As a public school teacher how would you give a test on it? It's so open to various meaning that students of different theology would argue test questions and with good reason.
It would be a time killer and besides there's glaring historical inaccuracies.
Even teaching works of fiction in Literature class can be frustrating. Some parents get upset when we assign Fahrenheit 451 or Orwell's 1984. I can't imagine what it'd be like to try and tackle the Bible in a few weeks.
I believe that the church or home should be the best place to study your bible whether you study it secular or not.
As a public school teacher how would you give a test on it? It's so open to various meaning that students of different theology would argue test questions and with good reason.
It would be a time killer and besides there's glaring historical inaccuracies.
Even teaching works of fiction in Literature class can be frustrating. Some parents get upset when we assign Fahrenheit 451 or Orwell's 1984. I can't imagine what it'd be like to try and tackle the Bible in a few weeks.
I believe that the church or home should be the best place to study your bible whether you study it secular or not.
Yea, see, but people are amazed when I say "I've never read Animal Farm" because it was required reading for so many. I never read "Orwell's 1984" either. All very good reading. "Network" should also be required. Parents suck.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
As a public school teacher how would you give a test on it? It's so open to various meaning that students of different theology would argue test questions and with good reason.
It would be a time killer and besides there's glaring historical inaccuracies.
Even teaching works of fiction in Literature class can be frustrating. Some parents get upset when we assign Fahrenheit 451 or Orwell's 1984. I can't imagine what it'd be like to try and tackle the Bible in a few weeks.
I believe that the church or home should be the best place to study your bible whether you study it secular or not.
I understand the difficulties in trying to teach it in a public school, and it's a damn shame, because you can't really be literate (at least not in the Western world) if you don't have a working knowledge of the Bible. Many (possibly even most) writers allude to it ... hell, you can't even really understand a lot of song lyrics without knowing the Bible. It seems to me that you're going to miss a lot of the meaning in the things you read and listen to if you don't have at least some basic Biblical knowledge. We should study the Bible for the same reason we study Shakespeare, the great poets and philosophers ... you can't possibly understand everything that's come since without that background.
But as I said, the problems are obvious. I think there would be abuse on the part of teachers trying to be preachers, either for or against the message. I wish there were some way we could just read it the same way we read "King Lear," but I suppose there isn't. I'd encourage anyone who doesn't know it to study it on their own, because it's all around you whether or not you realize it.
By the way, I'm a devout heathen and I think it's pure fiction.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
i thought this was going to be a thread about how although American is a very Christian nation, most Americans are very ignorant about the Bible. i think children should be taught about the Bible under the stipulation that they are also taught about the Koran, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, the various forms of paganism and athiesm. but i'm sure Americans wouldn't go for all that.
The purpose of teaching the Bible in school is this;
English literature takes for granted that the reader knows the story of say "David and Goliath". Much of english literature uses references to biblical stories. So the purpose of teaching bible literacy is not to promote Christianity, but to equip children with the tools to interpret english literature.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
i thought this was going to be a thread about how although American is a very Christian nation, most Americans are very ignorant about the Bible. i think children should be taught about the Bible under the stipulation that they are also taught about the Koran, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, the various forms of paganism and athiesm. but i'm sure Americans wouldn't go for all that.
If you're studying the actual theology, I think that would be a separate class. As Ahnimus said, you need a basic background of biblical stories to be able to understand western literature. I'd like to think we could teach such a class, but people are so touchy about religion that we probably can't.
A class in comparative religion, which is what I think you're talking about, would also be an excellent idea, and also probably can't be accomplished for the same reason.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
If you're studying the actual theology, I think that would be a separate class. As Ahnimus said, you need a basic background of biblical stories to be able to understand western literature. I'd like to think we could teach such a class, but people are so touchy about religion that we probably can't.
A class in comparative religion, which is what I think you're talking about, would also be an excellent idea, and also probably can't be accomplished for the same reason.
Its weird. I've heard Richard Dawkins advocating teaching biblical literacy in school, for the reason stated above. Likewise, if you were studying arabic literature, you would need a sufficient understanding of the Koran.
