There are plenty of examples around the western world, the US has the most "gun friendly" culture and laws and surprise surprise it has the highest per capita gun related deaths in the developed nations... go figure :rolleyes:
Evasion. Which laws specifically should be enacted here, and what effects to you see those laws having?
"culture" is an interesting phenomenon, and may explain things that laws (or lack thereof) cannot.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Evasion. Which laws specifically should be enacted here, and what effects to you see those laws having?
"culture" is an interesting phenomenon, and may explain things that laws (or lack thereof) cannot.
No evasion just at work and didn't expect to have to come up with your new gun laws and a paper on their effects whilst spinning numerous plates here
Go write a paper on how I should complete the 4 rush jobs I've got on at the same time
But yes it is a mixture of culture and law, nothing operates in isolation...
Astoria Crew
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
So you really think that all of these large incidents wouldn't have happened if guns didn't exist?
I think it would be more difficult.
You don't think they would have found some other way?
They might.
The columbine killers had already made pipe bombs and were actually going to use propane bombs in the massacre but they failed.
There's a reason they failed, because it's not as easy as you make it out to be. Sure you can find info on the internet and buy everything you need. In chemistry we learned how to make xtc and nuclear bombs. That doesn't mean we are able to do so.
People WILL find a way to kill others.
Not so hard, knives, axes, ropes ... but none are as effective as guns.
The fact that if a nut can't get a gun and has to resort to a knife or a bomb that may or may not go off, is the fact that the shocked, innocent people can have a go at the loser and the police will only have to take his beaten and dead body away. Well, at least it would work that way on the ground.
I haven't ran across to many really tough people when they don't have a weapon in their hands. Better yet a gun.
3 pages and no one has yet to mention that this is yet another fucked up, mentally ill child who went off the deep end. There is no law that will ever mandate mental health tests for people to qualify to be free on the streets. We can go 'round and 'round on the gun control issue, but it really has very little to do with this case nor any other. Guns were simply the weapon of choice to fulfill their fucked up fantasies.
You can legislate away all forms of weaponry, you can legislate mandatory iron bubbles to protect each and every one of us in public, but you can't legislate away one's desire to kill. Until that insatiable thirst for death and destruction amongst humans is eliminated, we will ALWAYS deal with atrocities like this.
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
The columbine killers had already made pipe bombs and were actually going to use propane bombs in the massacre but they failed.
thank you for proving my point
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Like i bet no one ever died during the middle ages.
of course they did... they had sharp pointy turnips and sometimes they poured boiling oil over each other, etc, etc, etc.
but as the Middle Ages are probably the most war happy era of modern man... if they had guns they would have killed a fuckload more...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
3 pages and no one has yet to mention that this is yet another fucked up, mentally ill child who went off the deep end. There is no law that will ever mandate mental health tests for people to qualify to be free on the streets. We can go 'round and 'round on the gun control issue, but it really has very little to do with this case nor any other. Guns were simply the weapon of choice to fulfill their fucked up fantasies.
You can legislate away all forms of weaponry, you can legislate mandatory iron bubbles to protect each and every one of us in public, but you can't legislate away one's desire to kill. Until that insatiable thirst for death and destruction amongst humans is eliminated, we will ALWAYS deal with atrocities like this.
Do you know these details about the individual?
Nobody is saying wrap everyone in cotton wool, that is another over dramaticism of the argument. You can still do an awful lot to take away / restrict access to the most effective one on one killing machine - the gun.
Astoria Crew
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
Call me crazy but i think making a homemade pipe bomb might just be a wee bit easier to make than a nuclear bomb. Correct me if i'm wrong.
You are absolutely right.
The gun the the perfect tool for a person gone mad. Instant killing. With a pipe bombs you first need to get the info on how to make one, then go out and buy all the things and make it. Then you have one pipe bomb and with a bit of luck you will be able to kill two guys.
The gun the the perfect tool for a person gone mad. Instant killing. With a pipe bombs you first need to get the info on how to make one, then go out and buy all the things and make it. Then you have one pipe bomb and with a bit of luck you will be able to kill two guys.
pipe bombs are easy. truth be known; guns have saved more lives than taken. excluding wars. the image people have of the 1800's is distorted by glorified history accounts that never happened and by hollywood. drunk drivers kill thousands more than guns.
the incident is unfortunate and saddening but a part of life. when compared to incidents like the wtc and oklahoma and plane bombings; we see the problem is people.
truth be known; guns have saved more lives than taken. excluding wars.
thats completely unquantifiable.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
3 pages and no one has yet to mention that this is yet another fucked up, mentally ill child who went off the deep end. There is no law that will ever mandate mental health tests for people to qualify to be free on the streets. We can go 'round and 'round on the gun control issue, but it really has very little to do with this case nor any other. Guns were simply the weapon of choice to fulfill their fucked up fantasies.
