I understand. I just dont understand why a joke should disappoint you when he later explained himself and said he respects their views. Theres nothing in this world worth being serious or mad about.
well i explained my disappointment, as you have said, many times over. that his mind would immediately go to such a joke...and yes, i do follow the precept "many a truth lies in humor." i think maybe a little hint of ed not being as open-minded as he thinks he is...and you know what, i don't hold him to a higher standard, we ALL do it too. i guess as you suggested earlier, i would've preferd one of those introspective, deep-in-thought 'ed looks'...while he thought of something better to start off with. that is all.
btw - i definitely DISagree that there is nothing in this world to be serious or get angry about. however, that is another topic.
bottomline, do i hold this 'against' ed or think less of him? not at all. i think it was simply a poor choice....and i can see how one could be hurt. i have been hurt by off-hand remarks/jokes by friends and family...even knowing they were jokes. the initial sting is still there. i am a sensitive person, thus i cannot fault someone else if they are sensitive too. i also see nothing wrong with it.
if ed was referencing our government, or even the extreme-right wing as an 'entity'...i probably would not at all be bothered by his 'fuck 'em' comments. moreso b/c it was directed at a contingency of his fans that the disappointment resides.
anyway, obviously it's been quite the topic...and i just wonder why you are participating if you don't want to read other, possibly different, points of view? i mean, isn;t that the whole purpose of this thread and the many others like it? rather a dull discussion if one just says i agree, i agree, i agree.
well i explained my disappointment, as you have said, many times over. that his mind would immediately go to such a joke...and yes, i do follow the precept "many a truth lies in humor." i think maybe a little hint of ed not being as open-minded as he thinks he is...and you know what, i don't hold him to a higher standard, we ALL do it too. i guess as you suggested earlier, i would've preferd one of those introspective, deep-in-thought 'ed looks'...while he thought of something better to start off with. that is all.
btw - i definitely DISagree that there is nothing in this world to be serious or get angry about. however, that is another topic.
bottomline, do i hold this 'against' ed or think less of him? not at all. i think it was simply a poor choice....and i can see how one could be hurt. i have been hurt by off-hand remarks/jokes by friends and family...even knowing they were jokes. the initial sting is still there. i am a sensitive person, thus i cannot fault someone else if they are sensitive too. i also see nothing wrong with it.
if ed was referencing our government, or even the extreme-right wing as an 'entity'...i probably would not at all be bothered by his 'fuck 'em' comments. moreso b/c it was directed at a contingency of his fans that the disappointment resides.
anyway, obviously it's been quite the topic...and i just wonder why you are participating if you don't want to read other, possibly different, points of view? i mean, isn;t that the whole purpose of this thread and the many others like it? rather a dull discussion if one just says i agree, i agree, i agree.
Its a shitty discussion if someone disagrees just too disagree.
Its a shitty discussion if someone disagrees just too disagree.
wasn't suggesting such. merely pointing out, it's not much to *discuss* if we see everything eye to eye. i believe what i type, no worries there. my only point was, wouldn't you at least expect a few, even a very few, to have a different opinion than yours...especially here on the MT forum? so then, why it seemed to get under your skin, or you think i am blowing it out of proportion...when all i am really doing is offering my own personal opinion and perspective on the topic.
also too, keep in mind, none of us can truly *know* ed's intent at all, except ed. i am not even trying to second-guess his intent, i am merely expressing my own thoughts on what actually came out of his mouth.
I dont think your overreacting. I think the people who dont like the band anymore because of it or the poeple who were offended by it. Its also true we cant be sure of Ed's intent. But does anyone really believe he was being serious?
I dont think your overreacting. I think the people who dont like the band anymore because of it or the poeple who were offended by it. Its also true we cant be sure of Ed's intent. But does anyone really believe he was being serious?
I think he was serious in how they are a hinderance to the change he'd like to see. I think it shows more his frustration level than feelings towards a group of people.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I dont think your overreacting. I think the people who dont like the band anymore because of it or the poeple who were offended by it. Its also true we cant be sure of Ed's intent. But does anyone really believe he was being serious?
have people actually suggested they are no longer fans b/c of it? i obviously didn't read those posts. i really have only discussed this issue here on the MT, and i haven't seen any say anything like that. sure, i'll agree, that is rather extreme. but hey, it's their choice and their loss....so c'est la vie.
i don't truly believe he was 'serious'...but i don't think it was completely 'innocent' either. but absolutely, overall, i think ed does respect others' rights to have whatever point of view. and again, none of us can really know his intent...so yea...whateva on that score. i was only discussing my own, personal reaction/thoughts to such a comment.
have people actually suggested they are no longer fans b/c of it? i obviously didn't read those posts. i really have only discussed this issue here on the MT, and i haven't seen any say anything like that. sure, i'll agree, that is rather extreme. but hey, it's their choice and their loss....so c'est la vie.
i don't truly believe he was 'serious'...but i don't think it was completely 'innocent' either. but absolutely, overall, i think ed does respect others' rights to have whatever point of view. and again, none of us can really know his intent...so yea...whateva on that score. i was only discussing my own, personal reaction/thoughts to such a comment.
There was a guy in The Porch who said he will not spend another dollar on Pearl Jam. I completely agree with you with your second paragraph. I just dont like it when people leave behind the music becuase of one joke he made.
There was a guy in The Porch who said he will not spend another dollar on Pearl Jam. I completely agree with you with your second paragraph. I just dont like it when people leave behind the music becuase of one joke he made.
it's sad, absolutely...but completely a CHOICE and dare i say....if one can walk away from the music over it, did it really hold such a strong value to them then? i don't know. i am not suggesting we don't all have our 'lines' b/c we all do......but where we draw it to me, speaks to how greatly we value any one thing.
it's sad, absolutely...but completely a CHOICE and dare i say....if one can walk away from the music over it, did it really hold such a strong value to them then? i don't know. i am not suggesting we don't all have our 'lines' b/c we all do......but where we draw it to me, speaks to how greatly we value any one thing.
I could never make the choice to leave PJ...but I still hold it my heart that I feel the same way they do politically...but I would never say something is okay because Eddie Vedder told me...I can justify my own beliefs...but to leave the music is sad...especially PJ's music....too bad....
I understand. I just dont understand why a joke should disappoint you when he later explained himself and said he respects their views. Theres nothing in this world worth being serious or mad about.
b) this whole thing makes me giggle. People are actually trying to create some sort of rift between Mike and Ed because of some percieved expression on Mike's face. Other people are taking wayyyy too much pride in the fact that Eddie made the statement in the first place.
Why is that so supprising that Eddie would make that statement? The dude is, and always has been a bomb throwing lefty. Which of course is great by me, but the simple statement of "fuck em" doesnt really seem that odd or shocking.
c) PEARL JAM IS A PROGGRESIVE (LIBERAL) BAND. Geezus H Monkeyspank, read the lyrics. Read the lyrics. Read the lyrics. Besides, if anyone in the bad had any problem with Ed's views, dontcha think we woulda heard about them. Dont you think it would have scuttled the band before now. Bu$hleager anyone?
Sure, some band memebers probably think that Ed says some stuff they wish he didnt (same with u2 and Bono) but I think the music and thier support for their front man shows that they pretty much agree.
d) so fuckin what. As Springsteen says - trust the art and not the artist. Miles Davis was supposed to be a tremendous ass, but that doesnt mean Ill stop listening. Chuck Berry peeped on women peeing, but that doesnt mean Ill stop listening.
If Eddie and PJ are Leftist Zinn-loving Bush haters - but you like the tunes... so be it. If you love Reagan, Shrub, and Ann Coulter but also love Marker in The Sand - great... so be it.
Its about the art.
And above all else they are bizzaro-great artists.
Wow. I can't believe it, but I totally agree with you.
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Ok what about a handicap joke, a blonde joke, a short joke, a bold joke, etc...
