the pope is in hot water with the muslim world

The Waiting Trophy ManThe Waiting Trophy Man Posts: 12,158
edited September 2006 in A Moving Train
i haven't seen a thread for this yet, so here we go:


http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/15/pope.islam/index.html
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • You know it really just makes me shake my head....if you are so passionate about your faith (this goes to any faith) who really cares what the man nexts to you believe....to me to insult or to take offence to insult because of another's faith shows, at least to me, insecurity in your own beliefs.....or better a lack of complete understanding that other people choose to think differently that you.....the Muslim's who are insulted should just cool down and stop taking everything so seriously already.....

    I belive what I choose to believe and never become offended if someone believes something else....as long as you do not preach to me (unless I ask to learn) then I have no problem what people say.....
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    You know it really just makes me shake my head....if you are so passionate about your faith (this goes to any faith) who really cares what the man nexts to you believe....to me to insult or to take offence to insult because of another's faith shows, at least to me, insecurity in your own beliefs.....or better a lack of complete understanding that other people choose to think differently that you.....the Muslim's who are insulted should just cool down and stop taking everything so seriously already.....

    I belive what I choose to believe and never become offended if someone believes something else....as long as you do not preach to me (unless I ask to learn) then I have no problem what people say.....

    I agree. did you see how extreme their reaction is. its scary. its not like the pope was denoucing muslims or mohammad.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    I agree. did you see how extreme their reaction is. its scary. its not like the pope was denoucing muslims or mohammad.

    It is really getting tiresome already.....really just calm down and realize that it what you, as an individual, believes is what is important. Who cares if people choose not to think like you do.....Im really sick and tired of certain Muslims taking offence to everything said....for that matter anyone of the faith to be universal in my thought.....
  • I think it is pretty ironic that a group of people will become viloent because some one else said that their religion is one based on violence.
    Show me potato salald!!!
  • a greek orthodox church partially bombed? protests across the globe? why do muslims even care what the pope thinks or says....that is why i don't really understand. if the reverse scenario occured i can't imagine catholics bombing a mosque in retalitation.
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • qtegirlqtegirl Posts: 321
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I agree. did you see how extreme their reaction is. its scary. its not like the pope was denoucing muslims or mohammad.

    You've got to admit that the Pope has great influence over millions of people. Devout catholics believe every word that he says and do what he says (see DaVinci Code). If he says something bad... or not so good about another religion, a lot of Catholics will eat it up and start thinking that way too.

    We've gotta recognize that there's a great danger in that.

    What would we be saying if Ayatolla Khameini (sp???) said similar things about Christianity? Wouldn't the West be enraged too?
  • a greek orthodox church partially bombed? protests across the globe? why do muslims even care what the pope thinks or says....that is why i don't really understand. if the reverse scenario occured i can't imagine catholics bombing a mosque in retalitation.

    It's bordering on insanity really....and I am one who will defend the common Muslim man but I will not defend this child-like attitude of revenge for what someone says about my faith......
  • qtegirl wrote:
    You've got to admit that the Pope has great influence over millions of people. Devout catholics believe every word that he says and do what he says (see DaVinci Code). If he says something bad... or not so good about another religion, a lot of Catholics will eat it up and start thinking that way too.

    We've gotta recognize that there's a great danger in that.

    What would we be saying if Ayatolla Khameini (sp???) said similar things about Christianity? Wouldn't the West be enraged too?

    I know no Catholics would take this seriously......and its not like the Ayatolla has been one to speak fond words to those that belief different from him......
  • andychandych Posts: 130
    personally i think they are all crazy.
    dead head



    Bern 13/9/06
  • andych wrote:
    personally i think they are all crazy.

    No there are nuts in every faith.....I choose to respect only those who belief solomenly in their beliefs (practice what your faith preaches that is)...I have problems with those who need to act on those that think differently than them....which can found in any faith...to say to only Muslims is really unfair as lots would care less what the Pope says....because essentialy, in their vantage point, he is wrong (faith-wise) anyway so who cares...right?
  • It's bordering on insanity really....and I am one who will defend the common Muslim man but I will not defend this child-like attitude of revenge for what someone says about my faith......

    its just like after those cartoons were published and the insane reaction that followed them. as way of comparison christianity has suffered much more from "artistic" endeavours ie: the piss christ painting. i don't believe that the average muslim is like this. but if the west keeps only hearing about islam in relation to terrorism or child-like reactions such as this then any prejudice against islam will only continue to grow. the best reaction here would have being to say nothing at all.
    The wind is blowing cold
    Have we lost our way tonight?
    Have we lost our hope to sorrow?

    Feels like were all alone
    Running further from what’s right
    And there are no more heroes to follow

    So what are we becoming?
    Where did we go wrong?
  • acutejamacutejam Posts: 1,433
    There is a common negotiating tactic of beligerence ... to walk into a meeting and just initially throw a couple f-bombs and generally raise a huge stink because of a typo on the agenda or meeting request. Just totally lose it over something small initially.

