the pope is in hot water with the muslim world
The Waiting Trophy Man
Posts: 12,158
i haven't seen a thread for this yet, so here we go:
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/15/pope.islam/index.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/09/15/pope.islam/index.html
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
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I belive what I choose to believe and never become offended if someone believes something else....as long as you do not preach to me (unless I ask to learn) then I have no problem what people say.....
I agree. did you see how extreme their reaction is. its scary. its not like the pope was denoucing muslims or mohammad.
It is really getting tiresome already.....really just calm down and realize that it what you, as an individual, believes is what is important. Who cares if people choose not to think like you do.....Im really sick and tired of certain Muslims taking offence to everything said....for that matter anyone of the faith to be universal in my thought.....
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So what are we becoming?
Where did we go wrong?
You've got to admit that the Pope has great influence over millions of people. Devout catholics believe every word that he says and do what he says (see DaVinci Code). If he says something bad... or not so good about another religion, a lot of Catholics will eat it up and start thinking that way too.
We've gotta recognize that there's a great danger in that.
What would we be saying if Ayatolla Khameini (sp???) said similar things about Christianity? Wouldn't the West be enraged too?
It's bordering on insanity really....and I am one who will defend the common Muslim man but I will not defend this child-like attitude of revenge for what someone says about my faith......
I know no Catholics would take this seriously......and its not like the Ayatolla has been one to speak fond words to those that belief different from him......
Bern 13/9/06
No there are nuts in every faith.....I choose to respect only those who belief solomenly in their beliefs (practice what your faith preaches that is)...I have problems with those who need to act on those that think differently than them....which can found in any faith...to say to only Muslims is really unfair as lots would care less what the Pope says....because essentialy, in their vantage point, he is wrong (faith-wise) anyway so who cares...right?
its just like after those cartoons were published and the insane reaction that followed them. as way of comparison christianity has suffered much more from "artistic" endeavours ie: the piss christ painting. i don't believe that the average muslim is like this. but if the west keeps only hearing about islam in relation to terrorism or child-like reactions such as this then any prejudice against islam will only continue to grow. the best reaction here would have being to say nothing at all.
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So what are we becoming?
Where did we go wrong?
The folks sitting on the other side of the table watch this and wonder, "Oh man, if this is how they react to a typo on the agenda, what's going to happen when I ask for more concessions?"
The muslim world has created a kind of analogy to this, what with speeches in America and elsewhere with thinly veiled threats of violence -- "If you continue these policies, I would think it might enrage folks, and then...." and the muslim world is backing up these thinly veiled threats with these reactions -- sowing the seeds to empower their representatives by demonstrating what happens when they become enraged.
I totally think the Pope did this on purpose to cause just this effect and remind folks what we're dealing with. "Your intolerance of our violence and intolerance will make us violent!"
thats exactly what i meant..
i have known this guy in sweden for 3 years now,i have worked with him and only in the last couple of weeks i found out (through a third party) that he is a serious practising christian,has played in the church choir since he was 6.
my point?..
he never tried to convert or bend my ear with it..
religion is a personnal thing,its what gives you belief and hope and is not something you should be throwing at other people,OR using it as an excuse to attack other people who may have beliefs different from your own..
utopia
Bern 13/9/06
he and they do denouce any religion beyond their own. are americans or catholics marching in the streets burning korans?
Sure they didn't burn of bomb or whatever your excuse of the day will be. But why don't they all just shut the fuck up and let people do as they will.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/3488370.stm
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Exactly. These people fly off the handle every single time anything is said, and I think its time to grow up and at least pretend that there's something real going on faith-wise. True believers don't particularly care if someone else says something against their faith.
Look at what those damn comics with Mohammed did to the Muslim community? They freak over anything.
Iran runs comics about the Holocaust, and the rest of the world yawns.
So, no, the West would not be enraged.
Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson blamed the collapse of the twin towers on me and people who think like me. I didn't go rioting in the street, I got a good laugh out of it and moved on. They are irrelevant to me, as is the pope, as the pope should be to Muslims. What are they all excited about?
Maybe they fear the western world makes decisions based on religious faith and leaders much the same way some of us fear they do.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
They may fear that the Western world makes decisions based on religious faith...but that doesn't mean the Western world actually DOES make decisions on religious faith.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Also, there needs to be some separation here. Lumping all Muslims with the rioting crowd is like labeling all soccer fans rioters. There are factions that seem to get more worked up than others, especially given their personal circumstances.
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
The same can be said for cartoonists. No power, beyond what is given them by people screaming in the streets.
The Muslim world has a serious PR problem. A psych 101 class would do them a world of good. All their protests only give an unearned legitimacy to those who criticize them.
Oh, I'm not saying they should worry about the pope. I'm only figuring why they do. They do hold alot of stock in their religious leaders and so it might have something to do with it. I think they fear themselves being demonized any further, as well...and are act out in the wrong manner to offset it. Like you said, they act out of these fears and people say 'See!! See!! They're hostile animals!!' They see Islamic countries being blown to bits and want to this to stop. The problems lies in their highly religious society were fanaticism leads to highly emotional and over-played responses. It's happening here, too...but we also have a good portion of level headed people to keep things much, much more calm and civilized.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Its not happening here anywhere near the same level it happens in Islamic countries. Like hippiemom said, there religious leaders stir riots over a cartoon, where as the entire jewish world didnt care a bit about the holocaust cartoons. I think this type of thing is used as brainwashing, where their religiours leaders try and make there societies think the west is against Islam. When in reality, I think there real issue with the west should be our greed, not our desire to destory Islam.
I know it's not. I said that. It's fairly obvious many of us don't give a shit about religious leaders say. I see religions as cult like and often destructive, no question. People here at least for the most part don't let it rule their life. But people in countries where suffering is high almost always are highly religious. They are hoping in some kind of afterlife much better than the one they currently have. This causes them to make horrible decisions and not focus on working on the world we live in now and ways of making it better for future generations.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Its brainwashing. Most Islamic cultures are not open cultures and they dont have the diversity and information and ability to seek out information like we do. I am by no means trying to be insulting and saying we are more enlightened then they are, but, when all you know is your religion, then I would venture to guess that life has a different tone. As much as I agree that the west exploits these countries out of greed, I also think they are equally exploited by their leaders who use Islam as a form of control. Until their leaders step up then I dont see most of those societies progressing into a better future. What the Pope said wasnt a big deal and should be a means of discussion in the Islamic world, not a means of anger.
So.....Muslims all over the world go right ahead and prove his words to be accurate and truthful. Good job by the Muslims. Brilliant:rolleyes: