race relationships and racism

Hope&Anger

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=226205

other reference to oj verdict there

First, who cares about the OJ verdict? That happened like what -- 10 years ago?

Second, why not follow Uncle Leo's lead and ask *why* that small group of black people might have had that reaction?

RavennaSeattle1911

i remember polls then of blacks and whites with very difernt opinioins

Pacomc79

Uncle Leo wrote:

Like Cincybearcat, I don't believe anybody cares what I think (and like Cincybearcat, I'll use a ... )

My take is that we actually need to have more dialogue on race. Usually when people talk about race, everyone gets nervous. Some don't want to hear it because racism died in 1964. Some are scarred they'll say the wrong thing, and others are very quick to accuse people of racism.

Nevertheless, I wish there was a more open dialogue. For example, blacks make less money than whites. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but this is a fact. Me knowing this and saying this does not make me a racist. But people should explore why this is. Is it because they are less interested in making money? Because they are not as intelligent? Because they do not have the work ethic? Or is there another reason (like, in my opinion, the unrealistic notion that they should have "caught" whites in the last generation and a half).

Unfortunately you get some people quick to point out the double standards and come to whitey's side and others that are always standing up for the historically oppressed minority. But not really a dialogue.

Just because you mention and discuss race does not mean you are a racist. On the other hand, just because you don't use the n-word, does not mean that you are not.

Well done Uncle Leo, great points. It's remarkably hard to cut through the bullshit and get to good dialog that can progress everyone. It's a sensitive subject for a lot of people and for good reason. We need to find the roots of the issues so we can start working out solutions. A lot of times a simple communication disconnect can cause friction. Peceptions alone cause problems. The kind of stuff that H&A said earlier that many white people don't even think twice about. It can be very frustrating and that leads to anger.

rebornFixer

cincybearcat wrote:

I think that in the US we have created a culture and an environment that immediately looks for differences in order to get offended over minor issues.

It very unfortunate and I believe many of the initiatives that have been put in place in order to try and resolve racial issues and tensions, like affirmative action and hate crimes, have actually created a wider gap between different races.

I think that if people stop being so stupid about everything and always 'playing the race card' after anything doesn't go their way that the true instances of racism would be more easily seen, and that they would also be seen with more criticism and more detest from people, eventually leading to improved race relations and a better living environment for all.

I agree strongly with this post.

rebornFixer

Hope&Anger wrote:

Second, why not follow Uncle Leo's lead and ask *why* that small group of black people might have had that reaction?

I could ask why, but you probably wouldn't like my answer to the question.

rebornFixer

Hope&Anger wrote:

This is painfully tedious -- the piling on of anecdotes about how black people mistreat white people, about crazy professors at obscure universities who say inflammatory racist things about white, about how black people felt about the OJ verdict (oh, and I'd like to see some statistics about that last one rather than just hearing people's impressions).

Why not a list of the daily indignities of racism targeted at blacks -- being followed around in stores because of suspicion of theft; cashiers refusing to put change in black people's hands because they don't want to touch; being unable to rent apartments in "desirable" buildings; getting turned down for jobs; being denied credit; having teachers and professors talk to you like you're either an idiot or a speciman in a zoo. And of course, there's the treatment black people get from the police in the US (documented by statistics and everything).

And no -- these things don't happen to *every* black person. But why don't these anecdotes count for the same as the anecdotes of the poor beleaguered white guys who think that maybe sometime, somewhere, they lost out because of affirmative action.

This sort of response reflects EXACTLY what cincy was referring to ... And its an example of why people don't like to discuss race in this society.

Ahnimus

Hope&Anger wrote:

about how black people felt about the OJ verdict (oh, and I'd like to see some statistics about that last one rather than just hearing people's impressions).

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/oj/view/5_hi.html

PBS Frontline did a documentary series on the O.J. Verdict. Chapter 5, linked above has interviews with black people clearly stating they thought he was guilty but cheered for the verdict.

You can watch the whole series here
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/oj/view/

Hope&Anger

reborncareerist wrote:

This sort of response reflects EXACTLY what cincy was referring to ... And its an example of why people don't like to discuss race in this society.

Well, I'm sorry that you feel that. But the way I look at it, it's part of the dialogue that Uncle Leo suggested. I read an awful lot of posts on this board about the problems with affirmative action, about freaky professors wanting to exterminate white people, about responses to the OJ verdict.

But I assumed that part of the dialogue is learning what racial minorities still experience. And I'm not sure why hearing that racism directed at blacks and racial minorities still exists is perceived as so threatening to white people. I mean, why *don't* people want to talk about the fact that police treat black people much more harshly than they treat whites? It seems like a problem for all of us.

Ahnimus

Hope&Anger wrote:

Well, I'm sorry that you feel that. But the way I look at it, it's part of the dialogue that Uncle Leo suggested. I read an awful lot of posts on this board about the problems with affirmative action, about freaky professors wanting to exterminate white people, about responses to the OJ verdict.

