race relationships and racism

RavennaSeattle1911

do you feel they are good in usa or uk or wherever?i think everyones just out for themselves except for the white "liberals"theyll help evreyone except ther own kind

am i crazy to think this?

cincybearcat

I think that in the US we have created a culture and an environment that immediately looks for differences in order to get offended over minor issues.

It very unfortunate and I believe many of the initiatives that have been put in place in order to try and resolve racial issues and tensions, like affirmative action and hate crimes, have actually created a wider gap between different races.

I think that if people stop being so stupid about everything and always 'playing the race card' after anything doesn't go their way that the true instances of racism would be more easily seen, and that they would also be seen with more criticism and more detest from people, eventually leading to improved race relations and a better living environment for all.

I also believe that no one cares what I think.

RavennaSeattle1911

i keep thinking about the oj verdict-didnt all the blacks or most just get so happy he got off and all the whites get mad?

during rodney king days they chanted" no justice no peace"-

well is there any peace?

with all these happy people that were glad he got off?they dont seem peaceful to me-not that theyre all like that i guess

then theres that professor jose angel guiterez in texas that hates whites or does he?

VictoryGin

cincybearcat wrote:

I also believe that no one cares what I think.

and there's the part i agree with

lalalalaaaaaaaa

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

do you feel they are good in usa or uk or wherever?i think everyones just out for themselves except for the white "liberals"theyll help evreyone except ther own kind

am i crazy to think this?

I wouldn't say you're crazy...just racist.

cincybearcat

Saturnal wrote:

I wouldn't say you're crazy...just racist.

And here we go. Thanks for the prime example.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

cincybearcat wrote:

And here we go. Thanks for the prime example.

Maybe you should be saying that to yourself, since I was just joking.

cincybearcat wrote:

I think that in the US we have created a culture and an environment that immediately looks for differences in order to get offended over minor issues.

cincybearcat

Saturnal wrote:

Maybe you should be saying that to yourself, since I was just joking.

Haha...now that is priceless...sarcasm is tough to read sometimes...well done.

EDIT: Thoughnot entirely true since I wasn't offended.

Pacomc79

It's really a non issue. It's only conflictual or shocking when people make it such.

If you're a culturalist fine, some people just don't gravitate to a particular culture thats fine, others do, also fine.

Really, ultimately it's not a big deal to me. Date and marry who you want.


It's a sign of progress to me. The younger generations are making less of a big deal about what race they happen to be.

I tend to believe that most people that have issues with the above are culturalist (they prefer their own culture or feel it superior to others) rather than racist (they feel a particular race is actually superior to another)

lalalalaaaaaaaa

cincybearcat wrote:

Haha...now that is priceless...sarcasm is tough to read sometimes...well done.

EDIT: Thoughnot entirely true since I wasn't offended.

RavennaSeattle1911

how do you feel about the weird story of howard stern how the "blacks"moved to his neighborhood and his mother wanted to stay and others left mainly and he was assulted a lot- like suckerpunched in class

his mother wanted to prove a point shes a "liberal"

RavennaSeattle1911

i do like blacks and i called congress we should help the blacks in sudan something i think most american balcks dont even bother to think about

do any blacks read this ,probably,do you discuss sudan?

some blacks i like others i dont i guess-in usa as well

blackredyellow

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

i do like blacks and i called congress we should help the blacks in sudan something i think most american balcks dont even bother to think about

do any blacks read this ,probably,do you discuss sudan?

some blacks i like others i dont i guess-in usa as well

and what do you base your ever-so deep knowledge of american black people?

Hope&Anger

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

how do you feel about the weird story of howard stern how the "blacks"moved to his neighborhood and his mother wanted to stay and others left mainly and he was assulted a lot- like suckerpunched in class

his mother wanted to prove a point shes a "liberal"

This is painfully tedious -- the piling on of anecdotes about how black people mistreat white people, about crazy professors at obscure universities who say inflammatory racist things about white, about how black people felt about the OJ verdict (oh, and I'd like to see some statistics about that last one rather than just hearing people's impressions).

Why not a list of the daily indignities of racism targeted at blacks -- being followed around in stores because of suspicion of theft; cashiers refusing to put change in black people's hands because they don't want to touch; being unable to rent apartments in "desirable" buildings; getting turned down for jobs; being denied credit; having teachers and professors talk to you like you're either an idiot or a speciman in a zoo. And of course, there's the treatment black people get from the police in the US (documented by statistics and everything).

And no -- these things don't happen to *every* black person. But why don't these anecdotes count for the same as the anecdotes of the poor beleaguered white guys who think that maybe sometime, somewhere, they lost out because of affirmative action.

floyd1975

cincybearcat wrote:

I also believe that no one cares what I think.

I care what you think. I also think you are right in this case.

hippiemom

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

how do you feel about the weird story of howard stern how the "blacks"moved to his neighborhood and his mother wanted to stay and others left mainly and he was assulted a lot- like suckerpunched in class

his mother wanted to prove a point shes a "liberal"

I feel that same way I feel when I think of the first black boy to go to my high school when I was there, in the 70s ... the only one out of almost 4,000 kids, who was tormented, teased, chased, beaten up, kicked down a flight of stairs. And this was in the north!

Or the same way I feel when I think about a black substitute teacher we had who asked a student to pick up a piece of paper that he'd thrown on the floor and was told "You're the nigger, you pick it up" and almost everyone in the class laughed.

No group has a monopoly on being picked on or abused, or on being abusers. There are assholes in every race, and it's wrong no matter who is doing it.

RavennaSeattle1911

blackredyellow wrote:

and what do you base your ever-so deep knowledge of american black people?

im american and white and part american indian from the south of a tribe there and i like jazz and blues?

lol

RavennaSeattle1911

hippiemom wrote:

I feel that same way I feel when I think of the first black boy to go to my high school when I was there, in the 70s ... the only one out of almost 4,000 kids, who was tormented, teased, chased, beaten up, kicked down a flight of stairs. And this was in the north!

Or the same way I feel when I think about a black substitute teacher we had who asked a student to pick up a piece of paper that he'd thrown on the floor and was told "You're the nigger, you pick it up" and almost everyone in the class laughed.

No group has a monopoly on being picked on or abused, or on being abusers. There are assholes in every race, and it's wrong no matter who is doing it.

i agree ,,thats very sad- both stories

Uncle Leo

Like Cincybearcat, I don't believe anybody cares what I think (and like Cincybearcat, I'll use a ... )

My take is that we actually need to have more dialogue on race. Usually when people talk about race, everyone gets nervous. Some don't want to hear it because racism died in 1964. Some are scarred they'll say the wrong thing, and others are very quick to accuse people of racism.

Nevertheless, I wish there was a more open dialogue. For example, blacks make less money than whites. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but this is a fact. Me knowing this and saying this does not make me a racist. But people should explore why this is. Is it because they are less interested in making money? Because they are not as intelligent? Because they do not have the work ethic? Or is there another reason (like, in my opinion, the unrealistic notion that they should have "caught" whites in the last generation and a half).

Unfortunately you get some people quick to point out the double standards and come to whitey's side and others that are always standing up for the historically oppressed minority. But not really a dialogue.

Just because you mention and discuss race does not mean you are a racist. On the other hand, just because you don't use the n-word, does not mean that you are not.

RavennaSeattle1911

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=226205

other reference to oj verdict there

Hope&Anger

Uncle Leo wrote:

Like Cincybearcat, I don't believe anybody cares what I think (and like Cincybearcat, I'll use a ... )

My take is that we actually need to have more dialogue on race. Usually when people talk about race, everyone gets nervous. Some don't want to hear it because racism died in 1964. Some are scarred they'll say the wrong thing, and others are very quick to accuse people of racism.

Nevertheless, I wish there was a more open dialogue. For example, blacks make less money than whites. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but this is a fact. Me knowing this and saying this does not make me a racist. But people should explore why this is. Is it because they are less interested in making money? Because they are not as intelligent? Because they do not have the work ethic? Or is there another reason (like, in my opinion, the unrealistic notion that they should have "caught" whites in the last generation and a half).

Unfortunately you get some people quick to point out the double standards and come to whitey's side and others that are always standing up for the historically oppressed minority. But not really a dialogue.

Just because you mention and discuss race does not mean you are a racist. On the other hand, just because you don't use the n-word, does not mean that you are not.

This is the most sensible thing anyone has said about race on the board in a long time.

We could learn a lot just by listening to each other, and try to explain the way race affects our everyday lives rather than getting goaded by all the sensational stories on both sides.

Hope&Anger

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=226205

other reference to oj verdict there

First, who cares about the OJ verdict? That happened like what -- 10 years ago?

Second, why not follow Uncle Leo's lead and ask *why* that small group of black people might have had that reaction?

RavennaSeattle1911

i remember polls then of blacks and whites with very difernt opinioins

Pacomc79

Uncle Leo wrote:

Like Cincybearcat, I don't believe anybody cares what I think (and like Cincybearcat, I'll use a ... )

My take is that we actually need to have more dialogue on race. Usually when people talk about race, everyone gets nervous. Some don't want to hear it because racism died in 1964. Some are scarred they'll say the wrong thing, and others are very quick to accuse people of racism.

Nevertheless, I wish there was a more open dialogue. For example, blacks make less money than whites. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but this is a fact. Me knowing this and saying this does not make me a racist. But people should explore why this is. Is it because they are less interested in making money? Because they are not as intelligent? Because they do not have the work ethic? Or is there another reason (like, in my opinion, the unrealistic notion that they should have "caught" whites in the last generation and a half).

Unfortunately you get some people quick to point out the double standards and come to whitey's side and others that are always standing up for the historically oppressed minority. But not really a dialogue.

Just because you mention and discuss race does not mean you are a racist. On the other hand, just because you don't use the n-word, does not mean that you are not.

