I don't believe we have a purpose. I believe we have a path based upon probablility. I believe we are here to keep the evolution of life going.
- what are your beliefs after you die?
I believe that we perish, decompose and our lifeforce is reconstituted into the universal soup of energy. If energy can be neither created nor destroyed, then technically we must live forever. As for our 'souls' that remains a mystery. As scientifically as I view things, I still have yet to be convinced that death is the termination of the soul. I believe that our field of vision is extremely narrow... sort of like viewing the night sky though a pinhole in a piece of paper.
- do you believe in the evolution theory?
No, I believe it is fact, not theory.
- do you believe that this planet will still exist, billions of billions of years from now, unless something happens to it, e.g. struck by a meteor, or something?
No. The sun will end it's life cycle by expanding out past our orbit..either destroying the earth in a nuclear furnace of radiation or by altering the gravitational pull so that the earth is sent careening out into space..thus becoming a cold unhospitiable rock.
Or, the Andromeda galaxy will eventually collide with the Milky Way and completly disrupt the gravitational effects of our solar system. Or we will eventually be consumed by the mammoth black hole residing in the center of our galaxy.
Or scientists will create strange matter with one of these supercolliders that will consume our planet atom by atom..then moving on to the rest of the universe.
- do you think down on religious people, thinking that they are merely blind followers of their religion, and that they have no concrete basis of their beliefs?
I think that they need to believe in something in order to make since out of their existance...just as I need to believe that the earth is round. I don't judge - our perceptions are simpy..different.
- do you guys have fun when you mock God?
I don't see any harm in mocking a man made idea.
- can i assume that you believe that you do not commit sin?
Again, since man created the concept of sin... who am I sinning against? Man?
- do you believe that the world will be a better place if there were no RELIGION?
I believe the world would be a better place without close minded non-inclusive religious people. But religion itself is a needed commodity to maintain man's need for an explaination of his own existance and worthwhileness.
Make your life a mission - not an intermission. - Arnold Gasglow
- do you believe that this planet will still exist, billions of billions of years from now, unless something happens to it, e.g. struck by a meteor, or something?
i think it will exist, if there will be life other than cockroaches and other things like that is a different story
- do you think down on religious people, thinking that they are merely blind followers of their religion, and that they have no concrete basis of their beliefs?
depends on the individual and how they act w/ regards to their religion but i wouldn't do it just b/c they are religious
sometimes, yeah not really mocking god as it is mocking their interpretation of god. like ppl believe the earth was god's gift to us, then why do we treat it like shit and pollute all the water, air and land?
- do you believe that the world will be a better place if there were no RELIGION?
i think it would be a better place if organized religion didn't have such a tight grip of power
[/quote]
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
i think it's been pointed out to you, but that analogy is bullshit. pure bullshit.
unless you can prove to me that there is a god and heaven and all that. i mean, PROVE it. i can prove there is a car coming, now can't i?
personally, if there's a heaven i want no part of it. sounds pretty fucking boring up there to me. it's probably too straight edge anyway....i want a heaven where i can get stoned and laid, you know?
It's not BS...you're in denial.
Can you prove there's a car coming? Can you prove the person would be injured? But yet you would try to save them.
How's this example:
If it is my belief with all my heart that I can save someone from a horrible experience much worse than death, wouldn't it be wrong of me not to try?
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Can you prove there's a car coming? Can you prove the person would be injured? But yet you would try to save them.
How's this example:
If it is my belief with all my heart that I can save someone from a horrible experience much worse than death, wouldn't it be wrong of me not to try?
Yes, you can prove there is a car coming. And if the car would hit that person, the odds are small he won't get injured.
That's why I don't like your analogy, because you can prove those things, god, heaven and hell can't be proven.
I've been thinking on an analogy myself;
We're all on a plane and no one knows its destination. You belief that if we stay on the plane we will suffer a horrible experience much worse than death. So you decide to take a parachute and jump off, because you also belief you will end up somewhere nice, but you are a good person so you want the others to know what you belief so they too can be saved from death and much worse. Fine, inform them, don't push them off the plane.
huh? i'm in denial? it's YOUR analogy, and it's bullshit. i dunno how many people have to point that out to you...
no, it would not be wrong not to try. you need to take care of yourself first. and where do you draw the line? do you quit your job, and spend every waking hour converting (saving) people? then do you stop sleeping? how can you save the absolute maximum number of people between RIGHT NOW and the moment you die?
i got a clue for you...it ain't on the pearl jam message board. so go, for the good of humanity, GO NOW!! THE WORLD NEEDS YOU, OH SAGE ONE!!!
You do bring up a great point about how much is enough and one that puts people into conflict. It's difficult to reconcile, and I do not have a good answer for you.
(but maybe it is on a PJ message board....isn't that exactly what I'm doing right now...?)
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I am not big into Organized Religion, but I do feel that I am very spirtual. I'm not sure any religion gets it completely right. And I feel that blindly following a church that my family was raised in only limits my knowledge about God and what ever afterlife there is. My Husband tells me that I will go to hell by thinking like this, but he is being ignorant and not questioning if what he is being taught is even right? Is that not what wars are about right now? How awful would it be to be seting in Hell and thinking, "Man I really should have not taken everything they were saying at only my church as factual."
