The Great "Fu*k 'em" Debate...

Pastor JeffD

a) can anyone hook me up with this show :P

b) this whole thing makes me giggle. People are actually trying to create some sort of rift between Mike and Ed because of some percieved expression on Mike's face. Other people are taking wayyyy too much pride in the fact that Eddie made the statement in the first place.

Why is that so supprising that Eddie would make that statement? The dude is, and always has been a bomb throwing lefty. Which of course is great by me, but the simple statement of "fuck em" doesnt really seem that odd or shocking.

c) PEARL JAM IS A PROGGRESIVE (LIBERAL) BAND. Geezus H Monkeyspank, read the lyrics. Read the lyrics. Read the lyrics. Besides, if anyone in the bad had any problem with Ed's views, dontcha think we woulda heard about them. Dont you think it would have scuttled the band before now. Bu$hleager anyone?

Sure, some band memebers probably think that Ed says some stuff they wish he didnt (same with u2 and Bono) but I think the music and thier support for their front man shows that they pretty much agree.

d) so fuckin what. As Springsteen says - trust the art and not the artist. Miles Davis was supposed to be a tremendous ass, but that doesnt mean Ill stop listening. Chuck Berry peeped on women peeing, but that doesnt mean Ill stop listening.

If Eddie and PJ are Leftist Zinn-loving Bush haters - but you like the tunes... so be it. If you love Reagan, Shrub, and Ann Coulter but also love Marker in The Sand - great... so be it.

Its about the art.

And above all else they are bizzaro-great artists.

decides2dream

if you read and participated in the 'debate' you'd see many know/realize exactly what you say here....even conservatives. discussing it does not equate 'surprise'. me, i support most of ed and the band's views so it's really easy for me...but i can certainly register one feeling hurt or disappointment of that statment beginning with 'fuck 'em'.

however, i agree COMPLETELY: it's ALL about the music.
thus why i can see why anyone would love it, b/c it is brilliant.

mammasan

decides2dream wrote:

if you read and participated in the 'debate' you'd see many know/realize exactly what you say here....even conservatives. discussing it does not equate 'surprise'. me, i support most of ed and the band's views so it's really easy for me...but i can certainly register one feeling hurt or disappointment of that statment beginning with 'fuck 'em'.

I can understand people being a little pissed about the statement but I think what was funny about that whole thread was this fabricated rift between Mike and Ed simply because of a perceived look in Mike's eyes. Some people had this whole elaborate scenerio devised simply because they thought Mike looked pissed. Regardless Pastor makes a good point, who cares what Ed said or if Mike did or didn't agree with it. Enjoy the band for what they are good at and that is the music.

decides2dream

mammasan wrote:

I can understand people being a little pissed about the statement but I think what was funny about that whole thread was this fabricated rift between Mike and Ed simply because of a perceived look in Mike's eyes. Some people had this whole elaborate scenerio devised simply because they thought Mike looked pissed. Regardless Pastor makes a good point, who cares what Ed said or if Mike did or didn't agree with it. Enjoy the band for what they are good at and that is the music.

well to be fair, that was maybe 2? posters...and only went on a few posts. all of it is conjecture and second-guessing for any of us to hazard a guess in one way or another, thus why i personally didn't bother with any of it.

my understanding of most of the threads was, what did one think of it? so i simply focused on that.

but absolutely..it IS the music.

Nevermind

People who take offense to it are sad. Especially the ones that said he was mike was smiling then when ed said hat he wasnt.

decides2dream

Nevermind wrote:

People who take offense to it are sad. Especially the ones that said he was mike was smiling then when ed said hat he wasnt.

why are they sad?
i don't think anyone was truly 'offended'...more like, disappointed. i am definitely a moderate, more left-leaning, and i was a bit disappointed. i am glad ed further clarified his point of view...but sure, i was disappointed a bit that in regards to a question regarding his fans - that he would start it off on that, that's all. humor or not, many a truth spoken in jest.

mammasan

decides2dream wrote:

well to be fair, that was maybe 2? posters...and only went on a few posts. all of it is conjecture and second-guessing for any of us to hazard a guess in one way or another, thus why i personally didn't bother with any of it.

my understanding of most of the threads was, what did one think of it? so i simply focused on that.

but absolutely..it IS the music.

Yes it was only a small handfull of people who where over analysing Mike's expression. I say screw it I don't listen to Pearl Jam because of Ed's political commentary I listen because of the music. So if Ed wants to mouth off about this or that fine with me as long as they play a kick ass set I'm happy.

Nevermind

decides2dream wrote:

why are they sad?
i don't think anyone was truly 'offended'...more like, disappointed. i am definitely a moderate, more left-leaning, and i was a bit disappointed. i am glad ed further clarified his point of view...but sure, i was disappointed a bit that in regards to a question regarding his fans - that he would start it off on that, that's all. humor or not, many a truth spoken in jest.