You can legislate away all forms of weaponry, you can legislate mandatory iron bubbles to protect each and every one of us in public, but you can't legislate away one's desire to kill. Until that insatiable thirst for death and destruction amongst humans is eliminated, we will ALWAYS deal with atrocities like this.
and how dyou propose we eliminate that insatiable thirst?
The gun the the perfect tool for a person gone mad. Instant killing. With a pipe bombs you first need to get the info on how to make one, then go out and buy all the things and make it. Then you have one pipe bomb and with a bit of luck you will be able to kill two guys.
and most of these idiots will probly only end up blowing off their own hands in the process.
and how dyou propose we eliminate that insatiable thirst?
I don't think we can, Soulsinging. That's why I get so frustrated by these threads, we're ignoring the real issue at hand. It's in the nature of some humans to want to kill, why are we debating the means by which they accomplish their goals?
Guns are most definitely the easiest means for individuals to carry out these acts, but I'm far from convinced that outlawing guns will make the sickest amongst us turn into pink teddy bears.
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
Is this a rhetorical question? Some kid walked into a mall and took human lives at random. Do you think he's in tip-top mental shape?
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
everytime there is one of these tragedies you get both sides spewing there rethoric about who's right and wrong, but the fact of the matter is weapons in the hands of unstable humans can be very dangerous, i for one wan't guns far away from me and my family that is my choice. if i lived on a farm or in the mountains then i would have them specially for hunting .......
18 yrs old. I guess he is technically a "man", but I'd prefer to call him a dumbass kid.
"Worse than traitors in arms are the men who pretend loyalty to the flag, feast and fatten on the misfortunes of the nation while patriotic blood is crimsoning the plains." -- Abraham Lincoln
everytime there is one of these tragedies you get both sides spewing there rethoric about who's right and wrong, but the fact of the matter is weapons in the hands of unstable humans can be very dangerous, i for one wan't guns far away from me and my family that is my choice. if i lived on a farm or in the mountains then i would have them specially for hunting .......
i agree. but whenever the word GUN appears in the news this board jumps all over it. more people are stabbed and we never see a word about it. there was an incident a couple years back where someone held a hostage with a pencil to her neck. i didn't see a single thread about it.
of course people would still kill each other and of course they would use knives.... but as Soulsinging said... if someone stabbed me with a knife then at least i could fight that person off.. if he shot me in the face with a gun i doubt i would be able to throw a punch.. i could maybe throw some brains at him, but i'm not sure.
No man, I vote for swords instead. Instead of the right to bear arms we could have the right to bear SWORDS!! *crack*slash*swoosh*
Fair enough. I did not know it only took that little time once you got the info and supplies.
I'm sorry but reading up on it, I must say it doesn't seem to reliable. I'll try and find the videos somewhere.
you can put a bunch of BBs in the pipe and make it a mass killing weapon. i'm not picking on you. just trying to show that there are other ways if a person wants to kill a lot of people. the fbi has an entire room dedicated to homemade guns. you can't remove the weapon unless you remove the technology from everyones mind.
I don't think we can, Soulsinging. That's why I get so frustrated by these threads, we're ignoring the real issue at hand. It's in the nature of some humans to want to kill, why are we debating the means by which they accomplish their goals?
Guns are most definitely the easiest means for individuals to carry out these acts, but I'm far from convinced that outlawing guns will make the sickest amongst us turn into pink teddy bears.
it wont. i dont want guns outlawed. but i do think there's merit in the argument that making it a little less easy to get a gun might reduce fatalities due to guns. the sick bastards will still be sick, but they can't take as many people down with them wielding a knife.
i agree. but whenever the word GUN appears in the news this board jumps all over it. more people are stabbed and we never see a word about it. there was an incident a couple years back where someone held a hostage with a pencil to her neck. i didn't see a single thread about it.
how many of those people die as opposed to shooting victims?
you can put a bunch of BBs in the pipe and make it a mass killing weapon. i'm not picking on you. just trying to show that there are other ways if a person wants to kill a lot of people. the fbi has an entire room dedicated to homemade guns. you can't remove the weapon unless you remove the technology from everyones mind.
but these take more effort and intelligence and creativity than to walk into walmart and grab a few handguns and walk straight to school.
Comments
Evasion. Which laws specifically should be enacted here, and what effects to you see those laws having?
"culture" is an interesting phenomenon, and may explain things that laws (or lack thereof) cannot.
No evasion just at work and didn't expect to have to come up with your new gun laws and a paper on their effects whilst spinning numerous plates here
Go write a paper on how I should complete the 4 rush jobs I've got on at the same time
But yes it is a mixture of culture and law, nothing operates in isolation...