*just my personal experience*
I don't get mad at my best friend for wearing her tshirt with a blonde joke on it. I just laugh and call her a butthole then she laughs back because it's funny. I know she thinks highly of me as I think of her so when she wears that shirt, I have enough sense to know she doesn't mean it literally. Why can't some of you give Ed the same benefit of the doubt? I think he does respect and care about his fans. It's part of why we love the band so much
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I don't get mad at my best friend for wearing her tshirt with a blonde joke on it. I just laugh and call her a butthole then she laughs back because it's funny. I know she thinks highly of me as I think of her so when she wears that shirt, I have enough sense to know she doesn't mean it literally. Why can't some of you give Ed the same benefit of the doubt? I think he does respect and care about his fans. It's part of why we love the band so much
I do give him the benefit of the doubt. I merely stated that I can see why some fans might have been a bit upset over the comment.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I do give him the benefit of the doubt. I merely stated that I can see why some fans might have been a bit upset over the comment.
I know you do. I was just throwing in my personal experience and thoughts. Everyone has that buddy that gives them a hard time for time to time but still know that he isn't being serious...they just laugh and share a beer. I was just offering up another perspective that perhaps some hadn't thought of.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I don't get mad at my best friend for wearing her tshirt with a blonde joke on it. I just laugh and call her a butthole then she laughs back because it's funny. I know she thinks highly of me as I think of her so when she wears that shirt, I have enough sense to know she doesn't mean it literally. Why can't some of you give Ed the same benefit of the doubt? I think he does respect and care about his fans. It's part of why we love the band so much
Wow. I totally agree with you too! What the heck is going on today?! First PastorJeffD...now Abook!!!! Ahhhhh!!!!!!!
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You are slowly being pulled to the dark side....my plan is finally coming to fruitation.
I thought I was the dark side, and YOU were the "rebel scum"? :D Oh well, either way it's cool. The dark side gets to dress in patent black leather...and the other group gets to be called "rebels". I'm good either way!
And yes...I'm highly suggesting that you have to dress in patent black leather. That would be...um...nevermind...
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I thought I was the dark side, and YOU were the "rebel scum"? :D Oh well, either way it's cool. The dark side gets to dress in patent black leather...and the other group gets to be called "rebels". I'm good either way!
And yes...I'm highly suggesting that you have to dress in patent black leather. That would be...um...nevermind...
LOL! You and your imagination! But without the mask at least, right?
You know our side isn't gonna wear a bunch of leather....perhaps some of those tight, black plasticy looking pants instead? We can recycle them. hehe
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The comments about certian persons making too much of the Mike vs Eddie I guess was referring to the interchange of a couple of posts between me and PaperPlates. Ok, we got lots of mileage out of this haven't we. It was just an observation that I actually stand by. IMHO. And of course I know it is an opinion.
I sort of hesitate to continue this discussion at all, but I think many have at least agreed that there was validation of the argument that it wasn't a very good response to say F them from both lefties and righties. So, that is probably all that needs to be said. Of course this post will bring out of the woodwork all those that loved the statement
As for my observation regarding Mike's reaction, take it or leave it.
And for the record, I didn't say I was leaving the band. That would be silly, but F em definately was a temporary turn off.
HOB 10.05.2005, E Rutherford 06.03.2006, The Gorge 07.22.2006, Lolla 08.05.2007, West Palm 06.11.2008, Tampa 06.12.2008, Columbia 06.16.2008, EV Memphis 06.20.2009, New Orleans 05.01.2010, Kansas City 05.03.2010
Comments
well i explained my disappointment, as you have said, many times over. that his mind would immediately go to such a joke...and yes, i do follow the precept "many a truth lies in humor." i think maybe a little hint of ed not being as open-minded as he thinks he is...and you know what, i don't hold him to a higher standard, we ALL do it too. i guess as you suggested earlier, i would've preferd one of those introspective, deep-in-thought 'ed looks'...while he thought of something better to start off with. that is all.
btw - i definitely DISagree that there is nothing in this world to be serious or get angry about. however, that is another topic.
bottomline, do i hold this 'against' ed or think less of him? not at all. i think it was simply a poor choice....and i can see how one could be hurt. i have been hurt by off-hand remarks/jokes by friends and family...even knowing they were jokes. the initial sting is still there. i am a sensitive person, thus i cannot fault someone else if they are sensitive too. i also see nothing wrong with it.
