MT conseratives: can you vote for any of the (R) candidates and still sleep at night.

stupidcorporatewhore

slightofjeff wrote:

Nah. I'm saying, when it comes to certain things, I'm not sure big business needs to be further regulated. I'm not into punishing corporations for making money.

They've got to abide by the minimum wage, OSHA regulations, certain safety guidelines. They can't force a 12-year-old kid to work 80 hours a week for 50 cents an hour. I can get behind that. I can get behind regulations that prohibit stores from selling things that will knowingly kill us (ie lead painted toys).

But forcing a company to pay for health care, just because they can? Something about that doesn't quite sit right with me, and a free enterprise-ist.

Why not pass a law forcing Wal-Mart to pay $25 an hour, since they probably could afford it anyway?

you have a lot of double standards in your thinking.

I'm old fashioned. I believe a company owes it's employees a living.

and I definately believe that a happy employee is a good employee.

case in point, last regular job I had I stole everything I could get my hands on.

I said "fuck them and fuck their profits. I'm gonna get mine."

I guess I was republican and didn't even know it.

stupidcorporatewhore

jeffbr wrote:

All businesses are not Starbucks and Wallmart. Most businesses who don't have some sort of employee health care benefit are small businesses, and it would absolutely impact them.

If you don't like what WallMart sells, don't shop there. I've never shopped at WallMart and have no plans on doing so. They can do whatever they want. Nobody has to shop there, nobody has to work there. Everyone who puts a foot inside a WallMart store does so without coersion.

I support whatever programs require the least amount of coersion or force. If you schtick is use of force, that's fine, but regardless of your noble ends, those means aren't justified to me.

You're selfish and that's okay, seems to be fashionable these days.

jeffbr

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

You're selfish and that's okay, seems to be fashionable these days.

You're a thief and a looter and that's ok. Seems to be fashonable on this forum.

slightofjeff

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

you have a lot of double standards in your thinking.

I'm old fashioned. I believe a company owes it's employees a living.

and I definately believe that a happy employee is a good employee.

case in point, last regular job I had I stole everything I could get my hands on.

I said "fuck them and fuck their profits. I'm gonna get mine."

I guess I was republican and didn't even know it.

It's very simple.

Company says, "We'll pay you X amount and give you these benefits (or no benefits) to do this job for us."

If that isn't satisfactory, you don't take the job. You find a place that will pay more with better benefits.

If this is the best offer you can get, go to college. If you can't afford to go to college, take out a loan. Also, the government provides buttloads of college grants for the poor that the middle class can't touch. I pay for those with my tax dollars, and I have no qualms with that. Teach a man to fish and all that.

Rhinocerous Surprise

slightofjeff wrote:

It's very simple.

Company says, "We'll pay you X amount and give you these benefits (or no benefits) to do this job for us."

If that isn't satisfactory, you don't take the job. You find a place that will pay more with better benefits.

If this is the best offer you can get, go to college. If you can't afford to go to college, take out a loan. Also, the government provides buttloads of college grants for the poor that the middle class can't touch. I pay for those with my tax dollars, and I have no qualms with that. Teach a man to fish and all that.

They teach fishing in college now?! :eek::p

DriftingByTheStorm

OutOfBreath wrote:

I'm tempted to ask why military should be government responsibility, since they apparently half-ass everything? Shouldn't defence be out on the market and up to everyone to buy the protection they feel they need? Why not insurance plans including some armed guards here and there?

I'll tell you why.

United States Constitution
Article I, Section 8

---

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions

---

It is a CLEARLY ENUMERATED POWER within our constitution!

I'm not sure where you read anywhere in that mess a right or power handed over to the federal government for funding and operating "universal" healthcare. Or whatever the hell it is we're arguing the government should be responsible for this time. Wiping your ass, maybe?

This is just silly folks.
:sigh:

stupidcorporatewhore

jeffbr wrote:

You're a thief and a looter and that's ok. Seems to be fashonable on this forum.

a thief, yes, a looter? um, I don't think so. here's the definition

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/looter

or wait! maybe I'm a socialist!

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/socialist

either way, we are soooo done.

stupidcorporatewhore

slightofjeff wrote:

It's very simple.

Company says, "We'll pay you X amount and give you these benefits (or no benefits) to do this job for us."

If that isn't satisfactory, you don't take the job. You find a place that will pay more with better benefits.

If this is the best offer you can get, go to college. If you can't afford to go to college, take out a loan. Also, the government provides buttloads of college grants for the poor that the middle class can't touch. I pay for those with my tax dollars, and I have no qualms with that. Teach a man to fish and all that.

no wonder no one at Fry's electronics knows where the fuck anything is!

we're done as well. vote for a republican and enjoy you're theocratic dictatorship.

Skitch Patterson

this thread was nothing more than an attempt to bait and tell anyone with differing viewpoints how awful they are.

stupidcorporatewhore

Skitch Patterson wrote:

this thread was nothing more than an attempt to bait and tell anyone with differing viewpoints how awful they are.

you got me.

jlew24asu

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

You're selfish and that's okay, seems to be fashionable these days.

if only you can see how truly selfish and greedy you are. its sickening. and sad that you dont understand that.

jeffbr

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

a thief, yes, a looter? um, I don't think so. here's the definition

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/looter

Reading problem? Look at definition #2 of the noun. Stolen Goods.
Look at definition #2 of the verb. To take as spoils; steal.

Sounds right.

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

or wait! maybe I'm a socialist!

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/socialist

Sound about right, too. A socialist is an advocate of socialism, which is defined on the website you linked as:
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

That sounds like exactly what you're trying to crate. Glad you recognize it, too.

slightofjeff

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

They teach fishing in college now?! :eek::p

Trade school

slightofjeff

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

no wonder no one at Fry's electronics knows where the fuck anything is!

we're done as well. vote for a republican and enjoy you're theocratic dictatorship.

Aw, don't be like that.

OutOfBreath

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

I'll tell you why.

United States Constitution
Article I, Section 8

---

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions

---

It is a CLEARLY ENUMERATED POWER within our constitution!

I'm not sure where you read anywhere in that mess a right or power handed over to the federal government for funding and operating "universal" healthcare. Or whatever the hell it is we're arguing the government should be responsible for this time. Wiping your ass, maybe?

This is just silly folks.
:sigh:

Well, since I dont hold much respect for the US constitution apart from as a historical document, I really dont see the relevance. Constitutions and laws can be changed when people want it. So would it be if americans want universal health care like the rest of the west.

My question was general, in why some things will only be fucked up by the state, while the exertion of force apparently they can fuck up as much as they'd like since it says so on some old parchment. And particularly directed towards those that are fine with the US military and the way it works (and costs), yet have principal problems with state-funded health care.

Peace
Dan

stupidcorporatewhore

jlew24asu wrote:

if only you can see how truly selfish and greedy you are. its sickening. and sad that you dont understand that.

I am selfish because I think all should have health care?

please explain.

stupidcorporatewhore

jeffbr wrote:

Reading problem? Look at definition #2 of the noun. Stolen Goods.
Look at definition #2 of the verb. To take as spoils; steal.

Sounds right.



Sound about right, too. A socialist is an advocate of socialism, which is defined on the website you linked as:
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

That sounds like exactly what you're trying to crate. Glad you recognize it, too.

I'm a capitalist with socialist tendancies. that's the most I'm willing to give you.

polaris

slightofjeff wrote:

I agree with McCain's stance that we should have a strong, well-funded and proactive military. I agree with his stance that Iraq, in principle, was the right thing to do, but that the "securing the peace" portion was horribly botched, leaving us in the precarious position we are in today.

I agree with his stance that we can't leave Iraq a complete and utter mess.

I cannot, in good conscience, vote for any candidate that promises to withdraw troops immediately, regardless of the circumstance on the ground.

Either, A) They really mean it, and that's a stupid thing to promise without knowing what the circumstances are going to be when he/she takes office or, They're just pandering, which in my opinion would actually be the lesser of two evils in this case.

If McCain weren't so wishy washy on nearly every other issue, and if he weren't 71 and maybe a little senile, I might consider voting for him.

how can anyone at this point say Iraq was the right thing to do? ... the only purpose in Iraq was to send the country back a few decades, make it debt-ridden to the US and to award a bunch of no-bid contracts to engineering firms and defence contractors ... any other talking point is pure fabrication ...

jlew24asu

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

I am selfish because I think all should have health care?

please explain.

understanding that "free" healthcare is anything but free would be a start.

DriftingByTheStorm

OutOfBreath wrote:

Well, since I dont hold much respect for the US constitution...

oh ok.
:rolleyes: