US National ID Card Rules Unveiled -

melodiousmelodious Posts: 1,719
edited November 2007 in A Moving Train
US National ID Card Rules Unveiled - Hey Fundies! Here's your "Mark of the Beast"!

Homeland Security officials released long-delayed guidelines that turn state-issued identification cards into de facto internal passports Thursday, estimating the changes will cost states and individuals $23 billion over 10 years.

The move prompted a new round of protest from civil libertarians and security experts, who called on Congress to repeal the 2005 law known as the Real ID Act that mandates the changes.

Critics, such as American Civil Liberties Union attorney Tim Sparapani, charge that the bill increases government access to data on Americans and amplifies the risk of identity theft, without providing significant security benefits.

"Real ID creates the largest single database about U.S. people that has ever been created," Sparapani said. "This is the people who brought you long lines at the DMV marrying the people at DHS who brought us Katrina. It's a marriage we need to break up."

Homeland Security officials point to the 9/11 hijackers' ability to get driver's licenses in Virginia using false information as justification for the sweeping changes.

"Raising the security standards on driver's licenses establishes another layer of protection to prevent terrorists from obtaining and using fake documents to plan or carry out an attack," Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said in a press release.

The 162 pages of proposed rules (.pdf) require:


* Applicants must present a valid passport, certified birth certificate, green card or other valid visa documents to get a license and states must check all other states' databases to ensure the person doesn't have a license from another state.
* States must use a card stock that glows under ultraviolet light, and check digits, hologramlike images and secret markers.
* Identity documents must expire before eight years and must include legal name, date of birth, gender, digital photo, home address and a signature. States can propose ways to let judges, police officers and victims of domestic violence keep their addresses off the cards. There are no religious exemptions for veils or scarves for photos.
* States must keep copies of all documents, such as birth certificates, Social Security cards and utility bills, for seven to 10 years.

However, many difficult questions, such as how state databases will be linked or how homeless people can get identity documents, were left unanswered by the proposed rules. Citizens of states that don't abide by the guidelines will not be able to enter federal courthouses or use their identity cards to board a commercial flight.

Sophia Cope, a staff attorney at the centrist Center for Democracy and Technology, says the rules only mention privacy once.

"The Real ID Act does not include language that lets DHS prescribe privacy requirements, so there are no privacy regulations related to exchange of personal information between the states, none about skimming of the data on the magnetic stripe, and no limits on use of information by the feds," Cope said.

The Real ID Act, slipped into an emergency federal funding bill without hearings, originally required states to begin issuing the ID documents by May 2008. The proposed rules allow states to ask for an extension until Jan. 1, 2010.

Cope wants Congress to step in and rewrite the rules. The ACLU and Jim Harper, a libertarian policy analyst at the Cato Institute who specializes in identity and homeland security issues, agree.

"With five-plus years behind us, now is the time to be looking at what works and what doesn't work," Harper said. "Students of identification know that a national ID does not help with security."

Maine has already declared it will not follow the rules, and other states are close to joining that rebellion. In Congress, a bipartisan coalition is forming around bills that would repeal portions of the Real ID Act, but it is unclear if today's rules will slow or accelerate these efforts.
all insanity:
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • The two places you can not go without a Gestapo ID Card?

    a. a courthouse

    b. ON A PLANE

    thumbs way the fuck down, people.

    WAKE UP!

    !
    !!
    !!!
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • South of SeattleSouth of Seattle West Seattle Posts: 10,724
    I guarantee you'll be able to get one of these cards made from about 100 different websites when this comes out.

    "States must use a card stock that glows under ultraviolet light, and check digits, hologram-like images and secret markers. "

    Don't most state issued licenses already have this stuff anyway? Isn't that why they hold it under the blacklight when you go into a club? :confused:
    NERDS!
  • This only covers US citizens. Big whoop... what is that going to do in preventing a foreigner like say ...like....a Saudi Arabian from traveling to and fro?

    They're not going to be holding a frickn glowing piece of plastic.

    This is yet another waste money project that does little to nothing.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • melodiousmelodious Posts: 1,719
    What about coverting National ID card to live scan? This is a small speculation coming from a feeble mind, but I wouldn't be surprised if soon all those DUI checkpoints simply turn into Legitimacy check points.

    instead of that milk commericial, we'll see advertisements

    Got Papers? Got a birth-certificate?

    If no, off to a prison cell....

    Good day..

    Divine and Forgiving ONE...
    all insanity:
    a derivitive of nature.
    nature is god
    god is love
    love is light
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    I think most of you are exaggerating. But then again, it's the US.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I have a feeling these wont last long.
  • melodiousmelodious Posts: 1,719
    I have a feeling, it's gonna wreak a lot more havoc than you and I can even conceive...


    anyway, have a great day...