From someone who is usually sarcastic and wrote Bushleaguer and participated in VFC. What else would you have expected. If you are disappointed in a joke then stay away from comedy.

surferdude

Nevermind wrote:

From someone who is usually sarcastic and wrote Bushleaguer and participated in VFC. What else would you have expected. If you are disappointed in a joke then stay away from comedy.

Jokes are supposed to be funny. If it was Ed's attempt at humor he should stick to singing. If it in any way reflected his true thoughts then I'd think less of him for being close minded.

PaperPlates

Beaten to death already, but I think they expected more STORIES on STORYtellers.

Nevermind wrote:

From someone who is usually sarcastic and wrote Bushleaguer and participated in VFC. What else would you have expected. If you are disappointed in a joke then stay away from comedy.

Nevermind

surferdude wrote:

Jokes are supposed to be funny. If it was Ed's attempt at humor he should stick to singing. If it in any way reflected his true thoughts then I'd think less of him for being close minded.

It was funny. Everyone else in the building thought it was.

decides2dream

Nevermind wrote:

From someone who is usually sarcastic and wrote Bushleaguer and participated in VFC. What else would you have expected. If you are disappointed in a joke then stay away from comedy.

it was a serious question posed by a fan, that is all. i support most of ed's politics so i take no issue with any of...and fan of pj knows his political beliefs so i doubt anyone was expecting a different approach in that sense. i think merely, imo, they expected a seriuous question to be treated with respect, that is all. feel free to disagree..but sure, i was rather disappointed that ed chose to start off with that comment, in jest or not. no one was tuned in for comedy, we are all tuned in for music...and sure, know that ed would take the opportunity to discuss issues he feels important. i guess i merely thought as i have said elsewhere......it was rather insensitive. to me, to know you have fans with a different political perspective, and they still love your music and support you as artists...that they can see past it and still be into you...yea, i think they deserved more than 'fuck 'em' to start off. also too, do consider...many a conservative fan does not support bush, what's going on now, etc....they merely have a different perspective than ed in other ways perhaps....so sure, joke or not...doesn't seem the nicest/best/most effective way to speak to a contingency of your fans, or to be supportive of open-debate or to ask others to be open to your point of view. that is all. it has nothing truly to do with humor at all.


how do you 'know' everyone present thought it funny? you certain everyone there was laughing? and who cares if they were? i don't go by what 'everyone' else thinks/does to determine if i like/support something. and honestly too, if i were there i could easily see myself laughing....but still think it in poor taste. especially if i thought about it at all afterwards. it's easy top appreciate/see the humor when you agree with it.

mammasan

Nevermind wrote:

It was funny. Everyone else in the building thought it was.

Some people may have found it funny but it was unnecessary. Pearl Jam has the fans to thanks for everything they have and Republicans and/or conservatives are among those fans. I don't think he was serious and definetly believe it was a joke but it wasn't a good joke and he should at least be a little more respectfull of his fans. I know I would have been a little taken back if Ed made that comment in reference to some aspect about me.

Nevermind

decides2dream wrote:

it was a serious question posed by a fan, that is all. i support most of ed's politics so i take no issue with any of...and fan of pj knows his political beliefs so i doubt anyone was expecting a different approach in that sense. i think merely, imo, they expected a seriuous question to be treated with respect, that is all. feel free to disagree..but sure, i was rather disappointed that ed chose to start off with that comment, in jest or not. no one was tuned in for comedy, we are all tuned in for music...and sure, know that ed would take the opportunity to discuss issues he feels important. i guess i merely thought as i have said elsewhere......it was rather insensitive. to me, to know you have fans with a different political perspective, and they still love your music and support you as artists...that they can see past it and still be into you...yea, i think they deserved more than 'fuck 'em' to start off. also too, do consider...many a conservative fan does not support bush, what's going on now, etc....they merely have a different perspective than ed in other ways perhaps....so sure, joke or not...doesn't seem the nicest/best/most effective way to speak to a contingency of your fans, or to be supportive of open-debate or to ask others to be open to your point of view. that is all. it has nothing truly to do with humor at all.


how do you 'know' everyone present thought it funny? you certain everyone there was laughing? and who cares if they were? i don't go by what 'everyone' else thinks/does to determine if i like/support something. and honestly too, if i were there i could easily see myself laughing....but still think it in poor taste. especially if i thought about it at all afterwards. it's easy top appreciate/see the humor when you agree with it.

I would say at least 90% of them were laughing. It was a serious question Ed probably made a joke so he could have time to think about it. Would you rather here a joke or would you wait in silence for a minute or two while he thinks.