If you don't believe in life after death...
I don't know. all I know is that no one knows.
If you don't believe in God...
I believe in One higher source that guides the Universe... that Man has given several names to and have killed each other because they all want to claim Him exclusively to their own.
Then what are your beliefs?
- what do you think is your purpose in life?
To live this existance and be happy.
- what are your beliefs after you die?
I don't know. I am hoping that the body remains on Earth to decay, but the spirit becomes part of the energy that drives the Universe. But, seriously, I don't know.
- do you believe in the evolution theory?
It seems the most likely explanation to me... otherwise, we are all descndents of incest.
- do you believe that this planet will still exist, billions of billions of years from now, unless something happens to it, e.g. struck by a meteor, or something?
No. Nature has already flagged us for extinction because of the poor job we have done as caretakers of this wonderful planet. Also, the whole thing is simply passing through a brief period (relative to Universal time) where all of the conditions are right for the diversity of life that we too often take for granted. Eventually, our Sun will run its course and cool, swelling as it is no longer able to hold onto its mass and consume the terrestrial planets in its solar system.
- do you think down on religious people, thinking that they are merely blind followers of their religion, and that they have no concrete basis of their beliefs?
Many of them are. The Explanation of 'Faith' to explain away any need for logical thought is used by too many.
Although... I believe Faith and Hope are good human qualities when we are tested by the consequences of life.
- do you guys have fun when you mock God?
Who mocks God? and if someone does no believe in God, how can they mock something that does not exist?
- can i assume that you believe that you do not commit sin?
Silly question... NEXT!!!
- do you believe that the world will be a better place if there were no RELIGION?
I believe the world would be a better place if people followed the teachings of their religions, rather than warping the text of their religions to justify their human wants, desires, fears and intolerance.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
- do you believe that this planet will still exist, billions of billions of years from now, unless something happens to it, e.g. struck by a meteor, or something?
I believe anything will still exist, billions of billions of years from now unless something happens to it. In other words, I believe in physics.
- do you think down on religious people, thinking that they are merely blind followers of their religion, and that they have no concrete basis of their beliefs?
Yes, but no more than anyone else who values faith in something over fact.
- do you guys have fun when you mock God?
I don't think I've ever mocked God.
- can i assume that you believe that you do not commit sin?
I believe in sin, if by sin you mean actions that run counter to purpose. And I am, at times, a sinful person.
- do you believe that the world will be a better place if there were no RELIGION?
...
See.. therein lies the problem... people trying to change someone else's mind. I prefer the route where everyone states their beliefs and opinions and everyone else listens and accepts or counters their points with points of their own.
Religious people don't need to convince me of their faith... I accept their faith as their own... their beliefs are not my truths.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
if you don't believe in life after death, if you don't believe in God, then what are your beliefs?
- what do you think is your purpose in life?
- what are your beliefs after you die?
- do you believe in the evolution theory?
- do you believe that this planet will still exist, billions of billions of years from now, unless something happens to it, e.g. struck by a meteor, or something?
- do you think down on religious people, thinking that they are merely blind followers of their religion, and that they have no concrete basis of their beliefs?
- do you guys have fun when you mock God?
- can i assume that you believe that you do not commit sin?
- do you believe that the world will be a better place if there were no RELIGION?
Yotan, I found your responses later in the thread to others to be very respectful so I will answer. I chose not to answer at first, because sometimes people just start threads like this to get people to write stuff and then mock them, but clearly this was not your intention. So:
1) Purpose? My purpose is to survive as long as possible, and make sure my children survive, perpetuating their genes. (when you get right down to the biological level) However with the superior intelligence that we are have as humans, this is tempered by altruism that enables us to work toward the survival of others as well, realizing that this is good for the entire group.
2) After death, we are dead. End of story. I wish it wasn't like that, but that's what the signs point to.
3) Yes I believe in evolution. Again, my education tells me it is so.
4) Yes I believe the planet will exist (the rock in space that is; whether its inhabitable is a completely different question).
5) Of course I don't look down on religious people. Their beliefs give them peace. It is an enviable state of mind. As long as they don't try to impose their beliefs on me (I don't try to impose mine on others).
6) What makes you think everyone who's non-religious would mock god? Some do, true, but no. I guess my basic belief is live and let live. If someone else wants to believe in god, that's not a problem for me, as long as they don't try to impose it on me. To each, his own. We can all peacefully co-exist.
7) Sin is a religion-related term, so if one is not religious, not sin, in a religious sense, but there are evil acts that go against the basic wellbeing of society as a whole, which should not be committed.
8) Would the world be a better place if there was no religion? I'm not sure, and I won't have any empirical way to determine, since this is highly unlikely. All the major religions do have some basic similarities - prohibitions against murder, adultery, taking other peoples' stuff, not reproducing with blood relatives that are too close. If there was no religion, maybe there wouldn't be as much war, but there might be more societal unrest of a different kind. Its hard to say.
R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
it was great to get the replies from you guys. can i add a small question? are you really contented with what you have and believe right now? well, i guess is that my thread asked this to people with no religion... but to those who have, what are your replies?
