Again. Let´s see if you understand:
- You support a war (in this case, in Afganistan).
- I would never support a war, I don´t care which country we are talking about.
It´s a difference.
you dont support the war in afgahinstan because your country wasnt attacked by the people in charge of that country.
Well... I don´t have the solution...but do you think the United States are the right ones to decide who should stop and who should not? who gives you the right to do that? god?
its not just the US who is making this decision. the world stands united on the issue of Iran having nukes.
- I would never support a war, I don´t care which country we are talking about.
watching your best friend's life be permanently fucked up because he lost a parent in 9/11 will make you support a war fairly quickly. and you would never support a war? how about fighting the nazis?
i will never be able to understand how people can be complete pacifists, without regard to the situation. sometimes a person, country, etc. just need the living shit kicked out of them. period.
watching your best friend's life be permanently fucked up because he lost a parent in 9/11 will make you support a war fairly quickly. and you would never support a war? how about fighting the nazis?
i will never be able to understand how people can be complete pacifists, without regard to the situation. sometimes a person, country, etc. just need the living shit kicked out of them. period.
no they don't.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
my emotion would want to lash out but that doesn't make revenge justified or accomplish anything except to produce more hate, fear and aggression.
i think beating the shit out of someone in that circumstance is the only thing that's going to help. and if you kick a rapist's ass, how is that going to produce more hate, fear, and agression? if anything it will reduce the fear of the rapist ever raping again (provided you kick his ass correctly). as for the hate aspect...he might hate you, but who cares? he's a rapist. society will thank you and understand why you did it, not hate you.
i mean, let's be honest with ourselves here. you even said it yourself... your emotions would want to lash out. why ignore your emotions? that's not healthy.
i think beating the shit out of someone in that circumstance is the only thing that's going to help. and if you kick a rapist's ass, how is that going to produce more hate, fear, and agression? if anything it will reduce the fear of the rapist ever raping again (provided you kick his ass correctly). as for the hate aspect...he might hate you, but who cares? he's a rapist. society will thank you and understand why you did it, not hate you.
i mean, let's be honest with ourselves here. you even said it yourself... your emotions would want to lash out. why ignore your emotions? that's not healthy.
because it's a negative emotion that shouldn't be acted on. nothing good comes from agression or hate. what has happned because of all the wars we've fought? only more wars.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
what has happned because of all the wars we've fought? only more wars.
BY GOD. it's so brilliant. no more war!!
and what if we could just give everyone living below the poverty line a million dollars! better make it a billion, just for a nice touch.
and we could ask everyone in prision if they were guilty or not, because if they say they are innocent, we should just let them go free!
all of these are nice little thoughts. they are all, however, completely unrealistic in every single way. men have waged wars for as long as there have been other men to wage war against. some neo-hippie movement isn't going to change that.
and what if we could just give everyone living below the poverty line a million dollars! better make it a billion, just for a nice touch.
and we could ask everyone in prision if they were guilty or not, because if they say they are innocent, we should just let them go free!
all of these are nice little thoughts. they are all, however, completely unrealistic in every single way. men have waged wars for as long as there have been other men to wage war against. some neo-hippie movement isn't going to change that.
Bleak outlook....enjoy that.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
all of these are nice little thoughts. they are all, however, completely unrealistic in every single way. men have waged wars for as long as there have been other men to wage war against. some neo-hippie movement isn't going to change that.
Actually you are being the naive one in this argument.
watching your best friend's life be permanently fucked up because he lost a parent in 9/11 will make you support a war fairly quickly. and you would never support a war? how about fighting the nazis?
Now say my best friend is palestinian, his home was destroyed by an Israeli rocket supposed to target know terrorists but fell a few houses short. And that rocket and the means to fire it, and the intel behind the whereabouts of terrorists was provided by the usa. Does this give him the right to support the 9/11 events?
If you think like this you're bound to end up supporting each and every act of violence against people who are not you or your neighbours.
I respect you not wanting war, ever. and go about everything in a non violent way. its very admirable.
but sadly war has been happening since the beginning of mankind. its something that will never go away. there will always be crazy poeple like bin laden or hitler who will bring war to people who dont want it.
but keep fighting the good fight. there is no way I can tell you that your wrong. peace is always good.
my emotion would want to lash out but that doesn't make revenge justified or accomplish anything except to produce more hate, fear and aggression.
your wasting your time dude.there are some clowns on here that wouldn't know the truth if it was stomping their head.9-11 WAS an inside job and there are many more documentary's than loose change that expose the truth,the reason loose change gets the most attacks is because it was waking up a lot of people who ARE capable of thinking for themselves,not the mass lemming mind set shared by some on this board.and any one who thinks war is ever a good thing doesn't know shit about who really starts these wars and why.