Well done Uncle Leo, great points. It's remarkably hard to cut through the bullshit and get to good dialog that can progress everyone. It's a sensitive subject for a lot of people and for good reason. We need to find the roots of the issues so we can start working out solutions. A lot of times a simple communication disconnect can cause friction. Peceptions alone cause problems. The kind of stuff that H&A said earlier that many white people don't even think twice about. It can be very frustrating and that leads to anger.

rebornFixer

cincybearcat wrote:

I think that in the US we have created a culture and an environment that immediately looks for differences in order to get offended over minor issues.

It very unfortunate and I believe many of the initiatives that have been put in place in order to try and resolve racial issues and tensions, like affirmative action and hate crimes, have actually created a wider gap between different races.

I think that if people stop being so stupid about everything and always 'playing the race card' after anything doesn't go their way that the true instances of racism would be more easily seen, and that they would also be seen with more criticism and more detest from people, eventually leading to improved race relations and a better living environment for all.

I agree strongly with this post.

rebornFixer

Hope&Anger wrote:

Second, why not follow Uncle Leo's lead and ask *why* that small group of black people might have had that reaction?

I could ask why, but you probably wouldn't like my answer to the question.

rebornFixer

Hope&Anger wrote:

This is painfully tedious -- the piling on of anecdotes about how black people mistreat white people, about crazy professors at obscure universities who say inflammatory racist things about white, about how black people felt about the OJ verdict (oh, and I'd like to see some statistics about that last one rather than just hearing people's impressions).

Why not a list of the daily indignities of racism targeted at blacks -- being followed around in stores because of suspicion of theft; cashiers refusing to put change in black people's hands because they don't want to touch; being unable to rent apartments in "desirable" buildings; getting turned down for jobs; being denied credit; having teachers and professors talk to you like you're either an idiot or a speciman in a zoo. And of course, there's the treatment black people get from the police in the US (documented by statistics and everything).

And no -- these things don't happen to *every* black person. But why don't these anecdotes count for the same as the anecdotes of the poor beleaguered white guys who think that maybe sometime, somewhere, they lost out because of affirmative action.

This sort of response reflects EXACTLY what cincy was referring to ... And its an example of why people don't like to discuss race in this society.

Ahnimus

Hope&Anger wrote:

about how black people felt about the OJ verdict (oh, and I'd like to see some statistics about that last one rather than just hearing people's impressions).

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/oj/view/5_hi.html

PBS Frontline did a documentary series on the O.J. Verdict. Chapter 5, linked above has interviews with black people clearly stating they thought he was guilty but cheered for the verdict.

You can watch the whole series here
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/oj/view/

Hope&Anger

reborncareerist wrote:

This sort of response reflects EXACTLY what cincy was referring to ... And its an example of why people don't like to discuss race in this society.

Well, I'm sorry that you feel that. But the way I look at it, it's part of the dialogue that Uncle Leo suggested. I read an awful lot of posts on this board about the problems with affirmative action, about freaky professors wanting to exterminate white people, about responses to the OJ verdict.

But I assumed that part of the dialogue is learning what racial minorities still experience. And I'm not sure why hearing that racism directed at blacks and racial minorities still exists is perceived as so threatening to white people. I mean, why *don't* people want to talk about the fact that police treat black people much more harshly than they treat whites? It seems like a problem for all of us.

Ahnimus

Hope&Anger wrote:

Well, I'm sorry that you feel that. But the way I look at it, it's part of the dialogue that Uncle Leo suggested. I read an awful lot of posts on this board about the problems with affirmative action, about freaky professors wanting to exterminate white people, about responses to the OJ verdict.

But I assumed that part of the dialogue is learning what racial minorities still experience. And I'm not sure why hearing that racism directed at blacks and racial minorities still exists is perceived as so threatening to white people. I mean, why *don't* people want to talk about the fact that police treat black people much more harshly than they treat whites? It seems like a problem for all of us.

I think because it's personal bias. I run into racism all the time and I'm a white man. How is that possible?

Well according to any other minority, they have it worse and therefor any racism I encounter is null and void, because I'm the same color as the racists.

It's individuals, not colours. Racism, anti-racism, it's all fucking bullshit.

RavennaSeattle1911

Hope&Anger wrote:

This is painfully tedious -- the piling on of anecdotes about how black people mistreat white people, about crazy professors at obscure universities who say inflammatory racist things about white, about how black people felt about the OJ verdict (oh, and I'd like to see some statistics about that last one rather than just hearing people's impressions).

Why not a list of the daily indignities of racism targeted at blacks -- being followed around in stores because of suspicion of theft; cashiers refusing to put change in black people's hands because they don't want to touch; being unable to rent apartments in "desirable" buildings; getting turned down for jobs; being denied credit; having teachers and professors talk to you like you're either an idiot or a speciman in a zoo. And of course, there's the treatment black people get from the police in the US (documented by statistics and everything).

And no -- these things don't happen to *every* black person. But why don't these anecdotes count for the same as the anecdotes of the poor beleaguered white guys who think that maybe sometime, somewhere, they lost out because of affirmative action.

what?!!!!

do you know prof guitarezz is rumoured as saying? he said "maybe the hispanics will kill off the gringos"

if you dont think that is evil and racist i despise you and all like you

if he didnt say that then forget it