"The Day of Redemption is at hand! Repent, and thou shall be saved..." - A. Ventura
"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie" - T. Montana
---
"Yeah i know... sounds stupid." Aldrin said.
it was great to get the replies from you guys. can i add a small question? are you really contented with what you have and believe right now? well, i guess is that my thread asked this to people with no religion... but to those who have, what are your replies?
I don't have a religion, but I am going to answer anyway. I am content. I realized at some point that an eternity to live is too long, no matter the circumstances. Existence is just too boring to last an eternity.
Besides that, I think the religious portrayal of god is actually harming to god. When they say, you are either with us or you are going to hell. It makes god look like a bad guy. Apparently Satan doesn't care what you think, anyone is allowed in his home.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Isn't it like 95% of ALien sightings and or abduction claims are from the US? Also a link there.
Empty lives need meaning and purpose.
I have to disagree with you on that last point. First of all, the US is a country with a lot of open, rural area. If aliens want to abduct somebody on the low profile, rural america is a great place to do it. And if I'm not mistaken, a majority of these abductions occur in rural america.
Second, free speech and acceptance of diversity are beliefs that are observed in the US moreso than in some other countries in the world. That is, I think whatever abuductions or sightings that may be occuring in other countries are either not being reported or are being suppressed to a certain extent. Yes, there are reportings, but those reportings may only be breaking the tip of the surface.
Lastly, the aliens lost a craft or two here in the States. And, from my knowledge, US scientists have been reverse-engineering the technology from those spacecraft and infusing those discoveries into existing research and development programs. I think it is very possible that aliens choose to frequent the US more often than other countries because we are the ones who have been developing and using their technology.
it was great to get the replies from you guys. can i add a small question? are you really contented with what you have and believe right now? well, i guess is that my thread asked this to people with no religion... but to those who have, what are your replies?
I'm quite content with my beliefs. I find every religion I've studied to be fairly disturbing, I want no part of any of it. And I agree with Ahnimus that eternity is far too long to exist. I'm content to have the energy that currently comprises me dispersed back into the universe and for me personally to cease to exist. That's quite a nice idea, actually.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Can you prove there's a car coming? Can you prove the person would be injured? But yet you would try to save them.
How's this example:
If it is my belief with all my heart that I can save someone from a horrible experience much worse than death, wouldn't it be wrong of me not to try?
I live next door to a Mormon family. They have pushed their beliefs on me more times than I would ever think would ever be acceptable. I have told them to stop but they still keep coming. What rights do I have? When does the word NO means No? It's like verbal rape. It drives me crazy and it puts a sour taste in my mouth for people like you that want to save the 'rest of us'. Who says I need saving? I think your life is in need of some reality but I am not bothering you with how I feel! I am not trying to save you. So who saves who? I say back the fuck up!
I live next door to a Mormon family. They have pushed their beliefs on me more times than I would ever think would ever be acceptable. I have told them to stop but they still keep coming. What rights do I have? When does the word NO means No? It's like verbal rape. It drives me crazy and it puts a sour taste in my mouth for people like you that want to save the 'rest of us'. Who says I need saving? I think your life is in need of some reality but I am not bothering you with how I feel! I am not trying to save you. So who saves who? I say back the fuck up!
Hmn... you should really find a way to get on their nerves... paint your front door with lambs blood or something when you see them coming, then stand at the window and laugh!
if you don't believe in life after death, if you don't believe in God, then what are your beliefs?
"Love is all you need." Music helps... courage saves lives... Halo makes me happy... work sucks... I like coffee... I believe I'm sort of always subconsciously headbanging and rockin' in the free world because I'm free to do so innately. I believe freedom is innate - and unique to humans, this ability to always change and determine actions makes us pretty much perfect, this "Will To Power," or realize individuality runs parallel in all facets of society... I also believe that boredom will one day, possibly cause someone to get up on their feet and do something worthwhile, in that way, this world of cause and effects can cause some really neat things to occur, like boredom can cure cancer or something.
It's a unique condition - that purpose is redefined with every revolution of human intelligence/capability. So, while always changing, constantly defining what makes my life worth living and how to best interect with fellow humans, I guess I have some guiding rules:
"Do what thou wilt." - Alistair Crowley, which allows me to have personal interpretations/perspectives - this leads to,
"The Will To Power," - Fredierch Nietszche, which makes me responsible, and I am alone responsible for my actions - no supernatural affect will be tolerated - and herein I must rationalize my existance, with an rule of my own invention, something I try to live by and communicate,
"Homeostatic Law," - not anarchy, yet all things are allowed that benefit life/harmony in general/equality, all things that deny life, those things that are loveless are to be refused.
Evolution... is the force or conceptual form that drives life. Life being always CURRENT, meaning always evolving... "Evolution," needs no explanation to those sane enough to just accept life as flowing, as living... To those that think of live as the dream or creation of some male, provincial, and yet absent God - as in the popular sky-god religions - I call you theoretical lunatics, inventors of absent Gods, markovian ingrates, supernatural thinkers, anti-human fascists....
- do you believe that this planet will still exist, billions of billions of years from now, unless something happens to it, e.g. struck by a meteor, or something?