    I wish you an array of well-being and sound mind...

    peace..
    all insanity:
    a derivitive of nature.
    nature is god
    god is love
    love is light
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 16,054
    We already have social security numbers folks. WE ARE ALREADY NUMBERS IN THE SYSTEM. Why are you all so scared of advanced social security cards? It is like my parents being scared to buy stuff from the internet. Enough already.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,229
    Collin wrote:
    I think most of you are exaggerating. But then again, it's the US.

    i need to move the fuck out of the US ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    i need to move the fuck out of the US ..

    thats too bad. the US is a great place.
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 16,054
    i need to move the fuck out of the US ..

    Why? I'd like an intelligent answer, because our freedoms keep increasing, not decreasing.
  • Why? I'd like an intelligent answer, because our freedoms keep increasing, not decreasing.

    In what ways? Can you name a few?
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • Why? I'd like an intelligent answer, because our freedoms keep increasing, not decreasing.

    What the fuck are YOU talking about?

    Our freedoms keep increasing, huh?

    No WONDER we are screwed.

    The country doesn't even know UP from DOWN any more!
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    What the fuck are YOU talking about?

    Our freedoms keep increasing, huh?

    No WONDER we are screwed.

    The country doesn't even know UP from DOWN any more!

    what freedoms have you lost?
  • Protesting sure got fucked hard.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Protesting sure got fucked hard.

    not really. I saw at least 3 major protests here in chicago. thousands of people marched.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    what freedoms have you lost?

    Yeah. Well the ACLU has a list you can gloss over.

    But,
    Rolands comment for starters:

    1. Something about "protest zones" ... you can't do it anywhere you want. The government gets to designate where you can and can not protest. Huh? In South Carolina Brett Bursey faces six months in jail and a $5,000 fine for holding up a sign that read “No War For Oil” outside a speech by President Bush. The charge? Threatening the safety of the president.

    2. How about the right to be secure in my persons and posessions? You would argue the search and seizure clauses of the constitution are still upheld?

    3. The constitutional promies of sound money coined by congress vanished long ago.

    4. The right to pursue hapiness anyway i so choose? Can i smoke pot? Why not? Got an answer? Doubt it holds water.

    5. Wire taps, phone & internet records ALL being loged on a government super computer? No warrants needed? PRVIACY? ahem. Your response? Hah.

    6. The Real ID cards pose a real threat to your right to privacy!

    7. The right to property was erroded severely by Emminent Domain laws.

    8. What if they call me an "enemy combatant"? I can't dispute the claim in front of a judge. What rights have i then? hahah. The government is currently holding three men, including two U.S. citizens as “enemy combatants.” The longest serving one is Jose Padilla of Brooklyn. He has been held in solitary confinement on a military brig in South Carolina for over a year without access to an attorney, without a chance to appeal his case or to hear the evidence against him. He could be held forever without being charged with a crime.

    9. The right to bear arms? DC residents and hand guns? NYC concealed weapons permits? The second ammendment?

    I mean.
    ???
    Do you want to call me a fearmonger again and say this is all bullshit?

    You don't see some of this (at least, if not ALL of it) as VERY SERIOUS and sad? Not sad, downright pathetic, inexcusable and a slap in the face of the very ideas which this country was founded upon?

    HOW MUCH WILL YOU BLINDLY SWALLOW WITHOUT QUESTION!??!
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
    If I opened it now would you not understand?
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    not really. I saw at least 3 major protests here in chicago. thousands of people marched.

    You essentially get to protest in a box now. Deviate from where and how you're allowed to protest and how loudly and you're toast.

    It's not really called protesting so much as meekly walking along with signs.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 30,229
    Yeah. Well the ACLU has a list you can gloss over.

    But,
    Rolands comment for starters:

    1. Something about "protest zones" ... you can't do it anywhere you want. The government gets to designate where you can and can not protest. Huh? In South Carolina Brett Bursey faces six months in jail and a $5,000 fine for holding up a sign that read “No War For Oil” outside a speech by President Bush. The charge? Threatening the safety of the president.

    2. How about the right to be secure in my persons and posessions? You would argue the search and seizure clauses of the constitution are still upheld?

    3. The constitutional promies of sound money coined by congress vanished long ago.

    4. The right to pursue hapiness anyway i so choose? Can i smoke pot? Why not? Got an answer? Doubt it holds water.

    5. Wire taps, phone & internet records ALL being loged on a government super computer? No warrants needed? PRVIACY? ahem. Your response? Hah.

    6. The Real ID cards pose a real threat to your right to privacy!

    7. The right to property was erroded severely by Emminent Domain laws.

    8. What if they call me an "enemy combatant"? I can't dispute the claim in front of a judge. What rights have i then? hahah. The government is currently holding three men, including two U.S. citizens as “enemy combatants.” The longest serving one is Jose Padilla of Brooklyn. He has been held in solitary confinement on a military brig in South Carolina for over a year without access to an attorney, without a chance to appeal his case or to hear the evidence against him. He could be held forever without being charged with a crime.

    9. The right to bear arms? DC residents and hand guns? NYC concealed weapons permits? The second ammendment?

    I mean.
    ???
    Do you want to call me a fearmonger again and say this is all bullshit?

    You don't see some of this (at least, if not ALL of it) as VERY SERIOUS and sad? Not sad, downright pathetic, inexcusable and a slap in the face of the very ideas which this country was founded upon?

    HOW MUCH WILL YOU BLINDLY SWALLOW WITHOUT QUESTION!??!

    i believe you just summed up my worries pretty well there so thanks i'm not one of the blind mice ,it's good to keep options opened all the time or have a plan as to an exit ......
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Yeah. Well the ACLU has a list you can gloss over.

    But,
    Rolands comment for starters:

    1. Something about "protest zones" ... you can't do it anywhere you want. The government gets to designate where you can and can not protest. Huh? In South Carolina Brett Bursey faces six months in jail and a $5,000 fine for holding up a sign that read “No War For Oil” outside a speech by President Bush. The charge? Threatening the safety of the president.

    as you should. people get permits and follow rules to hold gatherings and whatnot. protesters should have rules to follow as well. otherwise they would undermine whatever is they are protesting.
    2. How about the right to be secure in my persons and posessions? You would argue the search and seizure clauses of the constitution are still upheld?
    other then someone taking your ron paul dollars how is this a problem?

    4. The right to pursue hapiness anyway i so choose? Can i smoke pot? Why not? Got an answer? Doubt it holds water.
    are you kidding me? you cant smoke pot for the same reasons you cant inject heroin or smoke crack. its an illegal drug. should we take away all of our laws so you can have fun?
    5. Wire taps, phone & internet records ALL being loged on a government super computer? No warrants needed? PRVIACY? ahem. Your response? Hah.
    you have something to hide? has your phone been tapped? no it hasnt. where is this super computer you speak of? sounds made up. wire tapping isnt allowed anymore so relax chief. I have all the privacy I need. I'd be a little more upset if we are turning into London. I'll stand right there with you if we get 10 cameras per person.
    6. The Real ID cards pose a real threat to your right to privacy!
    how? you already have a SS # personally I dont think the real ID bs will last.
    7. The right to property was erroded severely by Emminent Domain laws.
    you think this is something new? there is a fine line to be drawn when this happens. for example here in chicago, many lost their homes to clear way for a much need airport expansion.
    8. What if they call me an "enemy combatant"? I can't dispute the claim in front of a judge. What rights have i then? hahah.
    you are honestly worried about this? you have serious issues.
    wow you are defending this scumbag?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_(alleged_terrorist)

    José Padilla (born October 18, 1970), also known as Abdullah al-Muhajir or Muhajir Abdullah, is a United States citizen convicted of aiding terrorists. Padilla was arrested in Chicago on May 8, 2002, and was detained as a material witness until June 9, 2002, when President Bush designated him an illegal enemy combatant and transferred him to a military prison, arguing that he was thereby not entitled to trial in civilian courts. However, on January 3, 2006, he was transferred to a Miami, Florida, jail to face criminal conspiracy charges. José Padilla was found guilty of all charges against him on August 16, 2007, by a federal jury, which found that he conspired to kill people in an overseas jihad and to fund and support overseas terrorism. He is scheduled to be sentenced on December 5, 2007.

    9. The right to bear arms? DC residents and hand guns? NYC concealed weapons permits? The second ammendment?
    can you go to your local walmart and buy a gun. yes or no?
    I mean.
    ???
    Do you want to call me a fearmonger again and say this is all bullshit?
    you have given me nothing to be concerned about. I get up, go to work, create and innovate, have fun, live life. nothing in this country is holding me back from doing what I want.
    You don't see some of this (at least, if not ALL of it) as VERY SERIOUS and sad? Not sad, downright pathetic, inexcusable and a slap in the face of the very ideas which this country was founded upon?

    HOW MUCH WILL YOU BLINDLY SWALLOW WITHOUT QUESTION!??!

    CHILL THE FUCK OUT!!!! TAKE THE TIN HAT OFF AND GO OUTSIDE!!!!!!! GO GET SOME STRANGE ASS!!!!!!!! HAVE A FEW BEERS!!!!!!! BLAST SOME PEARL JAM MUSIC REALLY LOUD!!!!!!!!!HAVE SOME HOT CHICK SUCK ON YOUR BALLS!!!!!!!!
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    You essentially get to protest in a box now. Deviate from where and how you're allowed to protest and how loudly and you're toast.

    It's not really called protesting so much as meekly walking along with signs.


    this is absolutely utter bullshit. again, you arent even from here but somehow you know?

    the protest I saw in chicago were of a few thousand people. they marched through downtown and caused traffic jams for hours on end.


    I can stand on the corner all day (and some people do) with a sign that says impeach bush or bush is the worst president in history.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    i believe you just summed up my worries pretty well there so thanks i'm not one of the blind mice ,it's good to keep options opened all the time or have a plan as to an exit ......

    then you should get the fuck out and fast. I guarantee you will regret it.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    this is absolutely utter bullshit. again, you arent even from here but somehow you know?

    the protest I saw in chicago were of a few thousand people. they marched through downtown and caused traffic jams for hours on end.


    I can stand on the corner all day (and some people do) with a sign that says impeach bush or bush is the worst president in history.

    Bush's ideas somehow make their way northward in case you weren't aware of that fact. How many protest videos exist of cops teargassing and harassing citizens on the net?....lots.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Bush's ideas somehow make their way northward in case you weren't aware of that fact. How many protest videos exist of cops teargassing and harassing citizens on the net?....lots.

    lots? as in 1-2% of all protests nationwide? we are still free to protest whoever you want. with freedom comes responsibility.
  • JD SalJD Sal Posts: 790
    jlew24asu wrote:
    you have something to hide? has your phone been tapped? no it hasnt. where is this super computer you speak of? sounds made up. wire tapping isnt allowed anymore so relax chief. I have all the privacy I need. I'd be a little more upset if we are turning into London. I'll stand right there with you if we get 10 cameras per person.

    From AT&T whistleblower Mark Klein:

    "My job was to connect circuits into the splitter device which was hard-wired to the secret room," said Klein. "And effectively, the splitter copied the entire data stream of those internet cables into the secret room -- and we're talking about phone conversations, email web browsing, everything that goes across the internet."

    Asked by Olbermann how he knew what was being sent along those particular lines, Klein said it was all part of his former job:

    "As a technician, I had the engineering wiring documents, which told me how the splitter was wired to the secret room," Klein continued. "And so I know that whatever went across those cables was copied and the entire data stream was copied..."

    According to Klein, that information included internet activity about Americans.

    "We're talking about domestic traffic as well as international traffic," Klein said. " And that's what got me upset to begin with."

    Previous Bush administration claims that only international communications were being intercepted aren't accurate, Klein says.

    "I know the physical equipment, and I know that statement is not true," he added. "It involves millions of communications, a lot of it domestic communications that they're copying wholesale, sweeping up into that secret room."
    "If no one sees you, you're not here at all"
  • Uncle LeoUncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    We already have social security numbers folks. WE ARE ALREADY NUMBERS IN THE SYSTEM. Why are you all so scared of advanced social security cards? It is like my parents being scared to buy stuff from the internet. Enough already.

    I am not scarred of it, but this big-government liberal finds it to be incredibally wasteful. This is the kind of thing that almost makes me want to vote for Ron Paul. This is not worth even a fraction of the money it's going to cost.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    JD Sal wrote:
    From AT&T whistleblower Mark Klein:

    "My job was to connect circuits into the splitter device which was hard-wired to the secret room," said Klein. "And effectively, the splitter copied the entire data stream of those internet cables into the secret room -- and we're talking about phone conversations, email web browsing, everything that goes across the internet."

    Asked by Olbermann how he knew what was being sent along those particular lines, Klein said it was all part of his former job:

    "As a technician, I had the engineering wiring documents, which told me how the splitter was wired to the secret room," Klein continued. "And so I know that whatever went across those cables was copied and the entire data stream was copied..."

    According to Klein, that information included internet activity about Americans.

    "We're talking about domestic traffic as well as international traffic," Klein said. " And that's what got me upset to begin with."

    Previous Bush administration claims that only international communications were being intercepted aren't accurate, Klein says.

    "I know the physical equipment, and I know that statement is not true," he added. "It involves millions of communications, a lot of it domestic communications that they're copying wholesale, sweeping up into that secret room."

    I dont use AT&T but if I did, they might find out I check email and post on message boards
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    It's the fucking Mark Of The Beast.. and i don't even believe in the Mark Of The Beast.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    lots? as in 1-2% of all protests nationwide? we are still free to protest whoever you want. with freedom comes responsibility.

    I'm not there to see all of them, however, I have noticed police seem to be a little harder in the head and less tolerant these days in general.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    I'm not there to see all of them, however, I have noticed police seem to be a little harder in the head and less tolerant these days in general.

    you wouldnt know. you dont live here.
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