if ed was referencing our government, or even the extreme-right wing as an 'entity'...i probably would not at all be bothered by his 'fuck 'em' comments. moreso b/c it was directed at a contingency of his fans that the disappointment resides.
anyway, obviously it's been quite the topic...and i just wonder why you are participating if you don't want to read other, possibly different, points of view? i mean, isn;t that the whole purpose of this thread and the many others like it? rather a dull discussion if one just says i agree, i agree, i agree.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
wasn't suggesting such. merely pointing out, it's not much to *discuss* if we see everything eye to eye. i believe what i type, no worries there. my only point was, wouldn't you at least expect a few, even a very few, to have a different opinion than yours...especially here on the MT forum? so then, why it seemed to get under your skin, or you think i am blowing it out of proportion...when all i am really doing is offering my own personal opinion and perspective on the topic.
also too, keep in mind, none of us can truly *know* ed's intent at all, except ed. i am not even trying to second-guess his intent, i am merely expressing my own thoughts on what actually came out of his mouth.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
have people actually suggested they are no longer fans b/c of it? i obviously didn't read those posts. i really have only discussed this issue here on the MT, and i haven't seen any say anything like that. sure, i'll agree, that is rather extreme. but hey, it's their choice and their loss....so c'est la vie.
i don't truly believe he was 'serious'...but i don't think it was completely 'innocent' either.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
it's sad, absolutely...but completely a CHOICE and dare i say....if one can walk away from the music over it, did it really hold such a strong value to them then? i don't know. i am not suggesting we don't all have our 'lines' b/c we all do......but where we draw it to me, speaks to how greatly we value any one thing.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I could never make the choice to leave PJ...but I still hold it my heart that I feel the same way they do politically...but I would never say something is okay because Eddie Vedder told me...I can justify my own beliefs...but to leave the music is sad...especially PJ's music....too bad....
Then why is ed so serious and angry?
www.myspace.com/jensvad
Wow. I can't believe it, but I totally agree with you.
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*just my personal experience*
I don't get mad at my best friend for wearing her tshirt with a blonde joke on it. I just laugh and call her a butthole then she laughs back because it's funny. I know she thinks highly of me as I think of her so when she wears that shirt, I have enough sense to know she doesn't mean it literally. Why can't some of you give Ed the same benefit of the doubt? I think he does respect and care about his fans. It's part of why we love the band so much
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I do give him the benefit of the doubt. I merely stated that I can see why some fans might have been a bit upset over the comment.
I know you do. I was just throwing in my personal experience and thoughts. Everyone has that buddy that gives them a hard time for time to time but still know that he isn't being serious...they just laugh and share a beer. I was just offering up another perspective that perhaps some hadn't thought of.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Wow. I totally agree with you too! What the heck is going on today?! First PastorJeffD...now Abook!!!! Ahhhhh!!!!!!!
High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
Low Traffic CIO MIW
Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
You are slowly being pulled to the dark side....my plan is finally coming to fruitation.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I thought I was the dark side, and YOU were the "rebel scum"?
And yes...I'm highly suggesting that you have to dress in patent black leather. That would be...um...nevermind...
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i had no idea the FCC was watching this board.
LOL! You and your imagination! But without the mask at least, right?
You know our side isn't gonna wear a bunch of leather....perhaps some of those tight, black plasticy looking pants instead? We can recycle them.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
possibly to mimmick what it actually sounded like during the VH1 broadcast.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
That's my new answer for everything.
I sort of hesitate to continue this discussion at all, but I think many have at least agreed that there was validation of the argument that it wasn't a very good response to say F them from both lefties and righties. So, that is probably all that needs to be said. Of course this post will bring out of the woodwork all those that loved the statement
As for my observation regarding Mike's reaction, take it or leave it.
Post #219 and beyond if you need a reference:
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=204147&page=2
And for the record, I didn't say I was leaving the band. That would be silly, but F em definately was a temporary turn off.