But I assumed that part of the dialogue is learning what racial minorities still experience. And I'm not sure why hearing that racism directed at blacks and racial minorities still exists is perceived as so threatening to white people. I mean, why *don't* people want to talk about the fact that police treat black people much more harshly than they treat whites? It seems like a problem for all of us.

I think because it's personal bias. I run into racism all the time and I'm a white man. How is that possible?

Well according to any other minority, they have it worse and therefor any racism I encounter is null and void, because I'm the same color as the racists.

It's individuals, not colours. Racism, anti-racism, it's all fucking bullshit.

RavennaSeattle1911

Hope&Anger wrote:

This is painfully tedious -- the piling on of anecdotes about how black people mistreat white people, about crazy professors at obscure universities who say inflammatory racist things about white, about how black people felt about the OJ verdict (oh, and I'd like to see some statistics about that last one rather than just hearing people's impressions).

Why not a list of the daily indignities of racism targeted at blacks -- being followed around in stores because of suspicion of theft; cashiers refusing to put change in black people's hands because they don't want to touch; being unable to rent apartments in "desirable" buildings; getting turned down for jobs; being denied credit; having teachers and professors talk to you like you're either an idiot or a speciman in a zoo. And of course, there's the treatment black people get from the police in the US (documented by statistics and everything).

And no -- these things don't happen to *every* black person. But why don't these anecdotes count for the same as the anecdotes of the poor beleaguered white guys who think that maybe sometime, somewhere, they lost out because of affirmative action.

what?!!!!

do you know prof guitarezz is rumoured as saying? he said "maybe the hispanics will kill off the gringos"

if you dont think that is evil and racist i despise you and all like you

if he didnt say that then forget it

RavennaSeattle1911

Ahnimus wrote:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/oj/view/5_hi.html

PBS Frontline did a documentary series on the O.J. Verdict. Chapter 5, linked above has interviews with black people clearly stating they thought he was guilty but cheered for the verdict.

You can watch the whole series here
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/oj/view/

really? i didnt know they thought he was actually guilty

everyday just brings more bad news and revelations about the human race

i wish the world would end sometimes -sick of hearing sleezy things and news

Ahnimus

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

really? i didnt know they thought he was actually guilty

everyday just brings more bad news and revelations about the human race

i wish the world would end sometimes -sick of hearing sleezy things and news

Yea, but, I beg you to understand where these mobs were coming from as well. It's sad to know that the racial tension could lead a mass of people to support a murderer. But at the same time, the reasons why are comprehensible, at least as much as why O.J.'s wife was murdered.

RavennaSeattle1911

Ahnimus wrote:

Yea, but, I beg you to understand where these mobs were coming from as well. It's sad to know that the racial tension could lead a mass of people to support a murderer. But at the same time, the reasons why are comprehensible, at least as much as why O.J.'s wife was murdered.

what? that sounds like liberal crap

if you called michael savage and said that he would hang up!!

Ahnimus

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

what? that sounds like liberal crap

if you called michael savage and said that he would hang up!!

I honestly don't care who Michael Savage is and I would never call him.

It really doesn't matter what it sounds like. It's the truth.

RavennaSeattle1911

Ahnimus wrote:

Yea, but, I beg you to understand where these mobs were coming from as well. It's sad to know that the racial tension could lead a mass of people to support a murderer. But at the same time, the reasons why are comprehensible, at least as much as why O.J.'s wife was murdered.

i think people like you are incomprehensible and ridiculous as is crazy clarence darrow even though i also am against the death penalty

Ahnimus

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

i think people like you are incomprehensible and ridiculous as is crazy clarence darrow even though i also am against the death penalty

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Those people felt justified in cheering for Johnny Cochrane. Or, are you implying that several thousand African-American people are crazy?

RavennaSeattle1911

i thought they were cheering for oj,,why do you say cochrane?

RavennaSeattle1911

the rawanden massacre in 90s and how they got off easy with little time in jail makes me think africa is the most lenient on murder

yes some seem to be crazy in my opinion

seems like violation of standard judaio christian laws or the 7 noichide laws or whatever it is--afria seems to be in there own zone -it seems weird id say

Ahnimus

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

i thought they were cheering for oj,,why do you say cochrane?

They were cheering that Cochrane won the case for black people. Or so they thought anyway.

shmap

RavennaSeattle1911 wrote:

what?!!!!

do you know prof guitarezz is rumoured as saying? he said "maybe the hispanics will kill off the gringos"

if you dont think that is evil and racist i despise you and all like you

if he didnt say that then forget it

Part of the quote you're referencing is "We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him." Nobody's denying that it's a racist comment, so seriously, chill out. What on earth makes you so spiteful that would you say something like what's posted above?

I believe that Hope&Anger has a solid point. Clearly, any form of racism, no matter what the skin color of the victim, is pretty heinous. But, whether you like it or not, black people in this country still suffer indignities on a *daily* basis. H&A, if I've put words in your mouth, feel free to correct me