 0 Celsius = 32 Fahrenheit temperature in the air, and now I'm sitting on my balcony with shortsleeves t-shirt, with laptop in my hands, having a dreamview over my city of Makarska (here is the picture of it if you want to see - it's worth of seeing it(heaven on earth!)) and it's 11 celsius = 51.8 F in the air!
It IS nice NOW, BUT how will it be for our grandchildren for 50-100 years?!

Is anybody thinking of future? It is forecasted that 2007 will be the WARMEST year in all of the time since temperature is beeing measured!

Were are we exactly going?!

the ignorant boo hoo global warming; those who study it worry; the rest seem to just wonder about it.
the easiest way to slow down global warming would be a trade embargo on china; the biggest pollution generator; but you can't do without your chinese made toys; can you people?

jeffbr

Obi Once wrote:

Indeed hilarious
I get the feeling who bought the false WMD theroy here are the ones shouting loudest the factual change in the earth climate is scare tactics. And yes I agree 4.5B is a very very high estimate in a short time, but people die from long conditions every day caused by polution.

Your WMD theory is interesting but irrelevant, at least in my case. I didn't believe in WMDs and I am not in favor of Iraq, so the WMD fear mongering didn't work with me. At the same time, the global warming fear mongering appears to be having an effect on some people, and not others. I happen to be one who doesn't buy into the doomsday scenarios. If you really believe 4.5B people will die in the next 5 years due to global warming, Al Gore probably has a job for you.

Obi Once wrote:

Additional: Today was the warmest januari 9th ever recorded here. Flowers are blooming, caterpilars are hatching, it is not that these things are truelly unique, they just never happenend so often years in a row. We're setting record after record year in and out.

By that same logic I think we're headed for an ice age. Seattle is going to have a high of 29 degrees on Thursday. That's damned cold for here. So based on that one day trend, we're in for a real cooling spell.