    The folks sitting on the other side of the table watch this and wonder, "Oh man, if this is how they react to a typo on the agenda, what's going to happen when I ask for more concessions?"

    The muslim world has created a kind of analogy to this, what with speeches in America and elsewhere with thinly veiled threats of violence -- "If you continue these policies, I would think it might enrage folks, and then...." and the muslim world is backing up these thinly veiled threats with these reactions -- sowing the seeds to empower their representatives by demonstrating what happens when they become enraged.

    I totally think the Pope did this on purpose to cause just this effect and remind folks what we're dealing with. "Your intolerance of our violence and intolerance will make us violent!"
    [sic] happens
  • andychandych Posts: 130
    No there are nuts in every faith.....






    thats exactly what i meant..

    i have known this guy in sweden for 3 years now,i have worked with him and only in the last couple of weeks i found out (through a third party) that he is a serious practising christian,has played in the church choir since he was 6.
    my point?..
    he never tried to convert or bend my ear with it..
    religion is a personnal thing,its what gives you belief and hope and is not something you should be throwing at other people,OR using it as an excuse to attack other people who may have beliefs different from your own..






    utopia
    dead head



    Bern 13/9/06
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    qtegirl wrote:
    You've got to admit that the Pope has great influence over millions of people. Devout catholics believe every word that he says and do what he says (see DaVinci Code). If he says something bad... or not so good about another religion, a lot of Catholics will eat it up and start thinking that way too.

    We've gotta recognize that there's a great danger in that.

    What would we be saying if Ayatolla Khameini (sp???) said similar things about Christianity? Wouldn't the West be enraged too?


    he and they do denouce any religion beyond their own. are americans or catholics marching in the streets burning korans?
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Must just be the area of the world as they will protest over nothing at all to get some noise on the street!

    Sure they didn't burn of bomb or whatever your excuse of the day will be. But why don't they all just shut the fuck up and let people do as they will.


    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/3488370.stm
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,450
    These people can not have an open discussion in their society..just goes to show how backwards they are
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • seriously, i wonder how much damage has been done by this. like someone mentioned previously about the stink those cartoons of the prophet mohammad caused earlier this year. those were just cartoons. i think they should get an extra layer of bullet proof glass installed on the pope mobile. this could get really ugly. talk about a holy war!!
    Another habit says it's in love with you
    Another habit says its long overdue
    Another habit like an unwanted friend
    I'm so happy with my righteous self
  • You know it really just makes me shake my head....if you are so passionate about your faith (this goes to any faith) who really cares what the man nexts to you believe....to me to insult or to take offence to insult because of another's faith shows, at least to me, insecurity in your own beliefs.....or better a lack of complete understanding that other people choose to think differently that you.....the Muslim's who are insulted should just cool down and stop taking everything so seriously already.....

    I belive what I choose to believe and never become offended if someone believes something else....as long as you do not preach to me (unless I ask to learn) then I have no problem what people say.....

    Exactly. These people fly off the handle every single time anything is said, and I think its time to grow up and at least pretend that there's something real going on faith-wise. True believers don't particularly care if someone else says something against their faith.
  • qtegirl wrote:

    What would we be saying if Ayatolla Khameini (sp???) said similar things about Christianity? Wouldn't the West be enraged too?

    Look at what those damn comics with Mohammed did to the Muslim community? They freak over anything.

    Iran runs comics about the Holocaust, and the rest of the world yawns.

    So, no, the West would not be enraged.
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Here's what I don't get ... why do Muslims care what the pope says? They don't believe in his authority, so who cares?

    Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson blamed the collapse of the twin towers on me and people who think like me. I didn't go rioting in the street, I got a good laugh out of it and moved on. They are irrelevant to me, as is the pope, as the pope should be to Muslims. What are they all excited about?
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • hippiemom wrote:
    Here's what I don't get ... why do Muslims care what the pope says? They don't believe in his authority, so who cares?

    Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson blamed the collapse of the twin towers on me and people who think like me. I didn't go rioting in the street, I got a good laugh out of it and moved on. They are irrelevant to me, as is the pope, as the pope should be to Muslims. What are they all excited about?

    Maybe they fear the western world makes decisions based on religious faith and leaders much the same way some of us fear they do.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Maybe they fear the western world makes decisions based on religious faith and leaders much the same way some of us fear they do.

    They may fear that the Western world makes decisions based on religious faith...but that doesn't mean the Western world actually DOES make decisions on religious faith.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • hippiemom wrote:
    Here's what I don't get ... why do Muslims care what the pope says? They don't believe in his authority, so who cares?

    Also, there needs to be some separation here. Lumping all Muslims with the rioting crowd is like labeling all soccer fans rioters. There are factions that seem to get more worked up than others, especially given their personal circumstances.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Maybe they fear the western world makes decisions based on religious faith and leaders much the same way some of us fear they do.
    Most of the pope's power comes from people believing he has some sort of authority. They're only increasing his standing in the world by acting as though his opinion has any meaning for them.

    The same can be said for cartoonists. No power, beyond what is given them by people screaming in the streets.