- do you think down on religious people, thinking that they are merely blind followers of their religion, and that they have no concrete basis of their beliefs?
I am highly anti-religion... I hate it. But I love the people, I've seen religion rip into my own family like a voracious carnivore many a time (in other words, very destructively.) My parents tried to raise me to be a priest, I became an atheist when I was only 10, then my mom brought blessed salts and holy waters from church and hid them in my room and around the house - she thought I was possessed to call myself, "free" from her religion, then I ran away and never considered even for a moment going back to theoretical and even inhuman indoctrination and enslavement by such a fascist system.
But I nearly cry when I see religions starting/causing wars all around the world, time and time again, ongoing, and going on since the dawn of them - those anti-human religions... so yeah, I am no fan of God.
The Crusades... the 2006 Isreali/Palestine Conflict... Once I can start respecting religions, and thier midevil ways... then maybe I'll stop mocking them.
- can i assume that you believe that you do not commit sin?
Sin is a Midevil term... which renders Midevil punishments.
I try not to harm the world and fellow humans, and I try in every way I can separate myself from various cultural crime systems (McDonalds and nationalism and warfare and partisanship and egotistical vanity and...)
Always ask yourself, "Which is the real Witch?" Is it the on on trial - often solely defending one's own right to life free of some visious cultural crime, "Witchunting," in this example - or is it the prosecutor, the attacker, the one who struck first?
...One last thing here - about religious thinking and the relationship of "sin" to the teachings of the Bible:
Jesus said, "Let he who has committed no sin, cast the first stone."
I say, fucking bullshit. The sinner will lie, and say he has not sinned, then all hell will break loose and all ready with weapons will cast their stones.
Also - basically - Jesus was giving those with stones fair way to use thier weapons, by justifying one act of violence by condemning another. These are thing's religious peopl - belivers who just absently believe what "Jesus says," are not allowed to question - they will just go ahead, and ignorantly continue to throw their stones.
Often religious practice backfires. Indoctrinated thinking doesn't quite "cut-it" in this modern Midevil world, where many bad people have abusively taken hold of power and religions.
- do you believe that the world will be a better place if there were no RELIGION?
Yes, oh God yes. Well - the world will turn, is will revolve and revolutions will follow. Once the patriarchal sky-god religions collapse - oh please, oh please, oh please! - then new, more homeostatic, harmonic religions based upon nature and innately human/perfectly human understanding are estavblished - then, religions will seem, at that time - quite good, good for them, I hope they're happy, then.
I believe humans of nature are perfect or at least, able to define and act our the concepts of our own perfection - being "goodwill," "acting "good," and knowledge of "good," - are all much much better than inchoate fear and hate caused by supernatural Gods.
I imagine that's a typo... and all is forgiven (::) <-that's psychedelic! Are all faces always smiling? Is it possible? Something in this computer seems to suggest that a smiley face can't be made if the characters are reversed - but I know it can still be a smiley either way... Is it possible for a religious person to see the world through an athiest's eyes? YES - but only when one will cease to be a religious person. Of course, one can then go back and forth for all eternity, "Whatever gets you through the night... it's alright... it's alright."
I imagine the purpose of this thread is to catch a better understanding of atheism and its contents... so that's why I have such a long winded response.
And I've one final addition - Since atheists in general are by far the minority. I've noticed you have to have a pretty phenomenal sense of humor to put up with atheism and maybe even encourage it.
Second, free speech and acceptance of diversity are beliefs that are observed in the US moreso than in some other countries in the world. That is, I think whatever abuductions or sightings that may be occuring in other countries are either not being reported or are being suppressed to a certain extent. Yes, there are reportings, but those reportings may only be breaking the tip of the surface.
I think it has little to do with free speech, more like sensationalism.
it was great to get the replies from you guys. can i add a small question? are you really contented with what you have and believe right now? well, i guess is that my thread asked this to people with no religion... but to those who have, what are your replies?
Yes, I am really contented with what I have and my beliefs.
I don't have a religion, but I am going to answer anyway. I am content. I realized at some point that an eternity to live is too long, no matter the circumstances. Existence is just too boring to last an eternity.
Besides that, I think the religious portrayal of god is actually harming to god. When they say, you are either with us or you are going to hell. It makes god look like a bad guy. Apparently Satan doesn't care what you think, anyone is allowed in his home.
based on our beliefs, satan is not a ruler in hell. the truth is, satan is not yet in hell. he is still on earth, finding lots of people to be his victim, because if judgment day comes, he will now be thrown to hell, with all his victims. there, he may rule in a sense, but he will also suffer as all damned people, thus, he is the ruler of nothing.
*but, that is if you believe in those things, which i respectfully get... you don't.
"The Day of Redemption is at hand! Repent, and thou shall be saved..." - A. Ventura
"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie" - T. Montana
---
"Yeah i know... sounds stupid." Aldrin said.
Yes - I love posting these things. And I think the more we laugh, the longer we can stay focused on the topic at hand without getting too "fuzzed out" or too deep into ones own dementia (beliefs).
i asked this thread, because i want to know why one opt to be an atheist.
if you chose to, because you just don't believe in God, religion, or life after death, then i respect your decision.
but, for those people who once believed, but later found out that their religion is flawed, or that religion is just being used for control and power and things like that, there is one question i have to ask...
did it ever occured to you that maybe, maybe that religion is NOT the true one?
see my other thread, to Bible - based religion members. Maybe world leaders who use religion to fuck up, is because their religion IS fucked up. (sorry for the words).