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
I think it would be more difficult.
They might.
There's a reason they failed, because it's not as easy as you make it out to be. Sure you can find info on the internet and buy everything you need. In chemistry we learned how to make xtc and nuclear bombs. That doesn't mean we are able to do so.
Not so hard, knives, axes, ropes ... but none are as effective as guns.
naděje umírá poslední
I haven't ran across to many really tough people when they don't have a weapon in their hands. Better yet a gun.
"She fell funny"
"Klaus Daimler, 40, engineer, calm, collected, German"
You can legislate away all forms of weaponry, you can legislate mandatory iron bubbles to protect each and every one of us in public, but you can't legislate away one's desire to kill. Until that insatiable thirst for death and destruction amongst humans is eliminated, we will ALWAYS deal with atrocities like this.
thank you for proving my point
of course they did... they had sharp pointy turnips and sometimes they poured boiling oil over each other, etc, etc, etc.
but as the Middle Ages are probably the most war happy era of modern man... if they had guns they would have killed a fuckload more...
Do you know these details about the individual?
Nobody is saying wrap everyone in cotton wool, that is another over dramaticism of the argument. You can still do an awful lot to take away / restrict access to the most effective one on one killing machine - the gun.
Troubled souls unite, we got ourselves tonight...
Astoria, Dublin, Reading 06
Katowice, Wembley 07
SBE, Manchester, O2 09
Hyde Park 10
Manchester 1&2 12
This is just g'bye for now...
You are absolutely right.
The gun the the perfect tool for a person gone mad. Instant killing. With a pipe bombs you first need to get the info on how to make one, then go out and buy all the things and make it. Then you have one pipe bomb and with a bit of luck you will be able to kill two guys.
naděje umírá poslední
pipe bombs are easy. truth be known; guns have saved more lives than taken. excluding wars. the image people have of the 1800's is distorted by glorified history accounts that never happened and by hollywood. drunk drivers kill thousands more than guns.
the incident is unfortunate and saddening but a part of life. when compared to incidents like the wtc and oklahoma and plane bombings; we see the problem is people.
thats completely unquantifiable.
and how dyou propose we eliminate that insatiable thirst?
and most of these idiots will probly only end up blowing off their own hands in the process.
But they take a while to make. Especially if you're a young kid who lives with his parents.
Is this a guess, a belief or a fact?
Why?
naděje umírá poslední
I don't think we can, Soulsinging. That's why I get so frustrated by these threads, we're ignoring the real issue at hand. It's in the nature of some humans to want to kill, why are we debating the means by which they accomplish their goals?
Guns are most definitely the easiest means for individuals to carry out these acts, but I'm far from convinced that outlawing guns will make the sickest amongst us turn into pink teddy bears.
Is this a rhetorical question? Some kid walked into a mall and took human lives at random. Do you think he's in tip-top mental shape?
Man. The shooter was a man.
But I agree with you.
naděje umírá poslední
18 yrs old. I guess he is technically a "man", but I'd prefer to call him a dumbass kid.
as a young kid i made 3 to 4 pipe bombs in an hour. we used them to remove tree stumps. when PVC came along the time was cut to 5 minutes each.
fact. i got that from a program on the history channel but don't have time to find a link.
On your own or with a bunch of friends, because you use 'we' too. But guns are more efficient and effective if you want to kill.
Name of the programme?
edit: Just buying all the things needed to make a pipe bomb would take longer than half an hour in my opinion.
naděje umírá poslední
i agree. but whenever the word GUN appears in the news this board jumps all over it. more people are stabbed and we never see a word about it. there was an incident a couple years back where someone held a hostage with a pencil to her neck. i didn't see a single thread about it.
myself. the "we" came in when my cousin and i removed the stumps.
wild west tech i believe.
Fair enough. I did not know it only took that little time once you got the info and supplies.
I'm sorry but reading up on it, I must say it doesn't seem to reliable. I'll try and find the videos somewhere.
naděje umírá poslední
No man, I vote for swords instead. Instead of the right to bear arms we could have the right to bear SWORDS!! *crack*slash*swoosh*
Or would that be considered an "arm" as well?
you can put a bunch of BBs in the pipe and make it a mass killing weapon. i'm not picking on you. just trying to show that there are other ways if a person wants to kill a lot of people. the fbi has an entire room dedicated to homemade guns. you can't remove the weapon unless you remove the technology from everyones mind.
it wont. i dont want guns outlawed. but i do think there's merit in the argument that making it a little less easy to get a gun might reduce fatalities due to guns. the sick bastards will still be sick, but they can't take as many people down with them wielding a knife.
how many of those people die as opposed to shooting victims?
but these take more effort and intelligence and creativity than to walk into walmart and grab a few handguns and walk straight to school.