Edwards and Obama are at least TALKING about things like boosting the middle class, healthy care and the (saving, not raping) the environment.
something we haven't seen in the past seven years much less from this pack of losers.
ahh yes, talk is cheap...what they want to do is far from cheap.
And I agree with you re: the republican (front runner) options.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
I wonder if any of the MT liberals could vote for any one of the 3 socialists and sleep well at night. oh wait, I forgot which forum I'm on.
Dude, US haven't had a serious socialist candidate for decades. Kucinich would be close, but he is really more of a (internationally) mainstream social democrat from what I have read. Compared to the world, you dont have a real left. You have middle and far right. You have the "go market!" crowd on the one hand, and the "go market!, but a couple of programs for the worst off" on the other. But all dedicated capitalists with a (more or less) firm belief in the market and it's invisible hand.
You may agree with them or not. But calling them socialists is an insult. Probably both for them, and for socialists everywhere.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine... its all mine
:rolleyes:
you know whats funny... the same folks that dont want to provide universal health care have no problem collectively providing $1 trillion dollars a year to our war machine, aka national defense... the military is run by the government, and you always beat your chest claiming to have the worlds finest military? so if the federal government can provide the worlds "greatest military" then why dont you have confidence that it could help provide (aka pay for it) the worlds finest health care
Because it's not a government's job. They will half ass it. read the other thread about other countries' plans. Long wait times. Can't choose your doctors. Won't pay for drugs.
I like the system I pay into now, where there is typically no wait, I can basically see any doctor I want, and drugs are covered.
It sounds like universal health care will be great for people who don't have insurance (the most oft-repeated phrase on the other thread is "better than nothing"). It sounds like it will screw those of us who already have health insurance, giving us something worse than what we already have.
I'm not a big fan of worse.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Because it's not a government's job. They will half ass it. read the other thread about other countries' plans. Long wait times. Can't choose your doctors. Won't pay for drugs.
Ehm, I could respond here with:
wait times depends very much on what and where
I can choose my doctor
Prescripted drugs will get covered.
I'm tempted to ask why military should be government responsibility, since they apparently half-ass everything? Shouldn't defence be out on the market and up to everyone to buy the protection they feel they need? Why not insurance plans including some armed guards here and there?
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Because it's not a government's job. They will half ass it. read the other thread about other countries' plans. Long wait times. Can't choose your doctors. Won't pay for drugs.
I like the system I pay into now, where there is typically no wait, I can basically see any doctor I want, and drugs are covered.
It sounds like universal health care will be great for people who don't have insurance (the most oft-repeated phrase on the other thread is "better than nothing"). It sounds like it will screw those of us who already have health insurance, giving us something worse than what we already have.
I'm not a big fan of worse.
Ah, fear, the poster child of post 9/11 America.
your opinion is on the record.
what if we met halfway and make all employers provide health care?
especially the ones who have more than enough money to do it and simply won't.
wal mart and McDonalds, I'm looking in your direction!
for businesses that (claim they) can't provide it, we give them a tax break or have a provider in place.
what if we met halfway and make all employers provide health care?
especially the ones who have more than enough money to do it and simply won't.
wal mart and McDonalds, I'm looking in your direction!
.
Not sure I'd be for that, either. I'd have to think through the economics. I'm not a big fan of governments meddling in business. If Wal-Mart were forced to pay for insurance, they'd simply pass on the cost to the consumer -- which means it hits me in the pocketbook anyway. Also, I'd imagine the folks that work at Wal-Mart are also among the people who shop at Wal-Mart -- meaning they are seeing a hike in the price of goods as well. It doesn't solve the problem. It just shifts money around.
Business is an open market, too.
If the price of Good X is too high at one place, shop somewhere else. If health insurance is important to you, don't work at Wal-Mart. Get a job somewhere with a health plan.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Not sure I'd be for that, either. I'd have to think through the economics. I'm not a big fan of governments meddling in business. If Wal-Mart were forced to pay for insurance, they'd simply pass on the cost to the consumer -- which means it hits me in the pocketbook anyway. Also, I'd imagine the folks that work at Wal-Mart are also among the people who shop at Wal-Mart -- meaning they are seeing a hike in the price of goods as well. It doesn't solve the problem. It just shifts money around.