"The Day of Redemption is at hand! Repent, and thou shall be saved..." - A. Ventura
"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie" - T. Montana
---
"Yeah i know... sounds stupid." Aldrin said.
Not adhering to a religion is not the same as being an atheist. It may be mere opposition to being told what to believe, and feeling that they aren't allowed to think for themselves. Religions are all about streamlining and standardizing thought about important moral and existencial questions. Some, like myself, wants to figure them out for ourselves.
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
i asked this thread, because i want to know why one opt to be an atheist.
if you chose to, because you just don't believe in God, religion, or life after death, then i respect your decision.
but, for those people who once believed, but later found out that their religion is flawed, or that religion is just being used for control and power and things like that, there is one question i have to ask...
did it ever occured to you that maybe, maybe that religion is NOT the true one?
see my other thread, to Bible - based religion members. Maybe world leaders who use religion to fuck up, is because their religion IS fucked up. (sorry for the words).
Yeah - and then I considered ALL THOSE OTHER RELIGIONS. They're all fucked... more or less - it's the supernatural thing that bugs me. It's not that I can't concieve of a supernature - a being within nature but beyond our own - I think it's easy to imagine that... but logically then, there is no proof in this/our nature that any being other than those in nature exist in any sort of supernature.
Really, atheism is a logical conclusion - an answer to the question, "What is real?" Nature or Supernature? If real means true, then I'd say, logically, it can be proven that only nature exists and supernature is just something we imagine, it exists, yes, but only as a concept, not as a true form of nature.
YOU CAN'T FLIP THIS PROPOSITION AROUND, and say, "Well if nature exists, then it can be proven that supernature exists as well, because supernature is simply anything outside of nature that we as humans are unable to percieve." Nope, you can't prove supernature exists. EVen that example I just used doesn't make any sort of sense, there is no proof of the supernatural, anywhere - thus religion, all religions are very suspect in my very human belief system.
WHat is the athiests belief system?
Well... it can be nearly anything - but my belief system is that truth is found only in nature, and it can be found in any natural occurence. So any supernatural thing is automatically suspect as being false, and it must be pursued/examined as a false construct, as it is - supernatural, without proof... without merit.
If God were a human, living, breathing - then I'd give the chap a podium to stand on and I'd listen for a word or two until I become disinterested. SO far this supernatural entity has done ZERO good for humanity. *sigh* BEcause all religions are inherent contradictions of all religions. None of them are right, because they can't all be right - because none of them know if tthey are right, as none of them can prove to the others that their is the one way, the truth, the light. These sky-god religions are all divided, they divide mankind, and divide families, and they divide our shared human composition of compassion and unity, they make humanity much more weak thansay, athiesm - which only seeks to find out what is natural, and thus what is more healthy, so that we can more clearly see what is real... so that we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we can change weak human behaviors such as "sin," and change for the better, to better fit into nature, to better know ourselves, so one day we will become the very first truly harmonic/homeostatic animal species on planet Earth.
All in all, I think if we pursue atheism, all in all then all will be forgiven and we will make sure of it, we won't have to wait for judgment, we will overcome the superstitions and tribulations of religious animosity, that division, that Armageddon anxiety will be gone.
Comments
No, I'm saying religious people believe something that they really don't know is true or untrue for sure...that's why they have to believe.
And I know many of them aren't doing it to be a jerk, but that doesn't make it ok for them to do it.
Or, the Andromeda galaxy will eventually collide with the Milky Way and completly disrupt the gravitational effects of our solar system. Or we will eventually be consumed by the mammoth black hole residing in the center of our galaxy.
Or scientists will create strange matter with one of these supercolliders that will consume our planet atom by atom..then moving on to the rest of the universe. I think that they need to believe in something in order to make since out of their existance...just as I need to believe that the earth is round. I don't judge - our perceptions are simpy..different. I don't see any harm in mocking a man made idea. Again, since man created the concept of sin... who am I sinning against? Man? I believe the world would be a better place without close minded non-inclusive religious people. But religion itself is a needed commodity to maintain man's need for an explaination of his own existance and worthwhileness.
Make your life a mission - not an intermission. - Arnold Gasglow
well, i believe there is something greater out there, just not the way organized religion explains it.
to be a good person and help others
no clue
yes, i believe we adapt, proof is all over the animal kingdom.
i think it will exist, if there will be life other than cockroaches and other things like that is a different story
depends on the individual and how they act w/ regards to their religion but i wouldn't do it just b/c they are religious
sometimes, yeah
no, everyone does from time to time.
i think it would be a better place if organized religion didn't have such a tight grip of power
[/quote]
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Is that what you would think if you could push someone out of the way of oncoming traffic?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
It's not BS...you're in denial.
Can you prove there's a car coming? Can you prove the person would be injured? But yet you would try to save them.