"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot". Mark Twain
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
your wasting your time dude.there are some clowns on here that wouldn't know the truth if it was stomping their head.9-11 WAS an inside job and there are many more documentary's than loose change that expose the truth,the reason loose change gets the most attacks is because it was waking up a lot of people who ARE capable of thinking for themselves,not the mass lemming mind set shared by some on this board.and any one who thinks war is ever a good thing doesn't know shit about who really starts these wars and why.
but sadly war has been happening since the beginning of mankind. its something that will never go away. there will always be crazy poeple like bin laden or hitler who will bring war to people who dont want it.
War will never go away if we continue to believe that it is a necessary evil. Grace is a very hard thing. To be honest, I'm not sure how I'd react if someone harmed my daughter. I can sit here and say that I would not reciprocate the violence, but that is easier said than done. But, the higher road is always forgiveness, no doubt about that. It's the only way to heal and move on. By harboring the hatred, you only allow the evil to continue to abuse you.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
your wasting your time dude.there are some clowns on here that wouldn't know the truth if it was stomping their head.9-11 WAS an inside job and there are many more documentary's than loose change that expose the truth,the reason loose change gets the most attacks is because it was waking up a lot of people who ARE capable of thinking for themselves,not the mass lemming mind set shared by some on this board.and any one who thinks war is ever a good thing doesn't know shit about who really starts these wars and why.
who is the lemming here? me, who doesn't believe the "loose change" bullshit OR the official story, or you, who watched a few amateur videos and had your mind made up.
War will never go away if we continue to believe that it is a necessary evil. Grace is a very hard thing. To be honest, I'm not sure how I'd react if someone harmed my daughter. I can sit here and say that I would not reciprocate the violence, but that is easier said than done. But, the higher road is always forgiveness, no doubt about that. It's the only way to heal and move on. By harboring the hatred, you only allow the evil to continue to abuse you.
I hear ya. but reality is reality. I want peace, you want peace, abook wants peace. there will always be some that dont no matter how much we try to lead by example.
War will never go away if we continue to believe that it is a necessary evil. Grace is a very hard thing. To be honest, I'm not sure how I'd react if someone harmed my daughter. I can sit here and say that I would not reciprocate the violence, but that is easier said than done. But, the higher road is always forgiveness, no doubt about that. It's the only way to heal and move on. By harboring the hatred, you only allow the evil to continue to abuse you.
I'm not sure war and harm of a child are parallels. I'm not a big fan of war, and am and have been against the Iraq war from the beginning. But I know exactly what would happen if someone harmed my daughter, and it would absolutely have something to do with recprocation of violence. I'll leave the notion of forgiveness to the religious folks.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I'm not sure war and harm of a child are parallels. I'm not a big fan of war, and am and have been against the Iraq war from the beginning. But I know exactly what would happen if someone harmed my daughter, and it would absolutely have something to do with recprocation of violence. I'll leave the notion of forgiveness to the religious folks.
what if, for sake of example, canada fired a nuclear weapon at us and killed your daughter. along with a million other americans. would you take matters into your own hands or expect the government to fight back on behalf of yuor daughter and the other million that died.
I'm not sure war and harm of a child are parallels. I'm not a big fan of war, and am and have been against the Iraq war from the beginning. But I know exactly what would happen if someone harmed my daughter, and it would absolutely have something to do with recprocation of violence. I'll leave the notion of forgiveness to the religious folks.
Are you picking on me today, Jeffbr?
I can see the parallel, personally. Let me repeat: By harboring the hatred, you only allow the evil to continue to abuse you. I can't tell you how enlightening it is to let go of the past and those that harmed you. I used the example of my daughter to make a point. I don't think it would be easy to 'forgive' my enemy. But those that do are no longer a victim.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
what if, for sake of example, canada fired a nuclear weapon at us and killed your daughter. along with a million other americans. would you take matters into your own hands or expect the government to fight back on behalf of yuor daughter and the other million that died.
or will you march for peace ?
