race relationships and racism

shmap

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

what? that sounds like liberal crap

Ravenna, I have another little question for you: why is it that, whenever someone has an opinion with which you don't agree, you instantly label that person as "liberal?" Instead of resorting to insults, why can't you keep level-headed and just have a discussion?

rebornFixer

shmap wrote:

I believe that Hope&Anger has a solid point. Clearly, any form of racism, no matter what the skin color of the victim, is pretty heinous. But, whether you like it or not, black people in this country still suffer indignities on a *daily* basis. H&A, if I've put words in your mouth, feel free to correct me

Well, I don't doubt that what you're saying is basically true, even though I'm not sure that the comment applies to ALL black people equally well.
The gringo comment, though? That's the sort of thing that reaches KKK levels of stupidity and is a cause for concern. We cannot let the pendulum swing so far in the other direction that the brown bigots get to say whatever the hell stupid-ass things they want either. I mean, that sort of thing is tolerated in a institution of higher learning? Fuck. Why not let skinheads teach geology, then?

RavennaSeattle1911

Ahnimus wrote:

They were cheering that Cochrane won the case for black people. Or so they thought anyway.

really!!

you have a link to prove that?in my mind they were cheering oj -maybe im wrong

why do you harp on one issue with no prove and ignore the issue of the brown bigot professor?

im bored

shmap

reborncareerist wrote:

Well, I don't doubt that what you're saying is basically true, even though I'm not sure that the comment applies to ALL black people equally well.
The gringo comment, though? That's the sort of thing that reaches KKK levels of stupidity and is a cause for concern. We cannot let the pendulum swing so far in the other direction that the brown bigots get to say whatever the hell stupid-ass things they want either. I mean, that sort of thing is tolerated in a institution of higher learning? Fuck. Why not let skinheads teach geology, then?

I totally agree with everything you've posted. I hope I didn't come off as down-playing what the professor said. It was absolutely a heinous (and of course racist) remark.

cincybearcat

Ahnimus wrote:

They were cheering that Cochrane won the case for black people. Or so they thought anyway.

Yep, then they are crazy. Well, at least slightly off kilter.

Hope&Anger

shmap wrote:

Part of the quote you're referencing is "We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him." Nobody's denying that it's a racist comment, so seriously, chill out. What on earth makes you so spiteful that would you say something like what's posted above?

I believe that Hope&Anger has a solid point. Clearly, any form of racism, no matter what the skin color of the victim, is pretty heinous. But, whether you like it or not, black people in this country still suffer indignities on a *daily* basis. H&A, if I've put words in your mouth, feel free to correct me

That's *exactly* what I was trying to say. Sorry for not saying so sooner, but I have to check out of the race threads -- they get me talking to myself. And, well, that's just not right.

And I also completely agree with everyone about the horrible racism coming from that professor. But are these crazy professor's rantings actually evidence that the pendulum is swinging back in the other direction? I don't think we should exaggerate the threat of what one loony person with tenure has to say at one college.

And it's not like there aren't notorious white racists on university faculties. When I was at Northwestern, there was an engineering professor who was one of the most famous Holocaust deniers in the world -- he couldn't go to Germany because there were warrants for his arrest -- and his web site "documenting" his claims had a Northwestern URL, and he taught intro courses that all engineering students had to take. And that went on for years.

rebornFixer

Hope&Anger wrote:

And I also completely agree with everyone about the horrible racism coming from that professor. But are these crazy professor's rantings actually evidence that the pendulum is swinging back in the other direction? I don't think we should exaggerate the threat of what one loony person with tenure has to say at one college.

And it's not like there aren't notorious white racists on university faculties. When I was at Northwestern, there was an engineering professor who was one of the most famous Holocaust deniers in the world -- he couldn't go to Germany because there were warrants for his arrest -- and his web site "documenting" his claims had a Northwestern URL, and he taught intro courses that all engineering students had to take. And that went on for years.

Hey, I bet this ass jacket was in Iran for the big conference!