Business is an open market, too.
If the price of Good X is too high at one place, shop somewhere else. If health insurance is important to you, don't work at Wal-Mart. Get a job somewhere with a health plan.
You'd actually trust big business to regulate themselves? Government shouldn't help protect us from them running over us? Yeah, good luck, little guy.
Starbucks and In n out burger can pay it, wal mart can pay it, period
poor wal mart, they'll have to make a shit-zillion dollars in profits as opposed to the fuck-tillion dollars they made last year.
how will they settle for the gold plated swimming pool as opposed to the diamond studded one?
Just curious, what about lead poisioning? Wal Mart is making a pretty penny bringing in shitty lead riddled goodes from China. Should our government restrict this? or do you say to them...
"If you want lead free products, shop somewhere else."
oh, that's right, we don't make anything in America anymore.
You'd actually trust big business to regulate themselves? Government shouldn't help protect us from them running over us? Yeah, good luck, little guy.
.
All businesses are not Starbucks and Wallmart. Most businesses who don't have some sort of employee health care benefit are small businesses, and it would absolutely impact them.
If you don't like what WallMart sells, don't shop there. I've never shopped at WallMart and have no plans on doing so. They can do whatever they want. Nobody has to shop there, nobody has to work there. Everyone who puts a foot inside a WallMart store does so without coersion.
I support whatever programs require the least amount of coersion or force. If you schtick is use of force, that's fine, but regardless of your noble ends, those means aren't justified to me.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
All of the candidates listed in the original post are republicans gone wrong...Ron Paul has such a clear and logical approach to many of our problems...specifically the economy and our foreign policy.
It is a shame that people cant see past the current disaster of a Republican party, and give Ron Paul an honest and unbiased look instead of just buing into what the media tells you to believe about him.
I hope all of his supporters remember to donate if they can on 1/21/08 (tomorrow)
You'd actually trust big business to regulate themselves? Government shouldn't help protect us from them running over us?
Nah. I'm saying, when it comes to certain things, I'm not sure big business needs to be further regulated. I'm not into punishing corporations for making money.
They've got to abide by the minimum wage, OSHA regulations, certain safety guidelines. They can't force a 12-year-old kid to work 80 hours a week for 50 cents an hour. I can get behind that. I can get behind regulations that prohibit stores from selling things that will knowingly kill us (ie lead painted toys).
But forcing a company to pay for health care, just because they can? Something about that doesn't quite sit right with me, and a free enterprise-ist.
Why not pass a law forcing Wal-Mart to pay $25 an hour, since they probably could afford it anyway?
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Nah. I'm saying, when it comes to certain things, I'm not sure big business needs to be further regulated. I'm not into punishing corporations for making money.
They've got to abide by the minimum wage, OSHA regulations, certain safety guidelines. They can't force a 12-year-old kid to work 80 hours a week for 50 cents an hour. I can get behind that. I can get behind regulations that prohibit stores from selling things that will knowingly kill us (ie lead painted toys).
But forcing a company to pay for health care, just because they can? Something about that doesn't quite sit right with me, and a free enterprise-ist.
Why not pass a law forcing Wal-Mart to pay $25 an hour, since they probably could afford it anyway?
you have a lot of double standards in your thinking.
I'm old fashioned. I believe a company owes it's employees a living.
and I definately believe that a happy employee is a good employee.
case in point, last regular job I had I stole everything I could get my hands on.
I said "fuck them and fuck their profits. I'm gonna get mine."
All businesses are not Starbucks and Wallmart. Most businesses who don't have some sort of employee health care benefit are small businesses, and it would absolutely impact them.
If you don't like what WallMart sells, don't shop there. I've never shopped at WallMart and have no plans on doing so. They can do whatever they want. Nobody has to shop there, nobody has to work there. Everyone who puts a foot inside a WallMart store does so without coersion.
I support whatever programs require the least amount of coersion or force. If you schtick is use of force, that's fine, but regardless of your noble ends, those means aren't justified to me.
You're selfish and that's okay, seems to be fashionable these days.
you have a lot of double standards in your thinking.
I'm old fashioned. I believe a company owes it's employees a living.
and I definately believe that a happy employee is a good employee.
case in point, last regular job I had I stole everything I could get my hands on.
I said "fuck them and fuck their profits. I'm gonna get mine."
I guess I was republican and didn't even know it.
It's very simple.
Company says, "We'll pay you X amount and give you these benefits (or no benefits) to do this job for us."
If that isn't satisfactory, you don't take the job. You find a place that will pay more with better benefits.
If this is the best offer you can get, go to college. If you can't afford to go to college, take out a loan. Also, the government provides buttloads of college grants for the poor that the middle class can't touch. I pay for those with my tax dollars, and I have no qualms with that. Teach a man to fish and all that.
everybody wants the most they can possibly get
for the least they could possibly do
Company says, "We'll pay you X amount and give you these benefits (or no benefits) to do this job for us."
If that isn't satisfactory, you don't take the job. You find a place that will pay more with better benefits.
If this is the best offer you can get, go to college. If you can't afford to go to college, take out a loan. Also, the government provides buttloads of college grants for the poor that the middle class can't touch. I pay for those with my tax dollars, and I have no qualms with that. Teach a man to fish and all that.
They teach fishing in college now?! :eek::p
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
I'm tempted to ask why military should be government responsibility, since they apparently half-ass everything? Shouldn't defence be out on the market and up to everyone to buy the protection they feel they need? Why not insurance plans including some armed guards here and there?
I'll tell you why.
United States Constitution
Article I, Section 8
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions
It is a CLEARLY ENUMERATED POWER within our constitution!
I'm not sure where you read anywhere in that mess a right or power handed over to the federal government for funding and operating "universal" healthcare. Or whatever the hell it is we're arguing the government should be responsible for this time. Wiping your ass, maybe?
This is just silly folks.
:sigh:
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
Company says, "We'll pay you X amount and give you these benefits (or no benefits) to do this job for us."
If that isn't satisfactory, you don't take the job. You find a place that will pay more with better benefits.
If this is the best offer you can get, go to college. If you can't afford to go to college, take out a loan. Also, the government provides buttloads of college grants for the poor that the middle class can't touch. I pay for those with my tax dollars, and I have no qualms with that. Teach a man to fish and all that.
no wonder no one at Fry's electronics knows where the fuck anything is!
we're done as well. vote for a republican and enjoy you're theocratic dictatorship.
Sound about right, too. A socialist is an advocate of socialism, which is defined on the website you linked as:
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
That sounds like exactly what you're trying to crate. Glad you recognize it, too.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
United States Constitution
Article I, Section 8
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions
It is a CLEARLY ENUMERATED POWER within our constitution!
I'm not sure where you read anywhere in that mess a right or power handed over to the federal government for funding and operating "universal" healthcare. Or whatever the hell it is we're arguing the government should be responsible for this time. Wiping your ass, maybe?
This is just silly folks.
:sigh:
Well, since I dont hold much respect for the US constitution apart from as a historical document, I really dont see the relevance. Constitutions and laws can be changed when people want it. So would it be if americans want universal health care like the rest of the west.
My question was general, in why some things will only be fucked up by the state, while the exertion of force apparently they can fuck up as much as they'd like since it says so on some old parchment. And particularly directed towards those that are fine with the US military and the way it works (and costs), yet have principal problems with state-funded health care.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Reading problem? Look at definition #2 of the noun. Stolen Goods.
Look at definition #2 of the verb. To take as spoils; steal.
Sounds right.
Sound about right, too. A socialist is an advocate of socialism, which is defined on the website you linked as:
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
That sounds like exactly what you're trying to crate. Glad you recognize it, too.
I'm a capitalist with socialist tendancies. that's the most I'm willing to give you.