How's this example:
If it is my belief with all my heart that I can save someone from a horrible experience much worse than death, wouldn't it be wrong of me not to try?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Yes, you can prove there is a car coming. And if the car would hit that person, the odds are small he won't get injured.
That's why I don't like your analogy, because you can prove those things, god, heaven and hell can't be proven.
I've been thinking on an analogy myself;
We're all on a plane and no one knows its destination. You belief that if we stay on the plane we will suffer a horrible experience much worse than death. So you decide to take a parachute and jump off, because you also belief you will end up somewhere nice, but you are a good person so you want the others to know what you belief so they too can be saved from death and much worse. Fine, inform them, don't push them off the plane.
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You do bring up a great point about how much is enough and one that puts people into conflict. It's difficult to reconcile, and I do not have a good answer for you.
(but maybe it is on a PJ message board....isn't that exactly what I'm doing right now...?)
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I don't know. all I know is that no one knows.
If you don't believe in God...
I believe in One higher source that guides the Universe... that Man has given several names to and have killed each other because they all want to claim Him exclusively to their own.
Then what are your beliefs?
- what do you think is your purpose in life?
To live this existance and be happy.
- what are your beliefs after you die?
I don't know. I am hoping that the body remains on Earth to decay, but the spirit becomes part of the energy that drives the Universe. But, seriously, I don't know.
- do you believe in the evolution theory?
It seems the most likely explanation to me... otherwise, we are all descndents of incest.
- do you believe that this planet will still exist, billions of billions of years from now, unless something happens to it, e.g. struck by a meteor, or something?
No. Nature has already flagged us for extinction because of the poor job we have done as caretakers of this wonderful planet. Also, the whole thing is simply passing through a brief period (relative to Universal time) where all of the conditions are right for the diversity of life that we too often take for granted. Eventually, our Sun will run its course and cool, swelling as it is no longer able to hold onto its mass and consume the terrestrial planets in its solar system.
- do you think down on religious people, thinking that they are merely blind followers of their religion, and that they have no concrete basis of their beliefs?
Many of them are. The Explanation of 'Faith' to explain away any need for logical thought is used by too many.
Although... I believe Faith and Hope are good human qualities when we are tested by the consequences of life.
- do you guys have fun when you mock God?
Who mocks God? and if someone does no believe in God, how can they mock something that does not exist?
- can i assume that you believe that you do not commit sin?
Silly question... NEXT!!!
- do you believe that the world will be a better place if there were no RELIGION?
I believe the world would be a better place if people followed the teachings of their religions, rather than warping the text of their religions to justify their human wants, desires, fears and intolerance.
Hail, Hail!!!
Hmm, news to me.
PEACE
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^RED MOSQUITO #2^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Dublin 08/06
Katowice 06/07 London 06/07 Dusseldorf 06/07 Nijgemen 06/07
To be happy
I don't believe dead things have beliefs.
Sure, I believe there is an evolution theory.
I believe anything will still exist, billions of billions of years from now unless something happens to it. In other words, I believe in physics.
Yes, but no more than anyone else who values faith in something over fact.
I don't think I've ever mocked God.
I believe in sin, if by sin you mean actions that run counter to purpose. And I am, at times, a sinful person.
Not really, no.
See.. therein lies the problem... people trying to change someone else's mind. I prefer the route where everyone states their beliefs and opinions and everyone else listens and accepts or counters their points with points of their own.
Religious people don't need to convince me of their faith... I accept their faith as their own... their beliefs are not my truths.
Hail, Hail!!!
Yotan, I found your responses later in the thread to others to be very respectful so I will answer. I chose not to answer at first, because sometimes people just start threads like this to get people to write stuff and then mock them, but clearly this was not your intention. So:
1) Purpose? My purpose is to survive as long as possible, and make sure my children survive, perpetuating their genes. (when you get right down to the biological level) However with the superior intelligence that we are have as humans, this is tempered by altruism that enables us to work toward the survival of others as well, realizing that this is good for the entire group.
2) After death, we are dead. End of story. I wish it wasn't like that, but that's what the signs point to.
3) Yes I believe in evolution. Again, my education tells me it is so.
4) Yes I believe the planet will exist (the rock in space that is; whether its inhabitable is a completely different question).
5) Of course I don't look down on religious people. Their beliefs give them peace. It is an enviable state of mind. As long as they don't try to impose their beliefs on me (I don't try to impose mine on others).
6) What makes you think everyone who's non-religious would mock god? Some do, true, but no. I guess my basic belief is live and let live. If someone else wants to believe in god, that's not a problem for me, as long as they don't try to impose it on me. To each, his own. We can all peacefully co-exist.
7) Sin is a religion-related term, so if one is not religious, not sin, in a religious sense, but there are evil acts that go against the basic wellbeing of society as a whole, which should not be committed.
8) Would the world be a better place if there was no religion? I'm not sure, and I won't have any empirical way to determine, since this is highly unlikely. All the major religions do have some basic similarities - prohibitions against murder, adultery, taking other peoples' stuff, not reproducing with blood relatives that are too close. If there was no religion, maybe there wouldn't be as much war, but there might be more societal unrest of a different kind. Its hard to say.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie" - T. Montana
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"Yeah i know... sounds stupid." Aldrin said.
#18 INC forever
I don't have a religion, but I am going to answer anyway. I am content. I realized at some point that an eternity to live is too long, no matter the circumstances. Existence is just too boring to last an eternity.
Besides that, I think the religious portrayal of god is actually harming to god. When they say, you are either with us or you are going to hell. It makes god look like a bad guy. Apparently Satan doesn't care what you think, anyone is allowed in his home.
I have to disagree with you on that last point. First of all, the US is a country with a lot of open, rural area. If aliens want to abduct somebody on the low profile, rural america is a great place to do it. And if I'm not mistaken, a majority of these abductions occur in rural america.
Second, free speech and acceptance of diversity are beliefs that are observed in the US moreso than in some other countries in the world. That is, I think whatever abuductions or sightings that may be occuring in other countries are either not being reported or are being suppressed to a certain extent. Yes, there are reportings, but those reportings may only be breaking the tip of the surface.
Lastly, the aliens lost a craft or two here in the States. And, from my knowledge, US scientists have been reverse-engineering the technology from those spacecraft and infusing those discoveries into existing research and development programs. I think it is very possible that aliens choose to frequent the US more often than other countries because we are the ones who have been developing and using their technology.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
I live next door to a Mormon family. They have pushed their beliefs on me more times than I would ever think would ever be acceptable. I have told them to stop but they still keep coming. What rights do I have? When does the word NO means No? It's like verbal rape. It drives me crazy and it puts a sour taste in my mouth for people like you that want to save the 'rest of us'. Who says I need saving? I think your life is in need of some reality but I am not bothering you with how I feel! I am not trying to save you. So who saves who? I say back the fuck up!
Hmn... you should really find a way to get on their nerves... paint your front door with lambs blood or something when you see them coming, then stand at the window and laugh!
JK...
more funny - http://throwawayyourtv.com/2006/08/mormons-are-correct-answer.html
"Love is all you need." Music helps... courage saves lives... Halo makes me happy... work sucks... I like coffee... I believe I'm sort of always subconsciously headbanging and rockin' in the free world because I'm free to do so innately. I believe freedom is innate - and unique to humans, this ability to always change and determine actions makes us pretty much perfect, this "Will To Power," or realize individuality runs parallel in all facets of society... I also believe that boredom will one day, possibly cause someone to get up on their feet and do something worthwhile, in that way, this world of cause and effects can cause some really neat things to occur, like boredom can cure cancer or something.
It's a unique condition - that purpose is redefined with every revolution of human intelligence/capability. So, while always changing, constantly defining what makes my life worth living and how to best interect with fellow humans, I guess I have some guiding rules:
"Do what thou wilt." - Alistair Crowley, which allows me to have personal interpretations/perspectives - this leads to,
"The Will To Power," - Fredierch Nietszche, which makes me responsible, and I am alone responsible for my actions - no supernatural affect will be tolerated - and herein I must rationalize my existance, with an rule of my own invention, something I try to live by and communicate,
"Homeostatic Law," - not anarchy, yet all things are allowed that benefit life/harmony in general/equality, all things that deny life, those things that are loveless are to be refused.
After-life is invalid. In a way, I hate it. I've mentioned why sometime before.
Evolution... is the force or conceptual form that drives life. Life being always CURRENT, meaning always evolving... "Evolution," needs no explanation to those sane enough to just accept life as flowing, as living... To those that think of live as the dream or creation of some male, provincial, and yet absent God - as in the popular sky-god religions - I call you theoretical lunatics, inventors of absent Gods, markovian ingrates, supernatural thinkers, anti-human fascists....
lol - I hope. That was a nice ice-breaker.
I am highly anti-religion... I hate it. But I love the people, I've seen religion rip into my own family like a voracious carnivore many a time (in other words, very destructively.) My parents tried to raise me to be a priest, I became an atheist when I was only 10, then my mom brought blessed salts and holy waters from church and hid them in my room and around the house - she thought I was possessed to call myself, "free" from her religion, then I ran away and never considered even for a moment going back to theoretical and even inhuman indoctrination and enslavement by such a fascist system.
Yes.
But I nearly cry when I see religions starting/causing wars all around the world, time and time again, ongoing, and going on since the dawn of them - those anti-human religions... so yeah, I am no fan of God.
The Crusades... the 2006 Isreali/Palestine Conflict... Once I can start respecting religions, and thier midevil ways... then maybe I'll stop mocking them.
Sin is a Midevil term... which renders Midevil punishments.
I try not to harm the world and fellow humans, and I try in every way I can separate myself from various cultural crime systems (McDonalds and nationalism and warfare and partisanship and egotistical vanity and...)
Always ask yourself, "Which is the real Witch?" Is it the on on trial - often solely defending one's own right to life free of some visious cultural crime, "Witchunting," in this example - or is it the prosecutor, the attacker, the one who struck first?
...One last thing here - about religious thinking and the relationship of "sin" to the teachings of the Bible:
Jesus said, "Let he who has committed no sin, cast the first stone."
I say, fucking bullshit. The sinner will lie, and say he has not sinned, then all hell will break loose and all ready with weapons will cast their stones.