Nevermind

mammasan wrote:

Some people may have found it funny but it was unnecessary. Pearl Jam has the fans to thanks for everything they have and Republicans and/or conservatives are among those fans. I don't think he was serious and definetly believe it was a joke but it wasn't a good joke and he should at least be a little more respectfull of his fans. I know I would have been a little taken back if Ed made that comment in reference to some aspect about me.

What did you expect him to say.

Skitch Patterson

it was obviously a joke- and i say this from a right perspective.


and mike does seem to have SOME differeing views from ed. It just means he's not extreme left. I dont think he has any serious issues with eds politics, he just disagrees- just like i disagree with my mothers.

surferdude

Skitch Patterson wrote:

and mike does seem to have SOME differeing views from ed. It just means he's not extreme left. I dont think he has any serious issues with eds politics, he just disagrees- just like i disagree with my mothers.

From what I've read Mike seems to pretty much believe in the same state and federal politics as Ed and the rest of the band. But read the lyrics to Inside Job and you can tell that his more personal beliefs are very different than Ed's. And I can only assume that at times he feels uncomfortable that Ed's views get the press and are represented as the band's views where he disagrees. But he seems more than willing to take the good with the bad.

mammasan

Nevermind wrote:

What did you expect him to say.

I was not offended by the joke but that doesn't mean that I can't understand why some people would be. Many Republicans and/or conservatives, what ever you want to call them, have supported this band for years and I'm sure they are well aware of Ed's political views and probably doesn't bother them in the least. For Ed to say Fuck'em to a serious question asked of him is a little rude, regardless if it was a joke. Showing a little respect for the fans, even the ones who don't suscribe to your brand of politics shouldn't be much to ask. As for my expectations, they are that Ed and the rest of the band put on a fucking kick ass show when I see them in concert nothing more, nothing less.

decides2dream

Nevermind wrote:

I would say at least 90% of them were laughing. It was a serious question Ed probably made a joke so he could have time to think about it. Would you rather here a joke or would you wait in silence for a minute or two while he thinks.

personally, i rather he thinks...especially in regards to commenting about his fans. as i said, it really isn't important to me, i was not personally offended, but yes...it was disappointing. however, sure....in the scheme of things, means nothing truly to me. bottomline, i love his music and i do not look toward him or pearl jam for anything else. sorry if i could actually identify with someone who thinks a bit differently from me, possibly being hurt by it, that is all.

Nevermind

Ed also eplained himself after. you guys are just ignoring it. Ed also could have went on Storytellers and played Green Disease and Bushleaguer and talk the rest of the hour about Bush. Ed doesnt have to make the fans happy. But he does. Im sure if Ed knew that so amny people would try and start shit over one jake he wouldnt have said it. But the people who are offended are taking it way too serous. Also I think Mike pretty much agrees with Ed but he just isnt as extreme as Ed. The music is most important to Mike.

Eliot Rosewater

Pastor JeffD wrote:

a) can anyone hook me up with this show :P

b) this whole thing makes me giggle. People are actually trying to create some sort of rift between Mike and Ed because of some percieved expression on Mike's face. Other people are taking wayyyy too much pride in the fact that Eddie made the statement in the first place.

Why is that so supprising that Eddie would make that statement? The dude is, and always has been a bomb throwing lefty. Which of course is great by me, but the simple statement of "fuck em" doesnt really seem that odd or shocking.

c) PEARL JAM IS A PROGGRESIVE (LIBERAL) BAND. Geezus H Monkeyspank, read the lyrics. Read the lyrics. Read the lyrics. Besides, if anyone in the bad had any problem with Ed's views, dontcha think we woulda heard about them. Dont you think it would have scuttled the band before now. Bu$hleager anyone?

Sure, some band memebers probably think that Ed says some stuff they wish he didnt (same with u2 and Bono) but I think the music and thier support for their front man shows that they pretty much agree.

d) so fuckin what. As Springsteen says - trust the art and not the artist. Miles Davis was supposed to be a tremendous ass, but that doesnt mean Ill stop listening. Chuck Berry peeped on women peeing, but that doesnt mean Ill stop listening.

If Eddie and PJ are Leftist Zinn-loving Bush haters - but you like the tunes... so be it. If you love Reagan, Shrub, and Ann Coulter but also love Marker in The Sand - great... so be it.

Its about the art.

And above all else they are bizzaro-great artists.

Great post. I'd bet my life (and yours) on the fact that whatever Mike's expression was (I can't even remember this) it was nothing to do with what Ed said. Knowing VH1 and how they edit all this "reality" bullshit, I bet it was an entire different sequence of events that led to Mike's supposed expression anyway.

Also, I'll have Storytellers in mpg later tonight. You asked about that so there's your answer. I can help you out if you need it.

Nevermind

decides2dream wrote:

personally, i rather he thinks...especially in regards to commenting about his fans. as i said, it really isn't important to me, i was not personally offended, but yes...it was disappointing. however, sure....in the scheme of things, means nothing truly to me. bottomline, i love his music and i do not look toward him or pearl jam for anything else. sorry if i could actually identify with someone who thinks a bit differently from me, possibly being hurt by it, that is all.

If it doesnt mean anything to you why are you talking about it.

decides2dream

Nevermind wrote:

Ed also eplained himself after. you guys are just ignoring it. Ed also could have went on Storytellers and played Green Disease and Bushleaguer and talk the rest of the hour about Bush. Ed doesnt have to make the fans happy. But he does. Im sure if Ed knew that so amny people would try and start shit over one jake he wouldnt have said it. But the people who are offended are taking it way too serous. Also I think Mike pretty much agrees with Ed but he just isnt as extreme as Ed. The music is most important to Mike.

um, we got it.
still doesn't mean we can't still find fault with him starting off with 'fuck 'em'....is that so difficult? no one says ed *has* to do anything. just if you are going to preach about openess and tolerance...and then start off a line of questioning regarding your fans with varying perspectives, with a 'joke' like that.....well, sure to be a little disappointing to some.

nonetheless, i couldn't care less if you take no offense or a lot...but if you think i shouldn't care if ed makes a joke i found at the very least, in poor taste, why can you not afford me the same? why do you care what i think? it's merely my opinion. agree, disagree, makes absolutely no difference to me.

decides2dream

Nevermind wrote:

If it doesnt mean anything to you why are you talking about it.

i don't have to have 'meaning' in something to have an opinion on it. just b/c it doesn't effect me personally doesn't mean i can't empathize with those who it may effect.

Nevermind

decides2dream wrote:

um, we got it.
still doesn't mean we can't still find fault with him starting off with 'fuck 'em'....is that so difficult? no one says ed *has* to do anything. just if you are going to preach about openess and tolerance...and then start off a line of questioning regarding your fans with varying perspectives, with a 'joke' like that.....well, sure to be a little disappointing to some.

nonetheless, i couldn't care less if you take no offense or a lot...but if you think i shouldn't care if ed makes a joke i found at the very least, in poor taste, why can you not afford me the same? why do you care what i think? it's merely my opinion. agree, disagree, makes absolutely no difference to me.

I honestly dont care. I just dont like it being blown out of proportion. Its sjust a joke and no should be offended by a joke. If he was serious I could understand you being upset. Hell, id be upset if he was serious.

Nevermind

decides2dream wrote:

i don't have to have 'meaning' in something to have an opinion on it. just b/c it doesn't effect me personally doesn't mean i can't empathize with those who it may effect.

Youve said something. Then you said it again and again.

mammasan

Nevermind wrote:

I honestly dont care. I just dont like it being blown out of proportion. Its sjust a joke and no should be offended by a joke. If he was serious I could understand you being upset. Hell, id be upset if he was serious.

So by that logic a black person shouldn't be offended by an off-color joke then or a jewish person by a holocaust joke. I mean it's just a joke right.

decides2dream

Nevermind wrote:

I honestly dont care. I just dont like it being blown out of proportion. Its sjust a joke and no should be offended by a joke. If he was serious I could understand you being upset. Hell, id be upset if he was serious.

i am not upset. i used the word 'disappointed.' i am not blowing anything out of proportion. the subject was brought up, to me that means it's actually wished to be up for varying perspectives/discussion. if you don't like mine, that's fine...your choice...i am in no way trying to convince you or anyone else otherwise.

if i am getting too redundant for you, you can choose to ignore me.
my personal motivations for participating in this discussion, even over and over, if fully my own and i have no need to explain why i choose to participate. obviously, it interests me.

Nevermind

Its not the same thing. That would be racism. Which is way more serious. Ed wasnt serious where as someone making a racist joke is.

Nevermind

decides2dream wrote:

i am not upset. i used the word 'disappointed.' i am not blowing anything out of proportion. the subject was brought up, to me that means it's actually wished to be up for varying perspectives/discussion. if you don't like mine, that's fine...your choice...i am in no way trying to convince you or anyone else otherwise.

if i am getting too redundant for you, you can choose to ignore me.
my personal motivations for participating in this discussion, even over and over, if fully my own and i have no need to explain why i choose to participate. obviously, it interests me.

I understand. I just dont understand why a joke should disappoint you when he later explained himself and said he respects their views. Theres nothing in this world worth being serious or mad about.

mammasan

Nevermind wrote:

Its not the same thing. That would be racism. Which is way more serious. Ed wasnt serious where as someone making a racist joke is.

Ok what about a handicap joke, a blonde joke, a short joke, a bold joke, etc...