However, its not going to be anti-theists like Dawkins that stops it from being taught in school. Its more likely theists who are afraid that it will be taught with a secular slant.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
The purpose of teaching the Bible in school is this;
English literature takes for granted that the reader knows the story of say "David and Goliath". Much of english literature uses references to biblical stories. So the purpose of teaching bible literacy is not to promote Christianity, but to equip children with the tools to interpret english literature.
as you well know. When I was a kid in school, we were exposed to Greek and Roman mythology and their effects on art and literature. That was in English Lit. In Social Studies we were exposed to the three branches of the US Government and their roles and rights. I was a 9th grade high school freshman, High Honor Roll Student, who soaked it all up in that first year and have never forgotten what I learned.
The following year, I moved to southern Florida, where in my English class I was taught where to place a comma in a sentence. I had no Social Studies class. Instead, I had Business Math, where I learned how to calculate mileage on a rental car and the interest on a loan.
If you're studying the actual theology, I think that would be a separate class. As Ahnimus said, you need a basic background of biblical stories to be able to understand western literature. I'd like to think we could teach such a class, but people are so touchy about religion that we probably can't.
A class in comparative religion, which is what I think you're talking about, would also be an excellent idea, and also probably can't be accomplished for the same reason.
well, i suppose you could/should incorporate the bible into a class about western civ.
I feel that if schools are going to introduce the Bible as a work of literature or as a reference tool to students, they should do the same with the Koran, Buddhist teachings, etc. as well as Greek and Roman mythology.
as you well know. When I was a kid in school, we were exposed to Greek and Roman mythology and their effects on art and literature. That was in English Lit. In Social Studies we were exposed to the three branches of the US Government and their roles and rights. I was a 9th grade high school freshman, High Honor Roll Student, who soaked it all up in that first year and have never forgotten what I learned.
The following year, I moved to southern Florida, where in my English class I was taught where to place a comma in a sentence. I had no Social Studies class. Instead, I had Business Math, where I learned how to calculate mileage on a rental car and the interest on a loan.
I dropped out.
Yea, I remember learning Roman and Greek mythology in social studies as well. In Ontario though, there is no Soc. Std. class. It's separated into Geography, History and Literature or some shit. But it sounds like the structure is better. I think I'd be illiterate without some understanding of mythology/theology.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I feel that if schools are going to introduce the Bible as a work of literature or as a reference tool to students, they should do the same with the Koran, Buddhist teachings, etc. as well as Greek and Roman mythology.
No omissions.
I see what you are getting at, and that is probably right. But there are a lot of texts that could be omitted if they don't pertain to literature. For example, Hinduism has a huge amount of texts that would take several years to learn.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I'm still thinking about the pros & cons myself. What are your reservations?
My reservations are that the Bible is not Shakespeare nor Dickens. It is too...personal for people to be taught in school. They don't have people read books on the Hindu religion. People don't have any respect for the Bible anymore, anyway, so what's the point? What good will it do?
I agree with what Urban Hiker said. All I'm saying is this...if it is indeed the Word of God, then it should not be so disrespected.
When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
My reservations are that the Bible is not Shakespeare nor Dickens. It is too...personal for people to be taught in school. They don't have people read books on the Hindu religion. People don't have any respect for the Bible anymore, anyway, so what's the point? What good will it do?
I agree with what Urban Hiker said. All I'm saying is this...if it is indeed the Word of God, then it should not be so disrespected.
Hinduism has nothing to do with english literature.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
My reservations are that the Bible is not Shakespeare nor Dickens. It is too...personal for people to be taught in school. They don't have people read books on the Hindu religion. People don't have any respect for the Bible anymore, anyway, so what's the point? What good will it do?
I agree with what Urban Hiker said. All I'm saying is this...if it is indeed the Word of God, then it should not be so disrespected.
It can be taught as literature. Kids can learn the stories as stories. If their parents want to teach them something beyond the story aspect, they will do so. We don't need to read Hindu literature because it's not referenced in practically every other book we read.