I agree with McCain's stance that we should have a strong, well-funded and proactive military. I agree with his stance that Iraq, in principle, was the right thing to do, but that the "securing the peace" portion was horribly botched, leaving us in the precarious position we are in today.
I agree with his stance that we can't leave Iraq a complete and utter mess.
I cannot, in good conscience, vote for any candidate that promises to withdraw troops immediately, regardless of the circumstance on the ground.
Either, A) They really mean it, and that's a stupid thing to promise without knowing what the circumstances are going to be when he/she takes office or, They're just pandering, which in my opinion would actually be the lesser of two evils in this case.
If McCain weren't so wishy washy on nearly every other issue, and if he weren't 71 and maybe a little senile, I might consider voting for him.
how can anyone at this point say Iraq was the right thing to do? ... the only purpose in Iraq was to send the country back a few decades, make it debt-ridden to the US and to award a bunch of no-bid contracts to engineering firms and defence contractors ... any other talking point is pure fabrication ...
Comments
ahh yes, talk is cheap...what they want to do is far from cheap.
And I agree with you re: the republican (front runner) options.
You may agree with them or not. But calling them socialists is an insult. Probably both for them, and for socialists everywhere.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Because it's not a government's job. They will half ass it. read the other thread about other countries' plans. Long wait times. Can't choose your doctors. Won't pay for drugs.
I like the system I pay into now, where there is typically no wait, I can basically see any doctor I want, and drugs are covered.
It sounds like universal health care will be great for people who don't have insurance (the most oft-repeated phrase on the other thread is "better than nothing"). It sounds like it will screw those of us who already have health insurance, giving us something worse than what we already have.
I'm not a big fan of worse.
for the least they could possibly do
wait times depends very much on what and where
I can choose my doctor
Prescripted drugs will get covered.
I'm tempted to ask why military should be government responsibility, since they apparently half-ass everything? Shouldn't defence be out on the market and up to everyone to buy the protection they feel they need? Why not insurance plans including some armed guards here and there?
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Ah, fear, the poster child of post 9/11 America.
your opinion is on the record.
what if we met halfway and make all employers provide health care?
especially the ones who have more than enough money to do it and simply won't.
wal mart and McDonalds, I'm looking in your direction!
for businesses that (claim they) can't provide it, we give them a tax break or have a provider in place.
Not sure I'd be for that, either. I'd have to think through the economics. I'm not a big fan of governments meddling in business. If Wal-Mart were forced to pay for insurance, they'd simply pass on the cost to the consumer -- which means it hits me in the pocketbook anyway. Also, I'd imagine the folks that work at Wal-Mart are also among the people who shop at Wal-Mart -- meaning they are seeing a hike in the price of goods as well. It doesn't solve the problem. It just shifts money around.
Business is an open market, too.
If the price of Good X is too high at one place, shop somewhere else. If health insurance is important to you, don't work at Wal-Mart. Get a job somewhere with a health plan.
for the least they could possibly do
You'd actually trust big business to regulate themselves? Government shouldn't help protect us from them running over us? Yeah, good luck, little guy.
Starbucks and In n out burger can pay it, wal mart can pay it, period
poor wal mart, they'll have to make a shit-zillion dollars in profits as opposed to the fuck-tillion dollars they made last year.
how will they settle for the gold plated swimming pool as opposed to the diamond studded one?
Just curious, what about lead poisioning? Wal Mart is making a pretty penny bringing in shitty lead riddled goodes from China. Should our government restrict this? or do you say to them...
"If you want lead free products, shop somewhere else."
oh, that's right, we don't make anything in America anymore.
All businesses are not Starbucks and Wallmart. Most businesses who don't have some sort of employee health care benefit are small businesses, and it would absolutely impact them.
If you don't like what WallMart sells, don't shop there. I've never shopped at WallMart and have no plans on doing so. They can do whatever they want. Nobody has to shop there, nobody has to work there. Everyone who puts a foot inside a WallMart store does so without coersion.
I support whatever programs require the least amount of coersion or force. If you schtick is use of force, that's fine, but regardless of your noble ends, those means aren't justified to me.