This is hard stuff, jlew. I think I would want to stop the violence in the name of my daughter. I wouldn't want to perpetuate something might result in the death of someone else's daughter.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I can see the parallel, personally. Let me repeat: By harboring the hatred, you only allow the evil to continue to abuse you. I can't tell you how enlightening it is to let go of the past and those that harmed you. I used the example of my daughter to make a point. I don't think it would be easy to 'forgive' my enemy. But those that do are no longer a victim.
LOL, not trying to pick on you. I don't tend to post in a lot of different threads, but when I join a thread I hang out there. You just happened to post in a couple of threads I've been following.
As usual, you tend to take a calm, reasoned approach to your views. I can respect that you would seek the more difficult path to forgiveness. I would seek a cathartic path to revenge, and in doing so hope it would also release my hatred. Since I have no religious notion of the virtue of forgiveness and the WWJD question, I'm afraid I'd harbor hate the entire time I was trying to realize this concept of forgiveness. My approach would be a more direct purging of the bad feelings.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
This is hard stuff, jlew. I think I would want to stop the violence in the name of my daughter. I wouldn't want to perpetuate something might result in the death of someone else's daughter.
not a bad idea there at all. but you still run into the problem of them hitting us again. its hard stuff for sure.
LOL, not trying to pick on you. I don't tend to post in a lot of different threads, but when I join a thread I hang out there. You just happened to post in a couple of threads I've been following.
As usual, you tend to take a calm, reasoned approach to your views. I can respect that you would seek the more difficult path to forgiveness. I would seek a cathartic path to revenge, and in doing so hope it would also release my hatred. Since I have no religious notion of the virtue of forgiveness and the WWJD question, I'm afraid I'd harbor hate the entire time I was trying to realize this concept of forgiveness. My approach would be a more direct purging of the bad feelings.
I was just kidding . I'm enjoying the back and forth.
Well, I've been down that path of hate and revenge, blaming others that harmed me in the past for my failures. Let me just say it sucked and wasn't very cathartic at all. Forgiveness isn't a concept just for the religious. It is an important tenet, but not all 'religious' folks practice it (obviously). Again, I'm not sure if I would have much grace if my daughter was harmed, but really, all the hate and thoughts of revenge only prolongs the misery. Forgiveness of yourself and others is a hard pill to swallow, but I personally believe it can work miracles.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I hear ya. but reality is reality. I want peace, you want peace, abook wants peace. there will always be some that dont no matter how much we try to lead by example.
I agree reality is reality, but I'm tired of self-fulfilling prophecies. If you don't believe peace is possible, then it's not. Focus on what you want, peace. You might be surprised at what is possible.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I'm afraid I'd harbor hate the entire time I was trying to realize this concept of forgiveness. My approach would be a more direct purging of the bad feelings.
You're a logical person. If you seek money, but cling to poverty, how do you feel you will find money? And likewise, while clinging to hatred, how will that bring forgiveness?
Rather than a purging of feelings, it sounds more like you would be choosing to perpetuate the bad feelings. I agree with baraka--forgiveness is not a religious concept, it's a human concept.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
You're a logical person. If you seek money, but cling to poverty, how do you feel you will find money? And likewise, while clinging to hatred, how will that bring forgiveness?
Rather than a purging of feelings, it sounds more like you would be choosing to perpetuate the bad feelings. I agree with baraka--forgiveness is not a religious concept, it's a human concept.
well said, angelica
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Comments
you dont support the war in afgahinstan because your country wasnt attacked by the people in charge of that country.
its not just the US who is making this decision. the world stands united on the issue of Iran having nukes.
watching your best friend's life be permanently fucked up because he lost a parent in 9/11 will make you support a war fairly quickly. and you would never support a war? how about fighting the nazis?
i will never be able to understand how people can be complete pacifists, without regard to the situation. sometimes a person, country, etc. just need the living shit kicked out of them. period.
no they don't.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
if you say they don't, then you are just a flat out liar. sorry, but that's the truth.
my emotion would want to lash out but that doesn't make revenge justified or accomplish anything except to produce more hate, fear and aggression.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i think beating the shit out of someone in that circumstance is the only thing that's going to help. and if you kick a rapist's ass, how is that going to produce more hate, fear, and agression? if anything it will reduce the fear of the rapist ever raping again (provided you kick his ass correctly). as for the hate aspect...he might hate you, but who cares? he's a rapist. society will thank you and understand why you did it, not hate you.
i mean, let's be honest with ourselves here. you even said it yourself... your emotions would want to lash out. why ignore your emotions? that's not healthy.
because it's a negative emotion that shouldn't be acted on. nothing good comes from agression or hate. what has happned because of all the wars we've fought? only more wars.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
and what if we could just give everyone living below the poverty line a million dollars! better make it a billion, just for a nice touch.
and we could ask everyone in prision if they were guilty or not, because if they say they are innocent, we should just let them go free!
all of these are nice little thoughts. they are all, however, completely unrealistic in every single way. men have waged wars for as long as there have been other men to wage war against. some neo-hippie movement isn't going to change that.
Bleak outlook....enjoy that.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Actually you are being the naive one in this argument.
Now say my best friend is palestinian, his home was destroyed by an Israeli rocket supposed to target know terrorists but fell a few houses short. And that rocket and the means to fire it, and the intel behind the whereabouts of terrorists was provided by the usa. Does this give him the right to support the 9/11 events?
If you think like this you're bound to end up supporting each and every act of violence against people who are not you or your neighbours.
I respect you not wanting war, ever. and go about everything in a non violent way. its very admirable.
but sadly war has been happening since the beginning of mankind. its something that will never go away. there will always be crazy poeple like bin laden or hitler who will bring war to people who dont want it.
but keep fighting the good fight. there is no way I can tell you that your wrong. peace is always good.
your wasting your time dude.there are some clowns on here that wouldn't know the truth if it was stomping their head.9-11 WAS an inside job and there are many more documentary's than loose change that expose the truth,the reason loose change gets the most attacks is because it was waking up a lot of people who ARE capable of thinking for themselves,not the mass lemming mind set shared by some on this board.and any one who thinks war is ever a good thing doesn't know shit about who really starts these wars and why.
"I would rather die on my feet than to live on my knees."
Emiliano Zapata
War will never go away if we continue to believe that it is a necessary evil. Grace is a very hard thing. To be honest, I'm not sure how I'd react if someone harmed my daughter. I can sit here and say that I would not reciprocate the violence, but that is easier said than done. But, the higher road is always forgiveness, no doubt about that. It's the only way to heal and move on. By harboring the hatred, you only allow the evil to continue to abuse you.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I hear ya. but reality is reality. I want peace, you want peace, abook wants peace. there will always be some that dont no matter how much we try to lead by example.
I'm not sure war and harm of a child are parallels. I'm not a big fan of war, and am and have been against the Iraq war from the beginning. But I know exactly what would happen if someone harmed my daughter, and it would absolutely have something to do with recprocation of violence. I'll leave the notion of forgiveness to the religious folks.
what if, for sake of example, canada fired a nuclear weapon at us and killed your daughter. along with a million other americans. would you take matters into your own hands or expect the government to fight back on behalf of yuor daughter and the other million that died.
or will you march for peace ?
Are you picking on me today, Jeffbr?
I can see the parallel, personally. Let me repeat: By harboring the hatred, you only allow the evil to continue to abuse you. I can't tell you how enlightening it is to let go of the past and those that harmed you. I used the example of my daughter to make a point. I don't think it would be easy to 'forgive' my enemy. But those that do are no longer a victim.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
This is hard stuff, jlew. I think I would want to stop the violence in the name of my daughter. I wouldn't want to perpetuate something might result in the death of someone else's daughter.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
LOL, not trying to pick on you.
As usual, you tend to take a calm, reasoned approach to your views. I can respect that you would seek the more difficult path to forgiveness. I would seek a cathartic path to revenge, and in doing so hope it would also release my hatred. Since I have no religious notion of the virtue of forgiveness and the WWJD question, I'm afraid I'd harbor hate the entire time I was trying to realize this concept of forgiveness. My approach would be a more direct purging of the bad feelings.
I was just kidding
Well, I've been down that path of hate and revenge, blaming others that harmed me in the past for my failures. Let me just say it sucked and wasn't very cathartic at all. Forgiveness isn't a concept just for the religious. It is an important tenet, but not all 'religious' folks practice it (obviously). Again, I'm not sure if I would have much grace if my daughter was harmed, but really, all the hate and thoughts of revenge only prolongs the misery. Forgiveness of yourself and others is a hard pill to swallow, but I personally believe it can work miracles.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I agree reality is reality, but I'm tired of self-fulfilling prophecies. If you don't believe peace is possible, then it's not. Focus on what you want, peace. You might be surprised at what is possible.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
The Canadians? Nah
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Rather than a purging of feelings, it sounds more like you would be choosing to perpetuate the bad feelings. I agree with baraka--forgiveness is not a religious concept, it's a human concept.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
well said, angelica
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Yay!
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!