    The Muslim world has a serious PR problem. A psych 101 class would do them a world of good. All their protests only give an unearned legitimacy to those who criticize them.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • hippiemom wrote:
    Most of the pope's power comes from people believing he has some sort of authority. They're only increasing his standing in the world by acting as though his opinion has any meaning for them.

    The same can be said for cartoonists. No power, beyond what is given them by people screaming in the streets.

    The Muslim world has a serious PR problem. A psych 101 class would do them a world of good. All their protests only give an unearned legitimacy to those who criticize them.

    Oh, I'm not saying they should worry about the pope. I'm only figuring why they do. They do hold alot of stock in their religious leaders and so it might have something to do with it. I think they fear themselves being demonized any further, as well...and are act out in the wrong manner to offset it. Like you said, they act out of these fears and people say 'See!! See!! They're hostile animals!!' They see Islamic countries being blown to bits and want to this to stop. The problems lies in their highly religious society were fanaticism leads to highly emotional and over-played responses. It's happening here, too...but we also have a good portion of level headed people to keep things much, much more calm and civilized.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Oh, I'm not saying they should worry about the pope. I'm only figuring why they do. They do hold alot of stock in their religious leaders and so it might have something to do with it. I think they fear themselves being demonized any further, as well...and are act out in the wrong manner to offset it. Like you said, they act out of these fears and people say 'See!! See!! They're hostile animals!!' They see Islamic countries being blown to bits and want to this to stop. The problems lies in their highly religious society were fanaticism leads to highly emotional and over-played responses. It's happening here, too...but we also have a good portion of level headed people to keep things much, much more calm and civilized.


    Its not happening here anywhere near the same level it happens in Islamic countries. Like hippiemom said, there religious leaders stir riots over a cartoon, where as the entire jewish world didnt care a bit about the holocaust cartoons. I think this type of thing is used as brainwashing, where their religiours leaders try and make there societies think the west is against Islam. When in reality, I think there real issue with the west should be our greed, not our desire to destory Islam.
  • dg1979us wrote:
    Its not happening here anywhere near the same level it happens in Islamic countries. Like hippiemom said, there religious leaders stir riots over a cartoon, where as the entire jewish world didnt care a bit about the holocaust cartoons. I think this type of thing is used as brainwashing, where their religiours leaders try and make there societies think the west is against Islam. When in reality, I think there real issue with the west should be our greed, not our desire to destory Islam.

    I know it's not. I said that. It's fairly obvious many of us don't give a shit about religious leaders say. I see religions as cult like and often destructive, no question. People here at least for the most part don't let it rule their life. But people in countries where suffering is high almost always are highly religious. They are hoping in some kind of afterlife much better than the one they currently have. This causes them to make horrible decisions and not focus on working on the world we live in now and ways of making it better for future generations.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • I know it's not. I said that. It's fairly obvious many of us don't give a shit about religious leaders say. I see religions as cult like and often destructive, no question. People here at least for the most part don't let it rule their life. But people in countries where suffering is high almost always are highly religious. They are hoping in some kind of afterlife much better than the one they currently have. This causes them to make horrible decisions and not focus on working on the world we live in now and ways of making it better for future generations.

    Its brainwashing. Most Islamic cultures are not open cultures and they dont have the diversity and information and ability to seek out information like we do. I am by no means trying to be insulting and saying we are more enlightened then they are, but, when all you know is your religion, then I would venture to guess that life has a different tone. As much as I agree that the west exploits these countries out of greed, I also think they are equally exploited by their leaders who use Islam as a form of control. Until their leaders step up then I dont see most of those societies progressing into a better future. What the Pope said wasnt a big deal and should be a means of discussion in the Islamic world, not a means of anger.
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    I know it's not. I said that. It's fairly obvious many of us don't give a shit about religious leaders say. I see religions as cult like and often destructive, no question. People here at least for the most part don't let it rule their life. But people in countries where suffering is high almost always are highly religious. They are hoping in some kind of afterlife much better than the one they currently have. This causes them to make horrible decisions and not focus on working on the world we live in now and ways of making it better for future generations.
    I understand that, and I'm not unsympathetic to their plight. I certainly do see that the average peaceable Muslim is being made to look bad. All I'm saying is that if they want to be seen differently by the world, they're going to have to present themselves differently to the world. What they say to their god is between them and their god, but what they say to the world is a public relations problem and they need to approach it from a public relations standpoint. And this nonsense of protesting every time someone says something they don't like is doing them way more harm than good. Just think how many people they'd win over if they'd laugh at the pope over something like this, rather than getting themselves all in an uproar.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    qtegirl wrote:
    You've got to admit that the Pope has great influence over millions of people. Devout catholics believe every word that he says and do what he says (see DaVinci Code). If he says something bad... or not so good about another religion, a lot of Catholics will eat it up and start thinking that way too.

    So.....Muslims all over the world go right ahead and prove his words to be accurate and truthful. Good job by the Muslims. Brilliant:rolleyes:
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