It's not about respecting the bible, it's about being literate.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Dan Dennett in his response to Pastor Rick Waren at TED suggests that we teach all facts about all religions in school. No values, but only facts. I'm assuming one of those facts is the literary significance of the stories.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Its weird. I've heard Richard Dawkins advocating teaching biblical literacy in school, for the reason stated above. Likewise, if you were studying arabic literature, you would need a sufficient understanding of the Koran.
However, its not going to be anti-theists like Dawkins that stops it from being taught in school. Its more likely theists who are afraid that it will be taught with a secular slant.
Ah! Thanks for the reminder ryan. I taped that Richards Dawkins special a coupla weeks ago and still haven't watched it.
Might snuggle up on the couch and do that now.
Ah! Thanks for the reminder ryan. I taped that Richards Dawkins special a coupla weeks ago and still haven't watched it.
Might snuggle up on the couch and do that now.
What Richard Dawkins special?!?!?!?!?!?
A new one?!?!?!?!?
And uh... How come Dawkins name is capitalized, but mine isn't?!?!?!?!?!?
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
It can be taught as literature. Kids can learn the stories as stories. If their parents want to teach them something beyond the story aspect, they will do so. We don't need to read Hindu literature because it's not referenced in practically every other book we read.
It's not about respecting the bible, it's about being literate.
I find this very interesting. The Bible is the world's most recognized work of literature. It has no faults, no inconsistencies and it does not contradict itself anywhere. It is huge, it is poetry, it is art. It can cause every feeling that is known to man. It is the greatest masterpiece ever, and yet, people see it as nothing other than a story book.
What. A. Shame.
(BTW, I have read a WHOLE lot...novels, biographies, informational books, autobiographies. I am really big on educating myself and experiencing every thing that I can. I am even writing my own book. Just I would like to let you know so that you would not call me ignorant. Thanks.)
When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
but there is a duplicate chapter in the Bible. It falls in the First Testament. I believe Kings carries the duplicate verses, but I could be wrong.
If you read the Bible from start to finish, you will see the duplicate verses in two different First Testament chapters, that I promise you. I myself have not had to prove this for many years, and so will drag out my old Bible and try to find it again.
But that there is a duplication, word for word, that carries on through many verses, I know as a fact.
There is also the contradiction between Jesus being born in Galilee and Nazareth.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
I taped it but forgot to watch it. But when I'm finished I'll read the book.
Got that here too, in the book reading queue!
And I can assure you it's just my sloppy typing today that messed with your capital Ryan! Or maybe it was a Freudian slip!
Ah ok, I've watched this 3 times on Youtube It's a gooder
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
but there is a duplicate chapter in the Bible. It falls in the First Testament. I believe Kings carries the duplicate verses, but I could be wrong.
If you read the Bible from start to finish, you will see the duplicate verses in two different First Testament chapters, that I promise you. I myself have not had to prove this for many years, and so will drag out my old Bible and try to find it again.
But that there is a duplication, word for word, that carries on through many verses, I know as a fact.
Let's race to see who finds it first, shall we?
I don't know what you are talking about, but when you find it, let me know.
When life gives you lemons, throw them at somebody.
celebrating the showdown in the US Senate tonight, I'm not sure. Just peruse the two chapters until you find that they are the same, starting with the Solomon thing I just quoted.
Comments
It would be a time killer and besides there's glaring historical inaccuracies.
Even teaching works of fiction in Literature class can be frustrating. Some parents get upset when we assign Fahrenheit 451 or Orwell's 1984. I can't imagine what it'd be like to try and tackle the Bible in a few weeks.
I believe that the church or home should be the best place to study your bible whether you study it secular or not.
Yea, see, but people are amazed when I say "I've never read Animal Farm" because it was required reading for so many. I never read "Orwell's 1984" either. All very good reading. "Network" should also be required. Parents suck.
But as I said, the problems are obvious. I think there would be abuse on the part of teachers trying to be preachers, either for or against the message. I wish there were some way we could just read it the same way we read "King Lear," but I suppose there isn't. I'd encourage anyone who doesn't know it to study it on their own, because it's all around you whether or not you realize it.
By the way, I'm a devout heathen and I think it's pure fiction.
English literature takes for granted that the reader knows the story of say "David and Goliath". Much of english literature uses references to biblical stories. So the purpose of teaching bible literacy is not to promote Christianity, but to equip children with the tools to interpret english literature.
A class in comparative religion, which is what I think you're talking about, would also be an excellent idea, and also probably can't be accomplished for the same reason.
Its weird. I've heard Richard Dawkins advocating teaching biblical literacy in school, for the reason stated above. Likewise, if you were studying arabic literature, you would need a sufficient understanding of the Koran.
However, its not going to be anti-theists like Dawkins that stops it from being taught in school. Its more likely theists who are afraid that it will be taught with a secular slant.
as you well know. When I was a kid in school, we were exposed to Greek and Roman mythology and their effects on art and literature. That was in English Lit. In Social Studies we were exposed to the three branches of the US Government and their roles and rights. I was a 9th grade high school freshman, High Honor Roll Student, who soaked it all up in that first year and have never forgotten what I learned.
The following year, I moved to southern Florida, where in my English class I was taught where to place a comma in a sentence. I had no Social Studies class. Instead, I had Business Math, where I learned how to calculate mileage on a rental car and the interest on a loan.
I dropped out.
well, i suppose you could/should incorporate the bible into a class about western civ.
No omissions.
Yea, I remember learning Roman and Greek mythology in social studies as well. In Ontario though, there is no Soc. Std. class. It's separated into Geography, History and Literature or some shit. But it sounds like the structure is better. I think I'd be illiterate without some understanding of mythology/theology.
I see what you are getting at, and that is probably right. But there are a lot of texts that could be omitted if they don't pertain to literature. For example, Hinduism has a huge amount of texts that would take several years to learn.
I agree with what Urban Hiker said. All I'm saying is this...if it is indeed the Word of God, then it should not be so disrespected.
Hinduism has nothing to do with english literature.
It's not about respecting the bible, it's about being literate.
Ah! Thanks for the reminder ryan. I taped that Richards Dawkins special a coupla weeks ago and still haven't watched it.
Might snuggle up on the couch and do that now.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
What Richard Dawkins special?!?!?!?!?!?
A new one?!?!?!?!?
And uh... How come Dawkins name is capitalized, but mine isn't?!?!?!?!?!?
What. A. Shame.
(BTW, I have read a WHOLE lot...novels, biographies, informational books, autobiographies. I am really big on educating myself and experiencing every thing that I can. I am even writing my own book. Just I would like to let you know so that you would not call me ignorant. Thanks.)
If you read the Bible from start to finish, you will see the duplicate verses in two different First Testament chapters, that I promise you. I myself have not had to prove this for many years, and so will drag out my old Bible and try to find it again.
But that there is a duplication, word for word, that carries on through many verses, I know as a fact.
Let's race to see who finds it first, shall we?
Nah it's probably old. It was a two parter on Compass on the ABC.
http://www.abc.net.au/compass/s1928351.htm.
Actually Compass has some pretty interesting programs on it and mostly are presented well fairly balanced
http://www.abc.net.au/compass/default.htm
You know if you can get passed Geraldine Doogue who has peeved me a few times with her efforts regarding euthanasia, but anyway.
http://www.abc.net.au/compass/about/doogue.htm
I taped it but forgot to watch it. But when I'm finished I'll read the book.
Got that here too, in the book reading queue!
And I can assure you it's just my sloppy typing today that messed with your capital Ryan!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Ah ok, I've watched this 3 times on Youtube
Everyone, pull out your Bibles, and go to KINGS 9:1
and then go to CHRONICLES 7:11
His childhood home was Nazareth, which is a city in the region of Galilee.
celebrating the showdown in the US Senate tonight, I'm not sure. Just peruse the two chapters until you find that they are the same, starting with the Solomon thing I just quoted.
*goes back to the Senate floor on CSPAN2*