so....we know that the world is flat, but.....

surferdude

EvilToasterElf wrote:

So you're chastising science for changing with the times and technologies while religion has remained stagnant for thousand's of years?

I still go with science everytime

Not at all. I chastise people who think science has all the answers. Science continually throws out yesterday's truths as wrong. Facts don't change, maybe that's why the truth doesn't feel the need "for changing with the times and technologies". Facts and truths hold true regardless of technology or the times.

rightondude

surferdude wrote:

Facts and truths hold true regardless of technology or the times.

I always think about this train of thought when read about how societal facts that once made laws have changed over time.

an example of what I mean is stuff like this:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/7474/ohlaws.html

Infinity_Now

"so... we know that the world is flat, but..."

Which is it: is man one of God's blunders, or is God one of man's blunders?
-- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols (1889)

I'd like to raise a praise of, "Prost!" For Nietzsche!

Ahnimus

Infinity_Now wrote:

You guys are real funny.

But seriously - for the last time...

10,000 Gods don't mean nothin' and I don't trust 'em.

Want to know where Jesus came from?

He came from Saturn.

Saturn.

http://throwawayyourtv.com/2006/07/origins-of-religion.html

...

Atheism, it's like an infinite orgasm for the brain.

What if you can prove God doesn't exist?

If there is only 1 true God,
and there are 10,000 Gods - then doesn't that make every one false?

That's logical.

Humans have 10,000 or more versions of God. Ask any Christian - almost every persons conception/definition/obligation/humanization of God is different. And there can't be 10,000 or more different versions of the "One true object."

Why?

Because we invented every last one. EVERY LAST ONE. So they all truly exist, as objects - as concepts. And they're all so far off from the nearest human conception of "truth," because every "1 true God," as they are - they are intolerant of every other "1 true God," absolutely and unequivocally. There can't be one if there are many. There can't be 10,000 fish if there is only 1.

... nibble a little, will you:

Now it is such a bizarrely improbably coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful [the Babel fish] could have evolved by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy (book one of the Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy series), p. 50

If we say God doesn't exist - then what can he/she/it do to prove it does exist? Nothing, nothing so far. So... maybe God has yet to evolve. But I doubt his/hers/its followers would have any of that.

Saying, "Try atheism." Like saying, "Try air." It's nice, isn't it? Well.... with no God to tell you otherwise - you're left to figure that one out either on your own or with the comforts of your human colleagues, it's up to you. This question is for you - are you currently able to give atheism a try? If not, too bad, it seems you're being oppresed. How are you ever going to learn if you're not allowed to accept other beliefs than the ones some drusty ancient doctrine has leaked out to you?

Agnosticism is better IMO.

It doesn't matter if god exists. With 10,000 different gods, regardless of what you do, you will be accepted by one of them. If there is no gods, then I guess you are dead. Not much else to say about being dead. Kind of a peaceful idea really. I mean who would want to spend eternity doing anything? What kind of a heaven could keep us entertained for eternity?

rightondude

Ahnimus wrote:

Agnosticism is better IMO.

It doesn't matter if god exists. With 10,000 different gods, regardless of what you do, you will be accepted by one of them. If there is no gods, then I guess you are dead. Not much else to say about being dead. Kind of a peaceful idea really. I mean who would want to spend eternity doing anything? What kind of a heaven could keep us entertained for eternity?

Every cell in your body spends all eternity consantly changing physical realities and becoming various stages of infinite entities or energy patterns, therefore "heaven" can be seen as a never ending perpetual journey is never once seen from the same perspective, or notion of perspective thereof.

Just illuminating some conceptual ideas, and how they could play into the spirituality realm.

SundaySilence

surferdude wrote:

Not at all. I chastise people who think science has all the answers. Science continually throws out yesterday's truths as wrong. Facts don't change, maybe that's why the truth doesn't feel the need "for changing with the times and technologies". Facts and truths hold true regardless of technology or the times.

Of course science hasn't all the answers. Its calling is to constantly question everything, including the very laws and theories that allow it to question. Scientific advancements are not continually "thrown out", but the trend is for expansion of previous advances. Observations become increasingly more precise and accurate as we develop improved measuring methods. But that doesn't change what was observed previously. Science is under no obligation to provide your truths. These truths you speak of will never be known because they are beyond that capacity for human understanding. There are light spectrums we cannot see, frequencys we cannot hear. And an infinity of things we cannot think.

Ahnimus

rightondude wrote:

Every cell in your body spends all eternity consantly changing physical realities and becoming various stages of infinite entities or energy patterns, therefore "heaven" can be seen as a never ending perpetual journey is never once seen from the same perspective, or notion of perspective thereof.

Just illuminating some conceptual ideas, and how they could play into the spirituality realm.

That's cool as long as I don't have to be there consiously to experience it. Sounds pretty boring.

rightondude

Ahnimus wrote:

That's cool as long as I don't have to be there consiously to experience it. Sounds pretty boring.

Yeah imagine having to experience being a sun for some solar system like ours where you sit there watching these "flies" buzz around your head for 5 billion years until you eventually explode! haha

farfromglorified

keeponrockin wrote:

I'm saying that there is no way I can prove GOD DOES NOT EXIST.

I know. Nor can anyone prove the opposite. Which begs the question...why do people believe in either?

PaperPlates

I think alot of dissatisfied, unhappy people have confused dislike/distrust/disgust with organised religion, with belief in god. The two dont go hand in hand.

danmac

farfromglorified wrote:

I know. Nor can anyone prove the opposite. Which begs the question...why do people believe in either?

Easy. Nothingness is the natural state. If there is nothing there, nothing exists.

So. A road. A car travels along that road. The car exists.

So. The universe. Big place, i know. Somebody says, God exists. I ask, show me.

I can't, they say.

The only argument these 'believers' come up with, is "oh, you can't prove God doesn't exist."

It's banal, at best. It is also detached from reality.

In court, the onus on accusers is to prove their accusations against the accused. The natural state is innocence, is clean, is free from crime, until itr is proven otherwise.

If god exists, all i ask is, show me.

If you ask, "prove he doesn't exist," I say he doesn't, look, at point to thin air.

know1

Science knows more today than it ever has, but it still knows relatively nothing.

farfromglorified

danmac wrote:

Easy. Nothingness is the natural state. If there is nothing there, nothing exists.

"There"???

So. A road. A car travels along that road. The car exists.

Sure.

So. The universe. Big place, i know. Somebody says, God exists. I ask, show me.

I can't, they say.

The only argument these 'believers' come up with, is "oh, you can't prove God doesn't exist."

It's banal, at best. It is also detached from reality.

In court, the onus on accusers is to prove their accusations against the accused. The natural state is innocence, is clean, is free from crime, until itr is proven otherwise.

Ok.

If god exists, all i ask is, show me.

I would never say god exists.

If you ask, "prove he doesn't exist," I say he doesn't, look, at point to thin air.

Based on this logic fish don't exist either.

danmac

farfromglorified wrote:

"There"???



Sure.



Ok.



I would never say god exists.



Based on this logic fish don't exist either.

How so?

I know where fish are, I take that person to fish, I show them fish.

Next?

dunkman

danmac wrote:

Easy. Nothingness is the natural state. If there is nothing there, nothing exists.

So. A road. A car travels along that road. The car exists.

So. The universe. Big place, i know. Somebody says, God exists. I ask, show me.

I can't, they say.

The only argument these 'believers' come up with, is "oh, you can't prove God doesn't exist."

It's banal, at best. It is also detached from reality.

In court, the onus on accusers is to prove their accusations against the accused. The natural state is innocence, is clean, is free from crime, until itr is proven otherwise.

If god exists, all i ask is, show me.

If you ask, "prove he doesn't exist," I say he doesn't, look, at point to thin air.

its akin to me saying "green dwarves were making me burn down churches and forcing me to eat anvils....."

people would juts simply say that i was "imagining" these green dwarves... same thing with religion/god/etc... i've been asked numerous times on here to "prove god doesnt exist"... i ask those believers to prove that the "green dwarves" dont exist... they cant!! just as i cant prove they are real...

yet my visions and beliefs are the cause of my incarceration into a mental hospital whilst the other set of visions and beliefs are accepted

we cant prove god exists just as people cant prove my insane green dwarves exist... its all a state of mind and its all about the belief that that person has... science, history, earthquakes, etc... all point to god not existing, yet nothing even remotely concrete points to god actually existing...

farfromglorified

danmac wrote:

How so?

I know where fish are, I take that person to fish, I show them fish.

Next?

You said "If you ask, 'prove he doesn't exist,' I say he doesn't, look, at point to thin air."

If I ask "prove fish don't exist", you could do the same thing and be equally wrong. Just because there are no fish in the "thin air" does not mean there are no fish.

You cannot disprove God because you cannot "point" to everything. There is no inherent guarantee that what you perceive is the sum total of reality.

The same goes for anyone who claims there is a God.

Both athiesm and Catholicism are excercises in faith. But like all faithful believers, I'm sure you'll defend your faith as the Truth until you die.

farfromglorified

dunkman1974 wrote:

its akin to me saying "green dwarves were making me burn down churches and forcing me to eat anvils....."

people would juts simply say that i was "imagining" these green dwarves... same thing with religion/god/etc... i've been asked numerous times on here to "prove god doesnt exist"... i ask those believers to prove that the "green dwarves" dont exist... they cant!! just as i cant prove they are real...

yet my visions and beliefs are the cause of my incarceration into a mental hospital whilst the other set of visions and beliefs are accepted

we cant prove god exists just as people cant prove my insane green dwarves exist... its all a state of mind and its all about the belief that that person has...

This makes much more sense.

science, history, earthquakes, etc... all point to god not existing, yet nothing even remotely concrete points to god actually existing...

How do you think "science, history, and earthquakes" point to God not existing??????

danmac

farfromglorified wrote:

You said "If you ask, 'prove he doesn't exist,' I say he doesn't, look, at point to thin air."

If I ask "prove fish don't exist", you could do the same thing and be equally wrong. Just because there are no fish in the "thin air" does not mean there are no fish.

You cannot disprove God because you cannot "point" to everything. There is no inherent guarantee that what you perceive is the sum total of reality.

I could take you to fish. Or, the other way round, If I point to nothing, and say, look, ffg, fish do not exist, you can say hang on Dan, come with me, and show me fish.

farfromglorified wrote:

Both athiesm and Catholicism are excercises in faith. But like all faithful believers, I'm sure you'll defend your faith as the Truth until you die.

Why label me an atheist?

I am the normal one, who believes onyl the existence he is living. Why label me? Its like labelling someone who isn't disabled, able-bodied. It takes what is 'abnormal', what is the 'minority' (i.e. the disability, the blind faith in a cartoon character) and transferring that to the majority.

I am me, I am what I do, and I am human.

catefrances

miskin wrote:

to be an athiest is to have no self respect.

i have plenty of self-respect and am also an atheist. it is because of the respect that i have for myself that i choose not to believe in God. my validation comes from within, not from the heavens.

dunkman

farfromglorified wrote:

How do you think "science, history, and earthquakes" point to God not existing??????

science and its many theories point to a no god state of reasoning for me at least... i.e. evoultion, planet creation, the solar system, etc etc

for instance, if god exists and he created us and he also created the solar system, our Earth etc... then he, god, us ultimately responsible for the demise of his creations, all of us and all life on Earth...

the planet Earth is poorly designed... god is so all-powerful and all so-knowing yet his design of the planet is hugely flawed... earthquakes and tsunamis happen as a result of various plates shifting, you know the reasons why actually, so ultimately gods poor creation of this planet is causing his people to die... its his fault... ergo, god doesnt exist as why would he create a planet that killed his own image... isnt that a bit sadistic...

he also designed a sun, a sun that will eventually die out and will therefore mean that certain types of life, life that he created, will cease to exist... again thats a huge design flaw... and it makes me think that he cant exist,

why isnt he fixing the plates under the earths crust as we speak... he isnt... and this doesnt come under the guise of free will.. god is a poor craftsmen... and bad craftsmen shouldnt blame their tools,