And yes, I agree with your point re. the pendulum. We can't argue that it really has gone as far in the other direction as it once was ... The concern being that it theoretically COULD do so. I think its a legit concern that merits discussion, not a totally dismissive response like "Relax, whitey, go play polo or something". Not that you said that ... You get the drift. It merits discussion without someone having to be told that they should shut up because they've led this huge life of privilege. That kind of response gets ME talking to myself (not to mention looking for all these wonderful childhood memories).

Ahnimus

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

really!!

you have a link to prove that?in my mind they were cheering oj -maybe im wrong

why do you harp on one issue with no prove and ignore the issue of the brown bigot professor?

im bored

I already posted the PBS documentary that has interviews with people saying exactly what I said. Watch the episode #5 and hear it from the horse's mouth.

shmap

Hope&Anger wrote:

And it's not like there aren't notorious white racists on university faculties. When I was at Northwestern, there was an engineering professor who was one of the most famous Holocaust deniers in the world -- he couldn't go to Germany because there were warrants for his arrest -- and his web site "documenting" his claims had a Northwestern URL, and he taught intro courses that all engineering students had to take. And that went on for years.

It's still happening, actually! He caused a huge ruckus this past school year, I can't remember the specifics of what happened but everyone was up in arms.

::edit:: I found the article that I wanted to post, feel free to take a look: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/02/08/butz

Hope&Anger

reborncareerist wrote:

Hey, I bet this ass jacket was in Iran for the big conference!

I thought about looking for his name among the participants, but then, that would have required looking up the participants. And that would have been 10 minutes of my life I'd never get back. But yes, he was exactly the kind of ass jacket that would get himself invited to a vile conference like that. :rolleyes:

reborncareerist wrote:

And yes, I agree with your point re. the pendulum. We can't argue that it really has gone as far in the other direction as it once was ... The concern being that it theoretically COULD do so. I think its a legit concern that merits discussion, not a totally dismissive response like "Relax, whitey, go play polo or something". Not that you said that ... You get the drift. It merits discussion without someone having to be told that they should shut up because they've led this huge life of privilege. That kind of response gets ME talking to myself (not to mention looking for all these wonderful childhood memories).

I would never say that people shouldn't talk. I'm all in favor of that philosophy -- I hate what you say but defend to the death your right to say it. Talking is how we understand each other, even if we wind up disagreeing. I've listened while black people told white people stories about their encounters with the police. I've heard working class, white people tell black people stories about the disadvantages they face applying to schools, getting jobs, etc. And everyone learned from each other -- a beautiful thing!! And when everyone is respectful and empathetic and willing to listen, then we can all have actual conversations about what's happening and how to get past it.

Stop me before I sing Kumbayah!!!

Hope&Anger

shmap wrote:

It's still happening, actually! He caused a huge ruckus this past school year, I can't remember the specifics of what happened but everyone was up in arms.

::edit:: I found the article that I wanted to post, feel free to take a look: http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/02/08/butz

Thanks for posting that -- just amazing. I do remember the policy mentioned in the article of making sure that there were other professors available to teach his required courses. So students didn't *have to* take his courses.

What I've never understood is why Northwestern had to make its resources available to him to circulate this garbage. I mean, sure, there's academic freedom. But in effect, he's using company property for personal reasons, and surely that would be a justification to stop him.

Ick.

RavennaSeattle1911

theres a black history month but never any white or anglo history month

usa tries to kater to blacks and mexicans

i hate american tv

hippiemom

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

theres a black history month but never any white or anglo history month

There's eleven of them.

RavennaSeattle1911

hippiemom wrote:

There's eleven of them.

really?i wonder what they teach in us schools?probably davy crockett was bad and santa anna was some hero and that the whites were mean to indians

im part indian and id say all whites werent mean and indians were mean to indians

shmap

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

really?i wonder what they teach in us schools?probably davy crockett was bad and santa anna was some hero and that the whites were mean to indians

What, did you not go to school then? That explains some things :rolleyes: