People with NO RELIGION, educate me.

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  • Inkdaub
    Inkdaub Posts: 235
    Belief in god and belief in life after death...as you put it...is not religion.
  • sponger
    sponger Posts: 3,159
    Inkdaub wrote:
    Belief in god and belief in life after death...as you put it...is not religion.

    But nearly all religions adopt that philosophy. If you believe in god and believe in life after death, how are your beliefs different from that of, say, a christian's?
    reigning champion

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
  • sliverstain
    sliverstain Posts: 340
    sponger wrote:
    My personal belief is that it is truly impossible to be an ethical human being without achieving a certain degree of self-awareness. That's the limitation of religion: It does not account for the infinite tendencies of the human personality. Instead, it lays down specific guidelines that determine what is right and what is wrong. There is so much more to right and wrong than "god's" will.

    A person can follow the words of the bible to the letter, but that person still might not ever understand the meaning of humanity. You'll often hear, "A good christian does this...," and "That is not a very christian thing to do..." The spirit of morality is lost in the "grandjeur" of moral deeds.

    Selflessness is the highest form of consciousness. It is also known as altruism. Altruism cannot be achieved without self-actualization. Self-actualization is the highest level of motivation on the pyramid of needs.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_h ... y_of_needs

    It is a state of mind that enables people to lead a moral lifestyle without the need of a higher authority and consequences.

    What religion attempts to do is coax people into leading a self-actualized lifestyle without actually being self-actualized. That is, you are behaving altruistically, but only because you have a "higher authority" and "consequences" that motivate you.

    Additionally, for people who are convinced that their devotion to god is not based on fear of his wrath, religion satisfies the 4th need, which is status (esteem). If you really believe that you are following in the footsteps of a true god by following the bible, then you are in fact elevating your self-perceived status. You are "holy". You lead a "holy" lifestyle. You have achieved status, which is the 4th need.

    That's why christians still don't understand their own "holier-than-thou" attitude. They don't realize that their subconcious needs depend on Christianity's perceived "greatness." If you insult christianity, you are in fact robbing christians of their hold on the 4th need.

    I believe that Jesus Christ was a self-actualized person. I don't think he really believed in god. In fact, I remember seeing something on the history channel about how Jesus actually preached self-awareness, not devotion to god - and that the catholic church re-wrote the original accounts of the teachings of Jesus so that people could be more easily controlled. Makes sense to me.

    Post of the day. Good work.
    Another question to throw into the mix...have Christians, and I mean the fundamentalist ones, the ones that only seem to exist in the US, the self-awareness to realise that their religion is a minority, that they and their beliefs are in the minority on the planet now?

    Chinese? Non-religious.

    India? Hindu, Sikh, Muslim.

    The Middle East, and all of Africa that lies above the Somali-Ethiopian line - Muslim.

    Just a few examples.

    The link between this Christian fundamentalism and consumerism has to be addressed. Isn't it like 95% of ALien sightings and or abduction claims are from the US? Also a link there.

    Empty lives need meaning and purpose.
    The world's greatest empires progress through this sequence:From bondage to spiritual faith; spiritual faith to great courage; courage to liberty;liberty to abundance;abundance to selfishness; selfishness to complacency;complacency to apathy;apathy to dependence;dependency back again into bondage
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Green Di$ea$e wrote:
    perhaps there is a god i dunno, but the world would be a hell of a lot better without organized religon...

    Wrong answer. Organized religion does a lot of good in the world. You choose to focus on only the bad.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    not4u wrote:
    why can't we just live our lives the way we see, believe what we want to believe, do not push ourselves onto others, wait, die and find out for ourselves.

    If you believed you could save someone from a horrible experience or pain, would you try?

    People who are religious aren't trying to aggravate you in the same way someone who pushes you out of the way of oncoming traffic isn't doing so just to be a jerk.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • hippiemom
    hippiemom Posts: 3,326
    know1 wrote:
    If you believed you could save someone from a horrible experience or pain, would you try?

    People who are religious aren't trying to aggravate you in the same way someone who pushes you out of the way of oncoming traffic isn't doing so just to be a jerk.
    Eskimo: But if I'd died without ever hearing of Jesus, would I still go to hell?

    Missionary: No, not if you didn't know.

    Eskimo: Then why did you tell me?
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    hippiemom wrote:
    Eskimo: But if I'd died without ever hearing of Jesus, would I still go to hell?

    Missionary: No, not if you didn't know.

    Eskimo: Then why did you tell me?

    Point taken, but someone in some isolated tribe is a lot different than anyone living in the USA, Canada, Europe, etc., etc. They've heard of Jesus.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • comebackwoman
    comebackwoman Posts: 7,271
    BeBe wrote:
    You know..your post brought me to tears..You are right..Somehow I feel my husband was bought to my home and to my two sons by the devil himself. I have suffered so much the past two years that I can write a book and give it to his church and let them see that he is no great guy. The church tells him that since he is human..he can sin..and that's where the problem is.

    Last Sunday after he was teaching the youth music group, he came home, started cussing me out because I changed the thermostat from 77 up to 79..My gosh all HELL broke loose! I had cut the grass, done all the housework and all he did was watch Dr Who in between church services.

    I know it's wrong to be mad at God. But why on earth did he put this man in my life????????

    I am in the process of divorce (I only hope he never spies on me on these boards) but the process takes longer because he is no longer here legally in this country. So immigration has to take precedence over the family court. If he ever gets deported...it will save my sanity or life..

    Thanks for your post..I really mean it..

    So sorry to hear about what you've been dealing with. Just in case you don't know - if he has hurt you physically (or threatened to do so) you can most likely get a protection order against him and have him evicted from your home. I realize there may be financial implications, but you don't have to live with him while you are waiting for a divorce if he is hurting you. I wish you the best.
    There's a light when my baby's in my arms :)
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    know1 wrote:
    People who are religious aren't trying to aggravate you in the same way someone who pushes you out of the way of oncoming traffic isn't doing so just to be a jerk.

    That analogy isn't entirely correct in my eyes.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Collin wrote:
    That analogy isn't entirely correct in my eyes.

    It is in mine, although I will admit that there probably are some people who are doing it just to be jerks.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    know1 wrote:
    It is in mine, although I will admit that there probably are some people who are doing it just to be jerks.

    I'm not going to get in to what I meant, I don't have the time. Maybe later.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


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  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    know1 wrote:
    If you believed you could save someone from a horrible experience or pain, would you try?

    People who are religious aren't trying to aggravate you in the same way someone who pushes you out of the way of oncoming traffic isn't doing so just to be a jerk.

    That's a weak analogy. The fact is, we KNOW that when someone is about to be hit by a car, they will suffer. But we don't know that someone who doesn't "find Jesus" will suffer after they die. Since no one knows, no one should be trying to change anyone else's beliefs.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Saturnal wrote:
    That's a weak analogy. The fact is, we KNOW that when someone is about to be hit by a car, they will suffer. But we don't know that someone who doesn't "find Jesus" will suffer after they die. Since no one knows, no one should be trying to change anyone else's beliefs.

    But for someone who BELIEVES that they KNOW, it is the truth. Therefore, the motivation in the above analogy is correct in many cases.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • comebackwoman
    comebackwoman Posts: 7,271
    yotan18 wrote:
    if you don't believe in life after death, if you don't believe in God, then what are your beliefs?

    - what do you think is your purpose in life?
    - what are your beliefs after you die?
    - do you believe in the evolution theory?
    - do you believe that this planet will still exist, billions of billions of years from now, unless something happens to it, e.g. struck by a meteor, or something?
    - do you think down on religious people, thinking that they are merely blind followers of their religion, and that they have no concrete basis of their beliefs?
    - do you guys have fun when you mock God?
    - can i assume that you believe that you do not commit sin?
    - do you believe that the world will be a better place if there were no RELIGION?

    i just want to know what's on your minds? :)

    For me, life is all about the "process." I don't have to know all of the answers, I can figure it out along the way. To me, it's not about a means to an end. I am more concerned about the moments I have in front of me right now and doing the best with them, rather than trying to get to an "afterlife." The purpose? I'm not really sure - other than to try to live as peacefully as possible.

    I don't really believe in an afterlife. As Hippiemom said - that ought to be one great surprise! I do believe that we are energy and I'm curious about what happens to that energy after we die - but I haven't gotten any answers on that yet.

    I do believe in evolution. I think we'll learn even more about how we got here in the future.

    I'm not sure if the universe will be here billions of years from now. Again - an answer that will be discovered in due time.

    I don't look down on religious people. To each his own. Whatever brings you peace, inspiration, etc. It's just not for me - so I don't appreciate when someone tells me that it "should" be. I do mock when religion is perverted and it is used to control or have power over other people. Fortunately, not all religious people do this, so I'm cool with them. Just don't try to use it to justify abuse, war, etc.


    I also don't mock god - I just don't believe in one. I don't believe in Santa and I don't mock him either.

    I don't know if I believe in "sin" as a concept - but yes, there is wrongdoing in the world. I have done "wrong" in my life. I'm not supposed to be perfect. I do try to live with integrity as much as I can - again, it's a "process."

    As I said above, I think religion has been perverted by some to control and take power. Yes, I believe the world would be a better place if this didn't happen, but I'm sure there would be something else to take religion's place to justify abuse.

    I guess I'm just ok with ambiguity - I don't want to know all of the answers (or have them told to me). That would take all of the fun out of it!
    There's a light when my baby's in my arms :)
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    * my purpose is my own - it is determined by where i am in my life
    * i have no interest in anything after death
    * yes, i believe in evolution
    * the planet may exist - there may not be life on it but really a question i consider remotely relevant
    * there is a place for religion for some people ... i do fear some religions agenda
    * i didn't know we mocked god
    * i sin assuming i am allowed to use the word (see marriage)
    * maybe
  • lalalalaaaaaaaa
    lalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    know1 wrote:
    But for someone who BELIEVES that they KNOW, it is the truth. Therefore, the motivation in the above analogy is correct in many cases.

    Believing that you know, is not knowing.
  • meme
    meme Posts: 4,695
    My purpose in life is to make my surroundings better, to become what I can become, and to love those around me.

    I have no firm beliefs about life after death.

    I do believe in evolution theory. To me, it's not a faith but rocket science.

    I think we are ensuring this planet won't be around in hundreds of years, let alone billions.

    I don't think down on religious people. I've been one and I know there are radically different ways of relating yourself to religion.

    I don't mock god.

    I'm not worried about sin, but I do worry about hurting others.

    I don't think the world would be better off without religion, but I wish people would not justify massacres on that basis.
    yotan18 wrote:
    if you don't believe in life after death, if you don't believe in God, then what are your beliefs?

    - what do you think is your purpose in life?
    - what are your beliefs after you die?
    - do you believe in the evolution theory?
    - do you believe that this planet will still exist, billions of billions of years from now, unless something happens to it, e.g. struck by a meteor, or something?
    - do you think down on religious people, thinking that they are merely blind followers of their religion, and that they have no concrete basis of their beliefs?
    - do you guys have fun when you mock God?
    - can i assume that you believe that you do not commit sin?
    - do you believe that the world will be a better place if there were no RELIGION?

    i just want to know what's on your minds? :)
    ... and the will to show I will always be better than before.
  • harrymanback
    harrymanback Posts: 435
    - what do you think is your purpose in life? to be happy
    - what are your beliefs after you die? my ashes will rot in the ground like every other animal
    - do you believe in the evolution theory? yes
    - do you believe that this planet will still exist, billions of billions of years from now, unless something happens to it, e.g. struck by a meteor, or something? yes ... it will exist until something stops it from existing
    - do you think down on religious people, thinking that they are merely blind followers of their religion, and that they have no concrete basis of their beliefs? i respect the people, not the belief
    - do you guys have fun when you mock God? yes ... just as much as catholics have when they mock say, someone who may praise a science fiction writer.
    - can i assume that you believe that you do not commit sin? no sin, just right and wrong.
    - do you believe that the world will be a better place if there were no RELIGION? yes
    I don't want to be hostile. I don't want to be dismal. But I don't want to rot in an apathetic existance either.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    Saturnal wrote:
    Believing that you know, is not knowing.

    Huh? I disagree, but now you've degenerated into nitpicking semantics. Fine, I'll just restate that to someone who KNOWS isn't doing it to be a jerk.

    Do you think all religious people believe something that they really know to be untrue?
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    they don't call religions "faiths" for no reason ...

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