It is a shame that people cant see past the current disaster of a Republican party, and give Ron Paul an honest and unbiased look instead of just buing into what the media tells you to believe about him.
I hope all of his supporters remember to donate if they can on 1/21/08 (tomorrow)
http://www.freeatlast2008.com
http://www.ronpaulforums.com
Nah. I'm saying, when it comes to certain things, I'm not sure big business needs to be further regulated. I'm not into punishing corporations for making money.
They've got to abide by the minimum wage, OSHA regulations, certain safety guidelines. They can't force a 12-year-old kid to work 80 hours a week for 50 cents an hour. I can get behind that. I can get behind regulations that prohibit stores from selling things that will knowingly kill us (ie lead painted toys).
But forcing a company to pay for health care, just because they can? Something about that doesn't quite sit right with me, and a free enterprise-ist.
Why not pass a law forcing Wal-Mart to pay $25 an hour, since they probably could afford it anyway?
for the least they could possibly do
you have a lot of double standards in your thinking.
I'm old fashioned. I believe a company owes it's employees a living.
and I definately believe that a happy employee is a good employee.
case in point, last regular job I had I stole everything I could get my hands on.
I said "fuck them and fuck their profits. I'm gonna get mine."
I guess I was republican and didn't even know it.
You're selfish and that's okay, seems to be fashionable these days.
You're a thief and a looter and that's ok. Seems to be fashonable on this forum.
It's very simple.
Company says, "We'll pay you X amount and give you these benefits (or no benefits) to do this job for us."
If that isn't satisfactory, you don't take the job. You find a place that will pay more with better benefits.
If this is the best offer you can get, go to college. If you can't afford to go to college, take out a loan. Also, the government provides buttloads of college grants for the poor that the middle class can't touch. I pay for those with my tax dollars, and I have no qualms with that. Teach a man to fish and all that.
for the least they could possibly do
They teach fishing in college now?! :eek::p
I'll tell you why.
United States Constitution
Article I, Section 8
To borrow money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions
It is a CLEARLY ENUMERATED POWER within our constitution!
I'm not sure where you read anywhere in that mess a right or power handed over to the federal government for funding and operating "universal" healthcare. Or whatever the hell it is we're arguing the government should be responsible for this time. Wiping your ass, maybe?
This is just silly folks.
:sigh:
If I opened it now would you not understand?
a thief, yes, a looter? um, I don't think so. here's the definition
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/looter
or wait! maybe I'm a socialist!
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/socialist
either way, we are soooo done.
no wonder no one at Fry's electronics knows where the fuck anything is!
we're done as well. vote for a republican and enjoy you're theocratic dictatorship.
you got me.
if only you can see how truly selfish and greedy you are. its sickening. and sad that you dont understand that.
Reading problem? Look at definition #2 of the noun. Stolen Goods.
Look at definition #2 of the verb. To take as spoils; steal.
Sounds right.
Sound about right, too. A socialist is an advocate of socialism, which is defined on the website you linked as:
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
That sounds like exactly what you're trying to crate. Glad you recognize it, too.
Trade school
for the least they could possibly do
Aw, don't be like that.
for the least they could possibly do
Well, since I dont hold much respect for the US constitution apart from as a historical document, I really dont see the relevance. Constitutions and laws can be changed when people want it. So would it be if americans want universal health care like the rest of the west.
My question was general, in why some things will only be fucked up by the state, while the exertion of force apparently they can fuck up as much as they'd like since it says so on some old parchment. And particularly directed towards those that are fine with the US military and the way it works (and costs), yet have principal problems with state-funded health care.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
I am selfish because I think all should have health care?
please explain.
I'm a capitalist with socialist tendancies. that's the most I'm willing to give you.
how can anyone at this point say Iraq was the right thing to do? ... the only purpose in Iraq was to send the country back a few decades, make it debt-ridden to the US and to award a bunch of no-bid contracts to engineering firms and defence contractors ... any other talking point is pure fabrication ...
understanding that "free" healthcare is anything but free would be a start.
oh ok.
:rolleyes:
If I opened it now would you not understand?