Also - basically - Jesus was giving those with stones fair way to use thier weapons, by justifying one act of violence by condemning another. These are thing's religious peopl - belivers who just absently believe what "Jesus says," are not allowed to question - they will just go ahead, and ignorantly continue to throw their stones.
Often religious practice backfires. Indoctrinated thinking doesn't quite "cut-it" in this modern Midevil world, where many bad people have abusively taken hold of power and religions.
Yes, oh God yes. Well - the world will turn, is will revolve and revolutions will follow. Once the patriarchal sky-god religions collapse - oh please, oh please, oh please! - then new, more homeostatic, harmonic religions based upon nature and innately human/perfectly human understanding are estavblished - then, religions will seem, at that time - quite good, good for them, I hope they're happy, then.
I believe humans of nature are perfect or at least, able to define and act our the concepts of our own perfection - being "goodwill," "acting "good," and knowledge of "good," - are all much much better than inchoate fear and hate caused by supernatural Gods.
I imagine that's a typo... and all is forgiven (::) <-that's psychedelic! Are all faces always smiling? Is it possible? Something in this computer seems to suggest that a smiley face can't be made if the characters are reversed - but I know it can still be a smiley either way... Is it possible for a religious person to see the world through an athiest's eyes? YES - but only when one will cease to be a religious person. Of course, one can then go back and forth for all eternity, "Whatever gets you through the night... it's alright... it's alright."
And I've one final addition - Since atheists in general are by far the minority. I've noticed you have to have a pretty phenomenal sense of humor to put up with atheism and maybe even encourage it.
I think it has little to do with free speech, more like sensationalism.
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Yes, I am really contented with what I have and my beliefs.
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http://www.myspace.com/brain_of_c
based on our beliefs, satan is not a ruler in hell. the truth is, satan is not yet in hell. he is still on earth, finding lots of people to be his victim, because if judgment day comes, he will now be thrown to hell, with all his victims. there, he may rule in a sense, but he will also suffer as all damned people, thus, he is the ruler of nothing.
*but, that is if you believe in those things, which i respectfully get... you don't.
"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie" - T. Montana
---
"Yeah i know... sounds stupid." Aldrin said.
#18 INC forever
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1715454455512357760&q=bill+hicks
Yes - I love posting these things. And I think the more we laugh, the longer we can stay focused on the topic at hand without getting too "fuzzed out" or too deep into ones own dementia (beliefs).
if you chose to, because you just don't believe in God, religion, or life after death, then i respect your decision.
but, for those people who once believed, but later found out that their religion is flawed, or that religion is just being used for control and power and things like that, there is one question i have to ask...
did it ever occured to you that maybe, maybe that religion is NOT the true one?
see my other thread, to Bible - based religion members. Maybe world leaders who use religion to fuck up, is because their religion IS fucked up. (sorry for the words).
"I always tell the truth. Even when I lie" - T. Montana
---
"Yeah i know... sounds stupid." Aldrin said.
#18 INC forever
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Yeah - and then I considered ALL THOSE OTHER RELIGIONS. They're all fucked... more or less - it's the supernatural thing that bugs me. It's not that I can't concieve of a supernature - a being within nature but beyond our own - I think it's easy to imagine that... but logically then, there is no proof in this/our nature that any being other than those in nature exist in any sort of supernature.
Really, atheism is a logical conclusion - an answer to the question, "What is real?" Nature or Supernature? If real means true, then I'd say, logically, it can be proven that only nature exists and supernature is just something we imagine, it exists, yes, but only as a concept, not as a true form of nature.
YOU CAN'T FLIP THIS PROPOSITION AROUND, and say, "Well if nature exists, then it can be proven that supernature exists as well, because supernature is simply anything outside of nature that we as humans are unable to percieve." Nope, you can't prove supernature exists. EVen that example I just used doesn't make any sort of sense, there is no proof of the supernatural, anywhere - thus religion, all religions are very suspect in my very human belief system.
WHat is the athiests belief system?
Well... it can be nearly anything - but my belief system is that truth is found only in nature, and it can be found in any natural occurence. So any supernatural thing is automatically suspect as being false, and it must be pursued/examined as a false construct, as it is - supernatural, without proof... without merit.
If God were a human, living, breathing - then I'd give the chap a podium to stand on and I'd listen for a word or two until I become disinterested. SO far this supernatural entity has done ZERO good for humanity. *sigh* BEcause all religions are inherent contradictions of all religions. None of them are right, because they can't all be right - because none of them know if tthey are right, as none of them can prove to the others that their is the one way, the truth, the light. These sky-god religions are all divided, they divide mankind, and divide families, and they divide our shared human composition of compassion and unity, they make humanity much more weak thansay, athiesm - which only seeks to find out what is natural, and thus what is more healthy, so that we can more clearly see what is real... so that we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we can change weak human behaviors such as "sin," and change for the better, to better fit into nature, to better know ourselves, so one day we will become the very first truly harmonic/homeostatic animal species on planet Earth.
All in all, I think if we pursue atheism, all in all then all will be forgiven and we will make sure of it, we won't have to wait for judgment, we will overcome the superstitions and tribulations of religious animosity, that division, that Armageddon anxiety will be gone.
Thank you, come again!
Might answer some of your questions.
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