Once you've personally delt with the type of parent who beats their kid for looking at her the wrong way you tend to disagree with the parental consent for this matter..
I honestly know someone who if she got pregnant her mother would kill her. I'm not exageratting either. She's constantly drunk and has been admitted to an asylum twice.
I don't think it's congress's place to pass that bill.
I'm way late into this thread and havn't the time to read 7 pages. Forgive me if it has been said already, but, isn't taking a minor across statelines without the parent's permission, for any reason, kidnapping? Maybe I'm out of the loop, but wasn't kidnapping already against the law?
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Once you've personally delt with the type of parent who beats their kid for looking at her the wrong way you tend to disagree with the parental consent for this matter..
I honestly know someone who if she got pregnant her mother would kill her. I'm not exageratting either. She's constantly drunk and has been admitted to an asylum twice.
I don't think it's congress's place to pass that bill.
This kid needs new legal guardian(s), not someone just to take across state lines to get an abortion. We'd all be better, especially this girl, if we attacked the actual problem.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
This kid needs new legal guardian(s), not someone just to take across state lines to get an abortion. We'd all be better, especially this girl, if we attacked the actual problem.
i know, i've told her that hundreds of times, but there's no one else there.
There are a lot of problems (her druggy dad died years ago, for example) and if her mom is gone she ends up with a foster family.
Doesn't she have any friends with good family's that will take her in? I know I lived with three families growing up and had offers from two others.
As hard as it is to leave your parents you have to do what's best for yourself.
I agree. If i were in her shoes i'd find a way, but you have to understand the psychology of it too. Her mother is the fucking anti-christ. That kid is scarred for life in so many ways... I don't want to get into all of it right now, but let's just say she feels leaving is impossible.
I don't want to get into all of it right now, but let's just say she feels leaving is impossible.
All the more reason why she has to. I feel for every kid in a situation like this. I'm so lucky that I had some great people step up to the plate, take the chance and really help me. Every kid deserves that much, and I'm sure there are people willing to help this girl.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
All the more reason why she has to. I feel for every kid in a situation like this. I'm so lucky that I had some great people step up to the plate, take the chance and really help me. Every kid deserves that much, and I'm sure there are people willing to help this girl.
I know, i'm on your side here, but she's just got it in her head to put up with it until she can leave..
she has a WONDERFUL family up in Virginia (we're both in N.C.), but i think she wants to stay here for school and other things for now.
What, in your opinion, qualifies as a "good reason" for a minor not inform their parents of their abortion?
well the two victory gin mentioned would definitely be biggies. also too, i would think if one has extremely religious parents, thus 100% against abortion and would forbid such, pretty fine reasoning too. all well and good to be religious, but i don't think a pregnant teen should be 'forced' to follow said religious beliefs, and thus denied the right to access of abortion simply b/c their parents disagree. obviously, if they were that religious, they wouldn't be having premarital sex in the first place.
ideally, i would hope if a teen were sadly to get pregnant that they would have a good enough relationship to go and tell their parenst, and get the support they need to make the best decision for themselves, whatever that decision that ultimately would be.
however we do not live in an ideal world, with ideal relationships...etc. obviously, or the very idea of an unwanted pregnancy wouldn't exist period. it's obviously one of those 'grey areas'...and in this specific instance, i believe the pregnant minor's wishes should be followed. yes, obviously they need assistance/guidance, but i do not believe the government should be getting involved, regulating the right or not for one to choose to get assistance, or not, on their own...with or without parental consent.
i look at my own life/history/parents...and i had this very convo with my mother once. thankfully, never in my life have i ever been faced with such a decision, never even had to once consider what i would do if i were ever single and pregnant, but i do believe most girls/women who are sexually active at least think about it. i know i did. that said, as an adult, and long-married...my mother and i had this very convo...if i were young/single/pregnant...would i go to her? i said no.
my mother was, and still is, a VERY religious woman, we never discussed sex, etc....all i ever heard from her at ALL, was abstinence only, i cannot even imagine her be understanding, etc. she has mellowed a LOT as she's aged...but back then? yikes. i most definitely would've enlisted the assistance of my much older sister. my mom was disappointed to hear this of course, but even she admitted she probably would not have been very supportive of such a decision, etc.
there is nothing wrong of course with a parent trying to influence a child, to try and instill their personal values/beliefs on their offspring. but in this instance, something that is going to effect you for the rest of your life, i do believe it should be the pregnant minor's CHOICE if they want such or not, and a parent shouldn't be able to block one's right/access to an aborttion. just my own personal opinion on it. and bottomline, i don't believe the government has any business in getting involved in that.
well the two victory gin mentioned would definitely be biggies.
And on those I would agree.
also too, i would think if one has extremely religious parents, thus 100% against abortion and would forbid such, pretty fine reasoning too. all well and good to be religious, but i don't think a pregnant teen should be 'forced' to follow said religious beliefs, and thus denied the right to access of abortion simply b/c their parents disagree. obviously, if they were that religious, they wouldn't be having premarital sex in the first place.
I agree. No teen should be forced to follow said religious beliefs. But this is not a good reason not to inform your parents that you're having a medical procedure.
ideally, i would hope if a teen were sadly to get pregnant that they would have a good enough relationship to go and tell their parenst, and get the support they need to make the best decision for themselves, whatever that decision that ultimately would be.
Agreed! But not "having a good enough relationship" again is not a good excuse to not inform them of the choice. It is a good excuse for not leaning on those parents for the emotional issues or reprecussions of the choice, but it is not a good reason to avoid informing them altogether.
however we do not live in an ideal world, with ideal relationships...etc. obviously, or the very idea of an unwanted pregnancy wouldn't exist period. it's obviously one of those 'grey areas'...and in this specific instance, i believe the pregnant minor's wishes should be followed. yes, obviously they need assistance/guidance, but i do not believe the government should be getting involved, regulating the right or not for one to choose to get assistance, or not, on their own...with or without parental consent.
Agreed!
i look at my own life/history/parents...and i had this very convo with my mother once. thankfully, never in my life have i ever been faced with such a decision, never even had to once consider what i would do if i were ever single and pregnant, but i do believe most girls/women who are sexually active at least think about it. i know i did. that said, as an adult, and long-married...my mother and i had this very convo...if i were young/single/pregnant...would i go to her? i said no.
my mother was, and still is, a VERY religious woman, we never discussed sex, etc....all i ever heard from her at ALL, was abstinence only, i cannot even imagine her be understanding, etc. she has mellowed a LOT as she's aged...but back then? yikes. i most definitely would've enlisted the assistance of my much older sister. my mom was disappointed to hear this of course, but even she admitted she probably would not have been very supportive of such a decision, etc.
there is nothing wrong of course with a parent trying to influence a child, to try and instill their personal values/beliefs on their offspring. but in this instance, something that is going to effect you for the rest of your life, i do believe it should be the pregnant minor's CHOICE if they want such or not, and a parent shouldn't be able to block one's right/access to an aborttion. just my own personal opinion on it. and bottomline, i don't believe the government has any business in getting involved in that.
See, that's the problem. Parental notification isn't just about "influencing the child". I have no problem with a child who goes to their parent, informs them of the decision to abort, and then stands completely resolute in the face of any parental dissent. But this is not just about influence. This is a medical procedure and a massive life choice. Parents should know about these things in order to be good and understanding parents.
Certainly it is not easy to tell a parent, regardless of persuasion, of this choice and the choices that led to it. But to suggest that every minor that comes into an abortion clinic unaccompanied by a parent has a "good reason" to keep it from their parents is to suggest that the basic avoidance of facing reasonable parents is a "good reason". That, to me, is not right.
All children have an inherent right to privacy within their own control. Meaning that no one, regardless of age, should be forced via the actions of the state to divulge private information. And that's why I don't support this law. But, ethically speaking, I would never consider it wise to sacrifice a parent's appropriate desire to know what is happening in their child's life in order to protect that privacy. Meaning that if given the choice between enabling a child to have a secret abortion or informing the parents that their child intends to abort a life, I will always choose the latter, unless in the rare situation where I feel that the child's physical safety is in doubt.
EDIT: By the way, thank you very much for the detailed and thoughtful response.
I agree. No teen should be forced to follow said religious beliefs. But this is not a good reason not to inform your parents that you're having a medical procedure.
Agreed! But not "having a good enough relationship" again is not a good excuse to not inform them of the choice. It is a good excuse for not leaning on those parents for the emotional issues or reprecussions of the choice, but it is not a good reason to avoid informing them altogether.
Agreed!
See, that's the problem. Parental notification isn't just about "influencing the child". I have no problem with a child who goes to their parent, informs them of the decision to abort, and then stands completely resolute in the face of any parental dissent. But this is not just about influence. This is a medical procedure and a massive life choice. Parents should know about these things in order to be good and understanding parents.
Certainly it is not easy to tell a parent, regardless of persuasion, of this choice and the choices that led to it. But to suggest that every minor that comes into an abortion clinic unaccompanied by a parent has a "good reason" to keep it from their parents is to suggest that the basic avoidance of facing reasonable parents is a "good reason". That, to me, is not right.
All children have a inherent right to privacy within their own control. Meaning that no one, regardless of age, should be forced via the actions of the state to divulge private information. And that's why I don't support this law. But, ethically speaking, I would never consider it wise to sacrifice a parent's appropriate desire to know what is happening in their child's life in order to protect that privacy. Meaning that if given the choice between enabling a child to have a secret abortion or informing the parents that their child intends to abort a life, I will always choose the latter, unless in the rare situation where I feel that the child's physical safety is in doubt.
sure, i hear ya, understand....but for me, my own personal opinion - especially as a female...i just think differently on it. ideally, what you say should be it...but yes, i think ultimately in this instance, a minor should have that option, medical procedure or not. i don't expect all to agree with me, it's my own personal beliefs on it. glad i don't have that concern for myself, i have no children to worry about their choices in the future...so i am looking at it as an outsider, and as a woman it is important to me to preserve the rights/choices for all girls/women.
it would be the ideal for a teen to inform their parents no matter what, AND still be able to choose abortion if ultimately that is what they desire. problem is, with this law of consent...well then, a parent can block said minor's choice. this isn't denying a child the 'right' for a nosejob...it's forcing them to have a child or not. that alone, for me, is good enough 'reason' for inform/consent NOT to be required. again, just my personal take on it. of course, i fully agree if one is a parent one would absolutely WANT to know what is going on with their children....but i think far too many parents force their beliefs/choices on their children...and if it comes down to it, i rather the pregnant minor mother's wishes be followed.
sure, i hear ya, understand....but for me, my own personal opinion - especially as a female...i just think differently on it. ideally, what you say should be it...but yes, i think ultimately in this instance, a minor should have that option, medical procedure or not. i don't expect all to agree with me, it's my own personal beliefs on it. glad i don't have that concern for msyelf, i have no children to worry about their choices in the future...so i am looking at it as an outsider, and as a woman it is imporytant to me to preserve the rights/choices for all girls/women.
I do agree with you on this. Any child should have the option, legally speaking. I am against this law. I am even against the individual states' parental consent laws.
Where I don't agree is on the ethical issue of all unaccompanied minors having a "good reason" to be unaccompanied in an abortion clinic. I do not think a child that wishes to simply avoid the dissent or disappointment of a parent is a good enough reason when weighed against the importance of the parent's knowledge of that decision. Only when the child's physical safety is in doubt does it become ethical to withhold the information from the parent, IMO.
I do agree with you on this. Any child should have the option, legally speaking. I am against this law. I am even against the individual states' parental consent laws.
Where I don't agree is on the ethical issue of all unaccompanied minors having a "good reason" to be unaccompanied in an abortion clinic. I do not think a child that wishes to simply avoid the dissent or disappointment of a parent is a good enough reason when weighed against the importance of the parent's knowledge of that decision. Only when the child's physical safety is in doubt does it become ethical to withhold the information from the parent, IMO.
again, i understand. however, i do believe it's a 'good reason' b/c i know if *I* were that teen, while yes i'd far prefer my parent's support for whatever decision, i would NOT want them to have the right to stop me from getting an abortion if that is ultimately what my choice would be. which of course i think is the whole crux of the issue here. however, i politely agree to disagree on it.
I do agree with you on this. Any child should have the option, legally speaking. I am against this law. I am even against the individual states' parental consent laws.
Where I don't agree is on the ethical issue of all unaccompanied minors having a "good reason" to be unaccompanied in an abortion clinic. I do not think a child that wishes to simply avoid the dissent or disappointment of a parent is a good enough reason when weighed against the importance of the parent's knowledge of that decision. Only when the child's physical safety is in doubt does it become ethical to withhold the information from the parent, IMO.
But the parental consent laws are a good reason. They are the reason young women are traveling across state lines to begin with. It's not a matter of not wanting to have an unpleasant discussion with mom, it's a matter of mom saying "over my dead body," and then the young woman's choice is gone. If it were only the wish to avoid a confrontation then I'd agree with you ... anyone old enough to make such a decision on their own is certainly old enough to proceed in the face of parental disappointment.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
anyone old enough to make such a decision on their own is certainly old enough to proceed in the face of parental disappointment.
While I may disagree with this idea what really gets me is that we can think people can make such glorious, fully informed choices regarding abortion at 13, 14 or 15 then we tell each other we voted wrong in the last election.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
But the parental consent laws are a good reason. They are the reason young women are traveling across state lines to begin with. It's not a matter of not wanting to have an unpleasant discussion with mom, it's a matter of mom saying "over my dead body," and then the young woman's choice is gone. If it were only the wish to avoid a confrontation then I'd agree with you ... anyone old enough to make such a decision on their own is certainly old enough to proceed in the face of parental disappointment.
I agree with this. I simply disagree that every situation where a child does not inform their parents meets such a standard.
You can talk about it with others and have support from loved ones.
What I'm asking is can someone share the accountability for your actions--to your Self or to your Higher Power? I'm saying women are having to take the ultimate fallout here. And when it comes down to the responsibility, one's boyfriend/husband/family members/friends just simply cannot carry that accountability.
When we as a species have this glitch where as a fallout to our problems we are terminating the potential of our own offspring, to me it shows there is something wrong within our species. Particularly when it is natural for us to do the exact opposite: to want to protect and nurture our offspring. There is such a dramatic difference between accepting the blessing of a pregnancy and feeling there is little option but to terminate it. I'm saying it is a tragedy that circumstances culminate in the latter decision being made. It goes to show the lack of resources and the chaos and trauma within the system as a whole. While I can certainly understand supports and help in place for these women, what I don't understand is why as a society we don't recognise this fallout we contribute to on many levels. I think the reason is that at this point it's easy to demonise the woman as the culprit. And that is a huge part of this being a tragedy--and why I say women are carrying the ultimate burden. Alone. When abortion directly affects 1 in 3 women, that is a huge cost to our species.
And I say this as a woman who has chosen not to abort when faced with such a traumatic situation. I personally paid a huge price for my decision in that the pregnancy I refer to triggered obsessive-compulsive disorder in me that lasted for 15 years. I cannot imagine a hell-on-earth worse than such a fate. By eventually healing the disorder, I found the disorder was just another way of coping with the fallout of the same faulty systems and the lack of resources that caused me to consider abortion. It was the same faulty dysfunctioning systems I was a part of that left it to me to carry the heavy, heavy burden of my choice either way. The burden of the systems fallout was on my shoulders because those around me were out of resources too. Being out of resource, they did not have the slightest idea how to help me carry the system burden that fell to me. Worse yet was when I was stigmatised and demonised for taking my share of the fallout--for becoming a mentally ill person. Had I had an abortion, I would would have been stigmatised in a different way. It amazes me that we don't recognise what we are doing to our own humanity. It seems that at this point, it's so much easier to blame and demonise the women rather than for everyone around the women to take responsibility for their own lacks and contributions to the problem. It's only when we do recognise what our contributions to the problem are, and accept our own accountability that we will find ways to resolve the ugliness we are currently creating as fallout for our actions.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
While I may disagree with this idea what really gets me is that we can think people can make such glorious, fully informed choices regarding abortion at 13, 14 or 15 then we tell each other we voted wrong in the last election.
They are undoubtedly not the best informed decisions! They are often not going to be mature decisions! They will not often be healthy decisions! That's what happens when a 13 year old child must face such an issue! Whether they are unhealthy, immature, uninformed decisions or even worse, they remain the best decisions these girls can obviously fathom for themselves. It seems obvious to me that the person who has the accountability for the consequences of such action must still make the decision. It is a tragedy! No one can be inside that girl's emotional state throughout the rest of her life while she grapples with the consequences of her childhood choice. When one reads through the depressed, suicidal, tormented comments of the women on the site afterabortion.com, one can feel the pain that is there. When one hears the same females mourning the loss of their once potential children, one knows one can be supportive, but one cannot share that experience of deep regretful loss with her.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
No, it's a way to avoid dealing with parenthood. The preganancy is dealt with.
But pregnancy lasts nine months if I'm not mistaken and abortion takes place in the early stages of pregnancy. So you do avoid dealing with the pregnancy if you look at it my way . This arguement is pointless since we are both right depending on our point of view.
Which came first,
the bad idea or me befallen by it?
But the parental consent laws are a good reason. They are the reason young women are traveling across state lines to begin with. It's not a matter of not wanting to have an unpleasant discussion with mom, it's a matter of mom saying "over my dead body," and then the young woman's choice is gone. If it were only the wish to avoid a confrontation then I'd agree with you ... anyone old enough to make such a decision on their own is certainly old enough to proceed in the face of parental disappointment.
Would you say the same for a young woman who wants to get a nose job?
I agree with this. I simply disagree that every situation where a child does not inform their parents meets such a standard.
well of course. i don't think anyone here even remotely insinuated that it is ALWAYS the case. if things were so clearly black and white all the time, would be a hellluva lot easier in making these decisions/choices. however, i rather err on the side that affords the pregnant girl, even a minor, the most options that are of HER choosing. thus i am against the government getting involved, parental consent laws, etc.
btw - for the nose job, sex change thing....completely different. how? b/c one can opt for those after the age of 18 - there's no urgent need or rush for either. a girl who is pregnant needs to make her own decision right NOW...she doesn't have the luxury of time. now you can argue she shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place, should have considered the consequesnces first, etc. we can say that about consenting adults too. point is, people make mistakes, or sometimes people are forced into things they don't want....and choosing to have an abortion and desiring a nose job, not at all in the same ballpark.
well of course. i don't think anyone here even remotely insinuated that it is ALWAYS the case. if things were so clearly black and white all the time, would be a hellluva lot easier in making these decisions/choices.
This post, to which you agreed, implies that:
"I can see that working really well when it's the dad who knocked her up. Or the parent who will 'get mad' and beat her.
In my experience, most minors bring parents. The ones who don't, have a very good reason."
If those two statements are meant to be linked, the latter implies that a "very good reason" equates to the ones defined in the former.
however, i rather err on the side that affords the pregnant girl, even a minor, the most options that are of HER choosing. thus i am against the government getting involved, parental consent laws, etc.
"I can see that working really well when it's the dad who knocked her up. Or the parent who will 'get mad' and beat her.
In my experience, most minors bring parents. The ones who don't, have a very good reason."
If those two statements are meant to be linked, the latter implies that a "very good reason" equates to the ones defined in the former.
Me too.
sure. nonetheless, it is your own personal inference....i still never said ALWAYS. as in anything else....there will always be exceptions. and also too, what i consider a 'very good reason' and what you do, may be very different things. and i merely was agreeing with said post...didn't author it...and yes, i did not get hung up on the semantics of the language used. i am sure even VG would say not ALL 'have a good reason.' merely suggesting most. but hey, if that's all you want to quibble about on the topic, it's all good.
sure. nonetheless, it is your own personal inference....i still never said ALWAYS. as in anything else....there will always be exceptions. and also too, what i consider a 'very good reason' and what you do, may be very different things. and i merely was agreeing with said post...didn't author it...and yes, i did not get hung up on the semantics of the language used. i am sure even VG would say not ALL 'have a good reason.' merely suggesting most. but hey, if that's all you want to quibble about on the topic, it's all good.
Comments
I honestly know someone who if she got pregnant her mother would kill her. I'm not exageratting either. She's constantly drunk and has been admitted to an asylum twice.
I don't think it's congress's place to pass that bill.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
There are a lot of problems (her druggy dad died years ago, for example) and if her mom is gone she ends up with a foster family.
Right now it's a waiting game until she's 18.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
As hard as it is to leave your parents you have to do what's best for yourself.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
she has a WONDERFUL family up in Virginia (we're both in N.C.), but i think she wants to stay here for school and other things for now.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
well the two victory gin mentioned would definitely be biggies. also too, i would think if one has extremely religious parents, thus 100% against abortion and would forbid such, pretty fine reasoning too. all well and good to be religious, but i don't think a pregnant teen should be 'forced' to follow said religious beliefs, and thus denied the right to access of abortion simply b/c their parents disagree. obviously, if they were that religious, they wouldn't be having premarital sex in the first place.
ideally, i would hope if a teen were sadly to get pregnant that they would have a good enough relationship to go and tell their parenst, and get the support they need to make the best decision for themselves, whatever that decision that ultimately would be.
however we do not live in an ideal world, with ideal relationships...etc. obviously, or the very idea of an unwanted pregnancy wouldn't exist period. it's obviously one of those 'grey areas'...and in this specific instance, i believe the pregnant minor's wishes should be followed. yes, obviously they need assistance/guidance, but i do not believe the government should be getting involved, regulating the right or not for one to choose to get assistance, or not, on their own...with or without parental consent.
i look at my own life/history/parents...and i had this very convo with my mother once. thankfully, never in my life have i ever been faced with such a decision, never even had to once consider what i would do if i were ever single and pregnant, but i do believe most girls/women who are sexually active at least think about it. i know i did. that said, as an adult, and long-married...my mother and i had this very convo...if i were young/single/pregnant...would i go to her? i said no.
my mother was, and still is, a VERY religious woman, we never discussed sex, etc....all i ever heard from her at ALL, was abstinence only, i cannot even imagine her be understanding, etc. she has mellowed a LOT as she's aged...but back then? yikes. i most definitely would've enlisted the assistance of my much older sister. my mom was disappointed to hear this of course, but even she admitted she probably would not have been very supportive of such a decision, etc.
there is nothing wrong of course with a parent trying to influence a child, to try and instill their personal values/beliefs on their offspring. but in this instance, something that is going to effect you for the rest of your life, i do believe it should be the pregnant minor's CHOICE if they want such or not, and a parent shouldn't be able to block one's right/access to an aborttion. just my own personal opinion on it. and bottomline, i don't believe the government has any business in getting involved in that.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
And on those I would agree.
I agree. No teen should be forced to follow said religious beliefs. But this is not a good reason not to inform your parents that you're having a medical procedure.
Agreed! But not "having a good enough relationship" again is not a good excuse to not inform them of the choice. It is a good excuse for not leaning on those parents for the emotional issues or reprecussions of the choice, but it is not a good reason to avoid informing them altogether.
Agreed!
See, that's the problem. Parental notification isn't just about "influencing the child". I have no problem with a child who goes to their parent, informs them of the decision to abort, and then stands completely resolute in the face of any parental dissent. But this is not just about influence. This is a medical procedure and a massive life choice. Parents should know about these things in order to be good and understanding parents.
Certainly it is not easy to tell a parent, regardless of persuasion, of this choice and the choices that led to it. But to suggest that every minor that comes into an abortion clinic unaccompanied by a parent has a "good reason" to keep it from their parents is to suggest that the basic avoidance of facing reasonable parents is a "good reason". That, to me, is not right.
All children have an inherent right to privacy within their own control. Meaning that no one, regardless of age, should be forced via the actions of the state to divulge private information. And that's why I don't support this law. But, ethically speaking, I would never consider it wise to sacrifice a parent's appropriate desire to know what is happening in their child's life in order to protect that privacy. Meaning that if given the choice between enabling a child to have a secret abortion or informing the parents that their child intends to abort a life, I will always choose the latter, unless in the rare situation where I feel that the child's physical safety is in doubt.
EDIT: By the way, thank you very much for the detailed and thoughtful response.
sure, i hear ya, understand....but for me, my own personal opinion - especially as a female...i just think differently on it. ideally, what you say should be it...but yes, i think ultimately in this instance, a minor should have that option, medical procedure or not. i don't expect all to agree with me, it's my own personal beliefs on it. glad i don't have that concern for myself, i have no children to worry about their choices in the future...so i am looking at it as an outsider, and as a woman it is important to me to preserve the rights/choices for all girls/women.
it would be the ideal for a teen to inform their parents no matter what, AND still be able to choose abortion if ultimately that is what they desire. problem is, with this law of consent...well then, a parent can block said minor's choice. this isn't denying a child the 'right' for a nosejob...it's forcing them to have a child or not. that alone, for me, is good enough 'reason' for inform/consent NOT to be required. again, just my personal take on it. of course, i fully agree if one is a parent one would absolutely WANT to know what is going on with their children....but i think far too many parents force their beliefs/choices on their children...and if it comes down to it, i rather the pregnant minor mother's wishes be followed.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I do agree with you on this. Any child should have the option, legally speaking. I am against this law. I am even against the individual states' parental consent laws.
Where I don't agree is on the ethical issue of all unaccompanied minors having a "good reason" to be unaccompanied in an abortion clinic. I do not think a child that wishes to simply avoid the dissent or disappointment of a parent is a good enough reason when weighed against the importance of the parent's knowledge of that decision. Only when the child's physical safety is in doubt does it become ethical to withhold the information from the parent, IMO.
What about when it comes down to you and your conscience? Can you share the burden then?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
again, i understand. however, i do believe it's a 'good reason' b/c i know if *I* were that teen, while yes i'd far prefer my parent's support for whatever decision, i would NOT want them to have the right to stop me from getting an abortion if that is ultimately what my choice would be. which of course i think is the whole crux of the issue here. however, i politely agree to disagree on it.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
I agree with this. I simply disagree that every situation where a child does not inform their parents meets such a standard.
What I'm asking is can someone share the accountability for your actions--to your Self or to your Higher Power? I'm saying women are having to take the ultimate fallout here. And when it comes down to the responsibility, one's boyfriend/husband/family members/friends just simply cannot carry that accountability.
When we as a species have this glitch where as a fallout to our problems we are terminating the potential of our own offspring, to me it shows there is something wrong within our species. Particularly when it is natural for us to do the exact opposite: to want to protect and nurture our offspring. There is such a dramatic difference between accepting the blessing of a pregnancy and feeling there is little option but to terminate it. I'm saying it is a tragedy that circumstances culminate in the latter decision being made. It goes to show the lack of resources and the chaos and trauma within the system as a whole. While I can certainly understand supports and help in place for these women, what I don't understand is why as a society we don't recognise this fallout we contribute to on many levels. I think the reason is that at this point it's easy to demonise the woman as the culprit. And that is a huge part of this being a tragedy--and why I say women are carrying the ultimate burden. Alone. When abortion directly affects 1 in 3 women, that is a huge cost to our species.
And I say this as a woman who has chosen not to abort when faced with such a traumatic situation. I personally paid a huge price for my decision in that the pregnancy I refer to triggered obsessive-compulsive disorder in me that lasted for 15 years. I cannot imagine a hell-on-earth worse than such a fate. By eventually healing the disorder, I found the disorder was just another way of coping with the fallout of the same faulty systems and the lack of resources that caused me to consider abortion. It was the same faulty dysfunctioning systems I was a part of that left it to me to carry the heavy, heavy burden of my choice either way. The burden of the systems fallout was on my shoulders because those around me were out of resources too. Being out of resource, they did not have the slightest idea how to help me carry the system burden that fell to me. Worse yet was when I was stigmatised and demonised for taking my share of the fallout--for becoming a mentally ill person. Had I had an abortion, I would would have been stigmatised in a different way. It amazes me that we don't recognise what we are doing to our own humanity. It seems that at this point, it's so much easier to blame and demonise the women rather than for everyone around the women to take responsibility for their own lacks and contributions to the problem. It's only when we do recognise what our contributions to the problem are, and accept our own accountability that we will find ways to resolve the ugliness we are currently creating as fallout for our actions.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
But pregnancy lasts nine months if I'm not mistaken and abortion takes place in the early stages of pregnancy. So you do avoid dealing with the pregnancy if you look at it my way
the bad idea or me befallen by it?
Would you say the same for a young woman who wants to get a nose job?
Or a sex change?
well of course. i don't think anyone here even remotely insinuated that it is ALWAYS the case. if things were so clearly black and white all the time, would be a hellluva lot easier in making these decisions/choices. however, i rather err on the side that affords the pregnant girl, even a minor, the most options that are of HER choosing. thus i am against the government getting involved, parental consent laws, etc.
btw - for the nose job, sex change thing....completely different. how? b/c one can opt for those after the age of 18 - there's no urgent need or rush for either. a girl who is pregnant needs to make her own decision right NOW...she doesn't have the luxury of time. now you can argue she shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place, should have considered the consequesnces first, etc. we can say that about consenting adults too. point is, people make mistakes, or sometimes people are forced into things they don't want....and choosing to have an abortion and desiring a nose job, not at all in the same ballpark.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
This post, to which you agreed, implies that:
"I can see that working really well when it's the dad who knocked her up. Or the parent who will 'get mad' and beat her.
In my experience, most minors bring parents. The ones who don't, have a very good reason."
If those two statements are meant to be linked, the latter implies that a "very good reason" equates to the ones defined in the former.
Me too.
sure. nonetheless, it is your own personal inference....i still never said ALWAYS. as in anything else....there will always be exceptions. and also too, what i consider a 'very good reason' and what you do, may be very different things. and i merely was agreeing with said post...didn't author it...and yes, i did not get hung up on the semantics of the language used. i am sure even VG would say not ALL 'have a good reason.' merely suggesting most. but hey, if that's all you want to quibble about on the topic, it's all good.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Fair enough.